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1998-03-25
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #276
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Thursday, March 26 1998 Volume 02 : Number 276
In this issue:
-
haino
Re: Musique Concrete
Re: Russian composers
Re: musique concrete
kristallnacht
keith jarrett-lou harrison
Re: New Thing reissues
morton feldman
Marc Ducret (then Keith Tippett)
Re: ducret
Re: Marc Ducret (then Keith Tippett)
Re: morton feldman
Re: Marc Ducret (then Keith Tippett)
Re: Keith Tippett and Roswell Rudd
Re: Surrender to the Air
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 21:09:43 PST
From: "Fran Bacon" <c123018@hotmail.com>
Subject: haino
I just got F'susha's DOUBLE LIVE (PSF 15/16) and I am stoked! This shit
is so amazing it makes me want to throw up. I will, no doubt get the
GOLD BLOOD record and a bunch of solo stuff. To all those who made
suggestions, I thank you. I haven't been more excited than this since
I got ahold of a London Jazz Composers' Orchestra record. I just rue
that the Japanese stuff isn't a few bucks cheaper on the average.
Better distribution might make them more affordable, one might think
they would sell better....is this guy a superstar in Japan?
I'd be interested in opinions on the Purple Trap box, although one or
two of you mentioned it in your earlier e.mails. If anyone wants to
sell their Purple Trap, I'm on. And to Tom Pratt or whoever had an
ALLEGORICAL MISUNDERSTANDING CD for sale---I want it, but I lost your
address...is it still there....?
Bye
SCOTT
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 16:59:51 +1100 (EST)
From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Musique Concrete
On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, George Grella wrote:
(snip)
>
> There is also a great CD on New World Records of film scores by Vladimir
> Ussachevsky. I would urge this one on anybody.
>
This sounds wild! Could you maybe post the titles of the films these
scores were for?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 08:33:43 +0100
From: flamerik@best.ms.philips.com
Subject: Re: Russian composers
> (snip)
> >
> > There is also a great CD on New World Records of film scores by Vladimir
> > Ussachevsky. I would urge this one on anybody.
> >
> This sounds wild! Could you maybe post the titles of the films these
> scores were for?
When I read this, I got an association with the Russian composer who did the
scores for Stalker and Solaris. His name is Edward Artemyev. I haven't heard
the scores, but can someone tell me whether these are any good, and whether
they are available?
Frankco.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 09:52:47 +0100
From: Yves Dewulf <yves@inwpent1.rug.ac.be>
Subject: Re: musique concrete
> I mean: if you look to where this stuff really started to come
> before an Anglo audience, it was maybe with: cut-ups of Buchanan and
> Goodman, Joe Meek's concrete intro to 'Telstar'. I'm a big fan of
> Jean-Jacques Perrey from way back, and his work might confuse a
> distinction between 'popular' and 'academic' even further. But to me,
> these terms are only indications of how many units a particular title
> managed to shift.
Speaking of Jean-Jacques Perry, he 'borrowed' quite often bits of
musique concrete by Pierre Henry. (on the LP":Moog Indigo (1969),
he uses bits of "Messe pour le temps present" by Henry/Colombier)
YVes
-
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 20:04:15 +1100 (EST)
From: Aaron Chee-Kean Chua <a.chua@ugrad.unimelb.edu.au>
Subject: kristallnacht
hi,
i just got Kristallnacht yesterday and am a little concerned about
listening to Never Again. how seriously should i take the warning in the
liner notes re: hearing damage/ loss? will playing the track softly be
just as harmful to my hearing? i don't really know much about the human
ear so any advice would be appreciated.
thanks.
aaron.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 12:36:15 +0200 (WET)
From: Vadim Marmer <msvadi@olive.mscc.huji.ac.il>
Subject: keith jarrett-lou harrison
i`m looking for information on Keith Jarrett`s "Piano Concerto / Suite
for Violin, Piano and Small Orchestra, (Lou Harrison)". I saw this CD in
the "Tower", but because of their new "yellow label" policy i can listen
to it only if i`m buying the CD, so before i do it, i`d like to know if
it`s worth buying?
any opinion will be appreciated.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 07:42:37 -0500
From: Glenn Lea <glenn_lea@avid.com>
Subject: Re: New Thing reissues
guthartz@nwu.edu wrote:
>
> At 04:09 PM 3/25/98 -0400, bopie@DRYCAS.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU wrote:
> >I'm curious about comments regarding the latest Impulse! New Thing
> >reissues. I have the Sun Ra disc, I think I've heard one of the two
> >Pharoah Sanders recordings. I am not familiar with the two Archie Shepp
> >discs, the Elvin Jones & Jimmy Garrison recording, or the new Coltrane
> >(the latter was available mostly on some collection). Thoughts?
