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zorn-list Digest      Tuesday, September 9 1997      Volume 02 : Number 118



In this issue:

    Re: preZorn
    Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #117
    Re: rec.music.bluenote
    Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #117
    Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #116
    Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #116
    Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #117
    Rashaan Roland Kirk
    Step Across the Border
    "downtown"
    Re: Step Across the Border
    How do I subscribe to the Digest Format?
    Hidden picture in Duras:Duchamp
    Re: Hidden picture in Duras:Duchamp
    Speedfreaks
    Rhino charged
    RE: Speedfreaks
    Re: Speedfreaks
    Rhino charged
    New York In Los Angeles
    masada 8
    Re: Speedfreaks
    pfMENTUM

See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the zorn-list
or zorn-list-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 15:43:48 +0200 (GMT+0200)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: preZorn

On Thu, 4 Sep 1997, Julian wrote:

> Can someone enlighten me as to what was going on (in the way of jazz or
> experimental music) in New York before the likes of Zorn, Frisell, Horvitz
> etc.?

there's a book what compiles articles/reviews of some guy (forgot the
name) who (used to?) write to village voice... the title? forgot... i
know i'm all too helpful today... :)  'writings about new music' or
something pretty boring... but it was a great book. a slight emphasis
towards minimalism - reich, glass, brancha, chatham, la monte young all
get covered - althought non-minimalist artists like zorn appear on later
articles.

i loaned it from somewhere long time ago. hmmm, better dig it up. has
some quite entertaining stuff, quite long article about music on pinball
machines for example...


 teemu, i think...

:::: e-mail [e-mail] ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:::: ruumen: http://www.siba.fi/~tkorpipa/ruumen.html :::::::::::::::
'You only got one finger left and it's pointing at the door' - beck -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 09:52:55 -0400
From: Perfect Sound Forever <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #117

At 07:39 PM 9/5/97 -0600, you wrote:
>
>Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 19:15:03 -0800
>From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re:  preZorn
>
>Some libraries will have a couple of books that cover this material: the
>Voice of New Music by Tom Johnson (composer & critic for the Village
>Voice), published by Apollohuis in Eindhoven, the Netherlands.  &
>Experimental Music by Michael Nyman, published by Schirmer, I think.  The
>current Village Voice new music critic, Kyle Gann, has a forthcoming book
>that sounds like it will deal with this in part, though unlike the Johnson
>book, it isnt' a collection of columns from the Voice.

Great info here.  Do you have these books?  Which artists are described there?

I would also recommend John Rockwell's ALL-AMERICAN MUSIC.  It features
chapters on Milton Babbitt, Elliott Carter, John Cage, Robert Ashley, David
Behrman, Max Neuhaus and others.

Jason

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 09:12:30 -0700
From: Jason Edward Kocol <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: rec.music.bluenote

> It's really too bad. I used to enjoy reading that group. THere ware some
> open minded folks there, and one could learn alot about the music.

     You know, I have never checked out that newsgroup, but if the
content was how you put it, I don't plan on doing it anytime soon.  :)
     However, the term "open-mined" can be very much misunderstood.  How
I like to see it, and maybe others do to, is that you'll at least give
something a chance BEFORE you either love it to death or can't stand it
and feel the need to put it down (even though I am not for insulting
anyone's artistic expression).  I DON'T see open-minded as being
required by some unwritten rule that you have to like EVERYTHING. No one
can be rightfully EXPECTED to like everything.  There is music that is
out there that I cannot stand, yet how did I get that way?  Well, I
carefully listened and payed attention, and through that form of
"research" I found my reasons for not liking it, and that's the end of
it.
     Some of us who enjoy music that either pushes the limits or
experiments choose to call others that don't enjoy what we like
close-minded.  That, I believe, is just writing them off.  Sure, most
people don't give it a chance, and there's your close-mindedness, but
for those who DID hear it first and then decided, no one can persecute
them for trying.  At least they did the music a favor by giving it a
listen.
     Sorry if this is considered a rant, but I think it's something that
may need to be addressed and thought about.  Take care all.

- -Jason
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/2569/Suburban.html
http://members.tripod.com/~misterlazy

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 14:19:09 -0300
From: AndrΘ Godin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #117

> In addition to the jazz stuff mentioned by others, I'd highly recommend
> checking out Air, who were really great and I gather made a big impact on
> the NYC scene in the mid-70's.
>
> Chris Hamilton

I'v been wanting to check out Air ever since I discovered their leader
Henry Threadgill a few years back.  I read that they use to tune their
drums to specific notes in order to play melodicaly.  Anyways, anyone
known if their stuff has been rereleased on cd?  And if so, who
distributes it?

Andre Godin

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 14:44:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (joel lewis)
Subject: Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #116

>
>Can someone enlighten me as to what was going on (in the way of jazz or
>experimental music) in New York before the likes of Zorn, Frisell, Horvitz
>etc.?

yowie! big subject.... but the main venue in the mid-seventies was the
Kitchen, where zorn often played.... biggies were steve reich and philip
glass who played often and cheaply (saw reich's music for 18 musicians for
free at old custom house in '78)... jazz was struggling in the period, but
there was a big loft jazz scene in noho at ladies's fort sam rivers' studio
rivbea and others-- david murray geys his start here (stanley crouch was
playing drums w/ him at the time!).. this scene was a definite influence on
downtown boys as the loft scene were definite d.iy. types w/ their
ownlabels and concert promtions.. and let's not forget glen branca and the
whole scene around john cage that included folks like philip corner,
etc.... also cage himself-- saw his 65th b'day concert at whitnet where two
works were premiered (tickets: 2 dollars!!) bottom l;line was that there
was much availible stuff if you knew where to look,, in fact, my best emory
of zorn in the period was his working at the soho music gallery , a record
store on broome street, as his music was not paying the bills at the
time..... zorn has often talked about how exciting the non-trad music scene
of the 70's was....

joellewis

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 15:34:30 -0500
From: ⌠⌠ <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #116

joel lewis wrote:
> in fact, my best memory
> of zorn in the period was his working at the soho music gallery , a
> record store on broome street, as his music was not paying the bills
> at the time...

