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1998-02-12
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #231
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Friday, February 13 1998 Volume 02 : Number 231
In this issue:
-
Re: Alboth tour HELP!
Re: Next CD Reccomendation thread? - Sun Ra
Content-Type: text/plain
SUN RA
Re: Albert Ayler
Re: Next CD Reccomendation thread? - Sun Ra
Re:Albert Ayler
BucketHead/Brain Duo
Re: BucketHead/Brain Duo
Re: Rectangle Label (Was Re: akchote)
Wanted
drum n bass n jungle
Re: Albert Ayler
Shoe String Symphonettes
Re: Pain Killer cover album
Adventures with Coltrane
Leng Tch'e
Sax Wars
Re: Pain Killer "Marianne" cover
Re: Sax Wars
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:01:12 -0800 (PST)
From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com>
Subject: Re: Alboth tour HELP!
first Kaffe Matthews and now this.
is there any reason why these folks
aren't booking their "US tour"
to include dates in the WEST COAST?
hello? Bueller? Beuller?
grrrr.
hasta.
On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Manny wrote:
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Swiss industrial-jazz-prog-core quartet Alboth! is embarking on their
> first ever US tour. They have four CDs out and a fifth "Amor Fati" will be
> available at shows. Alboth!'s Peter Kraut has been written up in The Wire
> for his work with God's Kevin Martin and his organization of the Taktlos
> experimental festival in Bern and Zurich. If you are interested in a cross
> between Naked City, Einsturzende Neubauten, Ruins, and Shellac, then you
> will probably like Alboth!
> Check them out on the following dates:
>
> Feb 14 Philadelphia Astrocade
> with Stinking Lizaveta
> Feb 16 Columbus Sugar Shack
> Feb 17 Detroit Gold Dollar
> with Hearing Trumpet
> Feb 18 Chicago Empty Bottle
> Feb 19 Cleveland Speak in Tongues
> Feb 20 PIttsburgh Groovy
> Feb 21 Charlottesville VA Tokyo Rose
> Feb 22 Washington DC Black Cat
> Feb 23 Richmond Moondance
> Feb 25 Cambridge MA Middle East
> with Arab on Radar
> Feb 26 Providence Living Room
> Feb 28 New York City Context Studios
> with Elliott Sharp/Loren Mazzcane and David Nuss/Sabir Mateen & friends
> all tour inquiries to manny@dhp.com
Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:04:26 -0500 (EST)
From: matthew.colonnese@yale.edu (Matthew Colonnese)
Subject: Re: Next CD Reccomendation thread? - Sun Ra
Matt,
"Sound Of Joy"
"Outer Spaceways Inc."
"Sun Song"
"Futuristic Sounds Of Sun Ra"
Don't do it. I don't think any of these are what you are looking for. I
have _Futuristic Sounds_ and it about the worst Sun Ra thing I own (i'm a
huge fan, and I hate it). The Black Lion one (_outer spaceways_, I think)
is one of many late live shows from when he got quiet and conservative
again. Usually very good big band stuff, but not what it sounds like
you're looking for.
I know you limited us to these disks, but I gotta recomend you just bite
the bullet and spend the $5 more to get something decent. I really doubt
you're saving yourself any money by buying any of these second rate
releases. Personally, I've never heard any Sun Ra I thought reminded me of
Naked City. If you are using that description as a synonym for "chaotic"
though, let me recomend _Magic City_ which is massive, sprawling group
improvisation not unlike JC's _Asention_. Also very fucked is _Concert for
Komet Kahoutek_ on ESP. Which feature whopping doses of Sun Ra's space
chords on organ. I've heard _My Brother the Wind_ is in a similar vein,
but I have yet to get this.
Maybe _Sound of Joy_ and _Sun Song_ are not what I suspect, but I'm very
suspicious of these Delmarks. You don't do yourself any good spending a
little less for stuff you are much less likely to like.
- ------
"Finally, a thing-a-ma-giggy that would bring people together...even if it
kept them apart, spatially."
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:10:42 PST
From: "chris mcFall" <acrmproj@hotmail.com>
Subject: Content-Type: text/plain
Could someone please relay some information to me regarding the Masada
releases. I saw this tour in november 1996 at Boulder Colorado.
Unfortunately, I live in a rather remote area of Kansas, where any
chance of listening to these recordings is a virtual impossibility. I
would really like to know more about these releases aside from the
information on the Tzadik homepage. Someone give me an ovjective
opinion.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:38:45 -0800
From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us>
Subject: SUN RA
SUNRISE IN DIFFERENT DIMENSIONS on Hat Art
You can trust me on this one,
It'll knock your socks off.
s~Z
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:42:30 -0800
From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Albert Ayler
>Actually Zorn is a guest on two tracks on the Prima Materia tribute to
>Coltrane, "Peace on Earth." The Ayler tribute is "Bells" but Zorn is
>not on that one. They also have another Coltrane tribute
>"Meditations." All, of course, feature leader Rashied Ali, along with
>Allen Chase, Joe Gallant, William Parker, etc. High energy music.
