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zorn-list Digest     Wednesday, September 10 1997     Volume 02 : Number 119



In this issue:

    Re: New Misha Mengelberg Trio
    Re: rec.music.bluenote
    lots of zorn-list people
    zorn questions
    zorn questions
    RE: Masada 8
    New Guy
    Re: lots of zorn-list people
    Re: zorn questions
    Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #117
    Still Melvins
    Re: zorn questions
    DNA
    No Idea, Misha Mengelberg
    opinions on Shea's new CD?
    Re: opinions on Shea's new CD?
    back to bacharach
    Re: DNA
    Re: DNA
    Pere Ubu
    The Art of Remembrance (fwd)

See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the zorn-list
or zorn-list-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 10:03:02 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Jacques Oger <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: New Misha Mengelberg Trio

>On Wed, 3 Sep 1997 21:15:39 -0700 (PDT)
>From: [e-mail] (Holtby)
>
>    -Being a large fan of Mengelberg's "Who's Bridge" trio recording
>with Joey
>Baron and Brad Jones, I was delighted to see that Cadence's center section
>offers a new Mengelberg trio disc entitled "No Idea".  Apparently Mengelberg
>has switched from Avant to DIW for this one, and, while retaining Joey
>Baron, has replaced Jones with G. Cohen.
>
>    Begore biting the bullet, I wonder if anyone has heard this and
>might give
>a recommendation.  Are these Mengelberg compositions?
>
>Thanks-
>Doug H.

Yes it is a very good, highly recommendable record.
There are jazz standards (including one Ellington's composition), an
original by Mengelberg (called 'No Idea'), and the great Herbie Nichol's
composition called 'House Party Starting'.

Jacques

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 15:04:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Vince Kargatis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: rec.music.bluenote

> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 09:12:30 -0700
> From: Jason Edward Kocol <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: rec.music.bluenote
>
> > It's really too bad. I used to enjoy reading that group. THere ware some
> > open minded folks there, and one could learn alot about the music.
>
>      You know, I have never checked out that newsgroup, but if the
> content was how you put it, I don't plan on doing it anytime soon.  :)

Please.  Why would you think that one post could typify a decade-old
newsgroup?  As will all public discussions on the net, there're good and
bad threads.  If you're an experienced net reader, you ignore the bad
ones with ease.

>      However, the term "open-mined" can be very much misunderstood.

The discussion of the term "open-minded" is slightly ironic when deciding
not to investigate things for yourself.

vince

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 15:08:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: [e-mail] (m. rizzi)
Subject: lots of zorn-list people

Howdy,

I just did a subscription check for the zorn-list and digest.
There are now 518 subscribers! That's our first time cresting
the 500 mark, pretty amazing how many of y'all are out there.

cheers,
mike rizzi
zorn-list-statistician

- --
[e-mail] -------------------------------------- www.browbeat.com
                   "Another nerd with a soulpatch"
- -------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 -------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 20:20:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: slawlor <[e-mail]>
Subject: zorn questions

Hi there.  I got film works 6 and it says it has tracks from crystalnacht,
(sorry for the horrible spelling) and locus solis.  I have both of these
disks and can't find anything on fw6 that even resembles these recordings.
It also has some material from the early recordings of john zorn.  Is this
available by itself on cd?  and, I'm still not sure what the point of
locus solis is?  I like the experimentalism of it.  Can anyone recommend
anything else by zorn in the same vain as ls? thanks for the information.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 20:20:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: slawlor <[e-mail]>
Subject: zorn questions

Hi there.  I got film works 6 and it says it has tracks from crystalnacht,
(sorry for the horrible spelling) and locus solis.  I have both of these
disks and can't find anything on fw6 that even resembles these recordings.
It also has some material from the early recordings of john zorn.  Is this
available by itself on cd?  and, I'm still not sure what the point of
locus solis is?  I like the experimentalism of it.  Can anyone recommend
anything else by zorn in the same vain as ls? thanks for the information.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 02:35:29 +0000
From: Dwight Haden <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Masada 8

>Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 22:10:46 +0100
>From: "kevin cornish" <[e-mail]>
>Subject: masada 8
>
>can anyone tell me where to get masada 8 on DIW lable
>on the internet
>
>cd now only sell on EVA lable
>
Yes, what's up with that?  I noticed last week that CDNow had
Masada's 1 thru 7 in stock with EVA product numbers.  Are these
still DIW discs, or have the Masada's been released on an
alternate label?  Anybody know?

