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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #244
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Thursday, February 26 1998 Volume 02 : Number 244
In this issue:
-
re:gone...
RE: FRISSEL HELP
Rituals is not live in Osaka
Re: new 4cd painkiller
milford graves
braxton book:dirt cheep
Keaton/Frisell
re:praxis
re:praxis
re:praxis
RE: Painkiller Confusion - MN stores
re:praxis
re:praxis
Re: [chi-improv] braxton book:dirt cheep
Re: Buster Keaton
Re: Free Jazz - New transfer
Re: Free Jazz - New transfer
Re: milford graves
Re: Frisell help
Re: Filmworks VIII
Re: Buster Keaton
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:17:30 -0700
From: louie <louie@gwtc.net>
Subject: re:gone...
> Judging by the reaction of certain people on this list to
> "Gone, Just Like A Train"
i thought i was paying attention. i don't recall any negative reaction
to "gone..." i love it! listen to torture garden then immediately listen
to gone...just like a train, your emotions run the entire gamut!
- -louie
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:36:30 EST
From: FUNKADELlC@aol.com
Subject: RE: FRISSEL HELP
In a message dated 98-02-25 11:19:54 EST, you write:
<< _Live_ featuring Driscol and Baron. Awsome stuff, very close to a Frisell
concert (Actually, it was) with plenty of "outness" for all. >>
i advise you all to get this album.. i just got it myself... its really
hypnotic and all dat good shit.. really scattered but in an organized way...
ya'kno9w what i mean?
- -corn
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:41:49 -0500
From: David Keffer <keffer@shell.planetc.com>
Subject: Rituals is not live in Osaka
> the only question i have is: is "live in osaka" the same as the
> recording on the cd "rituals".
"Rituals" is not "Live in Osaka".
Rituals is PainKiller + Haino. Live in Osaka is PainKiller + Eye.
Rituals sounds like "Guts of a Virgin" and "Buried Secrets".
Live in Osaka sounds like "Execution Ground" and the zorn/eye
sax/voice duos from Naked City's "Heretic" release.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:40:14 -0600 (CST)
From: Brian & Sharon Beuchaw <beuchaw@enteract.com>
Subject: Re: new 4cd painkiller
On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, louie wrote:
> i just bought the new 4cd box set of painkiller last night. here's what
> i have discovered: first, it is 4cd's, the first cd being marked "disc
> zero" and it contains the entire first two albums (guts and secrets)
> plus "marianne" with whats-his-face from ruins.
It's Keiji Haino from Fushitsusha and Nijiumu (but not Ruins).
> the only question i have is: is "live in osaka" the same as the
> recording on the cd "rituals". seems strange that the box set says right
> on the case "painkiller, complete works 1991-1994" and not include
> rituals?
No, "Live In Osaka" is "Live In Osaka" and "Rituals" is "Rituals".
"Rituals" is *not* included on this set. Jeez, this has only been talked
about a half dozen times - check the archives (if they're still around).
:-)
cya
brian
- --------------------------------------------------------
"The most dementing of all modern sins: the inability to
distinguish excellence from success." - David Hare
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:48:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org>
Subject: milford graves
speaking of the new tzadik releases, i picked up a copy of graves' new
solo _grand unification_ and it is really a great, great disc! very
similar to his 1960's album on esp with sunny morgan, except the
recording quality is so much more vibrant and this time around there's
lots of chanting from graves. highly recommended.
btw: does anyone besides me own graves' record, _babi_, with arthur doyle?
it is one of the most unrelentingly skronky albums i own. where did they
get all that energy?
b
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:46:23 PST
From: "Fran Bacon" <c123018@hotmail.com>
Subject: braxton book:dirt cheep
A Helio Hello:
The new University of Chicago Press sale catalog came to me by mail the
other day. Ronald Radano's NEW MUSICAL FIGURATIONS: ANTHONY BRAXTON"S
SOCIAL CRITIQUE is on sale for $3.00. That's right. Part of a
publisher overstock thingy; you can find the listings by subject in the
overstock section, back of the catalog. Just thought ya'll would be
interested.
KSH
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:51:52 -0600
From: Craig Rath <fripp@ibm.net>
Subject: Keaton/Frisell
>As a huge Buster Keaton fan (own all the silents via three box sets on
>laser disk, all MGM via two box sets on laser, as well as 8mm prints,
>etc) and a Bill Frisell nut, I too have reservations about Bill playing
>alongside the films. It doesn't really work very well. Bill's music is
>a bit too distracting.