>
> The Ra disc is the best of the bunch IMO, and the Shepp and Trane reissues
> are fantastic.
Shepp's Live in SF is 70+ minutes -- two entire LPs plus one more track. The
band includes
Roswell Rudd in peak form. Nice mix of "tunes" and longform free blowout.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 12:35:58 GMT0BST
From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk>
Subject: morton feldman
can someone recommend one of the morton feldman cds of the later
works? e.g. "string quartet", "trio" "clarinet and string quartet"
etc. i just want one cd by him: are they all pretty similar or does
one in particular stand out? thanks...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 14:31:18 +0100
From: Julien Quint <julien.quint@xrce.xerox.com>
Subject: Marc Ducret (then Keith Tippett)
Funny there's a discussion about Marc Ducret right now... I have mixed
feelings about him since yesterday.
I don't know much of his stuff but what I had heard so far was very good --
his playing in Caos Totale and also a few pieces I heard on the radio some
time ago of solo electric guitar where he would make a very interesting use
of distortion -- but yesterday night he was playing a show in my city for a
jazz festival as a leader and that was appalling.
Ducret's sound on guitar was irritating at best, with lots of reverb (not a
good thing when you do start/stops), the compositions were pretty lazy and
very long, with lenghty stretches of improvisation that didn't go anywhere,
and his playing was so sufficient and guitar-hero-like. He was only
listening to himself playing, not to the other players (which is a pity
because Bruno Chevillon played upright bass, and *he* was very good,
unfortunately the star was Ducret.) I've seen more interesting heavy metal
shows; here there was no dynamics, and the only images that this music
brought were those of a big guy in tight pants playing guitar. Reminded me
of Nigel Tufnel's solo in Spinal Tap, except his was funnier.
That was really a pity because as far as I know Ducret can be very good in
a group setting, or even solo, but as a leader... I was planning to record
the show and couldn't for some reason, but I really don't regret now.
On the other hand I regret I couldn't record Keith Tippett and his band
Mugician (Paul Dunmall on sax, Paul Rogers on upright bass and Tony Levine
on drums) the day before either. Their performance was the total opposite
of Ducret's: it was group playing all along, new things happened
constantly, making the whole hour they played a magical moment. I guess the
name they chose for this formation is very representative of what they do.
Tippett was playing prepared piano, and it was fun to see in the
reflections of the piano case what he was doing to get such sounds out of
his instrument. Paul Rogers was amazing on bass, inventive and
ressourceful. Paul Dunmall was impressive as well... As opposed to Ducret,
the improvisational moments were so tight that it was hard to tell what was
composed and what was improvised. Moreover, their dynamic range was very
large, and the music very evocative. Every time something new, fresh,
inventive was played, one musician would finish the phrase another would
have started. They played for one hour with no pause, and kept good things
coming all the time. Too bad there was no encore...
Anyone has recommendation on Keith Tippett? Does this group Mugician have
any records out? I'd sure like to hear that.
Sorry it was so long -- but I don't post often...
*
Julien
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 08:50:38 -0500
From: Alan E Kayser <aek1@erols.com>
Subject: Re: ducret
Jason Caulfield Bivins wrote:
> OK, file this under "lost causes" but if anyone is able to track down
> a
> copy of Ducret's "News from the Front" I recommend it highly. snip
Forget it, the old JMT releases are impossible to find. This is one
I've been looking for, no luck.
> I don't know of too much other stuff (though I believe some of the
> Label
> Bleu stuff is available from Cadence),
Yes they are. Once they were hard to find, but are in general release
here in the US.
> other than Berne and Sclavis.
His work on Berne's Caos Totale, Diminutive Mysteries, and original
Bloodcount is excellent. Especially on Caos Totale's "Pace Yourself."
He tens to be somewhat buried in Bloodcount, except when soloing. If
you can find Berne's "Big Satan" you'll get an excellent dose of
Ducret. Don't buy the ECM Sclavis to hear Ducret. He's buried in the
mix and does nothing of note.
