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1998-03-25
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #275
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Wednesday, March 25 1998 Volume 02 : Number 275
In this issue:
-
funny games
Re: Ives
Re: Musique Concrete
Re: A Question For All You Music Scholars Out There
Re: Turkish music
Re: (MANCINI'S) PETER GUNN
Re: (MANCINI'S) PETER GUNN
Re: (MANCINI'S) PETER GUNN
Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #274 Peter Gunn
Re[2]: New Game Pieces
Re: (MANCINI'S) PETER GUNN
Re: Re[2]: New Game Pieces
RE: Bobby Previtte
Surrender to the Air
ducret
Re: Surrender to the Air
Re: MMW tapes
Discs
Re: ducret
Re: Question for Music Scholars
Re: (MANCINI'S) PETER GUNN
marc ducret: unsung badass
Re: musique concrete
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 11:08:47 -0500 (EST)
From: SAM Records <linemen@clark.net>
Subject: funny games
Saw the premiere of a new German film by Michael Haneke, "Funny Games" at
the Film Forum in NYC this weekend. It featured some stuff from Naked
City (_Grand Guiginol_) in the title credits that was just fabulously
effective. Highly recommended for fans of postmodern film.
Kevin Johnson
- ------------------------------
1415 Union Avenue
Baltimore, MD 21211-1906
WEB: http://www.jlsystems.com/linemen/
EMAIL: kevinjohnson@royal.net
FAX: 410-366-7329
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 08:10:56 -0800
From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com>
Subject: Re: Ives
> >Ives: "Holidays" Symphony (either Bernstein's or Michael Tilson Thomas's
> >recordings), Symphony #4 (Tilson Thomas).
> >- --steve
>
> I have to agree with Steve. The two most "exciting" Ives
> pieces I know are the "Holidays" Symphony and Symphony #4
> (in that order).
>
> David K.
>
Fellas, may I recommend the inexpensive Stockowski recording of the
Fourth on Sony? That and the full price one by Christoph von Dohnanyi
that's coupled with Varese "Amerique," they both are a shade better than
the Tilson Thomas, IMO, although MTT is the best on the "Holidays
Symphony," which by the way also uses the multiple orchestra device in
the Washington's Birthday movement, where Ives recreats the sound of
three marching bands playing simultaneously along different points of
the parade. Like parts of the Fourth, this music requires a second
conductor.
gg
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 08:16:14 -0800
From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com>
Subject: Re: Musique Concrete
> >I totally agree with Caleb Deupree that it is virtually impossible to find
> >musique concrete. When I asked at my local "classical music" record store for
> >Parmegiani, they took out a catalogue as thick as a phone book, but the name
> >Parmegiani wasn't in it, so they couldn't order it. Since this stuff is so
> >hard to find, I wouldn't really know which recordings are essential -
> >heck, I'm
> >not even sure of some of the stuff I have whether it is musique concrete or
> >electro-acoustic music or whatever.
>
> Actually one of the original (perhaps the original) Musique Concrete
> artists, Pierre Schaeffer, is finally properly documented in a 4-cd release
> from France on the Ina-grm label. Most of the material is from the 50's
> but has aged really well and is really fascinating... the book that comes
> with the set is in French so I can't comment, but it has some great photos
> :) Anyway I got my copy from Ear Rational (http://www.xmission.com/~ear/).
>
Frankco,
Sounds like the record store clerk was looking in the Schwann guide to
recordings in print.
I can't remember the exact title or lable off the top of my head [I'm at
work right now], but there is a very good collection of classic Musique
Concrete which features the Varese "Poeme Electronique," which I
believe is the first ever piece of that type, as well as Babbitt,
Reynolds, et. al. The Schwann guide should have it under Varese.
There is also a great CD on New World Records of film scores by Vladimir
Ussachevsky. I would urge this one on anybody.
gg
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 08:18:21 -0800
From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com>
Subject: Re: A Question For All You Music Scholars Out There
Concertos with four movements? Does it have to be exactly four, or just
more than three?
There's many, and many more than I can possibly think of right now, I'm
sure. If memory serves, the Lutoslawski Piano Concerto is four
movement, so is the Stravinsky Violin Concerto. You can always check
with Prokofiev for a plethora of concerto movements, five in at least
one piano concerto. That's a start.
gg
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 08:25:40 -0800
From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com>
Subject: Re: Turkish music
> Non-western improv in general -- tall order. Would you consider
> Nusrat improvisational? And there's a whole bunch of Japanese free
> improv listed at http://www2.gol.com/users/miyuki/index.html.
