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1998-02-15
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #233
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Sunday, February 15 1998 Volume 02 : Number 233
In this issue:
-
Re: DRUM N BASS N JUNGLE
Ventura Music
Re: DRUM N BASS N JUNGLE
Re: DRUM N BASS N JUNGLE
Re: DRUM N BASS N JUNGLE
Re: DRUM N BASS N JUNGLE
Re: Sax Wars
Re: DRUM N BASS N JUNGLE
Re: _Machine Gun_
Re: DRUM N BASS N JUNGLE
Re: Pain Killer cover album
Re : Drum N Bass N Jungle
circle maker/braxton
painkiller in europe
Re: circle maker/braxton
Looking for recommendations
Thomas Chapin
Re: circle maker/braxton
Re: circle maker/braxton
selling vinyl Big Gundown
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:06:40 -0800 (PST)
From: a rancid amoeba <rancid@best.com>
Subject: Re: DRUM N BASS N JUNGLE
> << > I've been told there's a difference between drum 'n' bass and jungle,
> > but have failed to figure out how people define each. Any help out
> > there?
> damn.... i go to raves alot here in LA... and the JUNGLE room is always the
> same as the DRUM N BASS room.... they never have different rooms.. and it
> sounds the goddamn same.... except the kids call it Jungle and the radio
> prgrammers call it DrumNBass .... i dunno.. its just sped up hip hop and break
The difference between the two seems to depend alot on who you ask and
the time period you're refering to. In the beginning, if it was from
England it was drum-n-bass, if it was from the US it was jungle. Some
people call the minimal stuff drum-n-bass, the more raggamuffin sounding
stuff jungle (and earlier on the minimal stuff usually came from England
and the busier stuff from the US). Then there's those who say that if it's
good it's drum-n-bass, if it's bad it's jungle. Now it's turned into
such a hodge podge....who knows.
> beats to me... with fat ass bass of course.... but if ya wanna get CRAZY with
> the new electronic scene.. i suggest y'all start listening to DEATH CORE and
> GABBER CORE.... that shit is crazed!!!!! 230 beats per minute..with cool
> thrash metal samples and horror movie samples.. some DJ's to look for in the
> hardcore/death-core scene are OMAR SANTANA, DJ TRON, DELTA 9 and countless
> others.....sorry for ranting
And The Bezerker!!
chanel
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
http://www.arancidamoeba.com/ rancid@best.com
r e c o r d l a b e l s o n t h e w e b
future home of a rancid amoeba records
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:59:54 -0800
From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Ventura Music
For interested Southern Californians:
NIGHT OF THE TRIOS
Vinny Golia Trio
Brad Dutz Trio
Golia/Dutz Sextet
Saturday, Feb. 28 @ 8pm
$6
City Hall
Ventura CA
INSECT AND WESTERN MUSIC
Eugene Chadbourne Septet
(with Jeff Kaiser, Vinny Golia, Jonathan Segel,
Gene Doi, Jim Connolly, & Rich West)
Saturday, Mar. 7 @ 8pm
$6
Art City II
Ventura CA
E-mail me privately for directions,
keith
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:16:41 -0800 (PST)
From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com>
Subject: Re: DRUM N BASS N JUNGLE
On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, a rancid amoeba wrote:
> The difference between the two seems to depend alot on who you ask and
> the time period you're refering to. In the beginning, if it was from
> England it was drum-n-bass, if it was from the US it was jungle. Some
i've heard tell that "jungle"
got switched to being called
"drum'n bass" because the former
wasn't PC. is this true?
hasta.
Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:31:00 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: DRUM N BASS N JUNGLE
On Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:16:41 -0800 (PST) SUGAR in their vitamins? wrote:
>
> On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, a rancid amoeba wrote:
>
> > The difference between the two seems to depend alot on who you ask and
> > the time period you're refering to. In the beginning, if it was from
> > England it was drum-n-bass, if it was from the US it was jungle. Some
>
> i've heard tell that "jungle"
> got switched to being called
> "drum'n bass" because the former
> wasn't PC. is this true?
That's exactly what I was told also.
The Bailey duo was annouced as a jungle record...
