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zorn-list Digest      Wednesday, October 1 1997      Volume 02 : Number 127



In this issue:

    Re: Tears of Ecstacy
    Re: Zorn and Hip Hop
    Re: Zorn and Hip Hop
    Re: Zorn and Hip Hop
    David Garland: Control Songs
    formal training
    Re: David Garland: Control Songs
    Re: formal training
    Question...
    Re: formal training
    Ornette's keyboardist Dave Bryant...gig this Sunday
    Ornette's keyboardist Dave Bryant...gig this Sunday
    Re: Philip Gelb - Purple Wind (fwd)
    Re:  formal training
    Game pieces
    Dangerous ground
    Gysi/tuba
    school
    Re: Dangerous ground
    Re: school

See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the zorn-list
or zorn-list-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 20:19:54 -0400
From: Lang Thompson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tears of Ecstacy

Don't know about this one but there is another film from the same director
available in the US.  I saw the box in a local (Atlanta) video store that
soon went bankrupt so I never rented it.  The tape was part of a series of
gay-themed "art" films that was called something like Pink Visions (or
maybe I'm misremembering it).  Facets in Chicago might be able to help
track it down.
Lang Thompson
http://members.aol.com/wlt4/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 19:58:47 -0800
From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn and Hip Hop

The samples of Public Enemy are part of Wayne Horvitz' sampler set up for a
couple of particular pieces in the Naked City repertoire, I don't know
whether this was at Zorn's request or if it was Wayne's idea.

Zorn did include rap turntable artist Whiz Kid in one of the Locus Solus
trios, but that seems to be the most recent (& so far only) collaboration
with a performer from that end of the music business.

Bests,

Herb


Herb Levy
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 02:01:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn and Hip Hop

On Tue, 30 Sep 1997, Herb Levy wrote:

> Zorn did include rap turntable artist Whiz Kid in one of the Locus Solus
> trios, but that seems to be the most recent (& so far only) collaboration
> with a performer from that end of the music business.

Not quite.  Zorn plays game calls on Joe Piscopo's 1985 "Honeymooners
Rap", which also features scratching by DST (now DXT) of "Rockit" fame.  I
trust both gentlemen were paid well for their time.

Chris Hamilton

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 08:31:36 +0200
From: Stephane Vuilleumier <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn and Hip Hop

>On Tue, 30 Sep 1997, Herb Levy wrote:
>
>> Zorn did include rap turntable artist Whiz Kid in one of the Locus Solus
>> trios, but that seems to be the most recent (& so far only) collaboration
>> with a performer from that end of the music business.
>
>Not quite.  Zorn plays game calls on Joe Piscopo's 1985 "Honeymooners
>Rap", which also features scratching by DST (now DXT) of "Rockit" fame.  I
>trust both gentlemen were paid well for their time.
>
>Chris Hamilton

And which Eddie Murphy is it on vocals?

029 - NEW JERSEY: Joe Piscopo

    2/ Honeymooners Rap                         (Schuckett, Willner)     3:58
    7/ Fat Boy                                  (T. Adams)               2:08

    Recorded at Power Station, New york

  Joe Piscopo: voice; Eddie Murphy: voice (2); Ralph Schuckett: keyboards;
  Lloyd Landesman: keyboards; Ira Siegel: guitar; John Siegler: bass; Anton
  Fig: drums; Jimmy Bralower: drum machine programming (2); D.S.T.: turnta-
  bles, digital sampler (2); John Zorn: game calls; The Uptown Horns (2);
  Terry Adams: background vocals (7), Hal Willner: background vocals (7).

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 09:05:39 +0200 (MESZ)
From: BJOERN <[e-mail]>
Subject: David Garland: Control Songs

well for any of you who do not know: David Garland`s record "Control
Songs" (zorn discog. #045) has been rereleased on CD on the German label
No Man`s land. John Zorn plays on track #6.....the CD reissue has some
bonus tracks...anyway i heard some of it and thought this was amazing

it can be ordered here in Germany from:
Gerhard Busse
Strassmannstr. 33
10249 Berlin
GERMANY

BJOERN

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 20:11:14 +1000
From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: formal training

Does anyone know what formal musical training John Zorn has had?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 08:23:19 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: David Garland: Control Songs

On Wed, 1 Oct 1997 09:05:39 +0200 (MESZ)  BJOERN wrote:
>
> well for any of you who do not know: David Garland`s record "Control
> Songs" (zorn discog. #045) has been rereleased on CD on the German label
> No Man`s land. John Zorn plays on track #6.....the CD reissue has some
> bonus tracks...anyway i heard some of it and thought this was amazing

That's a wonderful news!!!!! The songs have all this little twist which
makes them really interesting. Furthermore, the record is really enjoyable
(meaning that there is a non-zero risk that some of your friends might
like it :-).

