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1998-03-30
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #283
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Tuesday, March 31 1998 Volume 02 : Number 283
In this issue:
-
Re: Fire label query
mike osborne
Naked City
Re: mike osborne
Re[2]: Naked City
Re[2]: mike osborne
Naked City
Where to get the Bible Launcher CD
Re: Naked City
FS: Frank Wright Trio CD (ESP 1023) - sealed
Re: Re[2]: mike osborne
Re: Naked City/Sinatra/Webern
Re: Re[2]: Naked City
Re: Re[2]: mike osborne
Re: mike osborne
Re: Re[2]: mike osborne
Re: Re[2]: Naked City
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 16:56:39 +1000 (EST)
From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Fire label query
Does anything know anything about an Icelandic label called Fire?
Apparently they were planning to release some 10" records by Jim O'Rourke,
and Stock, Hausen and Walkman.
Any info, greatly appreciated...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:47:25 -0500
From: ROLAND JOST <ROLAND_JOST@compuserve.com>
Subject: mike osborne
i hope this is not too off-topic here! does anyone know what mike osborne=
is doing these days? i heard he's having some health problems (alcohol
related). does he play at all? live? any new records? i'd appreciate some=
info. if you think this doesn't belong here, please e-mail me privately.
thanks.
cheers
roland
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 98 15:07:39 -0300
From: hulinare@bemberg.com.ar
Subject: Naked City
I think that if anyone sounds critical of the listeners, nothing would
happen!. Personally, I wouldn't be bothered.
Not only this smells as a cinical side, but it is!
What is the difference between a Naked City DEVOTED FAN fan and another
group like Nirvana, for example?
Dogmatism goes nowhere.
Hugo, from Argentina
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 10:59:19 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: mike osborne
On Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:47:25 -0500 ROLAND JOST wrote:
>
> i hope this is not too off-topic here! does anyone know what mike osborne
> is doing these days? i heard he's having some health problems (alcohol
Wow! Mike Osborne has been out of the music business for almost 20 years!
I never heard anything about alcohol, but yes, he has been seriously ill and
stopped all music activities. Once in a while there is a rumour of him doing
a come back but nothing had happened yet.
This is really sad because he was such a treat and a warm alto player.
> related). does he play at all? live? any new records? i'd appreciate some
> info. if you think this doesn't belong here, please e-mail me privately.
> thanks.
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:23:06 UT
From: peter_risser@cinfin.com
Subject: Re[2]: Naked City
I definitely think that's part of it. Also, Torture Garden came out on Shimmy,
I think AFTER Naked City came out on Elektra. So, my guess is, Naked City cut
all these little baby thrash tracks, then included a few on that first album.
Then, maybe he wanted to release the full album as a suite of those things.
Then, I imagine, after people bitched that the other bits of Torture Garden
weren't avbailable on CD, he decided to put the rest on a disc where people
could listen to them. (Also, Torture Garden probably went promptly out of
print, like most other Shimmy releases.) Anyway, the final installment was the
re-release of the complete Torture Garden in the Black Box set.
And yeah, all the tunes are from the original Torture Garden performance.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 98 14:00:12 -0500
From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu
Subject: Re[2]: mike osborne
I'd been wondering about this also after having recently listened to
that old SOS album on Ogun. Much of it holds up pretty well, though
some drifts into Roger Powell-y territory (anyone here remember
'Cosmic Furnace' from around 1972?) Also wondered about the
whereabouts/doings of Alan Skidmore.
Any recommendations for other Osborne work?
Brian Olewnick
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: mike osborne
Author: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> at SMTP-for-MSSM
Date: 3/31/98 10:59 AM
On Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:47:25 -0500 ROLAND JOST wrote:
>
> i hope this is not too off-topic here! does anyone know what mike osborne
> is doing these days? i heard he's having some health problems (alcohol
Wow! Mike Osborne has been out of the music business for almost 20 years!
I never heard anything about alcohol, but yes, he has been seriously ill and
stopped all music activities. Once in a while there is a rumour of him doing
a come back but nothing had happened yet.