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:55:55 -0500 (EST)
From: matthew.colonnese@yale.edu (Matthew Colonnese)
Subject: Re: DRUM N BASS N JUNGLE
>i've heard tell that "jungle"
>got switched to being called
>"drum'n bass" because the former
>wasn't PC. is this true?
>
That's mostly the story I've heard too. "Jungle," I believe was a reggae
club invention, or at least it grew up there and on pirate radio reggae
shows in the UK. As more techno (read white) producers got into the sound
and began producing "jungle"-like records the name switched to "drum and
bass," ostensibly because using any referent to the jungle to refer to a
primarily black music form was racist. Sounds good, except that what got
the "drum n' bass" tag was the stuff the white kids made that stripped out
the heavy heavy bass and raga rydmns. So most commonly now Jungle refers
to the more bass-heavy, vicarious thrill side of things, "drum n' bass" to
bass striped, more cerebral side. Doesn't sound a like a whole lotta
progress was made toward removing the inherent racism in the terms.
- ------
"Finally, a thing-a-ma-giggy that would bring people together...even if it
kept them apart, spatially."
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:05:39 -0800 (PST)
From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com>
Subject: Re: DRUM N BASS N JUNGLE
On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
> That's exactly what I was told also.
oh goody! i wasn't imaginging it afterall...
hasta.
Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:12:41 -0500 (EST)
From: matthew.colonnese@yale.edu (Matthew Colonnese)
Subject: Re: Sax Wars
>Doug McKay wrote:
>
>THE SHAPE OF JAZZ TO COME (May 22, 1959) vs. GIANT STEPS (May
>4,1959).
>
> Coleman STOMPS Coltrane FLAT.
>
>
Yeah dude, I totally f**kin' agree! And it serves that fat god-obsessed
bastard right; that's what he gets for playing all those ballads. I mean,
isn't that what chicks listen to? I'm really glad I finally found someone
who belives in the linear order of artistic merit just like me. Maybe you
could send along a rank order list of all your albums to the list. I've
always been curious about who is the BEST at any given time point. I'm sure
given the rigid, well defined criteria it would be of great interest to us
all. What do you think of the Braxton/Brotzman fight?
Better hide that Coleman though, I think Cage, Stravinsky, and Ives
are comming to whop him one upside the head.
Keepin' it real in '59.
matt
- ------
"Finally, a thing-a-ma-giggy that would bring people together...even if it
kept them apart, spatially."
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:11:44 -0800 (PST)
From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com>
Subject: Re: DRUM N BASS N JUNGLE
On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, Matthew Colonnese wrote:
> Sounds good, except that what got the "drum n' bass" tag was the
> stuff the white kids made that stripped out the heavy heavy bass and
> raga rydmns.
ok, so now begs the question...
who can recommend some good
"old style" true blue jungle
that is supposedly the good stuff?
hasta.
Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:32:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: _Machine Gun_
On Fri, 13 Feb 1998 Dgasque@aol.com wrote:
> Let me warn you- _Machine Gun_ is about as extreme as an ensemble gets. If
> you can swallow this, everything else will be nectar in comparison...
While this certainly seems to be the most common reaction, I've actually
always found _Machine Gun_ much less difficult than some other large-scale
collective energy improvisations, particularly _Ascension_. _Machine Gun_
is timbrally much more abrasive, but a lot of it falls into kind of
grooving rhythms.
Whatever that's worth,
Chris Hamilton
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:50:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: DRUM N BASS N JUNGLE
On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, Matthew Colonnese wrote:
> So most commonly now Jungle refers
> to the more bass-heavy, vicarious thrill side of things, "drum n' bass" to
> bass striped, more cerebral side. Doesn't sound a like a whole lotta
> progress was made toward removing the inherent racism in the terms.
I've heard two different stories about the origin of the term 'jungle'. I
can't vouch for either of these myself, and they could both be true. The
first was in a Goldie "Invisible Jukebox" in _The Wire_, and was pretty
similar to Matthew's version: 'Jungle' was a term used by white dance fans
to describe black-oriented dance music. The second was in another
"Invisible Jukebox" with Adrian Sherwood, who claimed that one popular
early d'n'b record sampled a reggae record featuring a shoutout to
"Jungle", a colloquial name for some neighborhood in Kingston.
