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v02.n284
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1998-03-31
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #284
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Wednesday, April 1 1998 Volume 02 : Number 284
In this issue:
-
Re: Re[2]: Naked City
Re: Re[2]: Naked City
re: Turkish music
Re: Naked City/Sinatra/Webern
Re: Dennis Charles and Arthur Jones
Re: Dennis Charles and Arthur Jones
Re: Gone, Just Like a Train
Re: 20 essential records
filmworks viii
Re: 20 essential records
Re: Dennis Charles and Arthur Jones
20
Re: Fire label query
New stuff in question
Re: Peter Thomas
masada on sale
20
Re: New stuff in question
stockhausen
Re: New stuff in question
Torture Garden Mystery
Re: 20 essential records
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 14:15:21 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Naked City
On Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:49:10 -0800 (PST) SUGAR in their vitamins? wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
> > Now, that does not explain why Shimmy made the record available again in
> > October 96 (when the BLACK BOX was already announced)...
>
> ...or why Shimmy re-issued CDs
> of Ruins' "Stonehenge" (with that
> horrible psychedelic color scheme)
> and "Burning Stone" just after
> Magaibutsu released their own
> remastered versions?
>
> there is no understanding Krammer.
But now that Shimmy is owned by KF, everything should be under control,
shouldn't they ? :-).
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 14:34:05 -0800 (PST)
From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Naked City
On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
> But now that Shimmy is owned by KF, everything should be under control,
> shouldn't they ? :-).
will KF pay all the artists Krammer
never did?
hasta.
Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 23:50:22 GMT
From: al.t@mtnhdw.com (Al T)
Subject: re: Turkish music
Just to dovetail w/ other topics:
Talip Ozkan - The Dark Fire - produced by Bill Laswell & Nicky
Skopelitis.
Good stuff - no oud though - saz, precussion, voice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:29:08 +1000
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: Re: Naked City/Sinatra/Webern
> Also, one song that I think is repaeted in 4 cases is NY Flat Top box, I
> think this one is on Grand Guignol unlike the sandwiched songs from the
> First Naked City.
Well it's on Naked City, but what was your point?
By the way, why does everyone keep saying the song are repeated 4 times?
The songs are only on two albums.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 20:04:27 -0500 (EST)
From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: Dennis Charles and Arthur Jones
On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, Ken Waxman wrote:
> All around us the second generation new thing players are passing on --
> most recently Denis Charles
I hadn't heard this. What a wonderful, underappreciated drummer.
> and Arthur Jones. Considering that their
> explorations and non-conformity influenced Zorn, maybe we could spend
> more time discussing their achievements here.
I'm sure it would be very educational for many of us. For example, I'm
ashamed to admit I don't know who Arthur Jones is. Could someone
enlighten me?
Chris Hamilton
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 20:36:04 -0500
From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Dennis Charles and Arthur Jones
On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, Ken Waxman wrote:
> All around us the second generation new thing players are passing on --
> most recently Denis Charles
> and Arthur Jones. Considering that their
> explorations and non-conformity influenced Zorn, maybe we could spend
> more time discussing their achievements here.
I hadn't heard that Dennis passed, how sad. His long standing
partnership with bassist Wilbur Morris constituted one of my favorite
rhythm sections. Anyone who is so inclined should check out their work
on Billy Bang's early 80's LP's on Soul Note.
Rich
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 20:32:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: Gone, Just Like a Train
On Mon, 30 Mar 1998, Jamie F Graves wrote:
> All in all, its a great album, but I'm a little dissapointed in Bill.
> Excellent playing from all three (Viktor Kraus and Jim Keltner are
> phenomenal) but it doesn't seem all that new for Bill. Any other thoughts
> on this disc?
Like you, I was at first disappointed with this one. I like it better
every time I listen to it, but I've had trouble caring enough about it to
drag it out much. It's masterfully subtle music, but I'd have liked more
superficial dazzle. (I'm reminded of my reaction to James Joyce's work,
which I also find very rewarding but still not worth the effort. Of
course, the CD may continue to grow on me. And all of this probably says
more about me than about the record.)
That being said, I thought this was a pretty gutsy move for Frisell.
It seems like an attempt to cut away all the tricksy effects and
artificial concepts his audience (including me) love, and get down to just
some serious playing. It leaves him very exposed.
