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1998-03-02
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #252
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Tuesday, March 3 1998 Volume 02 : Number 252
In this issue:
-
New Tzadik Release -- Ikue Mori: B/Side
Re: Ornette Coleman
Re: Ornette Coleman
Re: Ornette
Re: Ornette Coleman
The Death of the Rare Bird Ymir and FW VIII
Andy Statman and Masada on WNYC
Re: Ornette Coleman
WUNH Durham: Modern Jazz report March 2 1998 (fwd)
Re: william hooker, lee ranaldo
Re: creative music for newbies
Re: bass
Re: Ornette Coleman
Re: The Death of the Rare Bird Ymir and FW VIII
RE: The Death of the Rare Bird Ymir and FW VIII
"new music from the usa"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 12:38:31 -0000
From: "Valverde,J" <J.Valverde@lse.ac.uk>
Subject: New Tzadik Release -- Ikue Mori: B/Side
I was wondering if this CD has been released yet, and if anyone would
care to offer their thoughts on it.
Thanks
James
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 08:20:23 -0500
From: Alan E Kayser <aek1@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman
Joseph Zitt wrote:
> john petrie wrote:
>
> > anyway the record you bought features his electric group,
> PrimeTime.
> > If you dig Virgin Beauty others to look for are: Body Meta, Tone
> Dialing and
> > the indispensible In All Languages.
>
> Which reminds me: was Ornette's "Of Human Feelings" ever issued on CD?
>
> If so, is it available anywhere? It's my favorite of the Prime Time
> recordings, and I've only seen it on vinyl.
Of Human Feelings was released as an early Japanese import. It is long
out of print.
Alan
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 08:31:55 -0500
From: Alan E Kayser <aek1@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman
Marcin.Witkowski@wor.tvp.com.pl wrote:
> I found Coleman's "Virgin Beauty" LP and I fall in love.
> I thought that Ornette Coleman plays free jazz music only
> (my first contact with Coleman was Zorn's "Spy vs spy").
> Could someone tell me there are more such a beauty Coleman's albums or
>
> is it the only one?
> Thanks
> Marcin
>
Ornette tagged one of his LPs "Free Jazz" but his playing is far from
what we now call free jazz. Thus he is not in the Albert Ayler shtick,
not that there's anything wrong with that! I think "In All Languages"
is a good place to go since both the acoustic and electric Ornette are
located there. However, far more "beauty" can be found on the Atlantic
recordings. If you have the $$$ and the desire, buy the box set "Beauty
is a Rare Thing." This contains all of the recordings still in
existence from the Atlantic period. If $ is a concern then go for "This
Is Our Music" "Shape of Jazz" or "Change of the Century" where you will
find Ornette at his best. On the electric side, "Body Meta" is good,
"Tone Dialing" varies from excellent to just ok. The two new Harmolodic
cds with Geri Allen are both excellent and Ornette is in top form. You
can't go wrong with either one of them. For long time Ornette fans like
myself there's a shock factor of hearing Geri Allen play piano on an
Ornette recording, but for newcomers that's not a problem at all.
Good hunting
Alan Kayser
> -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 13:00:16 GMT0BST
From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Ornette
No No No: keep away from Tone Dialing!!!
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 09:14:59 -0500
From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com>
Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman
On Mon, 02 Mar 1998 21:55:13 +0500, john petrie said:
> you have just discovered possibly the most important post-Parker
>saxophonist and composer in the creative music idiom. John Zorn could not
>exist without the advances of this man.
Well said! Zorn also has laid a lot of important groundwork himself.
>many people thought that it
>was indeed formless and that Coleman was a fake. However thirty years later,
>i can't help but think that these people must be very embarrassed.
I hate to say it but this is doubtful. These same people are probably now hailing Wyton as a
genius and haven't learned/understood anything.
> anyway the record you bought features his electric group, PrimeTime.
>If you dig Virgin Beauty others to look for are: Body Meta, Tone Dialing and
>the indispensible In All Languages.
All good choices. My favorite Prime Time record is Opening the Caravan Of Dreams.
Still have some fond memories of his show at Lincoln Center. Acoustics were pretty pitiful (esp.
considering what a famous concert hall it is). Ornette and Badal Roy were STUNNING! The video
and the dancers were interesting attractions but like most I really picked up on the 'freak show'
with the woman walking on broken glass, the woman who broke a cinder block over another who was
on a bed of nails and... (can't remember the other one, a contortionist?). John Szwed had an
interesting take on this:
Ornette told Prime Time that he really admired the way that sword swallowers, body piercers and
contortionists stretched the body and moved it to places which people can't move them. They
redefine the body. He said 'if we could only get the music to be that redefined and get the sound
as flexible as the body is.'