This is really sad because he was such a treat and a warm alto player.
> related). does he play at all? live? any new records? i'd appreciate some
> info. if you think this doesn't belong here, please e-mail me privately.
> thanks.
Patrice.
- -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:17:26 -0700
From: Jason Tors <jtors@usinteractive.com>
Subject: Naked City
I just borrowed all of the Naked City recording from a work-mate. I have to
say that the one that appeals to me the most is Heretic. I guess it is a
soundtrack to a movie about spanking or soft core S&M. I think that the
collaboration between all players and especially the duet with Eye and
Zorn. I never liked his "voice" stuff till I heard this album, is really is
amazing especially when he gets super gutteral. Heretic seems to hold
together more effectively than the other albums which are contrast
compositions, this by no means is a critisism, the man obviously knows what
he is doing.
Absinthe is my cat's least favorite album. Her ears nearly spin off her
head, I guess she picks up on some more frequencies than I do. I was
playing Absinthe relatively loud last night as I was writing, she ran from
one end of the apartment to the other crashing into two walls in the
process. I put on some masada instead, she needs a little time to get
adjusted to some of Zorn's audio collages.
JT
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 14:59:55 +0200
From: Ulrich Gernert <Ulrich.Gernert@TU-Berlin.de>
Subject: Where to get the Bible Launcher CD
Does anyone know, where I can bye Zorns "Bible Launcher" CD,
published on Radical House Records?
A distributor not so far away from Berlin, Germany.
Thanks
Ulrich Gernert
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:02:40 -0500
From: Glenn Lea <glenn_lea@avid.com>
Subject: Re: Naked City
peter_risser@cinfin.com wrote:
>
> About Black Box:
>
> I remember Torture Garden fitting easily onto one side of a 90 minute tape (ie:
> under 45 minutes). I also thought LengTche was under 30 minutes. Couldn't he
> have pressed them both to the same disc? Although, 20 bucks for two short discs
> isn't too bad, I guess. Just wondering.
Torture Garden runs about 20-25 minutes. Sure, they would've fit on one CD.
But then
he couldn't have called it Black Box.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 05:18:00 +0000
From: Yin Pin <yinpin@pop6.jaring.my>
Subject: FS: Frank Wright Trio CD (ESP 1023) - sealed
pardon the spam,
i have the above release still in its plastic
wrap for sale or trade.
- -pin
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:14:24 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: mike osborne
On Tue, 31 Mar 98 14:00:12 -0500 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote:
>
>
> I'd been wondering about this also after having recently listened to
> that old SOS album on Ogun. Much of it holds up pretty well, though
> some drifts into Roger Powell-y territory (anyone here remember
> 'Cosmic Furnace' from around 1972?) Also wondered about the
> whereabouts/doings of Alan Skidmore.
>
> Any recommendations for other Osborne work?
Easy question to answer, two of his best records have recently reissued:
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*** - OUTBACK: Mike Osborne
1/ So It Is (Mike Osborne)
2/ Outback (Mike Osborne)
Mike Osborne: alto; Harry Beckett: trumpet; Louis Moholo: drums; Harry
Miller: bass; Chris McGregor: piano.
1994 - Future Music Records (UK), FMR CD07-031994 (CD)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*** - SHAPES: Mike Osborne
1/ Shapes (part 1 + part 2) (Osborne) 19:40
2/ Straight Jack (Osborne) 7:05
3/ Double It (Osborne) 14:00
Recorded in February 1972 at Pye Studios
John Surman: soprano, baritone saxophone; Mike Osborne: alto; Alan Skidmore:
tenor; Harry Miller: double bass; Earl Freeman: double bass; Louis Moholo:
drums.