Chris Hamilton
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 19:22:43 -0700 (MST)
From: Corey Marc Fogel <mecorey@imap3.asu.edu>
Subject: Re: 20 essential records
On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, BJOERN wrote:
> 1. PLEASE ANSWER PRIVATELY!!!! i am sure several people would be pissed
> if you send the answers to the list THANX
why privately? maybe you should ask the list first, since the most common
topic is everyone's opinions of different albums. I'm sure more than
half the people, including myself, are somewhat interested in knowing what
others would place in a category such as "20 essential records"....or
whatever; and had you not prefaced the question with that "!!!!!" request,
I'm sure no one would have said "let's stop this thread immediately!"
so...I wanna know. everyone tell me.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 19:39:34 -0800
From: Rob DeNunzio <zorn@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
Subject: filmworks viii
I just picked this one up and I gotta say, I'm totally enthralled by the
contrasts of the two projects documented on it. Has anyone out there got
any thoughts on this one?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:09:10 +1000 (EST)
From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: 20 essential records
On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, Corey Marc Fogel wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, BJOERN wrote:
>
> > 1. PLEASE ANSWER PRIVATELY!!!! i am sure several people would be pissed
> > if you send the answers to the list THANX
>
> why privately? maybe you should ask the list first, since the most common
> topic is everyone's opinions of different albums. I'm sure more than
> half the people, including myself, are somewhat interested in knowing what
> others would place in a category such as "20 essential records"....or
> whatever; and had you not prefaced the question with that "!!!!!" request,
> I'm sure no one would have said "let's stop this thread immediately!"
>
> so...I wanna know. everyone tell me.
>
I'd be interested myself. I imagine it'd be some kinda trial for most
people to have that few. For my part; some of my favourite records are
available on CD, but I prefer them on vinyl because
1) it affords greater enjoyment of the cover graphics
2) just out of, err: willful perversity ;-)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 10:14:35 +0000
From: "Glenn A" <gastarit@comm.net>
Subject: Re: Dennis Charles and Arthur Jones
> Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 20:04:27 -0500 (EST)
> From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu>
> Cc: zorn-list@xmission.com
> Subject: Re: Dennis Charles and Arthur Jones
>
>
>
>
> > All around us the second generation new thing players are passing on --
> > most recently Denis Charles
>
> I hadn't heard this. What a wonderful, underappreciated drummer.
>
> >Is this the same Denis Charles who played with Steve Lacy ? I'm thinking of that Hat Art release of improvised Monk tunes
along with trombonist Rosewell Rudd...
glenn
>
> -
>
>
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 20:01:21 -0800
From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us>
Subject: 20
TROUT MASK REPLICA
ELECTRIC LADYLAND
EINSTEIN ON THE BEACH
BINAURALITY
THE MARZ COMBO
NAKED CITY
LARKS TONGUES IN ASPIC
I'M YOUR MAN
PANGAEA
BLUE NOTE DON CHERRY
LA LEGENDE D'EER
DELUSION OF THE FURY
INDETERMINACY
QUARTET DORTMUND
MINGUS AT ANTIBES
CHAOS TOTALE
URSONATE
SUNRISE IN DIFFERENT DIMENSIONS TESTAMENT
THE WAY
MONSTER
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 23:27:34 -0500
From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey)
Subject: Re: Fire label query
James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> wrote:
>Does anything know anything about an Icelandic label called Fire?
The label is called Fire Inc., and I don't know much. They're new.
>Apparently they were planning to release some 10" records by
>Jim O'Rourke, nd Stock, Hausen and Walkman.
The O'Rourke record has been out since Feb. or so ... It's called
"Please Note Our Failure" and it's a plunderphonics sorta thing.
Kim's Underground (Bleeker/La Guardia) in NYC had copies when I was
there (I s'pose that doesn't help you in Australia ...), and you can
order it from Bent Crayon (www.bentcrayon.com), among other places.
Not sure about the SH & W record ...
- -Patrick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 23:34:19 -0600
From: Paul Chavez <pmchavez@earthlink.net>
Subject: New stuff in question
Hi out there.
First, thanks for the info on the movie "Clean, Shaven". That was the
movie I was referring to! At least I know I can rent it on video and
dub the audio from there.