The only place I know of to get Masada 8 at present is the Downtown Music
Gallery in NYC.  They don't have a web site / secure order function
but you can order by plain email (feeling lucky?)  And yes, they have the
DIW discs, not EVA.

The email addr is [e-mail]

Here's a reply I got from them last week:
>We have all of the Masadas (incl. 8) in stock and they're all $16 except for
>Masada 4-$15. S&H is $3 for a single disc and $1 for each add'l disc. To
>order just Call, Fax or Email your order and include your Name, Ph. #,
>Address and CC info. Be advised that
>Email is not the safest way to do CC transactions, so if you go that way
>it's at your own risk.
>
>Downtown Music Gallery
>211 E. 5th St.
>New York, N.Y.
>10003
>
>[phone]
>[phone] Fax
>
>Store Hours:
>Sun-Wed 12-9
>Thu 12-10
>Fri/Sat 12-11

  Dwight Haden === [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 22:35:00 EDT
From: [e-mail] (James T Graves)
Subject: New Guy

Hey, I just signed up for the Zorn list, and am very interested in
talking about his music. So, here's a little bit about me. I'm a high
school senior who got into jazz about two years ago, then started moving
towards the more "free" stuff. This has ultimately led me to a lot of
avant-garde in general, regardless of jazz roots. A couple friends
introduced me to the whole Knitting Factory/downtown scene a few months
ago, and I've been gobbling up stuff ever since. I must admit, I know
very little about Zorn. I own a Naked City and a Masada cd, have read a
few internet interviews with Zorn, and have heard a couple things from
some friends, but that's about it. So, I guess my first question is,
where do I go from here? Everything I've heard I like, but what should I
start looking at now? Filmworks? His earlier stuff? Maybe some
collaboration he's done with somebody? Any suggestions appreciated.

Jamie

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 23:00:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: lots of zorn-list people

On Tue, 9 Sep 1997, m. rizzi wrote:

> There are now 518 subscribers! That's our first time cresting
> the 500 mark, pretty amazing how many of y'all are out there.

It's time to seize power!  We have the numbers!

Chris Hamilton

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 22:56:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn questions

On Tue, 9 Sep 1997, slawlor wrote:

> Hi there.  I got film works 6 and it says it has tracks from crystalnacht,
> (sorry for the horrible spelling) and locus solis.  I have both of these
> disks and can't find anything on fw6 that even resembles these recordings.
> It also has some material from the early recordings of john zorn.

I think you're looking at a list of other recordings available from
Tzadik in the Archival series.

> and, I'm still not sure what the point of
> locus solis is?

The impression I get from Zorn's liner notes to the Eva CD (are these
reprinted on the Tzadik CD? if not, i could post them) is that Locus Solus
was an attempt to do free improvised punk rock.  I think I've read
somewhere that DNA was the specific model.  That sounds plausible to me,
and of course Arto Lindsay and Ikue Mori both play on the record.  This is
probably my favorite Zorn record, although I wouldn't say it's his best
work.

Chris Hamilton

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 23:11:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #117

On Sat, 6 Sep 1997, Andr Godin wrote:

> I'v been wanting to check out Air ever since I discovered their leader
> Henry Threadgill a few years back.  I read that they use to tune their
> drums to specific notes in order to play melodicaly.  Anyways, anyone
> known if their stuff has been rereleased on cd?  And if so, who
> distributes it?

There have definitely been CD reissues on RCA, Nessa, and
Black Saint.  The August _Cadence_ lists the excellent Nessa _Air Time_ as
in stock.  The RCA _Air Lore_ with Threadgill's arrangements of classic
tunes by Scott Joplin and Jelly Roll Morton is probably theideal starting
point, but I think it's out of print.

Chris Hamilton

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:04:35 UT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Still Melvins

