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v02.n215
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1998-01-25
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #215
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Monday, January 26 1998 Volume 02 : Number 215
In this issue:
-
Re: Material in the Punk era
Re: Zorn in the Punk era
Re: Dolphy [was Re: COLTRANE]
PBS / Burns doc. about jazz?
Re: Dolphy [was Re: COLTRANE]
Re: Dolphy [was Re: COLTRANE]
Re: Material in the Punk era
FWD:Want List
Laswell Newsgroup?
Re: My latest purchases
Re: Dolphy [was Re: COLTRANE]
Cujo - "Adventures in Foam"
Re: Cujo - "Adventures in Foam"
Rough Assemblage
videos....film and music..?
SWANS (was: Re: My latest purchases)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 13:00:14 -0500
From: Sean Terwilliger <seanter@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Material in the Punk era
Caleb Deupree wrote:
>
> At 09:43 AM 1/24/98 -0500, Rich Williams wrote:
>
> > I remember a Material concert at the Kitchen in 1981. Material
> >at that time, was popular in the punk clubs, and their early EP's were
> >somewhat in that vein, but when the gig turned out to be
> >Laswell, Zorn, Sharrock,Frith,Derek Bailey, and Charles Noyes doing free
> >improvs, they managed to disperse the audience in pretty short order.
>
> There's a complete live Material concert on DIW-389 that has a similar
> lineup, Laswell, Beinhorn, Frith, Noyes, David Moss, and Mark Miller,
> recorded at Soundscape on October 16, 1981, sounding much like free improv.
> An interesting footnote to the whole Material experience, very percussion
> heavy and not especially well recorded.
>
> --
> Caleb Deupree
> cdeupree@interagp.com
> cdeupree@erinet.com
>
> Computers are useless; they can only give you answers
> -- Pablo Picasso
>
> -
There's also the 'Improvised Music, NY 1981' cd on Mu. That's
essentially a Material CD.
Laswell
Sharrock
Bailey
Frith
Zorn
Noyes.
Not sure if you can get it any more as Mu seems to no linger be in
existance.
- -Sean
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 13:08:04 -0500
From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com>
Subject: Re: Zorn in the Punk era
Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net> sez:
>The first cross pollination between the free improv and punk
>scenes that I remember was the original Golden Palomino's.which in turn
>spawned The Locus Solus Trio of Zorn, Lindsay and Fier. This band,
>played most of
>their concerts at punk rock clubs. Of course, Arto had been in DNA and
>Anton had been in The Feelies and Lounge Lizards, but that didn't cut
>much with audiences.
Great discussion! Arto played in the Lounge Lizards also while Anton was
there. As for the Golden Palominos, there was also Bill Laswell and Prime
Time's Jamaaladeen Tacuma playing with them- what an amazing band that was.
Just to make things confusing, The Lounge Lizards were originally going to
be called the Golden Palominos. Your point about free improv and punk
coming together here is dead on- that was really ground zero for the whole
meeting of these styles. I'm sure a lot of people were thrown off by the
whole thing then and I would have loved to see that.
> The punk scene was, to a certain extent, about fashion, and
>these guys were NOT fashionable.
Lots of arguments to be made here but you're right in a sense- that scene
(like any other) had more than its share of poseurs.
Jason
Perfect Sound Forever
Warped perspectives on all types of music
perfect-sound@furious.com
http://www.furious.com/perfect
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 12:11:59
From: Jesse Simon <umsimo10@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: Dolphy [was Re: COLTRANE]
At 02:48 AM 1/24/98 -0500, Steve Smith wrote:
> IIRC Dolphy is *not* on "Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus."
My mistake. Most of my CDs and records are in boxes due to an impending
move, so I couldn't actually check out the personelle on Mingus Mingus etc.
I thought I remembered Dolphy doing the clap-solo on Better Get it in Your
Soul, but I can't be certain.
I am pretty sure that Dolphy plays on Mingus' Town Hall Concert album. In
Epitaph Part I, there's that section where the saxophone and bass have a
bit of dialogue and I've always thought that was Dolphy. But I could be wrong.
Jesse
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:13:13 -0700
From: tricky88@earthlink.net
Subject: PBS / Burns doc. about jazz?
Todd Furey worte:
>There will be in the coming years, I think 2000, is the slated date for a
>PBS special. The same director who did the civil war and baseball
>documentaries is working on a ten part series of jazz history. I was told
>it would be a decade by decade approach, the first episode must stretch
>farther into the previous century though.