Chris Hamilton
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:55:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: Pain Killer cover album
On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, ia zha nah er vesen wrote:
> I think we should all petition Painkiller to put out a cover album...any
> suggestions for what would go on it?
The humor potential in this is probably limited by the fact that nothing
would seem very unlikely, but I'd enjoy hearing them do "The Girl from
Ipanema" and a medley of Morton Feldman's greatest hits.
Chris Hamilton
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:22:39 PST
From: "Silent Watcher" <silent_watcher@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re : Drum N Bass N Jungle
I read an interview with Style Scott, in which he stated that jungle
originated in Jamaica, but was a different sound from Jungle that we're
familiar with. Of course, he didn't say how it was different.
SW
For Sale/Want List and Laswell Discography at
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 01:05:28 EST
From: JonAbbey2@aol.com
Subject: circle maker/braxton
according to the Koch catalog, The Circle Maker (release date March 17) is a
two disc set. the first disc is performed by the Masada String Trio (Feldman,
Friedlander and Cohen) and the second disc is done by the Bar Kokhba Sextet
(the same three, joined by Baptista, Ribot and Baron). and like Bar Kokhba,
it's all Masada tunes.
anyone else feel like me that Zorn is slipping a little bit into what I like
to refer to as David Murray/Anthony Braxton syndrome? that is, he's spreading
himself just a bit too thin, and that if he nixed 10 percent of the projects
he works on, the other 90 percent would benefit. just a thought.
speaking of Braxton, according to the Braxton House web site, two of the
releases that AB is planning are a 10 CD box of his Ghost Trance Festival in
New York and a 12 CD box of the Ghost Trance Festival in Oakland. now I bet
that my Braxton collection can hang with anyone short of Graham Lock, but does
he really think he's going to sell more than about three of these?
anyone know if the Painkiller reissue on Earache is out yet in Europe?
Jon
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 03:17:58 -0300
From: "A. Bueno" <jabu@sminter.com.ar>
Subject: painkiller in europe
> anyone know if the Painkiller reissue on Earache is out yet in Europe?
>
> Jon
>
> -
Yes at least it was due to be released in England on 9th february .
One cd (guts of a virgin & buried secrets),with exclusive liner notes by
Zorn
A.Bueno
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 05:05:45 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Subject: Re: circle maker/braxton
JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote:
> according to the Koch catalog, The Circle Maker (release date March 17) is a
> two disc set. the first disc is performed by the Masada String Trio (Feldman,
> Friedlander and Cohen) and the second disc is done by the Bar Kokhba Sextet
> (the same three, joined by Baptista, Ribot and Baron). and like Bar Kokhba,
> it's all Masada tunes.
FWIW, the story at http://www.wzo.org.il/encountr/choni.htm is
probably the source of the album's otherwise mysterious title.
OTOH, I'm not clearly on why the character in the story is called the
Circle Maker, so it may be turtles all the way down :-)
- --
- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:30:02 -0000
From: Andy Pitchford <andrew@pitca.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Looking for recommendations
Hi I'm new to this group. I've got probably everything by Zorn up to Masada
4, then basically lost interest (in buying new stuff) at prices in the UK of
15+.
Just wondering anyone got any recommendations for the more recent releases
(Hey I'm sure its all great but there must be something that is
indispensable).
Thanks
Andy
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 10:30:26 +0100
From: mperlson@interport.net (Mark Perlson)
Subject: Thomas Chapin
Hello
I just wanted to let you all know that Thomas Chapin passed away in
Providence last Friday after a long battle with Leukemia.
We have lost an amazing musician and a wonderful person.
His music will live on.
Best wishes
Mark Perlson
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 14:50:31 -0800
From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET>
Subject: Re: circle maker/braxton
JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote:
> anyone else feel like me that Zorn is slipping a little bit into what I like
> to refer to as David Murray/Anthony Braxton syndrome? that is, he's spreading
> himself just a bit too thin, and that if he nixed 10 percent of the projects
> he works on, the other 90 percent would benefit. just a thought.
