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Zorn List Digest        Tuesday, March 3 1998        Volume 02 : Number 251



In this issue:
-
       Re: Filmworks VIII
       Re: NEW MUSIC REVELATION ENSEMBLE-WITH ZORN
       Re: Ornette Coleman
       Re: Ornette Coleman
       re: iceburn
       Re: Ornette Coleman
       RE: bass albums
       Re: Filmworks VIII
       Re: bass albums
       Re: Filmworks VIII
       Re: bass albums
       Re: Ornette Coleman (plus Don Cherry Eternal Rhythm)
       Re: bass albums
       Re: bass albums
       Re: Ornette Coleman
       Re: Praxis
       Re: Ornette Coleman
       Re: Panthalassa
       Re: William York
       Re: Ornette's Virgin Beauty
       Re: silkart?
       Re: Sun Ra
       Re: Trout
       Re: Filmworks VIII

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 21:29:00 -0800
From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Filmworks VIII

Tom Pratt wrote:
>
> I picked up 'Filmworks VIII' the other day because of the rave reviews
> on this list and I love it. It's by far the most enjoyable of the
> Filmworks discs I've heard thus far. Sometimes I have a hard time with
> the Filmworks discs but certainly not this one. Both soundtracks on this
> are really excellent. I recommend it wholeheartedly!

Seconded and then some; a beautiful record. As impressed as I am by JZ's
compositional skills, I'd still be amazed if the section titled
'Shanghai' was not derived, at least partially, from some pre-existing
Chinese folk song. Does anyone know about this? If he wrote this from
scratch, my hat's in doffing mode in perpetuity.

Brian Olewnick

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 00:01:04 -0500
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: NEW MUSIC REVELATION ENSEMBLE-WITH ZORN

Glenn Astarita wrote:

> Does anyone know if the Lucas cd will be an acoustic or electric outing ? Just curious...

Unfortunately there's no answer to your question on it, but this is as good an opportunity to
mention a site I just came across which may have been mentioned before but not to my
recollection...

http://www.garylucas.com

Loads of information, tourdates, discography, etc.  Nicely done.  Keep checking it, as I'm
sure there will be information about the new disc before long.  But perhaps someone out there
has seen the March Koch book?  (I've only seen the classical book myself.)

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 21:55:13 +0500
From: john petrie <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman

Marcin,

        you have just discovered possibly the most important post-Parker
saxophonist and composer in the creative music idiom. John Zorn could not
exist without the advances of this man. While many unfortunately labe his
music as "free jazz" i would strongly disagree. This music was indeed
revolutionary when his first records came out (1959 for the great Atlantic
reocrds, '57 for the Contemporary records) and many people thought that it
was indeed formless and that Coleman was a fake. However thirty years later,
i can't help but think that these people must be very embarrassed.

        anyway the record you bought features his electric group, PrimeTime.
If you dig Virgin Beauty others to look for are: Body Meta, Tone Dialing and
the indispensible In All Languages.

i highly recommend In All Languages as a great indtroduction to Ornette's
music. It has been recently reissued on cd and features his "original"
quartet in addition to Prime Time. Also after this i would say go ahead and
fork out the cash for the Beauty is a Rare Thing box set. This is six discs
of classic jazz. sorry for getting carried away...

john




- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 22:19:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman

On Mon, 2 Mar 1998 [e-mail] wrote:

> I found Coleman's "Virgin Beauty" LP and I fall in love.
> I thought that Ornette Coleman plays free jazz music only
> (my first contact with Coleman was Zorn's "Spy vs spy").
> Could someone tell me there are more such a beauty Coleman's albums or
> is it the only one?

Coleman's work tends to be extremely melodic, and not much like Zorn's
take on the compositions. _Virgin Beauty_ is, however,
unusually upbeat and uncluttered sounding.  If you like this one, you
might want to check out the recent _Tone Dialing_ (a bit less upbeat and
more rhythmically aggressive than _Virgin Beauty_, but still similar) or,
in a more traditional jazz context, his early records on Contemporary
(_Something Else!_ and _Tomorrow is the Question_).  These last two don't
sound much like _Virgin Beauty_, but are similarly nonabrasive.