Here I have to disagree. While I've never made an effort to play the disc
alongside a video of the movie it represents, I did get a chance to see
Bill play his music live with the movies playing on a screen behind the
band. It was amazing. The only distracting thing for me in this instance
was that it was my first time seeing either the film or the band so I had
to make decisions at times which one to watch more closely. Anyone who has
seen Joey Baron live knows what I'm talking about. As far as the music
being too distracting, I don't believe this is true. It seemed to flow
very well alongside the film. When the timing is on and the cues are
right, the music works. When you try to play the disc with the video, no
matter what the timing is going to be off just a bit. I would be willing
to bet that if they ever released a tape of the film with Bill's music
seamlessly integerated into the soundtrack, you would have a different
impression.
>Film music for the most part should not distract
>from the visuals, especially so for silent films. Electric guitar
>interpretations of on screen actions seem out of place in a silent, as
>would say King Oliver during Terminator 2. However, I certainly enjoy
>the music without the film, and applaud Bill for trying this daunting
>task.
The thing I found most interesting about the live concert/film experience
was that there were about half of the people there for the movies, and the
other half there for Frisell. In the end both sides of the coin flipped
for the whole experience. I saw people who had never even heard of Frisell
commenting on how great the music fit. He's not likely to ever do it
again, I suppose, but if he ever does, try to see the combination live.
It's truly the definitive way of enjoying his unique interpretations of
these films.
For an interesting take on modern music for a silent listen to
>the Club Foot Orchestra do "Sherlock Jr." Though not entirely
>successful, it seems a better match than Frisell. I've also tried Mark
>Dresser's music for "Dr. Calidgari" but found that the running speeds
>vary so much that unless you have the exact right speed it becomes a
>major distraction, too.
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:31:45 -0700
From: louie <louie@gwtc.net>
Subject: re:praxis
> Sacrifist is the most extreme of the 4 discs. Its also the only one that
> doesn't have a real "band" feel.
"unproduced" as it were. i'm sure they're guilty as charged!
i also find the "one 45 minute track" concept another slap in the face
of mainstream music. of course the fact that zorn is involved makes this
a moot point...
- -louie
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:13:50 PST
From: "Silent Watcher" <silent_watcher@hotmail.com>
Subject: re:praxis
>"unproduced" as it were. i'm sure they're guilty as charged!
>i also find the "one 45 minute track" concept another slap in the face
>of mainstream music. of course the fact that zorn is involved makes
this
Apparently you have a bootleg copy of the album, as the original
"Sacrifist" is not one long track. My friend got a copy of what is
probably the one you have, which breaks into Lightnin' Rod's "Hustler's
Convention" (I think) at some point on the disc.
SW
For Sale/Want List and Laswell Discography @
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 07:37:59 +1000
From: Paul Jacobson <pauljay@webtime.com.au>
Subject: re:praxis
>Apparently you have a bootleg copy of the album, as the original=20
>"Sacrifist" is not one long track. My friend got a copy of what is=20
>probably the one you have, which breaks into Lightnin' Rod's "Hustler's=20
>Convention" (I think) at some point on the disc.
Unfortunately it isn't a bootleg. Jeff has mentioned the quality issues of=
post-Laswell Subharmonic releases, and this is a fine example. Apparently=
the current label "owner" and erstwhile "executive producer" didn't have=
access to the master tapes and the crap bootleg style pressing that is=
currently available in the guise of an offical release is the result. Jim=
Koehnline's artwork also suffers from the copying process.=20
A good indication that the copy is vicitim of the repressing process is
* The title is in chunky white type as oposed to far smaller gold/bronze=
type on a "fully functional press"
* The back cover has the line "Realization by John Matarazzo"
If a copy your looking at has these features insist on listening before you =
buy
at which point you'll probably hear that there is only one track with sound=
quality about 2-3 generations below the original + the last 10-15min=
consist of some half-step dj messing with "Hustlers Convention"
peace
Paul
material-ism=20
http://users.webtime.com.au/pauljay/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:25:57 +0000
From: "Charles Gillett" <gill0042@tc.umn.edu>
Subject: RE: Painkiller Confusion - MN stores
On Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:03:10 -0600, JRZ <zube@winternet.com> wrote:
> I saw this at the Electric Fetus in Minneapolis for $25. I pre-ordered it
> from cdnow for a bit more. DOH! That's what I get for not supporting the
> local guys.
