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1998-01-23
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #213
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Friday, January 23 1998 Volume 02 : Number 213
In this issue:
-
Coltrane
bailey's book
E#
thanx
Re: bailey's book
Re: bailey's book
Re: Oxymoron of the Year
Re: Oxymoron of the Year
Re: Oxymoron of the Year
Nani Nani (or: Does humor belong in music?)
Re: Doug Mc Kay
Re: COLTRANE
Re: COLTRANE
Re: COLTRANE
Zorn in the Punk era
Re: COLTRANE
Hard to find Ornette CDs.....
Re: COLTRANE
Re: Coltrane
Dolphy/Laswell
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 02:12:56
From: "Doug McKay" <mckay003@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: Coltrane
Thanks for the suggestions. I'll keep 'em for when I get around to buying
some Coltrane. I want to get some Coleman first, though. On Parker and the
strings: I think I heard some of that. No thanks. Honestly, I hope Coltrane
blows my head wide open. I WANT to find some great intense jazz or jazz
influenced stuff. Zorn is tops right now. But I'm looking for more. I want
shelves of it. I was speaking of disappointments earlier, not eternal
"I know the truth and if you disagree you're a dope" judgements.
Someone asked what Dolphy has to do with Zorn. Beats me. I just came across
his name as a (dead) sax player out there like him. Which makes me think I
should check him out. Am I wrong? (Of course, he doesn't have to have a
smidgeon of a link with Zorn to be worth checking out. Right? But that
wasn't the question.) Actually, now that I think about it, maybe I only
read about him in Ben Webster's book on Zappa. He's mentioned a lot in
there. The album OUT TO LUNCH, for example. I was thinking though that I
came across his name aside from that book, and in connection with Zorn.
Maybe in the archives for this list?
Is there a video series on the history of jazz or even on part of its
history? Sort of like the multivolume history of rock and roll available
now? There should be. I'd love to see it.
Doug McKay
In Minnesota
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 02:01:22
From: Jesse Simon <umsimo10@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: bailey's book
Today I heard about a book written by Derek Bailey in 1980 in which he
expounds upon his theories of improvised music. Does anyone have any info
about this book, especially who publishes it and weather or not it is still
in print.
thanks,
Jesse
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:23:51 +0000
From: Scott Russell <srussell@cims.co.uk>
Subject: E#
- --MimeMultipartBoundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Just a quickie. Anyone interested in exchanging for the following Elliot
Sharp discs before I go and sell 'em?
Amusia
Tocsin
Tectonics
I'm particularly looking for Zorn's Redbird and Arnold Dreyblatt's
Orchestra of excited strings...
Scott Russell
- --MimeMultipartBoundary--
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:21:28 +0100 (MEZ)
From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de>
Subject: thanx
thanx to all the people out there sending me emails to help me finding
some coltrane stuff for the start...
i dont need anymore emails...got enough...
i guess i`ll start with A LOVE SUPREME...will go to the record store
tomorrow to get my hands on it..
thanx again,,,....
you all rock
BJOERN
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 07:00:50 -0500
From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net>
Subject: Re: bailey's book
Jesse Simon wrote:
>
> Today I heard about a book written by Derek Bailey in 1980 in which he
> expounds upon his theories of improvised music. Does anyone have any info
> about this book, especially who publishes it and weather or not it is still
> in print.
>
> thanks,
> Jesse
>
> -
That info should be able to be found at
http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/ so look there.
-Tom Pratt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:17:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org>
Subject: Re: bailey's book
At 2:01 AM +0000 1/23/98, Jesse Simon wrote:
>Today I heard about a book written by Derek Bailey in 1980 in which he
>expounds upon his theories of improvised music. Does anyone have any info
>about this book, especially who publishes it and weather or not it is still
>in print.
Actually, a great deal of it is also comments about improvisation from
other folks he knew and interview-like dialogs, including a chapter on The
Composer talking with Zorn. I think it's a very informative book, and it's
to his credit that he tries to be comprehensive, though there is a whole
history of vocal improvised music before 1600 which he doesn't touch on
(but he does refer the reader to an excellent source which, because I've
read that source, contains more information about early improvisation in
music). The book is also very good about sources, and includes a
bibliography.
