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1997-10-03
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From: zorn-list-owner@xmission.com (zorn-list Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@xmission.com
Subject: zorn-list Digest V2 #129
Reply-To: zorn-list@xmission.com
Sender: zorn-list-owner@xmission.com
Errors-To: zorn-list-owner@xmission.com
Precedence:
zorn-list Digest Friday, October 3 1997 Volume 02 : Number 129
In this issue:
Re: school
Re school
Zorn Spirit ?
Re: Zorn Spirit ?
Re: Zorn Spirit ?
Re: Zorn and Hip Hop
Re: Dangerous Ground
Re: Dangerous Ground
Naked City video (Marquee Club)
....... about Quine
Re: ....... about Quine
Re: ....... about Quine
Re: Zorn Spirit ?
Re: ....... about Quine
Harry Smith
Re: ....... about Quine
Periplum CDs: Greinke/Land & Deep Listening Band/Ellen Fullman
about Quine..
game pieces
See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the zorn-list
or zorn-list-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 13:57:17 -0700
From: john shiurba <shiurba@sfo.com>
Subject: Re: school
> > anyone know why School didn't turn up on the Parachute Years?
>
> Probably because it's a Chadbourne composition.
actually, "School" is the title of the double lp split between Zorn and
Chadbourne. There's no piece on the record called "School" by either JZ or
EC. The contents of Zorn's half of the record are featured on the Parachute
box set-- "Lacrosse" (takes 3, 4 & 6) along with 3 other takes recorded at
the same time and one earlier version by Twins. Unfortunately the contents
of Chadbourne's half of the lp are not included, perhaps they're being saved
for the Eugene Chadbourne Parachute Years boxset...
- --
shiurba@sfo.com
http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 15:48:06 -0800
From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re school
Chris Hamilton wrote:
>On Thu, 2 Oct 1997, Julian wrote:
>
>> anyone know why School didn't turn up on the Parachute Years?
>
>Probably because it's a Chadbourne composition.
>
>Chris Hamilton
Actually, it's not a composition by anyone, it's the title of the two disc
set on Parachute that included the original release of three takes of
Lacrosse on one disc.
The other disc contains mainly Chadbourne compositions from 1977-78,
several of which are recorded by groups which include Zorn (including a
couple of pieces by the Twins band that's also heard on the Parachute
years), as well as an improvised duet by Chadbourne & Zorn & a lovely solo
guitar version of Ellington's Solitude by Chadbourne.
Obviously the Parachute Years documents only Zorn's compositions from those
releases. I'd like to have heard some of the previously unrecorded (or
unreleased) game pieces. Oh well.
Herb Levy
herb@eskimo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 17:03:38 PDT
From: "Tim Schelfhout" <s_tim@hotmail.com>
Subject: Zorn Spirit ?
Hi Zorners,
Just got back from a free improv gig in Leuven (Belgium) featuring
Zeena Parkins, David Shea, Jim O'rourke, Toshinoro Kondo, DJ Low, etc..
I gotta tell ya, It was fockin' great!! The way those ╡zics handle
their instruments is to obtain a friggin ╡sical orgasm. It woz as if
ZOrn led them by the hand. As if he ever could do that ?
Anyone interested, they will continue performing FREE ?!* for the next
4 days at 't Stuc in Leuven (Belgium; for those who are American
minded).
Check it out!
P?S? : Does anyone know when Zorn will be in Belgium, again? (Or am
I the only Zornboy in Belgium on tha net?)
Timpy
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 21:04:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: Zorn Spirit ?
On Thu, 2 Oct 1997, Tim Schelfhout wrote:
> Just got back from a free improv gig in Leuven (Belgium) featuring
> Zeena Parkins, David Shea, Jim O'rourke, Toshinoro Kondo, DJ Low, etc..
Sounds great! Was O'Rourke playing guitar? I'd heard a rumor he was
giving it up.
Chris Hamilton
(By the way, all, sorry for the fuckup regarding _School_. I realized my
mistake about three minutes after hitting send, and decided to just hope
no one would read the message. Mea culpa, mea culpa...)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 00:42:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: Zorn Spirit ?
On Thu, 2 Oct 1997, Christopher Hamilton wrote:
> Sounds great! Was O'Rourke playing guitar? I'd heard a rumor he was
> giving it up.
A speedy (private) response from another list member makes me think I
should stress this was a rumor with a capital R. I don't put much
credence in it, but it made me wonder if O'Rourke was playing guitar or
something else.