    Patrice (who is longing for more Garland)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 11:04:13 -0500 (CDT)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: formal training

They're listed in the liner notes of Redbird.  I forget them at the
moment, however.

On Wed, 1 Oct 1997, Julian wrote:

> Does anyone know what formal musical training John Zorn has had?
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 13:23:44 -0300 (GMT-0300)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Question...

Hi zorlisters:
    Anyone have some information of the old "No New York",
any information?.
    Thanks.

- --Pablo.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 09:36:42 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: formal training

On Wed, 1 Oct 1997 20:11:14 +1000  "Julian" wrote:
>
> Does anyone know what formal musical training John Zorn has had?


His first intrument was piano. At the age of 10, he switched to guitar and
flute. At 14 he studied composition at the U.N. School in Manhattan with
Leonardo Balada (Argentine-born classical composer). At that time he was
mainly listening to contemporary classical music (Kagel, Ives, etc). At 16 he
discovered John Cage, and that sparked his interest in aleatory and improvi-
sed forms.

1971-1973 (1.5 years): he studied at the Webster College in Saint Louis under
Kendall Stallings.

It is at Webster that his interest for jazz started. It is there that he
discovered jazz music (the Black Artist Group). After listening to JCOA (or
FOR ALTO), he decides to learn alto saxophone.

At that time (1971) Oliver Lake was teaching at the Webster College, and many
great musicians, like Luther Thomas, were hanging around. The Black Arts
Group (BAG) and the Association for Advancement of Creative Musicians (AACM)
were instrumental in turning Zorn to jazz music. One of the reasons being
the energy they were dealing with and their concern for structures. After
listening to FOR ALTO (Anthony Braxton), he adopts the alto saxophone. Under
the influence of Steve Lacy, he will practice the soprano, but after two
years he will go back to alto definitely.

    Patrice.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 12:45:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Ornette's keyboardist Dave Bryant...gig this Sunday

Hey yallz!

     For those of you Ornette fans, this might be of particular interest:
an organization that I'm pleased to work with, the Boston Creative Music
Alliance, is hosting a gig for Dave Bryant, Prime Time's keyboardist. Wish
I could see it myself, but my free-improv group Saturnalia will play the
Knitting Factory in NYC (9pm) that night joined by Rain House (long-time
Living Theatre member) and improvisor extrodanaire Ed Chang.  So if ya live
in NYC and wanna see another really kewl show....you know. We also
perform a film soundtrack ("The Way Things Go") this Saturday Oct. 4th
at the Institute for Contemporary Art in Boston, noon and 2pm, FREE!

Sunday, October 5. The Dave Bryant Quintet featuring
George Garzone. The concert debut of a dynamic harmolodic quintet led
by the keyboardist for Ornette Coleman and Prime Time. The band features
saxophonist George Garzone, bassist John Turner, and drummers Chris
Bowmanand Bob Gullotti.  This and all BCMA concerts will begin at 8pm.
Tickets for the Boston Series are $10. Tickets for all other concerts are
$15.
Tickets are available in advance at Twisted Village, 12 Elliot St.,
Cambridge.
[phone]. For further information call the BCMA [phone].

The Boston Creative Music Alliance, winner of a 1997 Best of Boston Award
for its New Histories music series at the ICA (which included John Zorn's
Masada, Henry Threadgill, The Far East Side Band, etc.) is also pleased to
announce an
expanded season of programming in a new venue, including a special monthly
series featuring Boston-area performers, as well as concerts by Marty Ehrlich

and the Dark Woods Ensemble (November 1), the Equal Interest trio, (November
7th, featuring Joseph Jarman, Leroy Jenkins, and Myra Melford),  Kobold
(November 13), and the Dave Douglas Sextet (December 3rd).