Plus it was updated in 1992, so I'm positive it's still in print. Here's
the publication information:
Improvisation: It's Nature and Practice in Music
Derek Bailey
Da Capo Press, New York, 1993.
ISBN 0-306-80528-6
I would bet Amazon.com has it.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | m - a - t - t - h - e - w | r - o - s - s | d - a - v - i - s | |
| | http://www.artswire.org/mrd | | | | | | | UMD school of music | |
| | m-e-t-a-t-r-o-n p-r-e-s-s | | | http://www.artswire.org/comma | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:58:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Re: Oxymoron of the Year
On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Schwitterz wrote:
> Coltrane...No edge.
re: oxymoron...
agreed.
b
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:35:46 -0600
From: jihad7@juno.com (Nathan M Earixson)
Subject: Re: Oxymoron of the Year
On Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:24:35 -0800 "Schwitterz"
<mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> writes:
>
>Coltrane...No edge.
>
Oxymoron? I think that 'no edge' an apt description of someone
who's basically a direct precursor to Kenny G... <smirk>
**********************************************************************************************
Ah. Nabbed from sadists by terrorists. Sort of a dream come true, ya
know.
- -P. Opus
***********************************************************************************************
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:26:09 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Subject: Re: Oxymoron of the Year
On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Nathan M Earixson wrote:
> >Coltrane...No edge.
> >
>
> Oxymoron? I think that 'no edge' an apt description of someone
> who's basically a direct precursor to Kenny G... <smirk>
It would be for that person. Which makes it still an oxymoron for
Coltrane.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:30:29 -0800
From: Greg Mills <gregm@leftfield.net>
Subject: Nani Nani (or: Does humor belong in music?)
I just sat down and listened to my new copy of Nani Nani (Zorn & Eye) and
it struck me how damn funny it was. The second track, "Test Tube", in
particular had me laughing uncontrollably at my desk at work (headphones,
of course.)
This got me thinking about humor in Zorn's work, and Zorn's work with Eye
in particular. It's easy to see the Stalling musical jokes at work -
juxtaposition of wildly contrasting themes, etc. Good example that's
repeated in various places is Zorn playing some generic sax jazz line,
while moans and shrieks in accompaniment.
There's also the little pastiches that pop up to punctuate the chaos (the
NBC call tones on Naked City. )
I know this is wanking, but what the durn?
Has anyone seen any Zorn comments regarding humor in music?
Thank you,
Puddin' Head Jenkins
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:39:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Coleman Greene <colemang@tiac.net>
Subject: Re: Doug Mc Kay
Well Doug,
Like many musicians, Coltrane has different moods/modes for expressing
himself, also has a long progression in the styles he played. (from
jazz-bop-hard bop-free)
'A Few of My Favorite Things' is VERY representative of a certain
vein/period of coltrane, Very melodic, yet pretty commercial, it is
clearly the MOST overplayed radiowise 'Trane number. (i.e. I'ts the only
coltrane song yer grandmother Would'nt change the radio station over.)
If you want some edgy Coltrane, check out Live in Japan, 4 songs, filling
2 albums, Mostly breakneck paced, and Loud, (As Zorn said to me, Besides,
you want it to be LOUD!! (re:sax.))
Or, since that is a pretty pricey CD, just get some Late Coltrane, not
sure when he died, but the later the year, the more aggressive.
And NO, Ornette is NOT drippy, sweet jazz, (Well exc for some of the
Harmelodic Jazz theory stuff he got into later, (even did an album with
Garcia..)) All the ornette Ive heard, Defined Edge, for generations of
jazz musicians to come.
Eric Dolphy, I have no opinion on, as I've never heard Any of his
own compositions, Just heard him with others....
So Straighten Up, check him out again.
I'ts O.K. to hate Fav Things, Many do....
Coleman 'Ornette' Greene....