Chris
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 01:28:04 -0500
From: Richard Williams <punkjazz@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Zorn and Hip Hop
Rich Ladew wrote:
>
> Greetings:
>
> This is an odd subject to discuss, but what do you think Zorn has done/would
> potentially do with hip hop in his music? I've always thought this would be pretty incredible, although I know
> I'm reaching with this particular inquiry.
Actually, it's not that far a reach. If anyone was lucky enough to see
any of the handful of original Golden Palomino's
gigs(Fier,Laswell,Zorn,Lindsay,Tacuma,Moss) they might remember JZ
engaging in some highly danceable James Brownish Funk. Great stuff, much
better than the LP they made. Hard to believe it was 15 years ago.
BTW, If anyone still has a copy of the 3/25/82 Palomino show at
Danceteria, Pleeeeeeeeeaze, e-mail me privately, my copy got trashed.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 13:29:05 UT
From: peter_risser@cinfin.com
Subject: Re: Dangerous Ground
Brent Burton
> Sorry to be the curmudgeon, but there's a *big* difference between a
> bunch of guys having fun with "textured noise" and working musicians
> (Spontaneous Music Ensemble or Cobra or...) who have not only devoted
> a large chunk of their lives to making improvised music, but also
> (especially in the case of someone like Derek Bailey) spend a great deal
> of each day practicing for these settings. Yours is similar to the
> old argument that someone's child could've painted a Picasso. I think
> you should give these guys a little more credit.
Ya, I agree that you are being a bit of a curmudgeon.
First off, there's been a ton of Cobra performances by people who *haven't*
spent most of their lives making improv music. You know? I think I could paint
like Pollack. No, I don't think my kid could paint like Pollack. His isn't
just spilled paint, it's texture and structure and color choices, etc. So, with
some practice, yeah, I could. And with more practice, so could my kid.
(Pollack was a child once.) In any case, I wasn't challenging the music or
saying it was easier to play. I was saying does it make a difference if the
downtown set uses a game piece or not? Because when I've jammed without
structure, the results sound similar.
On recollection, we were in fact imposing structure. The very basics. Not
just, make any noise you want, because that's boring. The key that I think most
people forget is that you are playing music as an ensemble. And I think that
other person (name forgotten) was right, that the game piece helps you
concentrate on that. It was always very important for us to listen to what was
going on and play together. And I think that's were we made the difference.
Back to using that Zorn record, that worked great, because we focused on playing
with the record and responding to what he was doing. It concentrated us.
Anyway, there's been some fabulous comments. I'm cataloging these so I can tell
my children why this stuff is important and how its supposed to work. Thanks.
Peter
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 09:29:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org>
Subject: Re: Dangerous Ground
Well, I think Picasso is a bad example for this analogy (especially after
having seen the exhibit of early works (blue period, etc) at the National
Gallery...WOW) , but I catch your drift.
However, I think there are two important things to consider when
making statements like this and arguments against statements like this.
#1. The music
#2. The musician
The music - without getting into messy aesthetic issues, the music has
the ability to stand on its own. Yes, putting a performance of Cobra
(e.g. a highly structured improvisation, which I don't consider 'free'
whatsoever) next to a purely 'free' improv performance may yield absolutely
no differences in what's perceived and what's planned. You may be dealing
with highly proficient musicians on the one hand and amateurs on the
other, but the musical product has the ability to be similar.
The musicians - here, you're no longer considering the music so much as
respect and admiration for a particular artist. Respect for Picasso's
painting is hightened by the fact that his earlier, more realistic and
impressionistic works were equally amazing in scope and technique. Bailey's
technique and prowess as an improvisor makes us respect and appreciate his
music on a different level, because we know something of what's behind
the music, and how it's being played. An amateur player may produce similar
sounding music which we like very much on an aesthetic level, but our
appreciation of the artist themselves may be different - we may note their
instictiveness and passion instead of their amateur technique, and leave it
at that.
On the one hand, in the end it's the Music: it's what the product is, and
it's what we come to enjoy. On the other, there's the Musician: a creative
soul that we can appreciate and respect on many different levels. The two
aren't mutually exclusive, but their weight against each other colors how
each of us individually perceive the performance and the performer.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
m-a-t-t-h-e-w r-o-s-s d-a-v-i-s university of maryland
http://www.artswire.org/~mrd school of music
| S | O | H | C | 4 | # | 3 | 6 | 5 | | | 7 | 9 | C | B | 6 | 5 | 0 |
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 12:04:01 -0400
From: Alain Potvin <louisp@destination.ca>
Subject: Naked City video (Marquee Club)
Hello all
Who sing/scream with Y. Eye on Leng T'che on the Naked City video at the
marquee club?