> I'm
> looking forward to the solo discs.
Don't yet have the electric solo, but found the acoustic to be a
disappointment. Sorry Marc, not this time.
> Alan Kayser
>
>
>
> -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 08:36:28 -0500
From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree)
Subject: Re: Marc Ducret (then Keith Tippett)
>>>>> "Julien" == Julien Quint <julien.quint@xrce.xerox.com> writes:
Julien> Anyone has recommendation on Keith Tippett? Does this
Julien> group Mugician have any records out? I'd sure like to hear
Julien> that.
They have two CDs on Cuneiform (yes, the prog rock outfit), although I
haven't heard either one. Check out
http://members.aol.com/Cuneiform2/cuneiform.html.
- ---
Caleb T. Deupree
;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
(Pablo Picasso)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 08:16:26 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Subject: Re: morton feldman
On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, DR S WILKIE wrote:
> can someone recommend one of the morton feldman cds of the later
> works? e.g. "string quartet", "trio" "clarinet and string quartet"
> etc. i just want one cd by him: are they all pretty similar or does
> one in particular stand out? thanks...
I recommend "Piano and String Quartet", recorded on Nonesuch (I think) by
Aki Takahashi and the Kronos Quartet:
ELEKTRA NONESUCH PIANO AND STRING QUARTET
1993 7559-79320-2
1985 Piano and String Quartet
or "Only" on New Albion:
NEW ALBION ONLY: WORKS FOR VOICE AND INSTRUMENTS
1996 NA085 CD
1946 Only
1962 For Franz Kline
1963 Vertical Thoughts V
1972 Pianos and Voices
1973 Voices and Cello
1976 Voice, Violin and Piano
OTOH, I prefer his middle period, before he latched on to the repeating
modules. For those, I'd recommend the disc of his music on Auvidis
Montaigne:
AUVIDIS MONTAIGNE MORTON FELDMAN
1994 MO 782018
1970 The Viola in My Life I
1970 The Viola in My Life II
1971 I Met Heine on the Rue Frstenberg
1973 For Frank O'Hara
1976 Routine Investigations
OTOOH, if you want to get only one later-period piece, and can afford the
4 CD set, you might go with "For Philip Gustion", which exists in two
recordings:
HAT HUT FOR PHILIP GUSTON
1992 ART CD 61041/4
1984 For Philip Guston
BRIDGE RECORDS FOR PHILIP GUSTON
1997 BRIDGE 9078A/D
1984 For Philip Guston
+ Audio-visual track for Windows 95, 3.1
computers
OYAH: You might also look into his later large-ensemble works, which had a
very different, much denser sound. Two excellent examples:
HAT HUT NEITHER
1997 ART 102
1977 Neither (Opera in One Act)
CPO ... AND ORCHESTRA
1997 CPO 999 483-2
1972 Cello and Orchestra
1975 Piano and Orchestra
1976 Oboe and Orchestra
1978 Flute and Orchestra
... the CPO bing a double-disc available very inexpensively.
These discography listing are from the excellent resource at
http://www.cnvill.demon.co.uk/mfcds.htm
Was that more than you wanted to know?-)
- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 06:18:16 -0800
From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Marc Ducret (then Keith Tippett)
>Anyone has recommendation on Keith Tippett? Does this group Mugician have
>any records out? I'd sure like to hear that.
>Julien
UNE CROIX DANS L'OCEAN is a materpiece to my ears...Victo CD031...and I
don't usually like solo piano.
He sounds like an orchestra on piano...at times a gamelan orchestra...and
his regular ole piano playing skills are stunning.
I have one Mujician recording and I would describe it exactly as you
described the concert. Can't recall the title and don't have it at
hand......need coffee.
keith
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 10:25:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca>
Subject: Re: Keith Tippett and Roswell Rudd
To tie two recent threads together. Yes, Mujician has many CDs
out, many of which have got good reviews. However if you're really in the
mood for top-flight music try picking up "Bladik" (Cuneiform RUNE 92).
It's a thrre tune completely improvised session from London in 1996.
It features not only various members of Mujician --Paul Dunmall (ts), Keith
Tippett (p), Paul Rogers (b) and Tony Levin(d) --that's this thread, but
Elton Dean (as), who has played with Carla Bley and The Soft Machine,
among others -- and Roswell Rudd (tmb) -- the Impulse reissue thread.