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:47:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Re: COLTRANE
On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Steve Smith wrote:
> The greatest of the "classic quartet" recordings on Impulse (aside from "A
> Love Supreme") are "Coltrane" and "Crescent."
boy, i can't believe that no one has mentioned _impressions._ definitely
my favorite coltrane disc after _a love supreme_. dolphy and coltrane
kick *ass* all over "india." which reminds me that fans of dolphy's work
with coltrane should acquiant themselves with _ole_ if not already
familiar. i know, i know, the title *is* cheesy and if memory serves
correct dolphy plays under a pseudonym on the record (george lane, maybe?),
but trust me it is an overlooked classic. there's some serious interplay
going on.
maybe the _impressions_ material has been included on the village vanguard
box set. if so, i'd like to know.
thanks,
b
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:30:32 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: COLTRANE
On Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:47:58 -0500 (EST) Brent Burton wrote:
>
> On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Steve Smith wrote:
>
> > The greatest of the "classic quartet" recordings on Impulse (aside from "A
> > Love Supreme") are "Coltrane" and "Crescent."
>
> boy, i can't believe that no one has mentioned _impressions._ definitely
> my favorite coltrane disc after _a love supreme_. dolphy and coltrane
> kick *ass* all over "india." which reminds me that fans of dolphy's work
> with coltrane should acquiant themselves with _ole_ if not already
> familiar. i know, i know, the title *is* cheesy and if memory serves
> correct dolphy plays under a pseudonym on the record (george lane, maybe?),
> but trust me it is an overlooked classic. there's some serious interplay
> going on.
> maybe the _impressions_ material has been included on the village vanguard
> box set. if so, i'd like to know.
There is one that never gets mentioned and that I love a lot:
KULU SE MAMA
To me, what makes this record so interesting is the succesful mix of free
playing (as illustrated by MEDITATIONS, LIVE IN SEATTLE, etc), and the
African music. Kind of tribal (ancient) and modern at the same time. Leaves
on me a pretty uncanny feeling.
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 14:14:48 -0600
From: JRZ <zube@winternet.com>
Subject: Re: COLTRANE
At 10:30 AM 1/23/98 -0800, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>There is one that never gets mentioned and that I love a lot:
>
> KULU SE MAMA
>
Where are you guys getting Kulu Se Mama and Ascension???? Are they
available seperately? I only have "the major works of John Coltrane" which
has both versions of Ascension, Kulu Se Mama and OM. I looked a long time
for these albums seperately. Are they even available outside of the set?
Another thing,
I think Dolphy stands out better as a sideman than as a leader. What other
albums does Dolphy play as a sideman on, right now I know of
Trane - Ole
- Africa Brass
- Complete VV Recordings
Ornette Coleman
- Free Jazz
What Mingus albums does he play on? Most of his CD's don't list the lineups
on the outside.
>"YANNI?"
>"Wh-what???" I say.
>"Is that Yanni?" he asks,
>"No. Bill Laswell" I reply.
>"Oh. Never heard of him"
>
I was playing "Ole Coltrane" at work when a co-worker described it as
"relaxing, kinda like Kenny G". I almost hit him.
zube
my tapelist http://www.winternet.com/~zube/tapelist.htm
Nyquist was wrong.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 14:46:37
From: "Doug McKay" <mckay003@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: Zorn in the Punk era
What was Zorn doing during the New York punk scene? I just finished the
book by Legs McNeil and (can't recall her name) called PLEASE KILL ME.
Robert Quine is quoted in there, concerning his work with Richard Hell. I
know Quine worked with Zorn on Spillane. So there's some connection. Is
there more?
I recommend the book. A bunch of junkies fuck up their lives but have a
good time doing it. Interesting reading.
Doug McKay
In Minnesota
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:40:53 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: COLTRANE
On Fri, 23 Jan 1998 14:14:48 -0600 JRZ wrote:
>
> At 10:30 AM 1/23/98 -0800, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
> >There is one that never gets mentioned and that I love a lot:
> >
> > KULU SE MAMA
> >
>
> Where are you guys getting Kulu Se Mama and Ascension???? Are they
> available seperately? I only have "the major works of John Coltrane" which
> has both versions of Ascension, Kulu Se Mama and OM. I looked a long time
> for these albums seperately. Are they even available outside of the set?
Sure. I have it (KULU SE MAMA) as a separate CD.
> I think Dolphy stands out better as a sideman than as a leader. What other
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I won't comment on that :-).
> albums does Dolphy play as a sideman on, right now I know of
>
> Trane - Ole
> - Africa Brass
> - Complete VV Recordings
>
> Ornette Coleman
> - Free Jazz
The list is very long, but I think about these immediately:
There is THE BODY AND THE SOUL by Freddie Hubbard with a short but
crazy solo from Eric (the one that impressed so much Evan Parker -- and you
can understand why!).