Is this true? I hope not. While I liked a bit of the Civil War
documentary, I found it over-rated. I thought the baseball one was
tedious and the Lewis & Clark downright unwatchable. I know he is
finishing up one on architecture that may or may not be mostly about
Frank Lloyd Wright. The Civil War may be slightly interesting, what
(very) little interest baseball held for me was sucked right out by Ken
Burns' doc. and I will now never look more into the lives and travels of
Lewis & Clark... But Wright was the MAN, and if Ken Burns makes his
life and work as boring as everything else he has done it will be a
travesty.
Now (back to the subject) JAZZ!? Whoever did the sprawling rock one at
least was interesting (I know Robert Palmer played a fairly big part in
it, but probably won't be as active in the jazz series what with his new
lighter schedule and all) I pray it is the Rock guy and not Ken Burns.
Either way, it is something that if done well could be really
illuminating; I wonder how much video footage there is of guys like
Miles (earlier Miles; before he was covered in sequins and shades like a
a cross between Judge Dredd and Liberace) Mingus, Coltrane... I bet a
lot; but Ken Burns will probably just pan around photos from old LPs and
not even gather any MOVING footage. Or the earlier guys; Ellington and
Basie who I believe appeared in a lot of feature films of their day
playing their music.
Icertainly haven't seen much about them though; which is why a
sprawling doc would be great; Seems like something I would rather let
the big boys at BBC handle though; they always do a much better job it
seems than us surface-scratchin' Americans. I'd also be very
interested (naturally) in seeing how a documentarian covering the full
scope of jazz would treat (or mistreat, or completely ignore) John
Zorn. In case there are any other doc. buffs out there, there is an
Austrian film from 1993 about the life of James Ellroy playing in L.A.
in a couple of months. And Frederick Weissmann's latest - Public
Housing - has been on PBS in the past month or so.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 15:24:02 -0500
From: acapps@usit.net (ashley capps)
Subject: Re: Dolphy [was Re: COLTRANE]
>At 02:48 AM 1/24/98 -0500, Steve Smith wrote:
>> IIRC Dolphy is *not* on "Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus."
>My mistake. Most of my CDs and records are in boxes due to an impending
>move, so I couldn't actually check out the personelle on Mingus Mingus etc.
>I thought I remembered Dolphy doing the clap-solo on Better Get it in Your
>Soul, but I can't be certain.
>
>I am pretty sure that Dolphy plays on Mingus' Town Hall Concert album. In
>Epitaph Part I, there's that section where the saxophone and bass have a
>bit of dialogue and I've always thought that was Dolphy. But I could be wrong.
>
>Jesse
Actually, Jesse, your memory is pretty good and Steve's mistaken. Dolphy is
most definitely on MINGUS MINGUS MINGUS MINGUS MINGUS on all but 2 of the 7
original tracks, plus he appears on the CDs bonus track.
Ashley
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 08:42:32 +1100
From: Paul Jacobson <pauljay@webtime.com.au>
Subject: Re: Dolphy [was Re: COLTRANE]
Hi, I checked out the discography in the back of Brian Priestley's "Mingus:
A Critical Biography" (Paladin Books 1985) and the following discs have
Dolphy as a sideman with Mingus. I have a Dolphy discography that list's
private recordings etc made of nearly every concert of Mingus' 1964
European, some of which have shown up as bootlegs and semi-legal cd's.
1960 (Year of Recording)
Mingus Revisited - also as Pre Bird (Mercury)
Mingus At Antibes (Atlantic)
Mingus Presents Mingus (Candid)
Mingus (Candid)
The Jazz Life (Candid)
Newport Rebels (Candid)
1962
Town Hall Concert (United Artists)
1963
Mingus, Mingus, Mingus, Mingus, Mingus (Impluse)
1964
Town Hall Concert (Jazz Workshop) - also as Portrait (Prestige)
Mingus Sextet Live in Europe (Unique Jazz)
The Great Concert of Charles Mingus (Prestige)
Live In Europe Vol 1 (Enja)
Live In Europe Vol 2 (Enja)
Mingus In Stutgart (Unique Jazz UJ009)
Mingus In Stutgart (Unique Jazz UJ007/8)
peace
Paul
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:18:25 PST
From: "Silent Watcher" <silent_watcher@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Material in the Punk era
>> I remember a Material concert at the Kitchen in 1981. Material
>>at that time, was popular in the punk clubs, and their early EP's were
>>somewhat in that vein, but when the gig turned out to be
>>Laswell, Zorn, Sharrock,Frith,Derek Bailey, and Charles Noyes doing
free
>>improvs, they managed to disperse the audience in pretty short order.
