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1998-02-12
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #230
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Thursday, February 12 1998 Volume 02 : Number 230
In this issue:
-
zines/web resources
Albert Ayler
Feldman
Re: Albert Ayler
Re: Feldman
Rectangle Label (Was Re: akchote)
Re: Feldman
Re: Feldman
Re: Feldman
Re: Feldman
Re: Feldman
Re: Feldman
Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #229
Re:Albert Ayler
Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #229
Re:Albert Ayler (and books, too!)
Next CD Reccomendation thread? - Sun Ra
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:18:32 PST
From: "Joe the Shmoo" <c123018@hotmail.com>
Subject: zines/web resources
Looking for really cool internet/web music/art/lit oriented sites.
Please assume i already know about the most common resources: the ones I
could find myself in five minutes flat (Yahoo, etc) I've probably
followed; but who knows? I get lost in links, it's terrible. I prefer
intelligent writing, not just a "fanzine". Also, 2 things:
1. I am not a fan(atic). I like to enthuse but I'm trying to
temper that with an intelligent research-mentality. have fun,
culture-mulch, but follow leads...which leads me to #2...
2.I am a fanatic for all things Corbett. John Corbett's writing has
been topically interesting and damned well-written and I want more.
So, till the second book comes out....where the hell are the
non DOWNBEAT papers/articles? I cannot find the OCTOBER, NEW
ART EXAMINER, etc stuff. Did find a book on Chicago Arts with
an chapter by JC on the history of the Chicago avant-garde music
scene. I would appreciate help with this, as well as pointers
to other writers who function on such a highly multidisciplinary
level.
Thanks a heep! (You guys are the best.)
KSH
P.s. You can e-mail me directly, unless the resulting thread would be
helpful to community.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:56:38
From: "Doug McKay" <mckay003@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: Albert Ayler
Wow! Looks like I hit a diamond mine! Thanks for all the suggestions. Don't
hesitate to tell me more if you get the urge.
No-one mentioned Prima Materia yet. I came across their name on the web
last night while doing a web search (through Excite) on Alber Ayler. I'd
never heard of them, but seeing that they're a Knitting Factory band I
suppose everyone else here has - plus they have an album out now with Zorn
as "special guest" and it's a tribute to Ayler. Makes sense about Zorn.
Ayler reminds me of him.
Also from that same search I found a large biography someone's written on
Ayler. He referred to the book AS SERIOUS AS YOUR LIFE a lot in what I
had time to read of it. I ordered that book about the same time I joined
this list, having seen it refered to in the archives when I first found you
guys. Anyway, the book isn't here yet. I hope it's still in print.
By the way, another comment on THE SHAPE OF JAZZ TO COME. Last night after
sending off my post on Ayler I listened to Ornette's album again, just
sitting there in the dark, kinda tired, just waiting to head to bed but
wanting to listen some more. I listened to Zorn's version of "Chronology",
then went to the original, then started the CD over. And it struck me
somewhere in "Eventually" : "There is something sublime about this music."
The thought just hung there as I listened to it. (Maybe it was just the
Bourbon talking.) I like how Cherry, when he comes into his solo starts by
quoting Ornette's last phrase. It links them in a nice way. Like a
conversation.
One more thing about Ayler. It's too bad he wasn't recorded better on
SPIRITUAL UNITY. Think of how much more powerful this album would be if it
was recorded as well as OUT TO LUNCH with everything in front, like you're
sitting in with the band. You can hardly hear Sunny Murray's drumming. It
sounds like a wash of cymbal work and not much else.
Oh. Yes, there *is* that funny sounding skip/break about 2 minutes into
"The Wizard" on my disk too. (Someone asked.) So it must be in the transfer
or the recording somehow.
Listening to "Peace" at the moment.
Doug McKay
In Minnesota
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:18:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Feldman
sorry that this is so off-topic, but could anyone give me
recommendations for the morton feldman discs on hat art?
b
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:40:33 -0500
From: Alan E Kayser <aek1@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Albert Ayler
Doug McKay wrote:
> Wow! Looks like I hit a diamond mine! Thanks for all the suggestions.
> Don't
> hesitate to tell me more if you get the urge.
>
> No-one mentioned Prima Materia yet. I came across their name on the
> web
> last night while doing a web search (through Excite) on Alber Ayler.
