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v02.n282
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1998-03-30
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #282
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Tuesday, March 31 1998 Volume 02 : Number 282
In this issue:
-
RE: the far side
Re: Naked City
Re: Naked City
Re: Bondage
Re: Naked City
Re: Naked City
Re: the far side
Re: Naked City
Gone, Just Like a Train
Re: Naked City
Re: Peter Thomas
Where to get the Bible Launcher CD
Re: Peter Thomas
20 essential records
Re: Naked City
Re: Naked City
Re: Naked City
Re: Scorn
Re: Naked City
Re: Naked City
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 09:19:07 +1000
From: Rohan James Parkes <marlowe@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: RE: the far side
I was waiting to see the special, which was shown here for the first =
time a few days ago, but I have to say I didn't care for it much. =
Unrelentingly morbid and depressing, and I thought some of the humour =
wasn't very convincing. But then I've always found Larson's humour to be =
patchy.=20
Frisell's soundtrack is too low in the mix, and I was rather =
disappointed to see that he only got a standard credit at the end. (And =
the credits rolled by too quickly.)
Rohan Parkes
The Something Else Show
3-PBS FM
Melbourne
Australia
http://www.vicnet.net.au/~pbsfm/jazz/default.html
- -----Original Message-----
From: Glenn Lea [SMTP:glenn_lea@avid.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 1998 1:42 AM
To: zorn-list
Subject: Re: the far side
rancor@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu wrote:
>=20
> By the way, I haven't seen this special either - has anyone?
I saw it. Funny and really sick. For example, one segment was about an =
"dude
ranch" for dead people who couldn't seem to keep all their body parts
attached. It deserves a
video release.
- -
=00=00
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 15:39:32 -0800
From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com>
Subject: Re: Naked City
William York writes:
> It's funny that no one mentions that the thrash songs on the first naked
> city album (10-17) are all repeated on Torture Garden, which is repeated
> in exactly the same order on grand Guignol, and are also available on the
> Black Box 2 CD which has torture garden. So the same performances of
> those songs (10-17 from Naked City) are repeated 4 times. I'm sure this
> is common knowledge to most but a lot of people, such as reviewers, don't
> make this connection. In any case Torture Garden is awesome, worth
> getting in one of its 3 fully avail. forms.
I'm a little confused. Are the tunes the same ones on each record, in
different peformances, or are they the same tunes and performances
recycled on each CD?
gg
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 18:16:26 -0500
From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net>
Subject: Re: Naked City
George Grella wrote:
>
> William York writes:
>
> > It's funny that no one mentions that the thrash songs on the first naked
> > city album (10-17) are all repeated on Torture Garden, which is repeated
> > in exactly the same order on grand Guignol, and are also available on the
> > Black Box 2 CD which has torture garden. So the same performances of
> > those songs (10-17 from Naked City) are repeated 4 times. I'm sure this
> > is common knowledge to most but a lot of people, such as reviewers, don't
> > make this connection. In any case Torture Garden is awesome, worth
> > getting in one of its 3 fully avail. forms.
>
> I'm a little confused. Are the tunes the same ones on each record, in
> different peformances, or are they the same tunes and performances
> recycled on each CD?
>
> gg
Same tunes, same performances.
I've never read any explanation as to why Zorn chose to do this but I
assume it had something to do with his desire to give each entire record
a sort of compositional structure. ie: NAKED CITY seems to be a
short/speed track sandwich on longer/focused track bread.
-Tom Pratt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 19:27:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: Bondage
On Mon, 30 Mar 1998, Remco Vlaanderen wrote:
> 'Osaka Bondage' is a short video clip by Henri Hills, a sort of collage
> clip
> using images from Japanese XXX-rated trash porn supported by naked City
> songs.
I saw Hills present this clip along with a number of other examples of his
work a couple of years ago. It's a fine piece of work, but it was made to
accompany the music (not vice versa) and Hills expressed some discomfort
about the bondage sequences, which he'd included because of Zorn's
interest in bondage.
Chris Hamilton
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 19:39:23 -0500
From: jkan@javanet.com
Subject: Re: Naked City
At 06:16 PM 3/30/98 -0500, Tom Pratt wrote:
>Same tunes, same performances.
>
>I've never read any explanation as to why Zorn chose to do this but I
>assume it had something to do with his desire to give each entire record
>a sort of compositional structure. ie: NAKED CITY seems to be a
>short/speed track sandwich on longer/focused track bread.