>
If you're looking for non-western improvisation, go to a record store
section that features traditional non-western music [non-pop], close
your eyes and point at something. Improvisation is a basis for pretty
much every non-western style. In general, try Gnawa music from Morocco,
Gamelan music, all Indian music [yes, Nusrat is highly
improvisational]. If you're looking for totally free improvisation
though, that is pretty much a 20th century western thing.
As other people have mentioned, there is a lot of recordings combining
jazz players and non-western improvisation, or western players
improvising non-western music. May I mention Codona, Glen Velez, lots
of Don Cherry, and many of the recent Butch Morris conduction series.
gg
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 17:31:11 +0100 (MEZ)
From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de>
Subject: Re: (MANCINI'S) PETER GUNN
there is one by Emerson, Lake and Palmer : )
B
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 17:44:54 +0100
From: Yves Dewulf <yves@inwpent1.rug.ac.be>
Subject: Re: (MANCINI'S) PETER GUNN
>
> On Tue, 24 Mar 1998 hulinare@bemberg.com.ar wrote:
>
> > Would anyone tell me about any groups or ensembles that played Henry
> > Mancini's Peter Gunn?
> > I listened to it last night in a local TV Show and it was great; rather
> > fast, very well played, and there were reeds.
>
> Haven't heard it, but I know Shelley Manne's version of Peter Gunn has
> just been re-issued on disc. Most of Manne's work is pretty great (err:
> to these ears, at least. Opinions differ in other quarters.)
There are also versions by:
-Roland Kirk (and I think: the Quincy Jones Big Band)
-The Art of Noise
-Dick Dale
YVes
-
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 10:45:39 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Subject: Re: (MANCINI'S) PETER GUNN
On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, BJOERN wrote:
>
> there is one by Emerson, Lake and Palmer : )
There's also an all-percussion one led by Michael Pugliese on his CD
"Perkin' at Merkin" with Kory Grossman, Christopher Nappi and William
Trigg. See http://www.mode.com/catalog/025pugliese.html
- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 12:24:25 -0500
From: Michel Rondeau <rondelle@bos.ca>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #274 Peter Gunn
>Hendrix also covered it on War Heroes or Hendrix in the West.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 17:16:07 UT
From: peter_risser@cinfin.com
Subject: Re[2]: New Game Pieces
Oh wow.
I would buy that book in a heart beat.
In fact, a book of any of his scores.
The cartoon one I saw (Roadrunner) was so graphically interesting...
Yeah, in a second.
Peter
<<I would love to see Tzadik or whomever publish a book of the game piece
scores, if they can be understood without his in-person coaching. Are
there any plans for this in the works (or is anyone on this list in a
position to kickstart such a project)? >>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:08:29 EST
From: Knutboy <Knutboy@aol.com>
Subject: Re: (MANCINI'S) PETER GUNN
Johnny Kidd & The Pirates!
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:13:53 -0500 (EST)
From: William R Baker <wrb@christa.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: New Game Pieces
I think a published book of Zorn scores would be great.
Especially if printed by Tzadik.
In the book of heads CD he talks about how he hoped that one day
the pieces would be studied by many guitarists to learn how to improvise.
John, if you don't publish your pieces how do you expect all these people
to learn them?
I for one have played a game piece or two and seen some of the scores so I
know they exist and are distributed to people John Zorn chooses.
I met a kid from New England Conservatory who asked John for some Naked
City scores and JZ practically gave him compies of ALL of the Naked City
pieces.
We could somehow make a new "real book" of some of JZ's pieces since the
scores would be obtainable from different sources
But I would much rather buy them from Tzadik along with the explanations
of how the pieces work.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 12:01:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Toby Dodds <toby@seanet.com>
Subject: RE: Bobby Previtte
FYI-
The Quartet featuring:
Wayne Horvitz - keyboards (Nord Lead)
Skerik - tenor sax, electronics
Dave Palmer - keyboards (Rhodes)
Bobby Previtte - drums
is recording in Seattle in April. There will be two shows in town at the
OK Hotel on April 9th & 10th, I believe. Past performances of this group
have been completely improvised and inspiring. Anytime Wayne and Bobby
collaborate it's a must see. I wonder when the other quartet record
comes out with E#, Zorn, Horvitz & Previtte? Could be an interesting
comparison, maybe they should make it one double CD.... Just a thought.
;)
Toby
wow a post without mentioning ZONY MASH... incredible.
DOH!
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:38:11
From: "Doug McKay" <mckay003@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: Surrender to the Air
Players: Marshall Allen, Trey Anastasio, Kofi Burbridge, Oteil Burbridge,
Damon R. Choice, Jon Fishman, Bob Gulloti, James Harvey, John Medeski,
Michael Ray, Marc Ribot.
