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1998-03-28
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #279
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Sunday, March 29 1998 Volume 02 : Number 279
In this issue:
-
RE: HORVITZ
TROMBONE
Re: Turkish Music
contact
Re:Turkish Music
Re: Re[2]: trombone (was: freejazz/general noise )
Re: Trombone
Re: Trombone
Re: feldman
Masada
Re: Masada
Re: Musique Concrete
Re: ducret
Adams [was Re: record-recommendations needed]
Re: feldman
Re: Musique Concrete
Re: Horvitz
Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #277
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 10:48:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Toby Dodds <toby@seanet.com>
Subject: RE: HORVITZ
>Anyone has recommendation on Wayne Horvitz's Pigpen "Daylight"?
>
>- -Hugo
I'm certainly no music critic, but in my oppinion every Pigpen release is
essential listening. This recording from 97 will definiately be the
last for a while and in many way is the best yet. It is without a doubt
the best "sounding" release from the band. It also is the best
performance in the studio by these guys. Briggan Krauss has certainly
only gotten stronger since deserting ;) the NW for NYC in 94. The rest
of the band shines as well, Horvitz and Krauss have a duet, and the
revisited version of V as in Victim is a much improved interpretation of
this Horvitz classic. I only wish Fred Chalenor was louder on bass.
He is incredible and a fine soloist as well. Mike Stone takes more
of a thrash approach to drumming than say Andy Roth from ZM and as a
result this rhythms tend to be more frantic, perhaps this is why Pigpen
is closer in spirit to Naked City than Zony Mash, which is more of a
groove... Definiately don't miss out on Daylight by Pigpen!!
Toby
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 98 15:47:31 -0300
From: hulinare@bemberg.com.ar
Subject: TROMBONE
Ellery Eskelin played tenor sax and Steve Swell trombone on Barondown.
- - Hugo, from Argentina
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:17:23 -0600
From: magnum-jihad@juno.com (Nathan M Earixson)
Subject: Re: Turkish Music
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998 09:03:29 -0800 George Grella
<george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> writes:
>Which makes me think of Derek Bailey's book, "Improvisation," which is
>a
>great introduction to many kinds of improvisation around the world.
>Anybody else here know it?
>
I just read it last month, incedentally. I consider it necessary reading
for anyone interested in Improvised music.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 14:47:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew Moran <moran@staff.juno.com>
Subject: contact
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 16:27:57 EST
> From: FUNKADELlC <FUNKADELlC@aol.com>
> Subject: .....
>
> how the hell do i contact john zorn?
> - -cory sklar
Practice!
um, -matt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 14:27:28 -0600
From: John Howard <Howard@3DI.com>
Subject: Re:Turkish Music
Nice try, but maybe I wasn't clear. Aside from very slight and very
occasional variations (not nearly on the scale of Baroque music) played
by the lead player (I forget the name of the instrument...Ugal maybe?)
There was NO improv. The music is too complex and there are too many
people playing. This was emphasized by the Indonesian guy who was
teaching us. In fact, a lot of the pieces are the same pieces played by
Gamelan group after Gamelan group. Any newer pieces involving extensive
improv would have been written specifically to counteract that. The
Balinese Gamelan music is closer in spirit to the current state of
Western Classical.
In addition, I find the insistence that music by non-Western people is
closer to improv a bit troubling and a hair colonial. As you note
Baroque music was significantly improvised and until the late 19th
century all western musicians were prized on their ability to improvise
and invest themselves into a piece, not just replicate notes on paper.
Indian music( for example) is improvised, but follows other very strict
and complex rules, so it is more of a guided improv, not wholesale
improv. Improv is the basis of ALL music, not just non-Western music.
Improv is a basic part of current Western music as well, aside from the
most rigidly trained Classical repertory musician, all musicians learn
to improv a little, the blues is such an essential part of our popular
music that improv is inescapable. Sorry I have gone on enough....
john(credentials-wise I play in a free music group, all improv, all the
time which made the constrictiveness of Gamelan challenging)
>Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 09:03:29 -0800
>From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com>
>Subject: Re: Turkish Music
>I think this opens up some interesting territory on the state and place
of music in the West and elsewhere. Improvisation in the West, outside
of jazz, has become almost fetishized in a way, certainly made up of
cult-like practioners and cult-like followers [and I don't mean that in
a perjorative way, I would number myself a member]. In other parts of
the world, improvisation is such a basic part of the music, of the
practice of the music, that it is an implicit part of a musician's
training. This used to be the case in the West, where musicians who
couldn't improvise idiomatically were not considered musicians.