Chris Hamilton



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 18:48:37 -0800 (PST)
From: leon lee <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: iceburn

  Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:40:01 -0500
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: iceburn

is there anyone interested in the band Iceburn (or the iceburn
collective)?

the iceburn collective is releasing their latest record called "Power of
the Lion" -- recorded last summer with a different configuration.  The
pieces based on some ideas about modulation.  I haven't heard it but
anyone who is interested, i'll post a review when i get an advance copy.
Anyhow, iceburn is not touring this summer (unlike the last 8 or 9
summers) but will be doing some laps of the u.s. sometime soon.  They've
also released a 12" called "Leos" which is very limited and have hand-made
covers.  Mine is a bunch of police photos of where drug traffickers hid
their drugs on their body.

is there another place where music we like is discussed that's not nyc
based?
leon

disclaimer:it's all blue.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 23:15:34 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman

john petrie wrote:

>         anyway the record you bought features his electric group, PrimeTime.
> If you dig Virgin Beauty others to look for are: Body Meta, Tone Dialing and
> the indispensible In All Languages.

Which reminds me: was Ornette's "Of Human Feelings" ever issued on CD?
If so, is it available anywhere? It's my favorite of the Prime Time
recordings, and I've only seen it on vinyl.
- --
- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:55:51 -0600
From: John Howard <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: bass albums

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 22:47:15
From: Jesse Simon <[e-mail]>
Subject: bass albums

I'm looking for albums of SOLO double bass. That's right. Unaccompanied
double bass. I'm sure some great bassist of the fifties or sixties must
have done one. Ron Carter perhaps? Paul Chambers? Jimmy Garrison?
Charlie
Haden? Gary Peacock? Even someone more modern would be good. If anyone
knows of anything, please e-mail me, privately or otherwise.

Thanks,
Jesse

Dave Holland's Emerald Tears on ECM remains the best I have heard, from
his peak during the 70's.  john

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 23:25:24 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Filmworks VIII

Brian Olewnick wrote:

> Seconded and then some; a beautiful record. As impressed as I am by JZ's
> compositional skills, I'd still be amazed if the section titled
> 'Shanghai' was not derived, at least partially, from some pre-existing
> Chinese folk song. Does anyone know about this? If he wrote this from
> scratch, my hat's in doffing mode in perpetuity.

Actually, if you shift a fairly small number of notes around, it's
"She'll Be Comin' Round the Mountain". 1/2-)
- --
- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 22:33:38
From: Jesse Simon <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: bass albums

Wow!
Thanks to everyone who sent their recommendations for bass albums. I'm
looking forward to finding some of them.

Digging through my record collection I found a track I'd forgotten about at
the end of John Coltrane and Pharaoh Sanders Live in Seattle, which is a
reasonbly long piece for solo bass (about eight minutes, I recall)
performed by Jimmy Garrison. It's not an entire album by any stretch, but
quite lovely.

cheers,
jesse


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 20:57:16 -0800 (PST)
From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Filmworks VIII

On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Joseph Zitt wrote:

> Actually, if you shift a fairly small number of notes around, it's
> "She'll Be Comin' Round the Mountain". 1/2-)

haha! that's exactly what i thought too!

hasta.

Yes.  Beautiful, wonderful nature.  Hear it sing to us: *snap*  Yes.  natURE.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:51:04 -0600
From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: bass albums

Jesse,

I know Dave Holland has done a couple at least.  I'm trying to remember the
names of them... Emerald Tears (maybe)... I actually have never heard them
but I want to!  Dave Holland is great.  I just wish his stuff wasn't so
close to the cheesy border.

Dan


At 10:47 PM -0600 2/27/98, Jesse Simon wrote:
>I'm looking for albums of SOLO double bass. That's right. Unaccompanied
>double bass. I'm sure some great bassist of the fifties or sixties must
>have done one. Ron Carter perhaps? Paul Chambers? Jimmy Garrison? Charlie
>Haden? Gary Peacock? Even someone more modern would be good. If anyone
>knows of anything, please e-mail me, privately or otherwise.
>
>Thanks,
>Jesse
>
>
>-




- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 01:14:02 -0500
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman (plus Don Cherry Eternal Rhythm)

Joseph Zitt wrote:

> Which reminds me: was Ornette's "Of Human Feelings" ever issued on CD?