> I'd
> never heard of them, but seeing that they're a Knitting Factory band I
>
> suppose everyone else here has - plus they have an album out now with
> Zorn
> as "special guest" and it's a tribute to Ayler.
Actually Zorn is a guest on two tracks on the Prima Materia tribute to
Coltrane, "Peace on Earth." The Ayler tribute is "Bells" but Zorn is
not on that one. They also have another Coltrane tribute
"Meditations." All, of course, feature leader Rashied Ali, along with
Allen Chase, Joe Gallant, William Parker, etc. High energy music.
Alan Kayser
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:25:48 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Feldman
On Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:18:49 -0500 (EST) Brent Burton wrote:
>
> sorry that this is so off-topic, but could anyone give me
> recommendations for the morton feldman discs on hat art?
I don't know many of them, but if they are as good as CRIPPLED SYMMETRIES,
you should jump on!
FOR SAMUEL BECKETT is a fantastic and haunting composition, but I don't know
the version on Hat ART).
BTW, anybody checked both FOR PHILIP GUSTON (on Hat ART and Bridge)? Really
strange that both came out at about the same time.
Also, any opinion on the new piece about Beckett just released on Hat ART?
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:04:54 -0800
From: xander@sirius.com
Subject: Rectangle Label (Was Re: akchote)
Since Patrice mentioned the Rectangle label, I thought this might be a good
chance to ask what else they have put out. One of my favorite records of
late has been an LP on that label by the Recyclers (entitled Morceaux
Chosis). It's all covers of classic French pop/variet=E9 music (Brel,
Gainsbourg, etc... and who the heck is Polyphonic Size?), and features
guest vocals by a couple of my favorite French singers (Ignatus & Katerine)
as well as Sasha Andr=E8s (never heard of) and the actress Ir=E8ne Jacob (no=
t
bad, in fact).
Oh, yes, and the recyclers happen to be Beno=EEt Delbecq (keys, inc. prepare=
d
piano), No=EBl Akchot=E9 (guitars and other stringed things), and Steve
Arg=FCelles (percussions, etc). A very fine record in my book, which does a
nice job of straddling the line between pop and experiment. Of course, a
few of the tracks are messed up enough to annoy off my more pop-orriented
friends.
merci,
Alexander
=2ERadio Khartoum. http://www.algonet.se/~elegans/radiok/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:19:26 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Subject: Re: Feldman
On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
> I don't know many of them, but if they are as good as CRIPPLED
> SYMMETRIES, you should jump on!
Yes, "Why Patterns/Crippled Symmetry" is a must-get.
> BTW, anybody checked both FOR PHILIP GUSTON (on Hat ART and Bridge)? Really
> strange that both came out at about the same time.
Chris Villar's excellent Feldman discography (at
http://www.cnvill.demon.co.uk/mfcds.htm ) lists the Hat ART as 1992 and
the Bridge as 1997. I have the Bridge, but have only gotten halfway
through it -- hard to find 4+ uninterrupted hours to listen to anything.
> Also, any opinion on the new piece about Beckett just released on Hat ART?
"Neither" is quite good, though not what I had expected. The vocal writing
is consistently up at the top of the soprano's range, so the words can't
be understood. It's very much in line with this "[instrument] and
Orchestra" pieces written at about the same time; sorta like a denser
version of "For Samuel Beckett" with a soprano soloist above it. I don't
think I'll be listening to it as much as I listen to, say, "The Viola in
my Life", but it's worth getting if you can find it. (Actually some of the
descriptions of Braxton's Ghost Trance music that I've seen here could
equally serve as descriptions of later Feldman pieces, which makes me
quite eager to hear the Braxton works -- any of the many of you who hated
them want to sell your copies?)
-
- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:44:00 -0700
From: john shiurba <shiurba@sfo.com>
Subject: Re: Feldman
> BTW, anybody checked both FOR PHILIP GUSTON (on Hat ART and Bridge)? Really
> strange that both came out at about the same time.
the HatArt set came out many years ago, actually. 92 I think. It's fantastic, although
you'll have to quit your job to listen to the whole thing in one sitting with any
frequency.