Sorry I'm late on this.
1) Bassists: Matt Lukin of Mudhoney was the Melvins first bassist and I think he
did the Deep Six stuff and the 10 Songs LP on C/Z.  Then came Lorax, or Laurie
Black, herion-soaked daughter of Shirley Temple Black (yes).  She started with
Gluey Porch Treatments and Ozma (which were produced by current bassist Mark
Deutrom) Then Joe Preston, who CAME from the band Earth, who I believe continued
on without him which is why Earth 3 sounds so wimpy.  (Earth 1 has Kurt Kobain
on it, for those who care.)  Then Mark, who joined for Stoner Witch, because
Lorax's heroin problem got to much of a pain to deal with.  Lots of times they
toured without her because she couldn't handle the road with her addiction.
2) Best albums: Everyone's overlooking Bullhead which is I believe the seminal
Melvin's album, along with maybe EggNog and Ozma.  However, if you are looking
for the most Zorn-esque stuff, Ozma is probably the best bet.  The stop-start
choppy prog of this album is the closest match to Naked City of them all,
probably.  In fact, I think I'll listen to it right now.
3) New stuff: I think experimentation is fine and they are doing it, but I wish
they'd produce better experiments.  I'm a longtime Melvin's fan and I think that
they have done some great different experimental stuff (Charmicarmicat, Lysol,
Pearl Bomb, Spread Eagle Beagle, most of the middle 'ambientish' songs on Stag)
but Honky blows and Prick is pretty much insufferable.  A lot of good ideas and
great sounds, but just poor execution.  They could have shaped the songs much
better I think.  Put out an 'album' rather than a collection of four-track
doodlings.

My two cents on the Melvins issue.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:04:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: "k.   drudge" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn questions

On Tue, 9 Sep 1997, Christopher Hamilton wrote:
>
> The impression I get from Zorn's liner notes to the Eva CD (are these
> reprinted on the Tzadik CD? if not, i could post them) is that Locus Solus
> was an attempt to do free improvised punk rock.  I think I've read
> somewhere that DNA was the specific model.  That sounds plausible to me,

(the tzadik release does indeed have (presumably the same) liner notes.)
This seems to suggest that DNA would be worth checking out, at least
for fans of locus solus.  Does anyone have anything to say about this
band?
Keldon

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:30:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brent Burton <[e-mail]>
Subject: DNA

On Wed, 10 Sep 1997, k. drudge wrote:

> This seems to suggest that DNA would be worth checking out, at least
> for fans of locus solus.  Does anyone have anything to say about this
> band?

The only DNA (Arto Lindsay, Ikue Mori and some other guy on bass) record
in print right now is the "Live at CBGB's" CD on Avant.  This is very
late in DNA's career and the sound isn't stellar, but you can definitely
hear where Zorn got his inspiration for projects like Locus Solus.
DNA took rock out just about as far as possible while still rocking.

DNA (along with Mars, The Contortions and Teenage Jesus & the Jerks[?])
were also included on the Brian Eno-produced "No New York" compilation
album.  In recent yrs this document has taken on collector status and the
last time I saw a copy, the owner wanted $60.  You'd be better off spending
$18 on the Avant CD and then buying the Mars compilation on Atavistic if yr
still interested in the No Wave scene.

b

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:18:11 +0200
From: Olivier NGUYEN VAN TAN <[e-mail]>
Subject: No Idea, Misha Mengelberg

Hi,

I 've just bought the new Misha Mengelberg CD : No Idea with Baron and =
Cohen. The music is very cool : a kind of Herbie Nichols jazz with great =
moments from Joey Baron and Greg Cohen.

Very quite but with some lyrical moments full of grace !

Track Listing :
No idea : Misha Mengelberg
Begin the beguine : Cole Porter
You don't know what love is : Don Raye_Gene Depaul
House party starting : Herbie Nichols
I 'm getting sentimental over you : Ned Washignton
The mooche : Duke Ellington
September song : Maxwell Anderson - Kurt Weill
Someone to watch over me : Georges Gershin




Olivier

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:46:51 -0700
From: Anish Kejariwal <[e-mail]>
Subject: opinions on Shea's new CD?

Does anyone have an opinion on the newest David Shea CD, Satyricon?  I'm
trying to decide whether I should buy it or save money (I'm strapped for
cash right now).  Thanks.

Anish

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:08:32 -0700
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: opinions on Shea's new CD?

>Does anyone have an opinion on the newest David Shea CD, Satyricon?  I'm
>trying to decide whether I should buy it or save money (I'm strapped for
>cash right now).  Thanks.

well, the fact that i've only played it once since getting it two months
ago might imply that i wasn't as excited about this one as with the
previous several albums.  my recollection is that this one had less
jazz/exotica flavorings and more string based soundscapes.

on the other hand, mike at dropbeat (where i think you can get it for
$14.98 or $13.98) tells me that it's his favorite and that he was blown
away to not hear samplers and turntables for a change.  i imagine that if
you head into dropbeat he'll let you listen to it so you can decide.

alexander

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:26:49 -0600
From: Brian Carlson <[e-mail]>
Subject: back to bacharach

For those of you who don't get the Knitting Factory Knotes, this was
advertised there this month.