Jason
- --
Perfect Sound Forever
perfect-sound@furious.com
http://www.furious.com/perfect
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 09:18:32 -0500
From: David Keffer <keffer@shell.planetc.com>
Subject: The Death of the Rare Bird Ymir and FW VIII
Two things:
First: "The Death of the Rare Bird Ymir"
Yesterday and today, I've seen a couple people comment very
positively on Hans Reichel's "The Death of the Rare Bird
Ymir". I add my praise to theirs. The Ymir/Bonobo disc is, to
date, the premiere Reichel guitar disc. Hands down. The
original question asked was, if liking other recordings by Reichel,
was Ymir a good buy? The answer is yes. Patrice also mentioned
"Lower Lurum" as a good disc for guitar and daxophone. It's
good but, in terms of essentials, I have a different opinion.
Ymir is Reichel's disc for guitar and "Shanghaied on Tor Road"
is Reichel's incomparable disc for daxophone. (Shanghaied is also
on FMP, maybe 1992.) "Lower Lurum" doesn't compare to "Shanghaied"
in terms of absolute daxophone magnificence. On "Lower Lurum" the
daxophone has a muted presence beside the guitar. On "Shanghaied",
the daxophone appears unconstrained and roaring. "Shanghaied on Tor
Road" is the single-most alien-to-this-planet music (not noise)
that I have heard.
Second:
People have been going crazy about FW VIII and I can't believe
people are saying it's the best FW he's ever put out. My point
of view is this. If you listen to a soundtrack like that on FW III with
Ribot and Zorn doing sax/guitar duets, you think, not only is this
damn fantastic but only Zorn would have composed it. When you
listen to "Port of Last Resort", I kept thinking that I had heard
those tracks before. In fact, I started humming the words to a
song every time I heard the second track, "Shanghai".
I wasn't going to mention this, but having read this on the list,
>Brian Olewnick wrote:
>As impressed as I am by JZ's
>compositional skills, I'd still be amazed if the section titled
>'Shanghai' was not derived, at least partially, from some pre-existing
>Chinese folk song.
I will. You can sing the American folk song, "She'll be coming
around the mountain when she comes" to Track 2, ("Shanghai" I think).
That's right, get out your disc and sing along. I myself don't think
that this is anywhere close to the strongest FW output. Music very
similar to the song "Ruan", of which there are three versions on
FW VIII, has appeared, I think, in soundtracks to about 20 Chinese movies.
It may be nice but it lacks Zorn's signature; anybody could have composed
it (and some people already have, or variations thereof).
Not to be totally down on the disc, "Latin Boys go to Hell" is pretty good,
but whose going to say Zorn's best FW is all percussion?
As always, these preposterous opinions are provided gratis by David K.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 07:17:39 -0700
From: Jason Tors <jtors@usinteractive.com>
Subject: Andy Statman and Masada on WNYC
March 9th at 11pm on WNYC (93.9 FM) they are broadcasting Andy Statman
Quartet and John Zorn's Masada live from Merkin Hall.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 09:00:41 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman
On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Patrick Stockton wrote:
> "tone dialing" and "in all languages" are MUST HAVES for any person who
> genuinely appreciates music on any level. i will not state my reasons for
> such a claim, for fear of lack of objectivism on my behalf. but TRUST ME,
I was disappointed by "Tone Dialing". It's missing the clarity of earlier
Prime Time, being overloaded with rappers, keyboards, and other bells and
whistles that distract from the focus without integrating as well into the
ensemble work. You'll do better with "Body Meta" or "Dancing in Your
Head", as well as with the hard-to-find "Of Human Feelings" and "Live
at the Caravan of Dreams". (I also didn't particulary care for "Virgin
Beauty".) IMHO, of course.
On the other hand, "In all Languages" *is* essential, not only for the
playing but for its insights into the way the material works: most pieces
on it appear there twice, once by Prime Time and once by the acoustic
quartet.