>
> Also, any opinion on the new piece about Beckett just released on Hat ART?
not sure what you mean by this-- there's a piece called "For Samuel Beckett" of which
there are several available recordings (I have and love the SF Contemporary Music
Players version on newport Classics). There's a piece called "Words and Music" with
spoken text written by Beckett and music by Feldman, which is available on
Montaigne, and there's a new "opera" called "Neither" with text (sung this time) by
Beckett and music by Feldman. This just came out on hat(now)Art, and (after only one
listen, today) it is incredible.
- --
shiurba@sfo.com
http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:49:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Re: Feldman
On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Joseph S. Zitt wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
> > I don't know many of them, but if they are as good as CRIPPLED
> > SYMMETRIES, you should jump on!
>
> Yes, "Why Patterns/Crippled Symmetry" is a must-get.
what's the instrumentation like for this piece? does it have vocals?
b
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:51:26 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Subject: Re: Feldman
On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Brent Burton wrote:
> > Yes, "Why Patterns/Crippled Symmetry" is a must-get.
>
> what's the instrumentation like for this piece? does it have vocals?
"Why Patterns" (which is also on a New Albion CD with Rothko Chapel
(although I greatly prefer the Rothko Chapel on the old Columbia/Odyssey
label)) is for flute, piano, and percussion, as is "Crippled Symmetry".
- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:10:23 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Feldman
On Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:51:26 -0600 (CST) "Joseph S. Zitt" wrote:
>
> On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Brent Burton wrote:
>
> > > Yes, "Why Patterns/Crippled Symmetry" is a must-get.
> >
> > what's the instrumentation like for this piece? does it have vocals?
>
> "Why Patterns" (which is also on a New Albion CD with Rothko Chapel
> (although I greatly prefer the Rothko Chapel on the old Columbia/Odyssey
> label)) is for flute, piano, and percussion, as is "Crippled Symmetry".
Which is also the instrumentation for FOR PHILIP GUSTON!
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:27:25 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Subject: Re: Feldman
On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
> > "Why Patterns" (which is also on a New Albion CD with Rothko Chapel
> > (although I greatly prefer the Rothko Chapel on the old Columbia/Odyssey
> > label)) is for flute, piano, and percussion, as is "Crippled Symmetry".
>
> Which is also the instrumentation for FOR PHILIP GUSTON!
Yup, and if memory serves, the same trio (Stone, Jarvinen, and ??) are in
the New Albion "Why Patterns" and the Bridge "For Philip Guston". The Hat
Art recordings are with the group for whom Feldman
wrote them, including Eberhard Blum. (I'm at work and the CDs are at
home, so I'm unclear on the details.)
- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:50:02 EST
From: FUNKADELlC@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #229
In a message dated 98-02-12 13:28:27 EST, you write:
<< Quiet.
Surprisingly calm set, a lot of solo guitar stuff. The promo pack looks
like they're really pushing this whole "guitar genius" thing. I expect to
see some Guitar Player magazine stuff out of this. Hmmm. A wonderful set
though. Quite sparse without drifting too much into ambient. (not to say
that would be bad)
label: CyberOctave
street date: 3/24/98
Buckethead: guitar, basses
Brain: drums, loops
DJ Disc: (DJing I guess) on 3 tracks
Bill Laswell: bass on 1 track (which he produces)
Terry Untalon: cello, viola on 2 tracks.
13 tracks in all.
Produced by Buckethead & Xtrack (Except the Laswell track)
I see in the promo material something I've not heard of: he released
material under an anagram name: Death Cube K. Can anyone tell me what this
is like or what label it's on?
Thanks >>
...yeah... when GIANT ROBOT 2 came to LA for 2 nights... the second night was
an acoustic show at a really small guitar shop.... he played most of the songs
from COLMA... then his "hits" the Praxis song, Giant Robot and WELCOME TO
BUCKETHEADLAND... the the band left and he played some weird shit with an
asian violin player.... it was inspireing....
.....DEATH CUBE K is the bomb ass dark horror ambient.. he's the anti-matter
Buckethead <death cube K is an anagram for buckethead> i beleive its on AXIOM
and i suggest any trippers to get it... also the BRAIN/BUCKETHEAD duo Pieces
is DA SHIT!