I was going over some new discs to buy and was curious to get feedback
on the following titles:
Field Recordings in Ghana - ? Is this more new age crap or authentic
field work?
Eyvind Kang - ? What in the world is this like?
Conrad Schnitzler - ? Who is this and what are his recent recordings
like?
That's all. Hope someone knows about these releases/people.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 08:37:27 +0200
From: flamerik@best.ms.philips.com
Subject: Re: Peter Thomas
> I just bought the new Pulp single "This is Hardcore," and there is a sample
> of Thomas's "Bolero on the Moon Rocks" on it. Any comments on the Bolero
> record? The sample sounds great.
That's track number six from the "Raumpatrouille" soundtrack - music scored for
a Bavarian sci-fi TV series about the space ship Orion that actually predates
Star Trek. In my opinion, it categorizes under "best film music ever recorded".
There's a CD re-issue out, with three extra tracks, but I was fortunate to
find the original record from 1966 about a year ago. I guess it'll be hard to
get now that Peter Thomas compilations are coming out left and right.
Mr. Bungle used to play a track of this album live, "Love In Space" (which is
essentially a piece for saxophone and bass, with blasts of percussive noise
inserted).
Frankco.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:05:15 +0200 (WET)
From: Vadim Marmer <msvadi@olive.mscc.huji.ac.il>
Subject: masada on sale
CD Universe has all "Masada" on sale for $15.97. is it
considered to be a good price? if i don`t have any of "masada", except the
one that was released on "jazz door", and i can buy only 2-3 CDs which one
should i pick up?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:16:29 +0200 (MESZ)
From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de>
Subject: 20
ok some of you guys wanted it that way:
oh yes and sorry these are 23!
BURT BACHARACH - the best of
JOHN BARRY - thunderball o.s.t.
BEACH BOYS - pet sounds
BEATLES - magical mystery tour
BJORK - homogenic
CAKE - fashion nugget
MILES DAVIS - kind of blue
DIESELHED - tales of a brown dragon
EN VOGUE - funky divas
ESKIMO - the further adventures of der shrimpkin
FAITH NO MORE - king for a day fool for a lifetime
GENESIS - foxtrot
JAMIROQUAI - the return of the space cowboy
KING CRIMSON - larks` tongues in aspic
CAROLE KING - tapestry
MR. BUNGLE - disco volante
DOLLY PARTON - the best of (1970-1978)
SQUAREPUSHER - feed me weird things
PETER THOMAS - raumpatrouille
TORTOISE - millions now living will never die
XTC - white music
NEIL YOUNG - dead man
JOHN ZORN - elegy
BJOERN
http://www.cityinfonetz.de/uni/homepage/bjoern.eichstaedt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:00:00 +0200
From: Yves Dewulf <yves@inwpent1.rug.ac.be>
Subject: Re: New stuff in question
>Conrad Schnitzler - ? Who is this and what are his recent recordings
>like?
Conrad Schnitzler is a student of Joseph Beuys, was involved in
lots of performances in the late sixties and was known as
"the Mad Genius of West Berlin".
In '69 he joined Tangerine Dream (then Edgar Froese and Klaus Schulze)
to record "Electronic Meditation" (on which he played
cello,viola,flute and effects).
He left Tangerine Dream, unsatisfied with the vision of Froese and
joined Cluster (Roedelius + Moebius, forming Kluster), they recorded two
albums of pre-industrial/noise electronics in the early seventies.
He left Kluster for a solo-carreer, recording lots of very-limited LP's
(100 copies most of the time). Most of them based on his concept
of Cassette-concerts: recording drones and sequenced noises from analog
synths on several tapes, then live-mixing them to produce an unique
concert.
Some of these LP's were recently reissued
(Control, Charred Machinery,Electronegativity,...).
Since mid-eighties he's more focussed on the synclavier digital synth,
producing strange soundscapes (which he calls "Dramatic Electronic Music")
and complex rhythms (essential work: Constellations).
"Con Brio" contains more classical structured works and works for
piano (comparable to the Nancorrow player-piano pieces)
to conclude: He is one of the most original artists of the
German Electronics scene.