-
- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 10:23:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Richard E Ladew <rladew@hopper.unh.edu>
Subject: WUNH Durham: Modern Jazz report March 2 1998 (fwd)
- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 08:20:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Rich Ladew <rladew@hopper.unh.edu>
To: rladew@hopper.unh.edu
Subject: WUNH Durham: Modern Jazz report March 2 1998
>To: Report
>From: rladew@hopper.unh.edu (Rich Ladew)
>Subject: WUNH Durham: Modern Jazz report March 2 1998
>
>Modern Jazz/PCP House of Coffee Playlist
>c/o Rich Ladew
>WUNH Durham, New Hampshire 91.3fm
>Memorial Union Building (MUB)
>Durham NH 03824
>rladew@hopper.unh.edu
>(603) 659-1732
>
>Modern Jazz/PCP House of Coffee playlist for March 2nd 1998
>Roughly 4-6 hours of weekly play
>
>(Artist)
>(ALbum Title, if available)
>(Label, if available)
>
>1.Thomas Chapin Trio
>
>(Knitting Factory)
>2. Dave Douglas
>(Sanctuary)
>(Avant)
>
>3. Brad Shepik and The Commuters
>(The Loan)
>(songlines)
>
>4. Ben Goldberg/Schott/Sarin
>(What Comes before)
>(Tzadik)
>
>5. William Hooker
>(title and label unavailable)
>
>6. John Zorn
>(Angelus Novus)
>Tzadik
>
>7. Buckethead
>(Colma)
>
>8. John Lindberg Ensemble
>
>(Black Saint)
>
>9. Vibes (Bill Ware et. al)
>
>(Knitting Factory)
>
>10. Prajna
>Postmodernism
>(eclectic)
>
>
Hoo-Ha!!!
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 10:56:27 -0500 (EST)
From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Re: william hooker, lee ranaldo
On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Rich Ladew wrote:
> is my question: Hooker mentioned a label ,I think it is calles Silkart or
> something (from Sweden?) Anyway, the things he was describing sounded
> fantastic, and Ive got to find more information.
> Thanks for indulging the long message,
hooker has 2 records on silkheart. he gave me a copy of the more recent
one, which is called _firmament / fury_, but unfortunately i can't remember
the title of the first. _firmament_ features, among others, donald miller
from borbetomagus on guitar and it's highly recommendable.
silkheart has also released great records from the likes of roscoe
mitchell, charles gayle, steve lacy, ahmed abdullah, david s. ware and
the new horizons ensemble.
b
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 10:57:47 -0500
From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree)
Subject: Re: creative music for newbies
>>>>> "Fran" == Fran Bacon <c123018@hotmail.com> writes:
Fran> What (however many, as many as you'd like) particular
Fran> records or types of stuff do you think would be thoughtful
Fran> and penetrating, yet accessible enough to make the
Fran> "uninitiated" (pardon the elitist flare) hungry for more?
I've introduced my lifelong companion to many different types of
music, and the ones which have been most successful have been those
which have a relatively consistent sound throughout. Her taste ran
from pop (Celine Dion, Tina Turner) to smooth jazz (Bob James, Joe
Sample, Norman Brown) to Enigma, to meditational, and to classical
(Mozart, Tchaikovsky). From Enigma it was a small step to world beat
(Gipsy Kings, Youssou N'Dour, Sheila Chandra), so that was pretty
easy. Enigma and meditational also leads pretty easily to most types
of ambient and even some electroacoustic (including Xenakis). The
jazz background was also expanded pretty easily, up to (but not
including) European free improv, but she likes Frisell and Horvitz a
lot. The classical influence shows up in carefully arranged pieces
like some of the Filmworks, Redbird, and Bar Kokhba.
I've had the least success with genre-hopping and extremely complex
noise, and particularly with sudden changes in volume. Mr. Bungle,
Ground Zero, and Naked City drive her crazy (except for Absinthe,
which she likes).
- ---
Caleb T. Deupree
;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
(Pablo Picasso)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 11:14:18 EST
From: FUNKADELlC <FUNKADELlC@aol.com>
Subject: Re: bass
In a message dated 98-03-03 07:24:26 EST, you write:
<< Since Cory Sklar mentioned DOS >>
hee hee.. thats me... ... anyways.. i have this funny cd by fIREHOSE called
BIG BOTTOM POW WOW... its just Mike Watt, Flea, Chris Kirkwood and Les
Claypool <via phone> talkin about da bass.. it has a few fIREHOSE songs thrown
in here and there....
- -corn dog sklar
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 08:23:50 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman
On Mon, 02 Mar 1998 21:55:13 +0500 john petrie wrote:
>
> Marcin,
>
> you have just discovered possibly the most important post-Parker
> saxophonist and composer in the creative music idiom. John Zorn could not
> exist without the advances of this man. While many unfortunately labe his
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There is a large body of Zorn's output that has nothing to do with Coleman.
> music as "free jazz" i would strongly disagree. This music was indeed
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Though this applies perfectly to the record FREE JAZZ.
I am sometimes wondering if Coleman does not hate this record... Without
it, it would have been harder for lazy jazz critics to pigeonhole him so
easily.