It's not the amount of improvisation that matters, IMO, but the nature
of it. I think what John writes complements, not contradicts, the
improvisational basis of Gamelan, and other, music. While there may not
have been a lot of improvisation in the playing he was involved in [and
there are modern pieces that do involve improvisation in performance],
there was improvisation in the gestation of the piece and, if it was
traditional, there was some improvisation involved in the aural passing
along of the music. And the piece called for idiomatic improvisation,
even just a small bit, a lot like baroque era performance of Western
music, or Flamenco. I can't think of any non-Western music, off the top
of my head, that does not involved the training of its musicians in
idiomatic improvisation as a basis, not a specialty, of their playing.
Which makes me think of Derek Bailey's book, "Improvisation," which is a
great introduction to many kinds of improvisation around the world.
Anybody else here know it?
gg
- - -
- ------------------------------
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 15:48:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: trombone (was: freejazz/general noise )
Ellery Eskelin = tenor saxophone
Steve Swell = trombone
Ken Waxman
cj649@torfree.net
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998 peter_risser@cinfin.com wrote:
> Doesn't Ellery Eskilin play a trombone? At least on the Barondown stuff, I
> thought. Not exactly Noisy, or extended technique, but good stuff nonetheless.
>
> Peter
>
> ____________________Reply Separator____________________
> Subject: Re: freejazz/general noise
> Author: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com
> Date: 03/27/1998 11:19 AM
>
>
> On Fri, 27 Mar 1998 03:58:36 EST Geoff S Gersh wrote:
> >
> > check out:
> >
> > Jim Staley
> >
> > Stuart Dempster
> >
> > two very fine t-bone players......Dempster has a book out thats pretty
> > much all about extended trombone techniques
>
> Also add GENTLE HARM OF BOURGEOISIE by Paul Rutherford, recently reissued on
> Emanem. A classic of improv with extended techniques.
>
> Berio wrote one of his SEQUENZIA for trombone. Often cited as a model of
> what can be done to extend the way of playing this instrument.
>
> Vinko Globokar is a contemporary composer who happens also to be a trombone
> player. He has many compositions for brass, and specially trombone.
>
> I would like to mention Nicolas Collins, but his usage of the "trombone
> propelled electronics" has little to do with trombone playing :-).
>
> Patrice.
>
> -
>
>
> -
>
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 18:06:52 EST
From: QUESOMALO <QUESOMALO@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Trombone
You should check out the free improv "Yankees" with Zorn (sax, game calls),
George Lewis (trombone), and Derek Bailey (guitar). I don't know much about
trombones so I can't say much about what Lewis is doing to make noises, but I
find his playing and the cd to be very entertaining.
Does anyone know if this is game piece based on baseball? How does this
compare to the significantly more expensive "Harras"?
I also really like Robin Eubank's trombone playing on Steve Coleman's
"Rhythm People" (the track Blues Shifting especially) and Bobby Previte's
Empty Suits (I believe that he plays with a wah pedal on this one). It isn't
really noise or free jazz, just some nice 'boning
- -nick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 18:25:49 PST
From: "Silent Watcher" <silent_watcher@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Trombone
> You should check out the free improv "Yankees" with Zorn (sax, >game
calls), George Lewis (trombone), and Derek Bailey (guitar).
I'll second that, it is a great CD.
> Does anyone know if this is game piece based on baseball? How >does
this compare to the significantly more expensive "Harras"?
Not a game piece from what I recall. Just a series of improvs revolving
around baseball. I haven't heard 'Harras' yet, so I can't comment on
that!
SW
For Sale/Want List and Laswell discography at
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 22:56:15 -0500
From: stephen drury <stevedrury@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: feldman
On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, DR S WILKIE wrote:
>> can someone recommend one of the morton feldman cds of the later
>> works? e.g. "string quartet", "trio" "clarinet and string quartet"
>> etc. i just want one cd by him: are they all pretty similar or does
>> one in particular stand out? thanks...