I went back there and got it yesterday, even though I wasn't in
that "Painkiller mood" (I find I can justify any purchase as long as
I'm in the mood). I knew I'd kick myself if I ended up getting it
later for $40, or $60 as is recommended on the Tzadik page.
> Any Minnesota people seen Masada 9 or the new Filmworks anywhere in town? I
> haven't seen a Masada disc on any shelves for quite some time.
Go back to the Electric Fetus, go to the Jazz new release rack,
find the Painkiller CD, then take one step to your left. Masada 9
for $19.99, Filmworks VIII for $14.99 (and remember, buy three or
more CDs and they're all 10% off).
On Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:09:21 -0700, louie <louie@gwtc.net> wrote:
> and true to tzadik's form, the printing of the artwork is impeccable.
> all intact & uncencored as specified.
Impeccable as long as you don't handle the paper, if even then--the
main crease in the Execution Ground liner notes of my copy is one big
ugly ragged white stripe, running through the songlist for the ambient
disc. The glossy-paper stuff ages badly, I think. My copy of Zorn's
"First Recordings" looks like it's been through a war, and I hardly
ever listen to it, much less abuse the artwork.
Here's to matte paper!
- -- Charles
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:40:19 -0800
From: Jeff Spirer <jeffs@hyperreal.org>
Subject: re:praxis
At 07:37 AM 2/26/98 +1000, Paul Jacobson wrote:
>>Apparently you have a bootleg copy of the album, as the original
>>"Sacrifist" is not one long track. My friend got a copy of what is
>>probably the one you have, which breaks into Lightnin' Rod's "Hustler's
>>Convention" (I think) at some point on the disc.
>
>Unfortunately it isn't a bootleg. Jeff has mentioned the quality issues of
post-Laswell Subharmonic releases, and this is a fine example....
Paul is very correct on this. Unfortunately, there is nothing in print
right now that is done right. Look for either the Toys Factory release or
the original Subharmonic release, which does not bear the name of an
executive producer or someone who labels themself with the term
"Realisation." Unfortunately, Bill has no control over the quality of
anything coming out on Subharmonic these days.
Jeff Spirer
B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com
Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html
Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:16:25 PST
From: "Silent Watcher" <silent_watcher@hotmail.com>
Subject: re:praxis
>Unfortunately it isn't a bootleg. Jeff has mentioned the quality issues
of=
> post-Laswell Subharmonic releases, and this is a fine example.
Thanks for the info. I knew about all the Subharmonic dealings, but
wasn't aware of how degenerate these people are, to put that out as an
official release. Especially with that "Hustler's Convention" bullshit
tacked on the end.
SW
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:31:20 PST
From: "Fran Bacon" <c123018@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [chi-improv] braxton book:dirt cheep
>
>An address would help :-).
>
>Even better, the amount to send them (including postage) to get it!
>
> Patrice.
TO ALL CONCERNED:
My catalog has DISAPPEARED. Go check the Website at
www.press.uchicago.com, or something similar. Mr Beatus seems to have
it. I'm suffering from "Electric Fetus syndrome", wherein I bought the
book two years ago for $20. So someone ELSE post the answers.
I love all of you
fb
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:34:05 -0500
From: James Hale <jhale@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Buster Keaton
Alan E Kayser wrote:
It doesn't really work very well. Bill's music is
> a bit too distracting.
It worked brilliantly live (as witnessed at the Victoriaville festival)
especially with Joey watching the film, cracking up and improvising like
mad.
James Hale
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:57:10 -0700
From: Barry Gilbert <barry.gilbert@internetmci.com>
Subject: Re: Free Jazz - New transfer
At 10:02 AM 2/25/98 +0000, you wrote:
>while the 6CD box of Coleman recordings is a prize possession for me,
>it can be a dent in the wallet. The FREE JAZZ single disc in
>Britain comes complete with the "First Take" first heard on Twins, so
>it's not a bad buy if it's mid-price like it is over here ...
>
>Sean Wilkie
>
I've got originals of everything in this box with the exception of the
Gunther Schuller pieces. How are these?
Barry Gilbert
Boulder, Colorado
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:06:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: Free Jazz - New transfer
On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Barry Gilbert wrote:
> I've got originals of everything in this box with the exception of the
> Gunther Schuller pieces. How are these?
Interesting, but a bit dry, especially in contrast to the other stuff on
the set. They're almost certainly not worth the price of the box.