>
>Alan Kayser
I can see the value of hearing these tributes live, but if I have a couple
of hours to listen to music, I'd never spend it listening to recordings of
Prima Materia when I could spend it listening to the philosophical gold
himself.
s~Z
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:51:37 -0500
From: Valkwitch <valk@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: Next CD Reccomendation thread? - Sun Ra
> Music Boulevard is having a 3 for $30, free delivery sale, and while
> browsing through the list for some "harder to find CDs" for the last few
> days (it's pretty damn long), I noticed they had 4 Sun Ra CD's in this
> sale. They are:
>
> "Sound Of Joy"
> "Outer Spaceways Inc."
> "Sun Song"
> "Futuristic Sounds Of Sun Ra"
>
i have "Sound of Joy" and "Singles" which are to me pretty
conservative/contemporary sounding(well actually about half of the
"Singles" was quite interesting sounding in a somewhat free/avant/improv
style...i also recently got "We Travel the Spaceways/Bad and Beautiful"
(Evidence) which was ok. But i also got "Cosmic Tones For Mental
Therapy/Art Forms Of Dimensions Tomorrow" which i like alot(and which i
suggest) "Cosmic Tones..." is described as more than "just trippy
weirdness", and it has alot of a echo/delay effect going on, a pretty
"outside/exploratory" sounding album as compared to much of his other
stuff. "Art Forms" is a mixed bag of both his "inside and outside"
material.
scott
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 23:48:50 -0500
From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com>
Subject: Re:Albert Ayler
<html>
<font size=3>I also recommend AS SERIOUS AS YOUR LIFE, one of the best
books about music I've ever read. Another good source for
information about Ayler is THE FREEDOM PRINCIPLE: JAZZ AFTER 1958 by John
Litweiler (who also did the recent bio on Ornette): there's a whole
chapter there about Ayler with some good background information about him
and an interesting analysis of his career.<br>
<br>
Jason</font>
<BR>
<br>
<div>Perfect Sound Forever</div>
<div>Warped perspectives on all types of music</div>
<div>perfect-sound@furious.com</div>
<a href="http://www.furious.com/perfect" EUDORA=AUTOURL>http://www.furious.com/perfect</a>
</html>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 23:49:59 EST
From: FUNKADELlC@aol.com
Subject: BucketHead/Brain Duo
In a message dated 98-02-12 20:50:07 EST, you write:
<< Can someone describe "Pieces" in comparison to other Buckethead/Praxis
releases? >>
Pieces is a drum and bass <jungle is what we call it in LA> venture from the
half chicken man and Brain... as in comparison to other Buckethead projects...
thats not really fair..... when i taked to him after the show he said it best:
"Every project is different, man"
- -cory sklar
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:30:13 PST
From: "Silent Watcher" <silent_watcher@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: BucketHead/Brain Duo
>Pieces is a drum and bass <jungle is what we call it in LA>
I've been told there's a difference between drum 'n' bass and jungle,
but have failed to figure out how people define each. Any help out
there?
sw
want/for sale list and Laswell discography at
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 07:32:58 +0100
From: Stephane Vuilleumier <svuilleu@micro.biol.ethz.ch>
Subject: Re: Rectangle Label (Was Re: akchote)
The two last Rectangle I know of are a Workshop of Lyon LP
and, probably of more interest to this list, a Chadbourne/Bailey
10". I also saw an ad for a Straub/Huillet LP, but no clue what this would
be since the two are a "famous" french experimental film-maker couple...
There is also a recent Plunderphonics-type 7" sampler of all=20
records so far (discounting the 2 first above, and I think also the
Frith/Akchote 10"). Also a slightly pornographic 7" french songs which is=20
just plain stupid and amateur in my opinion.
The Frith/Akchote is the Rectangle release I listen to most together
with the Morceaux choisis Alexander mentioned. The "Morceaux choisis" covers
are about ten times better than the Gainsbourg tribute on Tzadik which
in my opinion most oftenwere mere carbon copies and, with the exception of=
=20
the cover by Young God singer Franz Treichler,lacked the subversive spirit,
inventiveness, and humour of the original songs entirely.=20
Rectangle releases are numbered with capital letters, one or two
were skipped, and they must be at L or P (I can check).
There's also a solo Akchote LP, Pictures, which is partly a rerelease
of his first album. I think.