YVes
P.S. Schnitzler has a small web-site at
http://www.conrad-schnitzler.net4.com/
-
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 21:15:09 +1000
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: stockhausen
A while back there was a bit of talk about a version of Stockhausen's
"Kontakte" which included William Winant. Where is this recording
available?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 09:00:26 -0300
From: "A. Bueno" <jabu@sminter.com.ar>
Subject: Re: New stuff in question
Paul Chavez wrote:
>
>
> I was going over some new discs to buy and was curious to get feedback
> on the following titles:
>
> Field Recordings in Ghana - ? Is this more new age crap or authentic
> field work? It`s an authentic field recording
> Eyvind Kang - ? What in the world is this like?
It`s similar to the Arcana w/ Derek Bailey "power trio" cd
A.Bueno
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 14:23:04 +0200
From: Julien Quint <Julien.Quint@xrce.xerox.com>
Subject: Torture Garden Mystery
Patrice L. Roussel <proussel@ichips.intel.com> wrote:
> Nonesuch refused to put out the material of TORTURE GARDEN on their
> label. Because they refused to put out the music, they could not
> really prevent Zorn from getting it released somewhere else. It seems
> that they found an agree- ment: "you can put it in the US, but not on
> CD". This explains why Shimmy only put out vinyl/tape pressings of
> the record.
> Later on (1991), Toy's Factory released it on CD, which was OK with
> Nonesuch.
snip!
> Now, that does not explain why Shimmy made the record available again
> in October 96 (when the BLACK BOX was already announced)...
This is strange, because I bought a CD copy of Torture Garden way before 1996
(must have been around 1993) and it was already on Shimmy Disc, just like the
12" record (and I was under the impression that the 12" didn't have
*everything* that's on the CD... my CD has 46 tracks, running time approx. 26
minutes btw)
This is getting pretty complicated; maybe Shimmy Disc sold the CD only outside
the US? I bought mine in France. In regards to the last question, it's been
said on numerous occasion that Shimmy Disc have pretty dodgy business
practices.
I'm all confused about this now.
*
Julien
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 98 08:21:17 -0500
From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu
Subject: Re: 20 essential records
1. Frederic Rzewski The People United... Hat Art 1986
2. Charles Mingus Let My Children Hear Music Columbia
3. Harry Partch Delusion of the Fury Columbia
4. Ornette Coleman Science Fiction Columbia
5. Michael Mantler/JCOA Communications JCOA/Watt
6. Charles Mingus Presents Charles Mingus Candid
7. George Lewis Homage to Charles Parker Black Saint
8. Charles Mingus Mingus Ah Um Columbia
9. Roscoe Mitchell Congliptious Nessa
10.Art Ensemble of Chicago Les Stances a Sophie Nessa
11.Duke Ellington New Orleans Suite Atlantic
12.Gavin Bryars Sinking.../Jesus' Blood Obscure
13.Julius Hemphill 'Coon Bid'ness Arista
14.Glenn Branca The Ascension Neutral
15.Carla Bley/Paul Haines Escalator Over the Hill JCOA/Watt
16.Steve Reich Drumming DG
17.Dave Holland Conference of the Birds ECM
18.Anthony Braxton New York, Fall, 1974 Arista
19.Art Ensemble of Chicago People in Sorrow Nessa
20.Cecil Taylor Indent Arista
As you might guess, I've put some thought into this list (and more!)
previously, so I had it at the ready. You also might be able to
discern that, for me, the late 60's and early 70's were the source of
some great music.
No, no Zorn makes the list, though had you asked for best releases of
the 80's and 90's, he would have been well represented.
Brian Olewnick
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: 20 essential records
Author: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> at SMTP-for-MSSM
Date: 3/31/98 2:07 PM
1. PLEASE ANSWER PRIVATELY!!!! i am sure several people would be pissed
if you send the answers to the list THANX
2. This one goes mainly to people with CD/LP collections bigger than 1000
CDs/LPs (most of you guys I guess)
so this morning i looked through my record collection this way: WHAT
RECORDS WOULD I KEEP IF I COULD ONLY KEEP 20 OF THEM?????
so what records would u guys keep if you could only keep 20 of your
records????
i am interested in that because i am looking for essential records that i
do not have yet and i am in the mood of selling lots of my stuff that is
not THAT great!
BJOERN
http://www.cityinfonetz.de/uni/homepage/bjoern.eichstaedt
- -
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #284
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