It's definitely worth your currency, and as fine an example of
Rudd's playing in a contemporary group setting as I you'll find.
Ken Waxman
cj649@torfree.net
On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, Julien Quint wrote:
> Funny there's a discussion about Marc Ducret right now... I have mixed
> feelings about him since yesterday.
>
> I don't know much of his stuff but what I had heard so far was very good --
> his playing in Caos Totale and also a few pieces I heard on the radio some
> time ago of solo electric guitar where he would make a very interesting use
> of distortion -- but yesterday night he was playing a show in my city for a
> jazz festival as a leader and that was appalling.
>
> Ducret's sound on guitar was irritating at best, with lots of reverb (not a
> good thing when you do start/stops), the compositions were pretty lazy and
> very long, with lenghty stretches of improvisation that didn't go anywhere,
> and his playing was so sufficient and guitar-hero-like. He was only
> listening to himself playing, not to the other players (which is a pity
> because Bruno Chevillon played upright bass, and *he* was very good,
> unfortunately the star was Ducret.) I've seen more interesting heavy metal
> shows; here there was no dynamics, and the only images that this music
> brought were those of a big guy in tight pants playing guitar. Reminded me
> of Nigel Tufnel's solo in Spinal Tap, except his was funnier.
>
> That was really a pity because as far as I know Ducret can be very good in
> a group setting, or even solo, but as a leader... I was planning to record
> the show and couldn't for some reason, but I really don't regret now.
>
> On the other hand I regret I couldn't record Keith Tippett and his band
> Mugician (Paul Dunmall on sax, Paul Rogers on upright bass and Tony Levine
> on drums) the day before either. Their performance was the total opposite
> of Ducret's: it was group playing all along, new things happened
> constantly, making the whole hour they played a magical moment. I guess the
> name they chose for this formation is very representative of what they do.
>
> Tippett was playing prepared piano, and it was fun to see in the
> reflections of the piano case what he was doing to get such sounds out of
> his instrument. Paul Rogers was amazing on bass, inventive and
> ressourceful. Paul Dunmall was impressive as well... As opposed to Ducret,
> the improvisational moments were so tight that it was hard to tell what was
> composed and what was improvised. Moreover, their dynamic range was very
> large, and the music very evocative. Every time something new, fresh,
> inventive was played, one musician would finish the phrase another would
> have started. They played for one hour with no pause, and kept good things
> coming all the time. Too bad there was no encore...
>
> Anyone has recommendation on Keith Tippett? Does this group Mugician have
> any records out? I'd sure like to hear that.
>
> Sorry it was so long -- but I don't post often...
>
> *
> Julien
>
>
>
> -
>
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 11:31:14 +0100
From: Nils Jacobson <JACOBSON@frodo.mgh.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: Surrender to the Air
A fine record deserving attention. I agree about this.
Doug McKay <mckay003@maroon.tc.umn.edu> writes:
> Players: Marshall Allen, Trey Anastasio, Kofi Burbridge, Oteil Burbridge,
> Damon R. Choice, Jon Fishman, Bob Gulloti, James Harvey, John Medeski,
> Michael Ray, Marc Ribot.
You will note the weird combination of Sun Ra alumni with Phish-heads.
And wasn't Oteil in the Allman Brothers?
> I imagine this would be called a variant of Free Jazz. It's very coherent
> and seems almost composed. There are two pieces.
^^^^^^^^
I think the word is produced. I think this stuff was compiled out of a
jam, by our good friend Trey. Tastefully done, but it's important I
think to note how this differs from the open spontaneity of free jazz
performance.
> The listing goes like this:
> 1.Intro 2.And Furthermore 3.We Deflate 4.And Furthermore 5.Down
> 6.Intro 7.And Furthermore 8.And Furthermore 9.Out
And as you can tell, these are completely artificial titles, for tracking
purposes only, as far as I can tell. There are two pieces. These nine
things are just there to confuse you.
> The music is rather mellow, and even when it gets chaotic it isn't over the
> top. Good drumming. No one instrument commands the performance.
Yes, I would agree, but there are parts (for example, early on in the
first piece) where the intensity level reaches a plateau at a point where
most records don't dare to go. For Zornophiles, not a big deal.
- -Nils
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #276
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