- -Cory Sklar
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:25:34 -0500
From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net>
Subject: Re:Albert Ayler
Doug McKay wrote:
>
>
> Also from that same search I found a large biography someone's written on
> Ayler. He referred to the book AS SERIOUS AS YOUR LIFE a lot in what I
> had time to read of it. I ordered that book about the same time I joined
> this list, having seen it refered to in the archives when I first found you
> guys. Anyway, the book isn't here yet. I hope it's still in print.
The book is "As serious As Your Life" by Valerie Wilmer. It's not about
Ayler per se, it covers the whole NY free Jazz Black Music Thing of the
1960's. Ayler, Coltrane, Cherry, Pharoah, even Sonny Sharrock! some
great photo's too.
Rich
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:48:07 +1100
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #229
> .....DEATH CUBE K is the bomb ass dark horror ambient.. he's the
anti-matter
> Buckethead <death cube K is an anagram for buckethead> i beleive its on
AXIOM
> and i suggest any trippers to get it... also the BRAIN/BUCKETHEAD duo
Pieces
> is DA SHIT!
Can someone describe "Pieces" in comparison to other Buckethead/Praxis
releases?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:02:57 PST
From: "Joe the Shmoo" <c123018@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re:Albert Ayler (and books, too!)
>The book is "As serious As Your Life" by Valerie Wilmer. It's not about
>Ayler per se, it covers the whole NY free Jazz Black Music Thing of the
>1960's. Ayler, Coltrane, Cherry, Pharoah, even Sonny Sharrock! some
>great photo's too.
>
>Rich
Some more books that are excellent (and deal with creative music in one
way or another):
EXTENDED PLAY (John Corbett) Duke Press simply great
FORCES IN MOTION (Graham Lock) Da Capo you don't need to be a
Braxton fan to enjoy the celebration of creativity
All Coltrane Bios are tepid: avoid the Cole bio at all costs, but
CHASIN THE TRANE is pretty good, look out for the (long time)
forthcoming Francis Davis Coltrane bio
THE MUSIC OF KARLHEINZ STOCKHAUSEN (Robin maconie)
Geez, I'll think of more in time
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 98 20:42:00 PST
From: Matt Walsh <MATTW@smginc.com>
Subject: Next CD Reccomendation thread? - Sun Ra
Well, now that the John Coltrane thread has just about completed
(actually, I'm behind in my reading, so it may have been over a while
ago), I have a feeling I'm about to start a new one...
Please respond privately unless you think it is relevant to reply to the
list and start another long thread of album reccomendations...
Music Boulevard is having a 3 for $30, free delivery sale, and while
browsing through the list for some "harder to find CDs" for the last few
days (it's pretty damn long), I noticed they had 4 Sun Ra CD's in this
sale. They are:
"Sound Of Joy"
"Outer Spaceways Inc."
"Sun Song"
"Futuristic Sounds Of Sun Ra"
My first experience with Sun Ra was on a special about Saturday Night
Live maybe 4 or so years ago, they played bits of some of the musical
guests that have played there. I was in shock when they showed Sun Ra,
some of the most insane, intense music I've ever heard, and very Zorn-ish
to me in the few seconds they played him. I bought "Atlantis" (which
seems to be considered one of his best) and wasn't too impressed with it
- that was years ago, so maybe I need to listen to it again. I've been
hesitant on buying any more Sun Ra because of this, and haven't been able
to find anything of his used (probably a REALLY good sign), but with this
sale I thought I'd try once again to search for the Sun Ra that blew me
away years ago.
Anyway, my question is, what CD out of the above 4 does anyone reccommend
most? Keep in mind that I was knocked off my feet by the chaotic few
seconds I had heard, so if he has different periods (as most good
musicians do), then I would be looking to lean more towards this.
Reminded me a lot of Naked City at the time. If anyone is interested,
also in the sale is a bunch of Coltrane CD's (including the most
reccomended "A Love Supreme"), a bunch of Coleman and Davis, and
unfortunately no Zorn...
If you can give me a "best of the above 4", it would be appreciated. If
you have any other Sun Ra reccomendations, let me know, so I'll know
where to go next after I get hooked. My apologies if this is considered
off-topic and for the possible huge thread that I might have just
started.
Thanks,
Matt Walsh
- unofficial Zorn-list member according to Patrice - since my Peter
Brotzmann "Machine Gun" CD that I ordered STILL has not come in :(
mattw@smginc.com
Currently listening to: Pro-Pain - "Foul Taste Of Freedom"
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #230
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