Dolphy is also amazing on STOLEN MOMENTS (a long time favorite) by Oliver
Nelson.
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:07:12 EST
From: Tag Yr It <TagYrIt@aol.com>
Subject: Hard to find Ornette CDs.....
Excuse the business intrusion all....If anyone on the list would be interested
in Ornette ColemanÆs ôChappaqua Suite,ö a French double CD, sealed for $25
plus the mailing....please email me privately.....
Thank you.
Dale.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 18:19:14
From: Jesse Simon <umsimo10@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: COLTRANE
At 02:14 PM 1/23/98 -0600, JRZ wrote:
>Where are you guys getting Kulu Se Mama and Ascension???? Are they
>available seperately? I only have "the major works of John Coltrane" which
>has both versions of Ascension, Kulu Se Mama and OM. I looked a long time
>for these albums seperately. Are they even available outside of the set?
The best way to get Ascention and Kulu Se Mama is on vinyl. I don't think
ascention has ever been released on cd outside the box set. Old impulse
vinyl isn't usually that hard to track down.
Kulu Se Mama features an excellent track called Vigil which is a fiery duet
between Coltrane and Elvin Jones. Truely incredible, truely impassioned
music. And yes, it has prenty of edge.
>What Mingus albums does [Dolphy] play on? Most of his CD's don't list the
lineups
>on the outside.
Eric Dolphy accompanied Mingus on the historic 1964 european tour. He
stayed after Mingus went home, recorded some albums with Danish (?)
personelle and then died shortly afterwards.
The newly released REVENGE double cd features Dolphy. It is an official
release of the Paris 1964 concert. The first disc features Meditations and
Fables of Faubus as well as two others. The second disc features two songs
each clocking in at about twenty eight minutes. Both are incredible, both
feature really blistering work by Dolphy.
Dolphy also played on Mingus at Antibes (1960 Rhino/Atlantic) and on Mingus
Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus (1961 Impulse).
Good stuff all around.
Jesse
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 19:45:27 -0500
From: chasinthetrane@juno.com (Jamie F Graves)
Subject: Re: Coltrane
I've heard Coltrane called a lot of things, but "syrup and sweet
nothings" is certainly not one of them. If you're just looking for raw
edge, I'd recomend the four disc "Live in Japan" from Impulse. I still
have problems listening to this album. It is a series of long, brutally
powerful improvisations, where Coltrane's horn can be likened to a
groaning scream. I've gotten used to Yamatsuka Eye's stuff. I've never
been able to get comfortable with his playing here. Just about the
definition of edginess. A slightly less grueling album but no less
powerful or "edgy" is Live in Seattle. I'd pretty much say any of his
stuff on Impulse is a good bet, although you don't sound like you'd be
too syked for his Ballads album.
On a side note, your post reminded me that I have to give every musician
people rave about a good chance. My first Miles Davis album was Live
Around the World (I don't know what happened to my copy of that disc...).
If I hadn't stuck with him, I might never have heard Kind of Blue, Miles
Smiles or Pangea.
Jamie
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 22:11:51 -0500
From: Jeff Schwartz <jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu>
Subject: Dolphy/Laswell
The album "Charles Mingus Presents Charles Mingus" is
essential Mingus with Dolphy-it's just Mingus, Dannie
Richmond, Dolphy, and Ted Curson. Wide open, and funky as
hell. Live at Antibes is the same crew +Booker Ervin and
(on one tune) Bud Powell. It cooks hotter, but you should
buy both right away.
Dolphy as leader-Out to Lunch, Iron Man, and Conversations
are awesome, as is the bootleg quintet date with Herbie
Hancock and the Vintage Dolphy set with Gunther Schuller,
etc. The others are worthwhile for Eric's playing, but
often little else. The material on Iron Man and
Conversations has been repackaged a million ways (Alan
Douglas at work!), so it should be easy to find for cheap.
Laswellians-there's a suprisingly lucid conversation with
the man in the new EQ magazine. Lots of gear talk-almost
nothing about Sufi mysticism or the CIA!
- --
Jeff Schwartz
jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu
http://www.bgsu.edu/~jeffs/main.html
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #213
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