Patrice.
> revolutionary when his first records came out (1959 for the great Atlantic
> reocrds, '57 for the Contemporary records) and many people thought that it
> was indeed formless and that Coleman was a fake. However thirty years late
r,
> i can't help but think that these people must be very embarrassed.
>
> anyway the record you bought features his electric group, PrimeTim
e.
> If you dig Virgin Beauty others to look for are: Body Meta, Tone Dialing a
nd
> the indispensible In All Languages.
>
> i highly recommend In All Languages as a great indtroduction to Ornette's
> music. It has been recently reissued on cd and features his "original"
> quartet in addition to Prime Time. Also after this i would say go ahead an
d
> fork out the cash for the Beauty is a Rare Thing box set. This is six disc
s
> of classic jazz. sorry for getting carried away...
>
> john
>
>
>
>
> -
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 08:43:24 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: The Death of the Rare Bird Ymir and FW VIII
On Tue, 03 Mar 1998 09:18:32 -0500 David Keffer wrote:
>
> Two things:
>
> First: "The Death of the Rare Bird Ymir"
> Yesterday and today, I've seen a couple people comment very
> positively on Hans Reichel's "The Death of the Rare Bird
> Ymir". I add my praise to theirs. The Ymir/Bonobo disc is, to
> date, the premiere Reichel guitar disc. Hands down. The
> original question asked was, if liking other recordings by Reichel,
> was Ymir a good buy? The answer is yes. Patrice also mentioned
> "Lower Lurum" as a good disc for guitar and daxophone. It's
> good but, in terms of essentials, I have a different opinion.
> Ymir is Reichel's disc for guitar and "Shanghaied on Tor Road"
> is Reichel's incomparable disc for daxophone. (Shanghaied is also
> on FMP, maybe 1992.) "Lower Lurum" doesn't compare to "Shanghaied"
> in terms of absolute daxophone magnificence. On "Lower Lurum" the
> daxophone has a muted presence beside the guitar. On "Shanghaied",
> the daxophone appears unconstrained and roaring. "Shanghaied on Tor
> Road" is the single-most alien-to-this-planet music (not noise)
> that I have heard.
I have to acknowledge that I don't know SHANGHAIED ON TOR ROAD. I can
swear that this is a blunder that I will fix RIGHT NOW!!!
Thanks for the advice (you description of it makes water dripping
from my mouth :-).
> Second:
> People have been going crazy about FW VIII and I can't believe
> people are saying it's the best FW he's ever put out. My point
> of view is this. If you listen to a soundtrack like that on FW III with
> Ribot and Zorn doing sax/guitar duets, you think, not only is this
> damn fantastic but only Zorn would have composed it. When you
> listen to "Port of Last Resort", I kept thinking that I had heard
> those tracks before. In fact, I started humming the words to a
> song every time I heard the second track, "Shanghai".
> I wasn't going to mention this, but having read this on the list,
On this topic, I would say that I like FW VIII as much as the
Masada's... Everything is perfect but I can't prevent a yawn after
5mn (although this does not really apply to LATIN BOYS GO TO HELL).
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 11:28:13 -0600
From: Glenn Astarita <gastarit@comm.net>
Subject: RE: The Death of the Rare Bird Ymir and FW VIII
On this topic, I would say that I like FW VIII as much as the=20
Masada's... Everything is perfect but I can't prevent a yawn after
5mn (although this does not really apply to LATIN BOYS GO TO HELL).
Patrice.
- -
After several minutes of the percussion movement I was tempted to hit =
the "stop" button on ye olde cd player. It doesn't go anywhere =
(IMO)..otherwise a 4 star outing for the band !
glenn
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 19:08:38 +0000
From: patRice <gda@pingnet.li>
Subject: "new music from the usa"
hi y'all...
the following might be of interest to all zornsters living in and around
zurich/switzerland.
from march 20 to 22 there's a weekend of "new music from the usa"
happening at the "tonhalle". saturday, march 21 is dedicated to the "new
york underground" (that's what they're calling it).
the "ensemble collegium novum zurich"
performs works by mark dresser, george e. lewis, john zorn
double bass & musical supervisor: mark dresser
flutes: matthias ziegler
i hope i can make it. if i can, i will most definitely let you all know
how it was.
other days:
friday: works by steve reich, john adams; piano: peter waters
saturday (afternoon): open forum with mark dresser & george e. lewis
sunday: works by roberto sierra, james primosch, kenji bunch, bright
sheng, miguel del aguila; ensemble collegium novum zurich
patRice
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #252
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