>
> -Tom Pratt
I'd guess it had something to do with Elektra/Nonesuch not being willing to
release that material in its entirety. I remember _Torture Garden_ coming
out on Shimmy Disc about the same time as _Naked City_, or shortly
afterwards, which seems to suggest that Zorn had to find another publisher
for the noisier stuff.
Speculation, of course....
Jim
//=========================================================================
// Jim Kan (jkan@javanet.com)
//
// However far you may travel in this world, you will still occupy
// the same volume of space.
// Traditional Ur-Bororo saying
//=========================================================================
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 17:11:22 -0800 (PST)
From: "Cappy D'Angelo" <cappyd@UVic.CA>
Subject: Re: Naked City
I too figured it had something to do with the different labels. Might it
also have something to do with difficulties with distributers/retailers
and certain graphics? (wasn't this the reason for the Black Box release
of Torture Garden by Tzadik?) This doesn't explain much, though, as the
original Torture Garden artwork seems the LEAST disturbing compared to
Naked City, Grand Guignol, etc. ...
I don't even own the ORIGINAL Torture Garden and I have two copies of all
those tracks between NC, GG, and the Black Box (which I had to get for
Leng Tche - what a great marketing ploy!)
Cappy D'Angelo
Student at Law - Intellectual Property
Dabbler in Recording - Sonic Solutions Digital Editing and Mastering
Twanger of Guitar & Blower of Eb Horns of Alto & Bari Persuasion
Victoria, B.C., CANADA
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 20:29:01 -0500
From: Uncle Meat <jf.lamarre@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: the far side
Yeah, on Quartet, released on Nonesuch in 1996
Julian wrote:
> Is Bill Frisell's music for Tales From The Far Side available on any
> of his
> releases?
>
> -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 21:04:08 -0500 (EST)
From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu>
Subject: Re: Naked City
> > It's funny that no one mentions that the thrash songs on the first naked
> > city album (10-17) are all repeated on Torture Garden, which is repeated
> > in exactly the same order on grand Guignol
> Actually, Grand Guignol contains all of Torture garden EXCEPT
> the thrash songs from Naked City.
I guess that's why no one mentions it! I don't have G.G. but I borrowed
and could have sworn it was the same thing. Anyway, here's another
comment that may be off base, but when listening to Radio, another one I
don't own, and reading the influences listed in the liner notes, I thought
the influences were pretty clear. The Stravinsky/Stallings one, the one
that cited the Ruins, and the Webern/Sinatra one stood out as being pretty
clear.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 23:08:02 -0500
From: chasinthetrane@juno.com (Jamie F Graves)
Subject: Gone, Just Like a Train
>The fourth person is Curtis Fowlkes on trombone and "Quartet" is an
>outstanding cd; by the way, any opinions on "Gone like a train"?
I'm still deciding on that CD. I bought it the week it came out, was at
first dissapointed with the CD, then it grew on me. There is nothing
wrong with the CD, it just doesn't really seem as inventive or fun as
either Quartet or Nashville were. Its about the most straight I've ever
heard Bill play, a lot of rock and folk and this album. However, granted,
some of the tracks are phenomenal. Girl Asks Boy 1&2, Wife and Kid, and
Verona are worth the price of the CD. Plus the cover art is really neat,
by this cartoonist thats friends with Bill.
All in all, its a great album, but I'm a little dissapointed in Bill.
Excellent playing from all three (Viktor Kraus and Jim Keltner are
phenomenal) but it doesn't seem all that new for Bill. Any other thoughts
on this disc?
Jamie
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 23:21:39 -0800 (PST)
From: tosh@loop.com (Tosh)
Subject: Re: Naked City
. The Stravinsky/Stallings one, the one
>that cited the Ruins, and the Webern/Sinatra one stood out as being pretty
>clear.
This is interesting! Explain the Sinatra influence.
- -----------------
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
- ----------------
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 16:45:47 +1000 (EST)
From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Peter Thomas
On Mon, 30 Mar 1998, Geoff S Gersh wrote:
> anyone familiar with Peter Thomas' Sound Orchestra??
>
> I heard some of his music from the film Chariots of the Gods on Spinning
> on Air, a radio show in NYC, the other night.....its pretty wild stuff.
>
"Chariots of the Gods" is great and totally destroyed!
Psych-baroque-exotica freakout! Aaah: those crazy Germans -
you gotta love 'em!