All concerts will take place at the Dante Alighieri Society Cultural Center
at 41 Hampshire St., Cambridge. Conveniently located at the corner of
Hampshire and Portland St., near the Kendall Square cinema complex and the
pubs and restaurants at One Kendall Square, the Center seats more than 200
in an intimate performance space designed by world-renowned architect,
Pietro Belluschi. Only a five minute walk from the Kendall Square stop on
the Red Line, the Dante also had free parking in its adjoining lot.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 12:47:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Ornette's keyboardist Dave Bryant...gig this Sunday

Hey yallz!

     For those of you Ornette fans, this might be of particular interest:
an organization that I'm pleased to work with, the Boston Creative Music
Alliance, is hosting a gig for Dave Bryant, Prime Time's keyboardist. Wish
I could see it myself, but my free-improv group Saturnalia will play the
Knitting Factory in NYC (9pm) that night joined by Rain House (long-time
Living Theatre member) and improvisor extrodanaire Ed Chang.  So if ya live
in NYC and wanna see another really kewl show....you know. We also
perform a film soundtrack ("The Way Things Go") this Saturday Oct. 4th
at the Institute for Contemporary Art in Boston, noon and 2pm, FREE!

Sunday, October 5. The Dave Bryant Quintet featuring
George Garzone. The concert debut of a dynamic harmolodic quintet led
by the keyboardist for Ornette Coleman and Prime Time. The band features
saxophonist George Garzone, bassist John Turner, and drummers Chris
Bowmanand Bob Gullotti.  This and all BCMA concerts will begin at 8pm.
Tickets for the Boston Series are $10. Tickets for all other concerts are
$15.
Tickets are available in advance at Twisted Village, 12 Elliot St.,
Cambridge.
[phone]. For further information call the BCMA [phone].

The Boston Creative Music Alliance, winner of a 1997 Best of Boston Award
for its New Histories music series at the ICA (which included John Zorn's
Masada, Henry Threadgill, The Far East Side Band, etc.) is also pleased to
announce an
expanded season of programming in a new venue, including a special monthly
series featuring Boston-area performers, as well as concerts by Marty Ehrlich

and the Dark Woods Ensemble (November 1), the Equal Interest trio, (November
7th, featuring Joseph Jarman, Leroy Jenkins, and Myra Melford),  Kobold
(November 13), and the Dave Douglas Sextet (December 3rd).

All concerts will take place at the Dante Alighieri Society Cultural Center
at 41 Hampshire St., Cambridge. Conveniently located at the corner of
Hampshire and Portland St., near the Kendall Square cinema complex and the
pubs and restaurants at One Kendall Square, the Center seats more than 200
in an intimate performance space designed by world-renowned architect,
Pietro Belluschi. Only a five minute walk from the Kendall Square stop on
the Red Line, the Dante also had free parking in its adjoining lot.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 09:57:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bob Boster <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Philip Gelb - Purple Wind (fwd)

As both a zorn-list reader and a friend and collaborator  of Phil's I took
the opportunity to mention to him that he hade been plugged recently.  He
asked me to forward  a bit more info to the list.

Purple Wind is excellent and I highly recommend it, expecially for folks
interested in the places where traditional musics interface with
improvisation and/or where electronics interface with improvisation.  AS
the previous reviewer mentioned, both are present on Phil's disk, and to
good effect.

Phil's a recent transplant to the SF Bay Area and we've roped him into
curating the december installment of the Cultural Labyrinth series
(December 20 @ 2779 - formerly komotion, mail [e-mail] for
details)  He'll be leading an ensemble scoring a film during the show...

I've CCed him on this post, so you can contact him directly for more
information about other appearances and/or future releases.

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 21:30:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Philip Gelb <[e-mail]>
To: Bob Boster <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Philip Gelb - Purple Wind (fwd)

Not sure why my music is being spoken of on a zorn list but i do appreciate
the review!!

The other musicians on Pruple WInd (in case anyone was interested) are:
Miya Masaoka- koto
Gino Robair- percussion
Dana Reason - piano
Shaking Ray Levis - synth, percussion.

phil

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 11:01:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  formal training

John Zorn was a student at Webster College (now University) in St. Louis for
a couple semesters around 1972.  Oliver Lake and Hamiet Bluiett were working
in St. Louis in that period and I expect he was exposed to their music.