However, the six Coleman compositions which were (as far as I know) never
otherwise released are on a par with the previously released stuff. These
may be worth the price of the box if you're a big Coleman fan.
Chris Hamilton
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:00:37 -0500
From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net>
Subject: Re: milford graves
Brent Burton wrote:
>
> speaking of the new tzadik releases, i picked up a copy of graves' new
> solo _grand unification_ and it is really a great, great disc! very
> similar to his 1960's album on esp with sunny morgan, except the
> recording quality is so much more vibrant and this time around there's
> lots of chanting from graves. highly recommended.
I actually picked this one up today as my Tzadik pick (it was a tough
battle between Graves, Daniel Goode, and Filmworks VIII) and I've really
been enjoying it! I haven't gotten to listen to the whole thing yet
because I also picked up a 3-LP set of Chinese Opera, but I wasn't
expecting 'Grand Unification' to be as energetic as this! I was actually
just going to post asking where else I can find this guy so thanks for
the info on the record with Doyle. I just got introduced to Arthur
Doyle's music through two of his solo records which I can't decide if I
like or not... Anybody have Doyle recommendations?
-Tom Pratt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:06:26 -0500
From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net>
Subject: Re: Frisell help
> I second this. I would add to _Where in the World_ and _Have a Little
> Faith_ two disks:
I think 'Where In The World?' is Frisell's best! Especially the third
track, "Spell"... awwww! A good intro to Frisell would be 'Where In The
World?' and 'Quartet' I think. 'Quartet' is such a GREAT disc!
> _Is That You?_ which was produced by Wayne Horwitz, features a recording of
> "Yuba City", (Which Wayne also recorded with THE PRESIDENT) a great
> reworking of "The Days of Wine and Roses" and everything in between.
'Is That You?' is probably my least favorite Frisell record actually. I
do like the 'Live' album a lot but think 'Is That You?' should be
avoided as well as the Vernon Reid duets.
-Tom Pratt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 17:23:42 +1100
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: Re: Filmworks VIII
> Filmworks VIII is fast becoming my favorite, alongside Filmworks IV.
Filmworks
> III wasn't too bad either. The fact that it was released so soon after it
was
> recorded probably means that the rate at which releases in the Filmworks
series
> are issued will be dropping. Unless there is a lot of archive material,
of
> course. The first part of FW 8 really makes me look forward to that
Masada
> String Trio album, as well as Circle Maker.
I was under the impression that Circle Maker (at least the first disc of
Circle Maker) WAS the Masada String Trio album. Am I wrong?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:31:32 +0000
From: "p.rice" <gda@pingnet.li>
Subject: Re: Buster Keaton
alan
i do disagree with you.
i saw bill frisell's buster keaton project live (with full cinema
screen), and have to say it was excellent. i didn't know all of the
films beforehand, but had always liked the ones i knew. after the
concert i got even more into buster keaton.
i think that the whole thing went very well. the band used tv-monitors
so they always knew what was happening on the screen, and kept up no
problem with every single change on-screen. (i'm sure it took them some
time to work all that out.) the music - because of the bands accurate
playing - never distracted me from the film, it only enhanced a lot of
the parts.
also, don't forget that at the time the silent films originally came
out, cinemas used to have an in-house piano player to improvise along to
the films. bill's idea bases on a long forgotten tradition. i must admit
though, that the idea of a band playing to a film probably only works in
a live concert/screening; and not sitting at home, chucking the cd into
the stereo and trying to get that in synch with your video!!!
patRice
Alan E Kayser wrote:
>
> As a huge Buster Keaton fan (own all the silents via three box sets on
> laser disk, all MGM via two box sets on laser, as well as 8mm prints,
> etc) and a Bill Frisell nut, I too have reservations about Bill playing
> alongside the films. It doesn't really work very well. Bill's music is
> a bit too distracting. Film music for the most part should not distract
> from the visuals, especially so for silent films. Electric guitar
> interpretations of on screen actions seem out of place in a silent, as
> would say King Oliver during Terminator 2. However, I certainly enjoy
> the music without the film, and applaud Bill for trying this daunting
> task. For an interesting take on modern music for a silent listen to
> the Club Foot Orchestra do "Sherlock Jr." Though not entirely
> successful, it seems a better match than Frisell. I've also tried Mark
> Dresser's music for "Dr. Calidgari" but found that the running speeds
> vary so much that unless you have the exact right speed it becomes a
> major distraction, too.
>
> Alan Kayser
>
> >
> >
> > -
>
> -
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #244
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