Radical Jewish Culture

Do you know the way to San Jose?  John Zorn & friends point the way & honor
the great Jewish-American composer Burt Bacharach.

back to bacharach

Sunday, Sept 14th at 4pm and 8pm

John Zorn, curator

4pm-Program A: with Erik Friedlander, Chris Speed, Andrew D'Angelo, Drew
Gress, Dave DOuglas, Myra Melford, Badal Roy, Guy Klucevsek, Marie
McAuliffe, others

8pm-Program B: with Anthony Coleman, Joey Baron, Ellery Eskelln, Josh
Roseman, Marc Ribot, Medeski Martin & Wood, others

Tickets:
2 concert combo: $25; single tickets $17.50

Box Office  212-501-3330

Merkin Concert Hall
Abraham Goodman House  129 W. 67th St.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 23:07:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: DNA

On Wed, 10 Sep 1997, Brent Burton wrote:

> (Arto Lindsay, Ikue Mori and some other guy on bass)

An afterthought.  The bassist is Tim Wright, the original bassist from
Pere Ubu.  That may be additional incentive for Ubu fans, if there any
others on this list.

Chris Hamilton

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 23:05:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: DNA

On Wed, 10 Sep 1997, Brent Burton wrote:

> DNA (along with Mars, The Contortions and Teenage Jesus & the Jerks[?])
> were also included on the Brian Eno-produced "No New York" compilation
> album.  In recent yrs this document has taken on collector status and the
> last time I saw a copy, the owner wanted $60.

Keep an eye out for bargains, though.  A friend of mine got this in a
dollar bin two years ago.  Also unavailable from DNA: _A Taste of DNA_,
the one record (I think) they put out while they were in existence.  If
you find either of these, you should send them to me :^).  One track from
the latter is included on a 2-CD American Clave sampler, which is mostly
Kip Hanrahan tracks.  It's a good buy if you're sure you'll like Kip
Hanrahan, but aren't already a fan.  (If you are a fan, you'll already own
all the Hanrahan tracks, which are readily available.)  There are also
some unusually abstract and unrocklike DNA tracks on a 2LP set called _the
fruit of the original sin_.  To my knowledge, this has never been reissued
on CD, but it's apparently less sought after by collectors than the above
items, as I got it pretty cheaply.  So far as I know, that's it for DNA on
record.  A sadly underrecorded band.

Chris Hamilton

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:47:34 -0700
From: Schwitterz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Pere Ubu

Christopher Hamilton wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Sep 1997, Brent Burton wrote:
>
> > (Arto Lindsay, Ikue Mori and some other guy on bass)
>
> An afterthought.  The bassist is Tim Wright, the original bassist from
> Pere Ubu.  That may be additional incentive for Ubu fans, if there any
> others on this list.
>
> Chris Hamilton

Now David Thomas, there's a delightful musician...saw him recently with
Two Pale boys...wearing a fedora and a big red butcher's apron...playing a
bandoneon taped together with duct tape...swilling liquor from a matal
flask to medicate a very bad cold which only served to stoke his attitude
and his wheezing vocals...telling dadaist stories between songs from the
brilliant EREWHON as well as a brian wilson cover & Tammy Wynette's 'Stand
By Your Man'...brilliant accompaniment by the Pale ones...sounded almost
as good as DUB HOUSING era ubu at the Whiskey a million years ago...he was
playing Luna Park, a trendy Hollywood club..."opening" for a funk-dance
band...when he did not leave the stage "on time" they turned off the stage
lights on him, resulting in a  more than justified Pere Tantrum...I'll
never patronize that establishment again, but I hope the good Mr. Thomas
graces the ungracious SoCalifornia with his wiles again soon...

Sz

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 01:12:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Newgarden <[e-mail]>
Subject: The Art of Remembrance (fwd)

forwarded (Bar Kokhba - soundtrack) fyi: Port Washington is 30 minutes
from Manhattan on LIRR...

Our film on Simon Wiesenthal: The Art Of Remembrance will be shown on
September 19, at 12:10 p.m. at the PORT WASHINGTON LIBRARY in Port
Washington, NY 11050. [phone].
Johanna and myself will be there for A&Q after the screening.
Best regards,
Johanna Heer & Werner Schmiedel

------------------------------

End of zorn-list Digest V2 #119
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