>
> speaking of Braxton, according to the Braxton House web site, two of the
> releases that AB is planning are a 10 CD box of his Ghost Trance Festival in
> New York and a 12 CD box of the Ghost Trance Festival in Oakland. now I bet
> that my Braxton collection can hang with anyone short of Graham Lock, but does
> he really think he's going to sell more than about three of these?
Don't know about you, but as a Braxton afficionado since around 1973,
and having lived through the years where the sight of a SINGLE Braxton
LP was enough to get the salivary glands going, I have trouble worrying
about too many of his releases being available. I have about 60 of his
LPs/CDs and probably pick up 5-8 a year nowadays (only possible because
they ARE so available) including filling in with older things I either
never got around to or couldn't find. Will I buy the Ghost Trance
multi-sets? Probably not (unless I have a lucky football-pool week!) but
I'm glad to have them out there. Will they turn out to be major,
indispensible works? Who knows? But imagine your argument used against a
painter: Concentrate more on masterworks and not so many of these little
sketches; I think one would lose a lot of great art. Personally, I have
no problem with hearing what may turn out to be 'sketches'.
I feel similarly about Zorn, even worse as he produces so many
fascinating musicians. With Murray, I think you have a point as he is
not nearly as multi-faceted or investigatory as the other two. Since
those wonderful 1988 DIW sessions, my general perception has been that
he's been largeky treadin water. Though he has released much excellent
music, with clunkers few and far between, I found I lost intense
interest a few years back, after I'd amassed 20 or so albums. At this
point, I'd have to be convinced that he's moving into unexplored
territory to invest further ear-time.
The "problem" is that so much previously inaccessible musical material
has become almost absurdly easy to find in the last 5-10 years. For
several years I would drool over print mentions of obscure Japanese and
European improvised music and out-rock, only rarely coming across the
actual CD. Then Other Music goes and opens (downtown NYC) and I'm
suddenly faced with dozens (if not hundreds) of items I'd love to hear,
but probably never will.
But I'm not complaining...just acting like Homer confronted with an
inaccesible doughnut.
Brian Olewnick
PS. To illustrate: Yesterday's pick-ups, all first rate:
Ground-Zero Plays Standards
Ellery Eskelin One Great Day...
Morton Feldman Neither
Evan Parker Toward the Margins
Fushitsusha Live 1990 (I think--it's the double CD, PSF-2-3;
does anyone have exact place/time of the
recording? Translations of the song titles
would be welcome, too.)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 17:12:15 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Subject: Re: circle maker/braxton
Brian Olewnick wrote:
> I have about 60 of his
> LPs/CDs and probably pick up 5-8 a year nowadays (only possible because
> they ARE so available) including filling in with older things I either
> never got around to or couldn't find. Will I buy the Ghost Trance
> multi-sets? Probably not (unless I have a lucky football-pool week!) but
> I'm glad to have them out there.
This gets me to thinking (probably because <plug> the new CD by my
ensemble, Comma, should be out in about a week </plug>): what's the
break-even point on CDs like this? Assuming that most of us get our
Tzadik and Braxton House CDs through stores or mail-order, generally
through a middleman, who often gets them from a distributor: how many
CDs do they have to sell before they make back their costs?
My guess is that there's just enough people who will buy close to
*everything* Zorn or Braxton put out (though the number plummets for
big things like the Ghost Trance sets or the Parachute Box, that may
be offset by the relative economy of the boxes being a single
high-priced object to ship and sell, rather than a bunch of little
ones) that it may make sense to keep putting out lotsa product.
(Anyone know how the Butch Morris Conduction box sold a/o/t the
single discs from it that were also released?)
Capitalism sux... but there isn't yet a better way that I know of to
afford to get things out to people...
Anyone? Bueller? Steve? :-)
- --
- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:47:46 -0500
From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net>
Subject: selling vinyl Big Gundown
I am selling an absolutely perfect condition vinyl copy of John Zorn's
'The Big Gundown' for $50 even (shipping and handling included). This is
a very rare Zorn collectors item that I will sell to the first person
who responds.
-Tom Pratt
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #233
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