1994 - Future Music (UK), FMR CD10 - 021995 (CD)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrice (still waiting for the reissue of his favorite -- MARCEL'S
MUSE)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 16:34:00 -0500 (EST)
From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu>
Subject: Re: Naked City/Sinatra/Webern
Having only heard this song once its hard for me to get too specific, but
when I was listening to it, it seemed to be kind of loungy serial hybrid,
or at least it reminded me of both of those folks. Wh else is listed
there, is it Morton Feldman? I've thought about buying the album but I'll
probably get Bar Kokhba or Circle Maker instead.
Also, one song that I think is repaeted in 4 cases is NY Flat Top box, I
think this one is on Grand Guignol unlike the sandwiched songs from the
First Naked City.
As for prices, you can get the Shimmy Disc version (down here) for 11.99,
Black Box
for 16.99, Grand Guignol usually 17.99 or 18.99, and the Naked City album
pops up used pretty often, being a point of entry album, and that's how I
got it. So I guess you have options.
torture garden is only 26 minutes, but considering the work
that had to have gone into it that is fairly reasonable. Plus I usually
feel sufficiently pummeled and steamrolled after listening to it, so I
don't know that any thing else is needed time-wise.
Opinions on Bar Kokhba vs. Circle Maker?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:39:56 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Naked City
On Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:23:06 UT peter_risser@cinfin.com wrote:
>
> I definitely think that's part of it. Also, Torture Garden came out on Shimmy,
> I think AFTER Naked City came out on Elektra. So, my guess is, Naked City cut
> all these little baby thrash tracks, then included a few on that first album.
> Then, maybe he wanted to release the full album as a suite of those things.
> Then, I imagine, after people bitched that the other bits of Torture Garden
> weren't avbailable on CD, he decided to put the rest on a disc where people
> could listen to them. (Also, Torture Garden probably went promptly out of
> print, like most other Shimmy releases.) Anyway, the final installment was the
> re-release of the complete Torture Garden in the Black Box set.
Just a little precision that I think has not been mentioned.
Nonesuch refused to put out the material of TORTURE GARDEN on their label.
Because they refused to put out the music, they could not really prevent Zorn
from getting it released somewhere else. It seems that they found an agree-
ment: "you can put it in the US, but not on CD". This explains why Shimmy only
put out vinyl/tape pressings of the record.
Later on (1991), Toy's Factory released it on CD, which was OK with Nonesuch.
Then the contract between Zorn and Nonesuch broke (around 1993) and Shimmy
reissued a CD version of TORTURE GARDEN.
More: late 1994, Zorn got in trouble with the CAAAV (Committee Against Anti-
Asian Violence). Two of his records (TORTURE GARDEN and LENG TCH'E) were
accused of giving a bad image of Asian people. Under pressure from this
group, Zorn decided to remove these records from the stores. He asked to Shimmy
to stop selling it. This is at that time that he came up with the idea of
releasing them in a PC design :-).
Now, that does not explain why Shimmy made the record available again in
October 96 (when the BLACK BOX was already announced)...
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 16:39:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: mike osborne
On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
> Easy question to answer, two of his best records have recently reissued:
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *** - OUTBACK: Mike Osborne
>
> 1/ So It Is (Mike Osborne)
> 2/ Outback (Mike Osborne)
>
> Mike Osborne: alto; Harry Beckett: trumpet; Louis Moholo: drums; Harry
> Miller: bass; Chris McGregor: piano.
>
> 1994 - Future Music Records (UK), FMR CD07-031994 (CD)
Patrice: What is the real release date on this. Not 1994, surely. And how
long are the tracks?
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *** - SHAPES: Mike Osborne
>
> 1/ Shapes (part 1 + part 2) (Osborne) 19:40
> 2/ Straight Jack (Osborne) 7:05
> 3/ Double It (Osborne) 14:00
>
> Recorded in February 1972 at Pye Studios
>
> John Surman: soprano, baritone saxophone; Mike Osborne: alto; Alan Skidmore:
> tenor; Harry Miller: double bass; Earl Freeman: double bass; Louis Moholo:
> drums.
>
> 1994 - Future Music (UK), FMR CD10 - 021995 (CD)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Now this is interesting, especially with the participation of Earl
Freeman, another American avant gardist of the second wave who played
with Noah Howard and Archie Shepp. If I'm not mistaken it was William
Parker who wrote a tune honoring him, called "Goggles".