Is it safe to assume that this is the show that produced the _Improvised
Music New York 1981_ disc on MuWorks? I had read somewhere (I think
maybe the Axiom site, or soemthing Jeff Spirer posted) that that disc
was intended as a Material release, but couldn't be for some contractual
reason. I think it's very good, even if only to hear that combination of
players. The quality is poor, though, not to mention that it's only
about 35 min. long and hard to find anything but a slightly expensive
Japanese pressing. Well worth it though.
SW
A semi-complete Laswell discography @
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 17:38:12 -0700 MST
From: sasanborn@micron.com
Subject: FWD:Want List
---------- Start of forwarded message ----------
Message# 639249
Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:01:50 -0700 MST
From: SASANBORN
To: SASANBORN
Subject: Want List
Hi there. I'm really interested in checking out some musick by the following
bands listed below, I know not all of them would be considered the style of
this list, but if anybody out there has any of this and could maybe swap me
a tape of some, or just give me a description of what the group is like, I'd
be most appreciative. Thanx. You can email me at sasanborn@micron.com
Asha Vida
Azusa Plane
Bevis Frond
Electric Frankenstein
Faust
Flying Saucer Attack
Fretless AZM
Fuxa
Ghost
Glide
Keiji Haino-Fushitsusha
High Rise
The Joykiller
Legendary Pink Dots ( I've only got 2 of their cd's)
Manic Street Preachers
Ruins
Saints
7% Solution
Transient Waves
Wesley Willis
YBO2-Alienation
Yellow Magic Orchestra
Zodiac
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 00:12:41 -0500
From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net>
Subject: Laswell Newsgroup?
The following newsgroup appeared on my server(Super Zippo) this
afternoon
alt.music.bill-laswell
WooHoo!
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 02:43:17 -0500
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: My latest purchases
Craig Rath wrote:
> 3. Swans - Swans are Dead: A good capsule of the last years of the Swans.
> Disc one is from the final tour in 97 and disc 2 is from 85. Since I
> wasn't able to get a tape of the 97 show, this is a welcome addition to the
> collection.
Just saw this today and noticed that Vudi, the amazingly textural guitarist from
American Music Club, was present on the second disc (which I'd thought to have
read was from 1995, not '85. But I only looked quickly so I'll take your word for
it). Anyway, how is the second disc? To what else in the Swans ouevre would you
(or anyone else out there) compare it? I haven't heard anything by the Swans
since "Love of Life" if that helps...
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 03:04:50 -0500
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Dolphy [was Re: COLTRANE]
ashley capps wrote:
> Actually, Jesse, your memory is pretty good and Steve's mistaken. Dolphy is
> most definitely on MINGUS MINGUS MINGUS MINGUS MINGUS on all but 2 of the 7
> original tracks, plus he appears on the CDs bonus track.
Serves me right for referring to the goddamned Penguin Guide (third ed., page 911)
instead of the CD itself.
Jesse - here's notice that once in a while I blow it... ;-)
And Ashley, thanks for adding one more item to my ridiculously long "must purchase"
list... grrrrr... ;-)
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 03:15:40 -0500
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Cujo - "Adventures in Foam"
My thanks to Yves Dewulf and Dave Trenkel for their recent posts
regarding Cujo (Amon Tobin)'s disc "Adventures in Foam." I went out and
bought it tonight, and it's one of the most interesting and innovative
d'n'b releases I've ever heard. Many Zornlisters will remember me as
being somewhat of an an outspoken Luddite regarding d'n'b (thanks mainly
to spending a lot of money on a certain Spring Heel Jack import after it
was featured [and favorably reviewed] by a certain 65 year old Village
Voice rock critic), but I've since been converted by Squarepusher,
Photek and Mu-ziq, and this here Cujo album is *the shit*, Zorn sample
or no Zorn sample.
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
np: Oval, "Systemisch" (thanks again Vince)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 02:27:33 -0600
From: clockwise <clockwis@mail.execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Cujo - "Adventures in Foam"
It may sound cheesy, but if you LIKE Cujo, you'll *LOVE* Amon
Tobin.....'Bricolage' was one of the greatest albums of '97 in my
not-so-humble-opinion.
clockwise
At 03:15 AM 1/25/98 -0500, you wrote:
>My thanks to Yves Dewulf and Dave Trenkel for their recent posts
>regarding Cujo (Amon Tobin)'s disc "Adventures in Foam." I went out and
>bought it tonight, and it's one of the most interesting and innovative
>d'n'b releases I've ever heard. Many Zornlisters will remember me as
>being somewhat of an an outspoken Luddite regarding d'n'b (thanks mainly
>to spending a lot of money on a certain Spring Heel Jack import after it
>was featured [and favorably reviewed] by a certain 65 year old Village
>Voice rock critic), but I've since been converted by Squarepusher,
>Photek and Mu-ziq, and this here Cujo album is *the shit*, Zorn sample
>or no Zorn sample.