1996 Elektra. Produced by Trey Anastasio
I imagine this would be called a variant of Free Jazz. It's very coherent
and seems almost composed. There are two pieces. The listing goes like
this:
1.Intro 2.And Furthermore 3.We Deflate 4.And Furthermore 5.Down
6.Intro 7.And Furthermore 8.And Furthermore 9.Out
The music is rather mellow, and even when it gets chaotic it isn't over the
top. Good drumming. No one instrument commands the performance.
I'd buy another.
Doug McKay
In Minnesota
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 15:21:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Caulfield Bivins <jbivins@indiana.edu>
Subject: ducret
OK, file this under "lost causes" but if anyone is able to track down a
copy of Ducret's "News from the Front" I recommend it highly. It's not
just a guitar album but features some nice work from trombonist Yves
Robert and, if memory serves, Herb Robertson as well. Sadly, it's one of
the many old JMT albums that are out of print -- but you can get it from
import CD sites, I believe.
I don't know of too much other stuff (though I believe some of the Label
Bleu stuff is available from Cadence), other than Berne and Sclavis. I'm
looking forward to the solo discs.
Jason Bivins
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 15:35:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca>
Subject: Re: Surrender to the Air
Doug:
If you like that you should start to investigate (if you haven't
already the recorded work of Sun and Michael Ray and the Kosmic Krewe.
Ray has one CD on Evidence. Ra has a whole series of must-haves --on
Evidence, on Delmark, on Leo, on hatArt etc. etc. I'd start with the
soundtrack to Space Is The Place, Angels and Demons and we Travel The
Spaceways (all Evidence).
Ken Waxman
cj649@torfree.net
On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, Doug McKay wrote:
> Players: Marshall Allen, Trey Anastasio, Kofi Burbridge, Oteil Burbridge,
> Damon R. Choice, Jon Fishman, Bob Gulloti, James Harvey, John Medeski,
> Michael Ray, Marc Ribot.
>
> 1996 Elektra. Produced by Trey Anastasio
>
> I imagine this would be called a variant of Free Jazz. It's very coherent
> and seems almost composed. There are two pieces. The listing goes like
> this:
>
> 1.Intro 2.And Furthermore 3.We Deflate 4.And Furthermore 5.Down
> 6.Intro 7.And Furthermore 8.And Furthermore 9.Out
>
> The music is rather mellow, and even when it gets chaotic it isn't over the
> top. Good drumming. No one instrument commands the performance.
>
> I'd buy another.
>
> Doug McKay
> In Minnesota
>
>
>
>
>
> -
>
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 12:45:08 -0800 (PST)
From: { brad brace } <bbrace@wired.com>
Subject: Re: MMW tapes
> From: Matthew R Levitt <levi0082@tc.umn.edu>
>
> I've got plenty of MMW on dat and cassette. I'd be very interested
> trading for zorn/knitting factory/tzadik artists.
Now, I'm rarely disappointed by the first two, so I wonder what tzadik is?
The_12hr-ISBN-JPEG_Project <<<
> episodic ftp://ftp.wco.com/users/bbrace <
> eccentric ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/bb/bbrace <
> continuous ftp://ftp.teleport.com/users/bbrace <
> hypermodern ftp://ftp.rdrop.com/pub/users/bbrace <
> imagery online ftp://ftp.pacifier.com/pub/users/bbrace <
Usenet-news: alt.binaries.pictures.12hr/ a.b.p.fine-art.misc
Mailing-list: listserv@netcom.com / subscribe 12hr-isbn-jpeg
Reverse Solidus: http://www.teleport.com/~bbrace/bbrace.html
{ brad brace } <<<< bbrace@netcom.com >>>> ~finger for pgp
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 17:09:09 -0500
From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net>
Subject: Discs
I promise this is the last time I'll do this kind of thing in a LONG
while. I'm sure these things piss some people off... Well, I'm sorry.
Feel free to bitch at me. First come, first serve and I'll cover postage
unless you're international. Thanks.
John Cage: The Complete String Quartets, Vol. 1 - perf. by Arditti Qrt.
(Mode) $10
Alvin Curran: Schtyx - feat. Abel-Steinberg-Winant Trio (CRI) $10
Myra Melford: The Same River, Twice - w/Douglas, Friedlander, Speed &
Sarin (Gramavision) $9
Fred Frith & Henry Kaiser: With Enemies Like These, Who Needs Friends?