Thanks
Alain Potvin
1296 Julien
St-Felicien
Quebec, Canada
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 14:34:45 -0300 (GMT-0300)
From: perojo@unsl.edu.ar
Subject: ....... about Quine
Hi,
Ayone have any information about Robert Qine, last proyect, new
proyects?
Txs.
- -- Pablo.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 13:35:45 -0500
From: jihad7@juno.com (Nathan M Earixson)
Subject: Re: ....... about Quine
Was in the Voidoids. Worked on at least one Richard Hell solo album.
On at least two Matthew Sweet albums (with Richard Lloyd)
On some of the Filmworks.
Plays on Ikue Mori's "Painted Desert" with Marc Ribot.
and that's all I know right now.
********************************************************
"What could possibly go wrong?"
"Melville".
********************************************************
On Fri, 3 Oct 1997 14:34:45 -0300 (GMT-0300) perojo@unsl.edu.ar writes:
>Hi,
> Ayone have any information about Robert Qine, last proyect,
>new
>proyects?
> Txs.
>
>-- Pablo.
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 21:03:54 +0200
From: Stephane Vuilleumier <svuilleu@micro.biol.ethz.ch>
Subject: Re: ....... about Quine
Surely there must be a Robert Quine discog somewhere!
I for one would love to see one...
RQ also played and recorded with Lydia Lunch, Lou Reed, Fred Maher,
lately also on the Corin Curschellas record with Ikue Mori,
Christian Marclay, Marc Ribot...
On Fri, 3 Oct 1997 13:35:45 -0500
jihad7@juno.com (Nathan M Earixson) wrote:
>Was in the Voidoids. Worked on at least one Richard Hell solo album.
>On at least two Matthew Sweet albums (with Richard Lloyd)
>On some of the Filmworks.
>Plays on Ikue Mori's "Painted Desert" with Marc Ribot.
>and that's all I know right now.
>
>On Fri, 3 Oct 1997 14:34:45 -0300 (GMT-0300) perojo@unsl.edu.ar wrote:
>>Hi,
>> Ayone have any information about Robert Qine, last proyect,
>>new
>>proyects?
>> Txs.
>>
>>-- Pablo.
>>
>>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 15:38:22 -0400
From: Valkwitch <valk@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: Zorn Spirit ?
Christopher Hamilton wrote:
>
> On Thu, 2 Oct 1997, Tim Schelfhout wrote:
>
> > Just got back from a free improv gig in Leuven (Belgium) featuring
> > Zeena Parkins, David Shea, Jim O'rourke, Toshinoro Kondo, DJ Low, etc..
>
> Sounds great! Was O'Rourke playing guitar? I'd heard a rumor he was
> giving it up.
>
> Chris Hamilton
i think o'rourke has given up the guitar entirely, according to an
interview/article in the latest 'Option' magazine. He says he's bored
with the instrument and wants to do compositional work, i suppose...
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 12:41:06 PDT
From: "David Brunelle" <ihvh@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: ....... about Quine
>Surely there must be a Robert Quine discog somewhere!
>I for one would love to see one...
>
>RQ also played and recorded with Lydia Lunch, Lou Reed, Fred Maher,
>lately also on the Corin Curschellas record with Ikue Mori,
>Christian Marclay, Marc Ribot...
>
He also played on some early Material tracks.
Dave Brunelle
IHVH@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 14:46:22 -0800
From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com>
Subject: Harry Smith
Smithsonian Folkways has recently re-issued a great collection called
Anthology of American Folk Music, originally compiled by Harry Smith, to
whom John Zorn dedicated the naked City disc Heretics. Zorn describes
Smith there as "Mystical Animator, Pioneer Ethnomusicologist, Hermetic
Scholar, Creator of 'Heaven + Earth Magic' one of the greatest films of all
time."
This collection contains NO music by Zorn, or any other musician usually
name checked on this list. & not everyone on this list will find things of
interest to them in the collection.
Still, those of you with an interest in the roots of American music, as
well as the roots of how the roots of American music came to influence the
music of the present, could do much worse than looking into this collection
of 84 examples of early blues, folk, gospel, bluegrass, and other
proto-weird musics of the United States.
When this anthology was first released in the early 50s much of the music
was totally unknown, Smith's collection helped to spark a revival in
interest and performance of these areas of music that still has impact on
musicians today. The raw energy of many of these recorded performances, as
well as Smith's vision in compiling the set, is exemplary.