It was issued in Japan, of course.  Antilles / Polystar J33D-20002.  And I
agree... to me, this album is the very essence of Prime Time, and in fact any time
Prime Time comes to mind it's the snappy Tacuma bass and Ornette's Stravinsky
quote at the beginning of "Sleep Talk" that I hear in my head, without fail.  But
this is an older CD (what an oxymoron that *still* sounds like) so it may be hard
to find.

Speaking of made in Japan, earlier this evening quite by accident I snatched up a
Japanese CD pressing of another rare old favorite of mine that's been discussed
'round these parts lately: Don Cherry's "Eternal Rhythm."  That has an issue date
of September 3, 1997, so maybe folks have seen it already.  Label is MPS, catalog
number is  POCJ-2520.  Listening to this again after years of leaving the vinyl in
its sleeve, and especially having listened to lots of real gamelan in the
meantime, it sounds especially fresh and enthralling.  Could've made more use of
Sonny Sharrock, but whatever.  Mighty fine, at $19.99.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:55:31 -0600
From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: bass albums

How about Trout Fishing in America... It's my favorite, however, I've never
heard it.

Dan

At 4:29 PM -0600 3/1/98, Keith McMullen wrote:
>Since there has been a long thread on bass albums, I thought it only fitting
>to start a thread regarding peoples' favorite trout albums.
>
>I'd recommecnd Trout Mask Replica by Captain Beefheart
>
>Others?
>
>Keith
>
>
>-




- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:09:00 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Rusty Crump)
Subject: Re: bass albums

>I'm looking for albums of SOLO double bass. That's right. Unaccompanied
>double bass. I'm sure some great bassist of the fifties or sixties must
>have done one. Ron Carter perhaps? Paul Chambers? Jimmy Garrison? Charlie
>Haden? Gary Peacock? Even someone more modern would be good. If anyone
>knows of anything, please e-mail me, privately or otherwise.
>
>Thanks,
>Jesse
>

Since Cory Sklar mentioned DOS, let me throw my 2=A2 in.

Uno Con Dos came out on New Alliance Records (Watt & D. Boon's label, dist.
by SST; the first Husker Du record came out on this label) and combines the
first EP and the first LP. This is definitely worth having. Vocals are kept
to a minimum, and when they are there, they're usually well chosen: Kira
sings a cover of Billie Holiday's "Don't Explain" and Watt grunts out Sonic
Youth's "Pacific Coast Highway."

Justamente Tres is on Kill Rock Stars, and in my opinion, it's pure cack.
Just a complete mess. Watt/Kira exhausted their personal set of
possibilities early on, long before they got to this one. The music is
badly-recycled "Uno Con Dos" and there are too many songs with vocals.
Blerf.

Rusty Crump
Oxford, Mississippi



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 23:16:05 -0800
From: "Patrick Stockton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman

sorry to rehash that which was already expressed in another post but... i
felt the need, due to my strong convictions concerning Ornette, to
reinforce what was previously stated with the goal in mind that hearing a
confirmation of an opinion will drive home what happens to be fact and an
aesthetic truth.  run-on-sentence notwithstanding, i digress.
"tone dialing" and "in all languages" are MUST HAVES for any person who
genuinely appreciates music on any level.  i will not state my reasons for
such a claim, for fear of lack of objectivism on my behalf.  but TRUST ME,
if you are rolling around your local CD store (support your local chain,
fuck TOWER!) and you are not sure what to pick up, look under "Coleman" and
pick up either or both of these works..... if you find them.  unfortunately
the only discs filed under Ornette are usually: "free jazz" and "the shape
of jazz to come". we can change that by buying the good shit.

patrick in portland

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 12:08:25 +0100 (MEZ)
From: BJOERN <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Praxis

i already sent that but it didnt reach the list i guess:

here in germany i just bought sacrifist as a special offer from a
mailorder service...
seems to be the original version (8 tracks, no executive producer etc.)