>
>Steve Smith
>ssmith36@sprynet.com
>np: Oval, "Systemisch" (thanks again Vince)
>
>
>-
>
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 06:58:24 +0000
From: Scott Russell <srussell@cims.co.uk>
Subject: Rough Assemblage
- --MimeMultipartBoundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Dear all
Further to my recent E# posting I forgot to mention I alos have the
Rough Assemblage disc, Construction and Deconstruction (or suchlike) for
exchange. It's on the Avant label and falls into the quirky, percussive,
modern composition type category.
Any suggestions, lemme know.
Scott Russell
- --MimeMultipartBoundary--
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 13:19:29 +0100 (MEZ)
From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de>
Subject: videos....film and music..?
anyone know of a website like cdnow which is specialized in videos???
important: i am from europe so it should be a european site which sells
videos in PAL format
BJOERN
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 16:24:35 -0500
From: Zachary <zachary@netwalk.com>
Subject: SWANS (was: Re: My latest purchases)
At 02:43 AM 1/25/98 -0500, Steve Smith wrote:
>> 3. Swans - Swans are Dead: A good capsule of the last years of the Swans.
>> Disc one is from the final tour in 97 and disc 2 is from 85. Since I
>> wasn't able to get a tape of the 97 show, this is a welcome addition to the
>> collection.
>
>Just saw this today and noticed that Vudi, the amazingly textural
guitarist from
>American Music Club, was present on the second disc (which I'd thought to
have
>read was from 1995, not '85. But I only looked quickly so I'll take your
word for
>it). Anyway, how is the second disc? To what else in the Swans ouevre
would you
>(or anyone else out there) compare it? I haven't heard anything by the Swans
>since "Love of Life" if that helps...
Ahh, SWANS...
_Love of Life_ was followed by _Omniscience_ (1992, Young God/Sky Records),
a quasi-live album of material from the previous tour. It's all right, but
highly experimental and adventurous. It completes some thought that were
laid out with _Love of Life_ and especially _White Light From the Mouth of
Infinity_.
This was followed by the utterly mindblowing _The Great Annihilator_ (1994,
Invisible Records), which to me is the pinnacle of SWANS lifespan. It
continues to produce beauty from noise, and it begins to delve into the
"sonic landscapes" that would dominate their live shows and subsequent
recordings. Disc 2 of _SWANS Are Dead_ is recorded from this tour, 1995.
Just when things couldn't get any better, M. Gira and Jarboe simultaneously
released solo records (Gira with _Drainland_ and Jarboe with _Sacrificial
Cake_, both 1995, Alternative Tentacles Records). _Drainland_ continued
with M. Gira's sonic experimentation and expounded his minimalist nature (a
lot of semi-acoustic songs), while Jarboe's work was to me, well, weird.
She herself admitted that many people, mainly the male listening audience,
wouldn't get it.
SWANS prepared their fans for the end with _Die Tur ist Zu_ (several
versions released, mine is 1996 RTD Records). Most of the songs are sung
in German, and many reappeared in English on the final SWANS studio album,
_Soundtracks For the Blind_ (1996, Young God Records). Two CDs of noise,
texture, and new material that is completely unlike anything I'd run across
(including previous SWANS). Quite slow and loud.
Young God Records are starting to re-release the entire back catalogue of
SWANS and SWANS-related material, all in deluxe 2-CD packaging with extra
tracks where appropriate. Already reissued are _Children of God_/_World of
Skin_ (1986-1988),
soon to be followed by _Cop_/_Young God_/_Greed_/_Holy Money_ (1984-1986),
which encompasses their more abrasive days as a New York sonic nightmare;
_Filth_/_Body to Body, Job to Job_/_1982 EP_ (1982-1986), which totals
their first studio recording, a collection of live samples and tape loops,
and what I'm assuming is their cover EP of Joy Division's "Love Will Tear
Us Apart"; the change of attitude that makes up _The Burning World_/_Ten
Songs From Another World_/_White Light From the Mouth of Infinity_/_Love of
Life_; then later in the year a CD of rarities and more solo projects from
M. Gira and Jarboe.
Of course, you could have found all this out at <http://www.swans.pair.com>.
- -Zachary (who apologizes for the lack of Zorn in this horribly long message)
- - _________________________
)) Zachary ((
[|**| zachary@netwalk.com |**|]
|__| "Coffee Cures Everything" |__|
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #215
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