(SST) $9
Elliott Sharp & The Soldier String Quartet: Cryptid Fragments (Extreme)
$10
Donald Byrd: Kofi - same session as 'Electric Byrd' (Blue Note) $8
Parliament: Tear The Roof Off (1974-1980) - 2-disc anthology
(Casablanca) $14
Parliament: 'Live' P-Funk Earth Tour (Casablanca) $9
New and Used: Souvenir -w/Douglas, Feldman, Driscoll, etc. (Knitting
Factory) $9
Jonas Hellborg/Buckethead/Michael Shrieve: Octave of the Holy Innocents
(Day Eight) $9
The Quintet (Gillespie, "Bird", B. Powell, Mingus & Roach): Jazz at
Massey Hall (Debut) $9
Steve Reich: The Desert Music (Nonesuch) $8
-Tom Pratt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 17:49:27 -0500 (EST)
From: edechena@thomas.butler.edu (Dechenaux Emmanuel)
Subject: Re: ducret
Of course, News From the Front is highly recommended ! Did you know it was
the soundtrack of some obscure German movie ? It is a great CD. Gris is
excellent also, and Le Kodo isn't bad at all. The arrangements on News
from the front are particularly great, with Ducret or Yves Robert playing
on the edge of the pitch. Everything or almost everything has been written
down ! Ducret writes almost all his music.
Well, try to get Details if you haven't listened to it yet.
See ya.
M_base
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 17:14:55 -0800
From: "Patrick Stockton" <sheepherder@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Question for Music Scholars
to the person who was inquiring....
i was unaware of Brahm's use of a fourth movement in any of his large works
(concerti, symponies, etc). but then again im not the biggest Brahm's fan.
The use of three movements in concerti and four in symphonies was
established in the classical era by masters such as Mozart and Haydn. Even
throughout the Romantic period, composers were sticking to this standard,
merely exchanging minuet-and-trio sections for scherzos and other new
movement styles coined by greats like Beethoven. not until the 20th cent.
with composers like Stravinsky, Mahler, etc. do we start to see four
movements in a concerto and five in a symphony. i am not sure if there is
one particular composer of historical or artistic merit who can be
pinpointed as the innovator of more movements. you might have found him
yourself in Brahms. anyone else????
patrick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 21:21:48 -0500
From: Zachary <zachary@netwalk.com>
Subject: Re: (MANCINI'S) PETER GUNN
Something interesting to check out is _Shots in the Dark_, a sort of
tribute record to Henry Mancini. Lots of surfy-type and lounge-style
versions of Mancini classics, including Man Or Astro-Man? ("Touch of
Evil"), Oranj Symphonette ("The Pink Panther Theme"), Wiskey Biscuit ("A
Shot in the Dark"), and Friends of Dean Martinez ("Lonesome").
And who does "The Peter Gunn Theme"? None other than Poison Ivy of the
Cramps.
_Shots in the Dark_ is on Donna Records, a division of Del-Fi Records
(catalog # DOCD 2113).
- -Zachary
- - _________________________
)) Zachary ((
[|**| zachary@netwalk.com |**|]
|__| "Coffee Cures Everything" |__|
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 20:26:32 PST
From: "Fran Bacon" <c123018@hotmail.com>
Subject: marc ducret: unsung badass
Hey! I just remembered a record I had with Marc Ducret, strictly on 6-
and 12-string acoustics---Louis Sclavis/Dominique Pifarely: ACOUSTIC
QUARTET (ECM). I've had it for years and only listened to it again last
night. Great record, with easily one of the best currently working
clarinetists/bass-clarinetists in the world, Sclavis! The nature of the
compositions reminds me a little of the Chimera WATCHMAN record, by all
means a "chamber jazz" record but the playing is great, the improvising
violin is better than Stephane Grapelli and arguably less inclined
toward cliches than Mark Feldman, and Ducret simply has his own thing
happening. Check it out! Holy cow!
KSh
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 16:09:50 +1100 (EST)
From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: musique concrete
On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, ia zha nah er vesen wrote:
(snip)
> Things brings up the question of whether to make a distinction between
> prjects like the above, or "bands" such as Zoviet France,the Hafler Trio,
> Nurse With Wound, and the more 'accademic' electroacoustic composers such
> as Stockhausen. Some albums by NWW (not all) are very much in this vein,
Dunno about this distinction; these "bands" owe as much to an academic
tradition as some of the more "academic" composers; the main difference is
in their marketing strategy: I understand Todd Dockstader (e.g.) was
opposed to any such thing. Also: I don't know that NWW or Zoviet France
are really operating out of a popular idiom (tho': what about something
like Rap?) To say nothing of contemporary pop-music production-techniques,
per se.
I mean: if you look to where this stuff really started to come
before an Anglo audience, it was maybe with: cut-ups of Buchanan and
Goodman, Joe Meek's concrete intro to 'Telstar'. I'm a big fan of
Jean-Jacques Perrey from way back, and his work might confuse a
distinction between 'popular' and 'academic' even further. But to me,
these terms are only indications of how many units a particular title
managed to shift.
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #275
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