very cool record.....love it

BJOERN

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 01:08:21 -0700
From: john shiurba <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman

> "tone dialing" and "in all languages" are MUST HAVES for any person who
> genuinely appreciates music on any level.
....
> pick up either or both of these works..... if you find them.  unfortunately
> the only discs filed under Ornette are usually: "free jazz" and "the shape
> of jazz to come". we can change that by buying the good shit.

jesus, are you saying that "tone dialing" is the 'good shit'? compared to
"tsojtc" & "free jazz"? get ahold of yourself, man.

- --



[e-mail]

http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 10:09:49 GMT0BST
From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Panthalassa

An important (?!) correction to my earlier posted comments on
Panthalassa, in which I gave the impression that the "In A Silent
Way" medley is just remix and edit - that is, apart from the
complete waste of the first 75 seconds (wind -organ?- noises)
it doesn't contain anything not heard on the original album.

OOOPS! Actually, after the four minutes of the Silent way theme
(rendered by McLaughlin, then Shorter, then Davis), at which point
the original cuts to About That Time, there's a further 55 seconds of
this legendary 30 minute version that Bill says the original came
from, featuring McLaughlin noodling.  Quite pleasant, but hardly
earth shattering!

News of trainspotting on the other medleys will undoubtedly follow!

Sean

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 10:40:28 GMT0BST
From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: William York

William York asked about, inter alia, Douglas' Sanctuary and
Eskelin's The Sun Died.

The Eskelin, I like the best of all his stuff that I've heard.  Not
as out as Figure Of Speech, it's a tribute to Gene Ammons, with Ribot
on guitar filling the organ / guitar / bass / piano role, and
Wollesden on drums.  But if you don't like the early 60s soul end of
hard bop, then you might find it disappointing ...

The Douglas, I've just spent a lot of time with, and overcome my
initial ennui - I was torked at not getting it as cheap as first
promised by CdNow.  I'd have to say, though, that the sextet albums
(In Our Lifetime and Stargazer) remain my first choices for DD;
Sanctuary should be heard if you're a Douglas devotee, but if your
budget's tight I wouldn't insist you rush out for it.

Sean Wilkie





- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 10:52:03 GMT0BST
From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Ornette's Virgin Beauty

Marcin:

it's one of a kind!  But now you've heard it you'll find a lot of his
other music equally appealing.

Sean Wilkie

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 10:55:21 GMT0BST
From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: silkart?

As well as the earliest Charles Gayle, Silkheart put out Charles
Brackeen's Worshippers Come Nigh and Attainment, which I plug
tirelessly on these pages.  The tunes are like heavy rock
riffs and the playing is awesome!!  get em' now before I plug
them again!

Sean Wilkie


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 11:01:49 GMT0BST
From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sun Ra

David Thiel mentioned a book on Ra.  Does it have a decent
discography?  I am thoroughly baffled by the session details and the
conflicting sleeve notes on the Evidence reissues ... for instance,
Enlightenment on Jazz In Silhouette seems to be the same version as
that on Sun Sound Pleasure (though the mix or transfer sounds a
little different), though the details given differ.

I don't have the time I used to, to sort this all out by ear (I used
to be long-term unemployed on the 1970s Miles' live recordings).

Sean Wilkie

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 11:48:51 GMT0BST
From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Trout

I second Keith's recommendation of Trout Mask Replica
but let's not forget Eric Dolphy's Trout To Lunch, Trout There,
and Troutward Bound; Booker Little's Trout Front; Roy Haynes
(with Roland Kirk) Trout Of The Afternoon; Sun Ra's Trout Or
Spaceways Inc. (though Ra himself chose the Spaceways).

Viz. bass, Holland's "Ones All" is very good.  I find it hard to
believe that Ron Carter never made a solo album??

Sean Wilkie

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 13:17:09 +0100 (MEZ)
From: BJOERN <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Filmworks VIII

have to agree with all the positive reviews of this one.....
got it yesterday and love it...

B

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #251
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