------------------------------

Date: Wed,  1 Oct 1997 21:19:37 UT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Game pieces

Does anyone have a) a list of all the game pieces Zorn has written, b) what the
concepts and/or mechanics are behind them and c) where I can find some scores?

Or for that matter, any of his scores?

I know they must exist.  Does he publish with any music companies?

------------------------------

Date: Wed,  1 Oct 1997 21:28:12 UT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Dangerous ground

All right, I know I'm on dangerous ground here, but...

My friends and I used to gather in the studio of a local radio station and make
noise, noise, noise.  We'd bring every instrument and item we could get our
hands on.  At one point, we even played against a recording of Zorn's
Strategies, so it sounded like he was in the room with us.  (Actually, that was
pretty damn neat. It sounds really cool.)  In any case, the free-wheeling stuff
we did does not sound that different than the structurally 'composed' Parachute
stuff on the box set I just purchased.  Admittedly, I think we were advanced in
the stuff we were doing, because we had already talked about how people don't
have to play all the time, etc etc, so we got a good mixture of dynamics and
sound qualities.

Dont' get me wrong, I really enjoy listening to the set.   It, uh, helps me
unwind, believe it or not.

I guess my question is, was it worth it?  Was it necessary?  Does having these
'games' really make a difference in the final musical output?  Can anyone else
comment?

My background pretty much stops at Zorn, too.  Some may say it's criminal, but I
have no real background in Parker, Bailey, Braxton, Chadbourne, etc.  I'm
wondering if maybe that's the problem, like, it's a step in the development of
improv that I'm seeing and not knowing the context, I might not see how radical
it is.

Any comments?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 20:32:51 -0400
From: Tom Pratt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Gysi/tuba

Does anyone here know what instrument a guy named Wadi Gysi plays. I've
discovered that he has a duo album out on Intakt with Hans Reichel who I
recently discovered and love. This album just might be of interest to
me. Any info is appreciated!

If anyone out there plays tuba, you need to go find Melvyn Poore's solo
tuba experiment's on Georg Graewe's Random Acoustics label. The album is
called 'Groundwork' and is all solo tuba compositions and improvisations
with assorted stereo delay, tape and live electronics systems. I just
got it and completely love it!

            -Tom Pratt

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 12:14:53 +1000
From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: school

anyone know why School didn't turn up on the Parachute Years?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 22:38:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Jascha W. Narveson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Dangerous ground

> All right, I know I'm on dangerous ground here, but...
>
> My friends and I used to gather in the studio of a local radio station and make
> noise, noise, noise.  We'd bring every instrument and item we could get our
<snip>
> I guess my question is, was it worth it?  Was it necessary?  Does having these
> 'games' really make a difference in the final musical output?  Can anyone else
> comment?
<snip>
> My background pretty much stops at Zorn, too.  Some may say it's criminal, but I
> have no real background in Parker, Bailey, Braxton, Chadbourne, etc.  I'm
> wondering if maybe that's the problem, like, it's a step in the development of
> improv that I'm seeing and not knowing the context, I might not see how radical
> it is.

hm!  I've done stuff like this as well and it seemed to work fine.  I
prepare to duck for cover as i say this, but i believe that this kind of
textural noisey stuff isn't really that challenging to play.  It still
takes quite alot of imagination, and, most importantly, *soul*, but no
theory or 'chops' or knowledge of how conventional music works at all.
This isn't to say it's not worthwhile, but it is to say that perhaps is
not the mysterious, inaccessible art form which, say, jazz piano is to
most, or Tabla playing...  And there's definitely the potential to do it
really badly (i've heard it done badly, sometimes by me), but to aware,
imaginative folks with noise-makers, the very real possibility of doing
interesting things with sound exists, even if they can't improvise a jazz
chord progression in twelve different keys.  I see this as a very good
thing.

- -jascha

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 22:40:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Jascha W. Narveson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: school

> anyone know why School didn't turn up on the Parachute Years?

"School"=game piece ----> school=game (according to Zorn anyway)?

- -jascha

------------------------------

End of zorn-list Digest V2 #127
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