>
>
I agree wholeheartedly with Joe Zitt on Feldman's PIANO AND STRING QUARTET,
and also the ...AND ORCHESTRA collection. But how did Joe miss "FOR MORTON
FELDMAN" on HatArt? Extraordinary piece; strongest impact of any Feldman I
know.
>ELEKTRA NONESUCH PIANO AND STRING QUARTET
>1993 7559-79320-2
>
>CPO ... AND ORCHESTRA
>1997 CPO 999 483-2
> 1972 Cello and Orchestra
> 1975 Piano and Orchestra
> 1976 Oboe and Orchestra
> 1978 Flute and Orchestra
>
>... the CPO bing a double-disc available very inexpensively.
>
>These discography listing are from the excellent resource at
>http://www.cnvill.demon.co.uk/mfcds.htm
>
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 20:39:25 -0800
From: "Cappy D'Angelo" <cappyd@uvic.ca>
Subject: Masada
Just picked up the Painkiller boxed set (and Filmworks VIII). Good
thing I didn't pay the mail-order price, as it would have cost almost
$100 with exchange/shipping/duty/gst. It only cost me $42.49 (less than
$30 US) at A & B (western Canada's answer to Tower). I asked if they
could order Masada 9, but they couldn't find Masada in their Koch
catalogue. Who's the Canadian distributor for DIW?
cappyd
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 20:57:44 -0800 (PST)
From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com>
Subject: Re: Masada
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Cappy D'Angelo wrote:
> Just picked up the Painkiller boxed set (and Filmworks VIII). Good
> thing I didn't pay the mail-order price, as it would have cost almost
> $100 with exchange/shipping/duty/gst. It only cost me $42.49 (less than
for those interested, Scratch Records
(Canada) is selling the Painkiller
box set for US$30. this is according
to their US dollar mailorder pricelist.
i'm not sure what their usual postage
rates are, but i'm sure it would
still cost less than the US$43 that
Amoeba is asking here in SF.
hasta.
Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 23:26:54 -0600
From: Paul Chavez <pmchavez@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Musique Concrete
Since we're on the subject, I saw a film about two months ago which
featured some incredible uses of experimental soundwork. When the movie
was over, I watched the credits to see who composed the music or if
there was a soundtrack available and there was no mention of either. It
was a Canadian film about a guy who had lost his reasoning abilities and
found that the only way to think clearly was to stick a sharp object
(like a pocketknife) under his fingernails. The film heavily featured
short-wave static as background. Overall, it reminded me of Zorn's
Absinthe.
Does anyone know what I'm talking about?
If the movie comes back around, I'm going to sit in the theatre with a
walkman and record it.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 01:16:14 -0500
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: ducret
Alan E Kayser wrote:
> Jason Caulfield Bivins wrote:
>
> > I'm
> > looking forward to the solo discs.
>
> Don't yet have the electric solo, but found the acoustic to be a
> disappointment. Sorry Marc, not this time.
The electric is similar but more powerful and interesting on the whole.
(Jason, if you hurry up and ask maybe Rusch will assign it to you...)
Better than just about anything I've heard is the Ducret/Previte Duo CD "In
the Grass," coming soon on Enja and already out in Europe I believe.
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 02:08:35 -0500
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Adams [was Re: record-recommendations needed]
George Grella wrote:
> If you picked up [Adams's "Harmonielehre"] and a Nonesuch CD with
> "Chamber Symphony" and "Grand Pianola Music," you'd have a great and
> deep survey of his work.