Another great one by Thomas is: "The Spy Set". Tho', despite these gems, I
haveta say - he did plenty of schlock cover versions of pop music of the
day - avoid that garbage at all costs.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 15:06:12 +0200
From: Ulrich Gernert <Ulrich.Gernert@TU-Berlin.de>
Subject: Where to get the Bible Launcher CD
Does anyone know, where I can bye Zorns "Bible Launcher" CD,
published on Radical House Records?
A distributor not so far away from Berlin, Germany.
Thanks
Ulrich Gernert
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:02:23 -0800 (PST)
From: tosh@loop.com (Tosh)
Subject: Re: Peter Thomas
I just bought the new Pulp single "This is Hardcore," and there is a sample
of Thomas's "Bolero on the Moon Rocks" on it. Any comments on the Bolero
record? The sample sounds great.
- -----------------
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
- ----------------
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 14:07:17 +0200 (MESZ)
From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de>
Subject: 20 essential records
1. PLEASE ANSWER PRIVATELY!!!! i am sure several people would be pissed
if you send the answers to the list THANX
2. This one goes mainly to people with CD/LP collections bigger than 1000
CDs/LPs (most of you guys I guess)
so this morning i looked through my record collection this way: WHAT
RECORDS WOULD I KEEP IF I COULD ONLY KEEP 20 OF THEM?????
so what records would u guys keep if you could only keep 20 of your
records????
i am interested in that because i am looking for essential records that i
do not have yet and i am in the mood of selling lots of my stuff that is
not THAT great!
BJOERN
http://www.cityinfonetz.de/uni/homepage/bjoern.eichstaedt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 08:47:14 -0800
From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com>
Subject: Re: Naked City
Tom Pratt writes:
> Same tunes, same performances.
>
> I've never read any explanation as to why Zorn chose to do this but I
> assume it had something to do with his desire to give each entire record
> a sort of compositional structure. ie: NAKED CITY seems to be a
> short/speed track sandwich on longer/focused track bread.
>
Wow, this actually bothers me, and I'm less inclined to be so charitable
to Zorn over it. I respect his musicianship and a lot of his work, but
there's a whiff of a cynical side now and then, and this smells of it.
He's turned into quite a manufacturer of his own work, with all the film
CDs and all the Masada recorinds, etc., et. al. Don't get me wrong, a
lot of this is great music, but there's redundancy as well, and, as this
list shows, a lot of devoted fans who'll buy most of everything. I
don't want to sound critical of the listeners, I'm not, hey, I paid full
price for the 25 minutes of music on Film Works VII [which also troubles
me].
This Naked City thing shows me a little too much of that; copying tracks
from one CD onto two others and selling them separately? For an
improvising artist especially, that just doesn't seem right. Am I the
only one who feels this way?
gg
P.S. and does that mean that "Absinthe" is the only recording that
shows a substantial variation on the other CDs, yet if it's almost the
same as Pain Killer, what's the point there?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 12:16:35 -0500
From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree)
Subject: Re: Naked City
>>>>> "George" == George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> writes:
George> This Naked City thing shows me a little too much of that;
George> copying tracks from one CD onto two others and selling
George> them separately? For an improvising artist especially,
George> that just doesn't seem right. Am I the only one who feels
George> this way?
Torture Garden was released two years, and recorded one year, before
the rest of Grand Guignol, and was originally 12-inch 45-rpm vinyl.
So although there was some duplication with the Elektra CD, it's not
like everything was available twice until much later. By the same
token, Naked City didn't return to the studio again until after both
the Elektra and Torture Garden were both released, and the remaining
disks (except for Leng T'che) was all released on Avant (and were
among the first releases on that label).
So, perhaps the initial duplication was due perhaps to contractual
dealings, and perhaps when GG was released, the original 45 had gone
out of print. Thus perhaps the release of the extra Torture Garden
material on GG provided a way to get all of the original material
available again. I agree that it seems a bit cynical to release it
yet again, but Leng T'che is IMHO the least listenable of all Naked
City, and thus the new Tzadik release would be fairly easy to overlook
(especially considering the excellent newer releases such as Angelus
Novus, Duras/Duchamp, Bar Kokhba, etc.) and should be considered for
completists only.
Discographical details courtesy of Patrice,
http://www.nwu.edu/wnur/jazz/artists/zorn.john/discog.html (who
mentions when albums are released, but unfortunately does not mention
how extensive the run is or when the release disappears from general
circulation (information which would no doubt be extremely difficult
to obtain with any degree of reliability).