Stephane
At 12:04 12.02.98 -0800, Radio Khartoum wrote:
>Since Patrice mentioned the Rectangle label, I thought this might be a good
>chance to ask what else they have put out. One of my favorite records of
>late has been an LP on that label by the Recyclers (entitled Morceaux
>Chosis). It's all covers of classic French pop/variet=E9 music (Brel,
>Gainsbourg, etc... and who the heck is Polyphonic Size?), and features
>guest vocals by a couple of my favorite French singers (Ignatus & Katerine)
>as well as Sasha Andr=E8s (never heard of) and the actress Ir=E8ne Jacob=
(not
>bad, in fact).
>
>Oh, yes, and the recyclers happen to be Beno=EEt Delbecq (keys, inc.=
prepared
>piano), No=EBl Akchot=E9 (guitars and other stringed things), and Steve
>Arg=FCelles (percussions, etc). A very fine record in my book, which does=
a
>nice job of straddling the line between pop and experiment. Of course, a
>few of the tracks are messed up enough to annoy off my more pop-orriented
>friends.
>
>merci,
>
>Alexander
>
>.Radio Khartoum. http://www.algonet.se/~elegans/radiok/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 23:33:21 -0700 MST
From: sasanborn@micron.com
Subject: Wanted
Hello there. Does anybody have the following that you could possibly
tape for me, I can make a tape for you in exchange. Here's what I'm
interested in hearing :
Fushitsusha-Purple Trap, Allegorical Misunderstanding or The Caution
Appears
Iannis Xenakis- La Legende D'er or any other starting point for his
works.
Masayuki Takayanagi/New Direction Unit- Live Independance
Dr. Nerve- anything
Univers Zero- Heresies
Magma - anything
If you'd like to email me in private, here's my address
sasanborn@micron.com
Hope to hear from someone.
Oh yeah, I'd also love to hear that new Buckethead disc as well as the
Deathcube K platter. Til the future dissolves in silence.....Steve
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:43:55 +1100
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: drum n bass n jungle
> I've been told there's a difference between drum 'n' bass and jungle,
> but have failed to figure out how people define each. Any help out
> there?
I find it really quite amusing when those people who make this style on a
little machine are interviewed, and they say things like "well, my style is
really diverse, it ranges from drum 'n' bass to jungle to trip hop", I feel
like killing them. In my book, diverse at the very least requires two
_different_ styles. Of course, on this list, diverse means something more
along the lines of 50 different styles.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 02:10:00 EST
From: Dgasque@aol.com
Subject: Re: Albert Ayler
In a message dated 98-02-12 04:58:01 EST, you write:
<< I *will* be buying more Ayler. Peter Brotzman's MACHINE GUN ('68) is also
on my list, as is David Murray's MING ('80) and THE HILL ('86). >>
Let me warn you- _Machine Gun_ is about as extreme as an ensemble gets. If
you can swallow this, everything else will be nectar in comparison...
=dgasque=
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:19:27 +1100
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: Shoe String Symphonettes
I've just noticed something kind of strange in the booklet of Marc Ribot's
"Shoe String Symphonettes". The ones I've been listening to the most
recently have been from the unfinished project (tracks 7, 8, 10 and 11).
Reading the credits it seems that these are the only tracks not featuring
Ribot himself. Yet track 10 starts with a stunning acoustic guitar
solo...or so I thought, if I'm wrong that's one strange sounding cello.
Anyone else notice this?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 02:50:35 -0500 (EST)
From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: Pain Killer cover album
> > > On the first CD there's a bonus-track : Marianne, featuring Makigami
> Koichi
> > > (vocals) and Haino Keiji (guitar).
> >
> > is it a cover of the classic Leonard Cohen song? :)
>
> What I have heard is that the song "Marianne" is originally
> by the 60s Japanese garage band, The Jacks.
I think we should all petition Painkiller to put out a cover album...any
suggestions for what would go on it?
-jascha
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 04:10:19
From: "Doug McKay" <mckay003@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: Adventures with Coltrane
I found someone to lend me GIANT STEPS and A LOVE SUPREME.
GIANT STEPS: Ding-dinga-ding-dinga-ding on the ride. No drum fills, just
snare accents, like sometimes tripping over stones. Do this fast. High-hat
on two and four. You're in a swing band but with only four guys and no
trumpet. Repeat for the next song but go a little slower. When the bass
does its solo, switch to the high-hat and go ding-dinga-ding-dinga-ding and
lighten up on the snare. Now it's "Countdown" so here's your chance. Go!
Then play ding-dinga-ding-dinga-ding really really fast so the sax can hit
all the notes. Whew. How about another song? Ding-dinga-ding-dinga-ding.
Good. Now here's another. Ready with the high-hat? Alright. Let's swing.