For the rank beginner I still think the Nonesuch disc that begins with "The
Chairman Dances" and ends with "Christian Zeal and Activity" is quite hard
to beat. The latter piece revisits his roots (it's a remake of an earlier
recording on Eno's Obscure label in probably the only instance of John Adams
and Derek Bailey coexisting on the same LP), while the former is a great
little orchestral outtake (not excerpt) from his opera "Nixon in China" and
to me is the apotheosis of Adams's minimalist period. Even though
"Harmonielehre" is without question the weightier and more important work, I
just love the fact that "The Chairman Dances" can encompass both the motoric
rhythms of all of his earlier music, the neo-Romanticism that has
increasingly taken over his work since then, and a sense of kitschy
melodicism as well -- it *is* a foxtrot, after all. There's a French horn
section line late in the piece that's so gorgeous, it's practically straight
out of "Der Rosenkavalier." Or, even more likely, Lerner and Loewe's
"Gigi." I haven't heard much to make me as gaga since then. The Violin
Concerto, for instance, I find self-conciously "difficult" and not very
compelling (and this as a fan of not just the Berg concerto but the
Schoenberg as well). My favorite Adams is the point where he was perfectly
balanced as the serious modern composer not afraid of a cheap laugh ("Grand
Pianola Music") and the minimalist not afraid of a conventional melodicism
creeping in from time to time. The recent "El Dorado" shows that he still
has it in him.
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 02:44:02 EST
From: JonAbbey2 <JonAbbey2@aol.com>
Subject: Re: feldman
In a message dated 3/27/98 10:57:39 PM, stevedrury@mindspring.com wrote:
<<I agree wholeheartedly with Joe Zitt on Feldman's PIANO AND STRING QUARTET,
and also the ...AND ORCHESTRA collection. But how did Joe miss "FOR MORTON
FELDMAN" on HatArt? Extraordinary piece; strongest impact of any Feldman I
know.
>>
OK, now maybe I'm completely off base here, but I don't think there is a
Feldman piece called FOR MORTON FELDMAN. My guess is that Mr. Drury is
referring to FOR BUNITA MARCUS which is also one of my favorite Feldman discs.
My other fave, which I haven't seen mentioned yet, is PATTERNS IN A CHROMATIC
FIELD, also on Hat Art. The musicians are Marianne Schroeder on piano and
Rohan De Saram (from the Arditti Quartet and AMM"s The Inexhaustible Document)
on violincello. This is the Feldman disc I play the most from my collection.
Jon
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 09:39:32 -0800
From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel)
Subject: Re: Musique Concrete
At 11:26 PM 3/27/98, Paul Chavez wrote:
>Since we're on the subject, I saw a film about two months ago which
>featured some incredible uses of experimental soundwork. When the movie
>was over, I watched the credits to see who composed the music or if
>there was a soundtrack available and there was no mention of either. It
>was a Canadian film about a guy who had lost his reasoning abilities and
>found that the only way to think clearly was to stick a sharp object
>(like a pocketknife) under his fingernails. The film heavily featured
>short-wave static as background. Overall, it reminded me of Zorn's
>Absinthe.
>
>Does anyone know what I'm talking about?
>
>If the movie comes back around, I'm going to sit in the theatre with a
>walkman and record it.
This sounds a lot like "Clean, Shaven". I was really impressed with the
music for this film also. The music was done by Hahn Rowe (not sure about
the spelling),a New Yok guitarist/violinist who was once a member of Hugo
Largo. I would really love to find a recording of this score.
________________________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/
"...there will come a day when you won't have to use
gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in
your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper
type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em
together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em
together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire."
-Sun Ra
________________________________________________________
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 11:21:19 -0800
From: "Patrick Stockton" <sheepherder@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Horvitz
someone wrote...
> Anyone has recommendation on Wayne Horvitz's Pigpen "Daylight"?
>
> -Hugo
yes..... my recommendation is to buy it immediately. not quite as
interesting a "V as in Victim" but a wonderful new release.
patrick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 00:31:02 -0800 (PST)
From: leon lee <llee15@ccsf.cc.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #277
I only wonder who Bob Gulloti is...
anyone know?
Bob Gulloti is in a trio called The Fringe. I know they have quite a few
records out though i only have The Return of the Neanderthal Man. I think
they are from Boston. The Return... is a great record of a live show and
they burn it up. I use to sit around listening to this when there wasn't
good shows (when i didn't have access). ...well that and
Yusef Lateef's Live @ Pep's. another concert going experience at home.
(that's another story though)
leon
--- Paid Advertisement ---
"...we could attempt the Masonna cover of Stars and Stripes Forever...
i'll bring my mic with the short-circuit."
david arnold -- member since 1998
SCMEP ccsf
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #279
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