All around us the second generation new thing players are passing on --
most recently Denis Charles and Arthur Jones. Considering that their
explorations and non-conformity influenced Zorn, maybe we could spend
more time discussing their achievements here.
Ken Waxman
cj649@torfree.net
> Patrice (still waiting for the reissue of his favorite -- MARCEL'S
> MUSE)
>
> -
>
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 16:22:30 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca>
Subject: Re: mike osborne
From what I've gathered over the years, I think the problems were that of
a worsening mental condition.
Some have fought themselves back from the brink. Tom Harrell, for
instance, is a acknowledged schizophrenic who keeps his "mania" under
control with medication.
So maybe there's hope for Mike
Ken Waxman
cj649@torfree.net
On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
> On Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:47:25 -0500 ROLAND JOST wrote:
> >
> > i hope this is not too off-topic here! does anyone know what mike osborne
> > is doing these days? i heard he's having some health problems (alcohol
>
> Wow! Mike Osborne has been out of the music business for almost 20 years!
>
> I never heard anything about alcohol, but yes, he has been seriously ill and
> stopped all music activities. Once in a while there is a rumour of him doing
> a come back but nothing had happened yet.
>
> This is really sad because he was such a treat and a warm alto player.
>
> > related). does he play at all? live? any new records? i'd appreciate some
> > info. if you think this doesn't belong here, please e-mail me privately.
> > thanks.
>
> Patrice.
>
> -
>
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:46:57 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: mike osborne
On Tue, 31 Mar 1998 16:39:07 -0500 (EST) Ken Waxman wrote:
>
> On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Easy question to answer, two of his best records have recently reissued:
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > *** - OUTBACK: Mike Osborne
> >
> > 1/ So It Is (Mike Osborne)
> > 2/ Outback (Mike Osborne)
> >
> > Mike Osborne: alto; Harry Beckett: trumpet; Louis Moholo: drums; Harry
> > Miller: bass; Chris McGregor: piano.
> >
> > 1994 - Future Music Records (UK), FMR CD07-031994 (CD)
>
>
> Patrice: What is the real release date on this. Not 1994, surely. And how
> long are the tracks?
1994 for the reissue. Original? I guess early '70s. This record used (and still)
to be of collector status (always subject to tough bargain on the Mole Jazz
auction list!).
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > *** - SHAPES: Mike Osborne
> >
> > 1/ Shapes (part 1 + part 2) (Osborne) 19:40
> > 2/ Straight Jack (Osborne) 7:05
> > 3/ Double It (Osborne) 14:00
> >
> > Recorded in February 1972 at Pye Studios
> >
> > John Surman: soprano, baritone saxophone; Mike Osborne: alto; Alan Skidmore:
> > tenor; Harry Miller: double bass; Earl Freeman: double bass; Louis Moholo:
> > drums.
> >
> > 1994 - Future Music (UK), FMR CD10 - 021995 (CD)
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> Now this is interesting, especially with the participation of Earl
> Freeman, another American avant gardist of the second wave who played
> with Noah Howard and Archie Shepp. If I'm not mistaken it was William
> Parker who wrote a tune honoring him, called "Goggles".
>
> All around us the second generation new thing players are passing on --
> most recently Denis Charles and Arthur Jones. Considering that their
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Arthur Jones? When? I never heard about his death.
> explorations and non-conformity influenced Zorn, maybe we could spend
> more time discussing their achievements here.
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:49:10 -0800 (PST)
From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Naked City
On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
> Now, that does not explain why Shimmy made the record available again in
> October 96 (when the BLACK BOX was already announced)...
...or why Shimmy re-issued CDs
of Ruins' "Stonehenge" (with that
horrible psychedelic color scheme)
and "Burning Stone" just after
Magaibutsu released their own
remastered versions?
there is no understanding Krammer.
hasta.
Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE.
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #283
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