Ding-dinga-ding-dinga-ding. Time for a change. Bring out the brushes, this
one's romantic. You know the routine. Follow the bass during the intro of
the theme, then just swish around on the snare for the rest. Accent on one
and three. To give it a bit of a slow romantic dance feel you can move the
accent to two and four for a short time if you like. Okay. One more. Back
to the quick step. Fast now! Ding-dinga-ding-dinga-ding. It's the last song
so you might want to put in a couple fills here. In fact, I'll give you
some space. Might as well use your toms since you brought 'em along. It's
your final chance.
[Somebody shoot that fucking drummer.]
A LOVE SUPREME: You're in Cuba but we're not. The piano player can't quite
see the keys and doesn't really believe he's hitting them, so he'll try
over and over. I like that phrase "A love supreme." It's meaingful, you
know? This is about God so be quiet and listen. Let's meditate a while on
the bass. Come back from Cuba now. Listen a little more to the sax on this
one. Break up the rhythm but pay attention. You're doing good. It sounds
like you're actually hearing the other players now. Hey! I can scream with
this sax! Feels good, man. Sure beats endless arpeggios. Here's the final
movement. You get it started. Sounds like you can play. Glad to have you
with us. Yeah! Go! Okay, here we all come. Keep it driving. Don't you dare
go ding-dinga-ding. Thank you Elvin. You're a good man. You got some
variety in you. I can even here some bass drum work there. And the snare
work. Great stuff. I am going to WAIL here so let's get some movement. Yes.
Yes. Yes! Drive me, drive me. Let's hit the damn wall here and bust
through. Go you fucker! Go! Yeah, yeah! Shit! Man ... that was fine. Whew!
Let's let the bass play alone for a while. It's sort of a fast come down,
but orgasms can be like that, you know. Got a tympani? Let's use it. Gives
it a little symphonic feel. Noble-like if you know what I mean. I'm not
going to play long lyrical notes here. Not like I was doing back in '59. So
it might sound like I don't have good phrasing here like back then, but so
what. I'm all choked up, you know? It's a little long? Hey. It's about God.
So shut up. This is how I feel. Keep rolling around on those tymps. This is
going to be some powerful shit. It's about God, so it's gotta be. Right?
Doug McKay - Drummer
In Minnesota
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:22:20 +1100
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: Leng Tch'e
How does Leng Tch'e (the piece of music) work again? ie is it notated or
what? and if so, how?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 05:01:12
From: "Doug McKay" <mckay003@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: Sax Wars
THE SHAPE OF JAZZ TO COME (May 22, 1959) vs. GIANT STEPS (May 4,1959).
Coleman STOMPS Coltrane FLAT.
It's hard to believe these were recorded 18 days apart.
Doug McKay
In Minnesota
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:15:52 +0800
From: Jan-Wen Lu <janwenlu@top2.ficnet.net.tw>
Subject: Re: Pain Killer "Marianne" cover
> > > On the first CD there's a bonus-track : Marianne, featuring
> Makigami
> Koichi
> > > (vocals) and Haino Keiji (guitar).
> >
> > is it a cover of the classic Leonard Cohen song? :)
>
> What I have heard is that the song "Marianne" is originally
> by the 60s Japanese garage band, The Jacks.
The Painkiller song "Marianne" was taken from the brilliant "Koroshi no
Blues" CD by Makigami Koichi(might be out-of-print now!!). Makigami
covers Japanese old pop songs with new arrangements by a lot of
Japanese/American avant-garde/experimental musicians. Produced by John
Zorn.
For those who already have "Koroshi no Blues", "Buried Secrets", "Guts
of a Virgin" & Japanese edition of "Execution Ground", I think you don't
have to buy the Painkiller 4 CD box set.
Jan-Wen Lu
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:30:09 -0500
From: Alan E Kayser <aek1@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Sax Wars
Doug McKay wrote:
> THE SHAPE OF JAZZ TO COME (May 22, 1959) vs. GIANT STEPS (May 4,1959).
>
> Coleman STOMPS Coltrane FLAT.
>
> It's hard to believe these were recorded 18 days apart.
>
> Doug McKay
> In Minnesota
What's really hard to believe is that between May 22, 1959, and March
27, 1961, Ornette and company recorded all the music heard on "Beauty is
a Rare Thing." Coltrane recorded with Don Cherry in June of 1960, but
Cherry is the more adventurous of the two. The larger works with Dolphy
on board were still a year off. The breakthrough Village Vanguard dates
were done in November of 1961. The point being that Coleman had
completed his essay while Coltrane was still writing the first
sentence. That in no way lessens the greatness of Coltrane, just that
Coleman had an obvious influence on Trane's music if not his style.
Alan Kayser
>
>
> -
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #231
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