The final disc of the set is an expanded CD which, in addition to more than
40 minutesd of music, includes QuickTime videos (of performers as well as
some of Smith's own experimental films), interviews, and lots more on the
music and Smith, as well.
Herb Levy
herb@eskimo.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 18:16:01 -0400
From: Zachary <zachary@netwalk.com>
Subject: Re: ....... about Quine
On Fri, 3 Oct 1997 14:34:45 -0300 (GMT-0300) perojo@unsl.edu.ar wrote:
>>>Hi,
>>> Ayone have any information about Robert Qine, last proyect,
>>>new
>>>proyects?
On Fri, 3 Oct 1997 13:35:45 -0500
jihad7@juno.com (Nathan M Earixson) replied:
>>Was in the Voidoids. Worked on at least one Richard Hell solo album.
>>On at least two Matthew Sweet albums (with Richard Lloyd)
>>On some of the Filmworks.
>>Plays on Ikue Mori's "Painted Desert" with Marc Ribot.
>>and that's all I know right now.
Then, at 09:03 PM 10/3/97 +0200, Stephane Vuilleumier wrote:
>RQ also played and recorded with Lydia Lunch, Lou Reed, Fred Maher,
>lately also on the Corin Curschellas record with Ikue Mori,
>Christian Marclay, Marc Ribot...
He also did some abrasive stuff with Jim Thirlwell in Scraping Foetus Off
The Wheel.
>Surely there must be a Robert Quine discog somewhere!
>I for one would love to see one...
Agreed...it could very well be as long as Zorn's (and just as diverse).
- -Zachary
- - _________________________
)) Zachary ((
[|**| zachary@netwalk.com |**|]
|__| "Coffee Cures Everything" |__|
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 16:54:27 -0800
From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com>
Subject: Periplum CDs: Greinke/Land & Deep Listening Band/Ellen Fullman
Hi folks,
I'll keep this short.
Periplum has released 2 CDs this year: one is the second release by Jeff
Greinke & Land (Dennis Rea, Lesli Dalaba, Ed Pias, George Soler, Bill Moyer
and Greg Gilmore), called Archipelago with eight group compositions &
Suspended Music, a collaboration between the Deep Listening Band (Pauline
Oliveros, Stuart Dempster, David Gamper) & Ellen Fullman & the Long String
Instrument featuring both groups playing new compositions by Oliveros &
Fullman.
I'm offering these to list members for US$14 including postage for either
disc or US$26 including postage for both.
E-mail inquiries to <herb@eskimo.com>, checks/money orders to Periplum,
POBox 95678, Seattle, WA 98145 USA.
Forthcoming releases, out in early 98, include a CD of interactive computer
music pieces by Canadian composer Martin Bartlett & a series of songs for
voice and piano by eleven US composers including John Luther Adams, Peter
Garland, Robin Holcomb, David Mahler, Maggi Payne, Susan Stenger. Affter
that a few surprises, including some things that may be particularly
pertinent to this list.
Bests,
Herb
Herb Levy
herb@eskimo.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 20:57:50 -0300 (GMT-0300)
From: perojo@unsl.edu.ar
Subject: about Quine..
Txs to all.
Yes i know that quine was working with Reed Dna Lunch John Zorn and so on..
But i these year has work in some project? maybe with Zorn? Masada?
Txs again ..
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 21:18:58 -0400
From: stephen drury <stevedrury@mindspring.com>
Subject: game pieces
Let me add two quick comments to Chris Hamilton's excellent discussion of
Zorn's game pieces. First, along with music of Butch Morris and
Stockhausen's "intuitive" pieces, it's really useful to consider Zorn's game
pieces in the light of non- (or semi-)improvised "open form" compositions by
Cage, Earle Brown, Christian Wolff and the like. A "composition" which
maintains its identity from performance to performance, even though any two
performances sound completely different from each other was very much one of
Cage's preoccupations toward the end of his life (and throughout his
career). Works of Cage like (warning: Plug alert) "Music Walk" will be
nearly unrecognizable from one performance to another, while performances of
works like "Fourteen" will differ only in details.
Secondly (and I suppose this is obvious, in a way), just like Beethoven or
Ellington, Zorn's game music has meanings and mechanisms that only become
apparent once you've actually performed the pieces several times. It's not
really possible to fully communicate those meanings verbally. His written
out music is very much the same.
- -- steve drury
------------------------------
End of zorn-list Digest V2 #129
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