- ---
Caleb T. Deupree
;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
(Pablo Picasso)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 12:18:42 -0500
From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree)
Subject: Re: Naked City
>>>>> "George" == George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> writes:
George> P.S. and does that mean that "Absinthe" is the only
George> recording that shows a substantial variation on the other
George> CDs, yet if it's almost the same as Pain Killer, what's
George> the point there?
Sorry, almost missed this one. While Absinthe does show a significant
variation from the other CDs, it is also very different from the
ambient CD of Painkiller. Absinthe is a larger group playing music,
the Painkiller disk is remixes.
- ---
Caleb T. Deupree
;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
(Pablo Picasso)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 06:43:19 -0500
From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey)
Subject: Re: Scorn
Matt Moffett <fkmoffet@erols.com> initially wrote:
>>Wed April 1
>>Invisible Records Tour, feat. Pigface, Scorn, FM Einheit (of
>>Neubaten), etc.(Scorn seems to be tentative, according to the venue
>>
>>they will be there, the record label seems confused)
a rancid amoeba <rancid@best.com> replied with, among other things:
>Scorn didn't play. Atkins came on stage to tell us all that Mick
>had gone to be with his wife/girlfriend/significant other (whichever
>it is) who had just had a baby girl. According to another source
>who'd talked to Mick by email, Invisible fucked up the paperwork
>to get him into the country and he was quite pissed. I wouldn't be
>surprised if he doesn't do any of the remaining dates.
What I know about this combines both stories. Mick's wife Helen did
just have their second child, but this was not going to prevent him
from coming over to do the tour. Someone (whether at Invisible or
not) _did_ fuck up his US work permit/paperwork, by not getting it
in time, but _only_ for the West Coast dates (SF & L.A.) and the rest
of the first half of the tour. Mick was definitely pissed off, but he
will (if all goes as planned ... hmmm??) be flying in to NYC (from
his home in Birmingham) on 4/1 to _start_ the remainder of the dates
that he is playing. This _begins_ with the NYC date on 4/2 (includes
a bunch of cities in between such as Toronto (4/7), Pontiac, MI,
Chicago (4/11) etc. etc.) and _ends_ with the Milwaukee date on 4/13.
Here's hoping he doesn't scrap the whole damn thing ...
- -Patrick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:29:00 UT
From: peter_risser@cinfin.com
Subject: Re: Naked City
About Black Box:
I remember Torture Garden fitting easily onto one side of a 90 minute tape (ie:
under 45 minutes). I also thought LengTche was under 30 minutes. Couldn't he
have pressed them both to the same disc? Although, 20 bucks for two short discs
isn't too bad, I guess. Just wondering.
Peter
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 12:54:20 -0500
From: Glenn Lea <glenn_lea@avid.com>
Subject: Re: Naked City
george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com wrote:
> I don't want to sound critical of the listeners, I'm not, hey, I paid full
> price for the 25 minutes of music on Film Works VII...
I didn't mind in this case since those 25 minutes are so damn good. It's
balanced out by the first Bar Hokhba, which was two loaded CDs for under $20.
However, I suggest you pass on Masada 4.
> This Naked City thing shows me a little too much of that; copying tracks
> from one CD onto two others and selling them separately?
He took about one third of a hard-to-find vinyl-only 45 EP and added them to
the middle of the Naked City CD. The remaining two thirds he put on the Grand
Guignol CD. I figured he was doing people a favor by making the EP's music
available to CD buyers -- the resulting CDs were both quite long.
Then the record company who had released the EP (Shimmydisc) decided to
release it on CD and created the CD "duplication". At least that's how I
remember it. I don't see it as that big a deal anyway. It's so easy now to
find out what's on a CD, even hear it before you buy. You don't have to buy
them all (and with Zorn, who could possibly afford to?).
(BTW, how many people besides me played the EP at 33 the first time -- it
sounded pretty cool that way).
> P.S. and does that mean that "Absinthe" is the only recording that
> shows a substantial variation on the other CDs, yet if it's almost the
> same as Pain Killer, what's the point there?
How is it like Pain Killer? Different band, different kind of music altogether.
"Heretics" is very different from "Naked City" and "Absinthe" and "Leng Tche".
Have you heard any of these? "Radio" is the only one that sounds like a
"variation" to me.
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #282
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