     What a great store! besides the downtown stuff they had an amazing
jazz section. I was allways able to find the latest OGUN Lp's there.
I actually bought my copy of Archery from jz at SMG, and I remember
Anton Fier working there too. Zorn was allways happy to point out
recordings he was fond of,  and make suggestions to those who asked.
That store is definitly missed. Downtown Music is just too small to
carry all the stuff SMG did, and Tower is the pits, although its worth
noting that Guitarist Myles Boisen, and Bassist Melvin Gibbs both worked
in the Tower Jazz dept, during the early 80's. Kind of ironic, given the
ongoing thread (here and in rmb), about today's moronic record store
employees.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 13:47:11 -0700
From: Schwitterz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #117

Andr=E9 Godin wrote:

> > In addition to the jazz stuff mentioned by others, I'd highly recomme=
nd
> > checking out Air, who were really great and I gather made a big impac=
t on
> > the NYC scene in the mid-70's.
> >
> > Chris Hamilton
>
> I'v been wanting to check out Air ever since I discovered their leader
> Henry Threadgill a few years back.  I read that they use to tune their
> drums to specific notes in order to play melodicaly.  Anyways, anyone
> known if their stuff has been rereleased on cd?  And if so, who
> distributes it?
>
> Andre Godin

When the going gets tough, I recommend Cadence Northcountry for tracking =
things
down.  They have a wonderful person on staff, "Slim," whose job is to fin=
d hard
to find things.

Phone:  [phone]
http://cadencebuilding.com
Slim:  [e-mail]
orders: [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 19:32:49 -0400
From: max <[e-mail]>
Subject: Rashaan Roland Kirk

It seems to me that Zorn must have been influenced by Kirk's attitude
towards music, and his role in expanding the limits of traditional jazz.
Has anyone read or heard interviews where Zorn lists him as an
influence?

Max

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 20:11:53 -0400
From: max <[e-mail]>
Subject: Step Across the Border

Has Anyone seen this film? It has such a great soundtrack (Frith,
Parkins, Cora, Laswell, Zorn, et. al.). Has it been released on video?

Max

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 23:10:56 +1000
From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: "downtown"

Thankyou very much to everyone who answered my question about the pre-Zorn
era in New York. Now, I have a much shorter and probably simpler-to-answer
question.
Recently, I've been hearing a lot about the word "downtown". Is this term:

- - used to describe the area in New York
- - used to describe the music style
  or
- - both of the above...?

And also, when did this term come into use? (sorry for all these lame
questions, I'm doing research for a project.)

Thanks,
Research Boy

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 15:36:40 +0200 (MESZ)
From: BJOERN <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Step Across the Border

> Has Anyone seen this film? It has such a great soundtrack (Frith,
> Parkins, Cora, Laswell, Zorn, et. al.). Has it been released on video?
>
> Max
>
yepp here in germany it is available.......i dont know exactly what
company released it but i`ll find out...

BJOERN

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 20:54:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Rich Ladew)
Subject: How do I subscribe to the Digest Format?

Zorniacs:
I need help.  I cant read all these messages fast enough, and I need to turn
over to the digest format.  I would've emailed Mike Rizzi, but I lost the
address.  Please help!!!

Much Respect,
Rich

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 21:59:40 +0000
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Hidden picture in Duras:Duchamp

Hi,

I just bought Duras:Duchamp today and enjoying it as well, when I saw
behind the CD holder some colours. I removed the holder to find a
picture of a naked woman (possibly dead) lying on the ground with a
candle in her hand. Just sharing info.

Jeremy
Harry
CUSTOM T-CLUB
[e-mail]
1-888-TEE-CLUB (1-888-533-2582)
Tel:[phone]  Fax: [phone]
980 Alness St., Unit #30,
Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
M3J 2S2

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 17:29:39 +0900
From: katsuhiro hayasaka <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Hidden picture in Duras:Duchamp

That is a Duchamp`s last work.

See http://www.val.net/~tim/duchamp-aug96.html

But I`m wondering, what is the meaning of ETANT DONNES ?

- --
katsuhiro hayasaka  [e-mail]
Tokyo, Japan.

[e-mail] wrote
>Hi,
>
>I just bought Duras:Duchamp today and enjoying it as well, when I saw
>behind the CD holder some colours. I removed the holder to find a
>picture of a naked woman (possibly dead) lying on the ground with a
>candle in her hand. Just sharing info.
>
>Jeremy
>Harry
>CUSTOM T-CLUB
>[e-mail]
>1-888-TEE-CLUB (1-888-533-2582)
>Tel:[phone]  Fax: [phone]
>980 Alness St., Unit #30,
>Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
>M3J 2S2
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 00:08:59 +1000
From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Speedfreaks

I've been listening to a great deal of Naked City lately, and showing some
fellow listeners some of the more insane tracks, including Speedfreaks.
Most of them ask me whether this song was done with editing or was it
really just excellent playing. At first I thought well they're great
musicians, they could handle those changes, since even I after a few
listens could spot the changes and play along. But then I thought maybe
they didn't put that much into the song, maybe they did just cut and paste.
Does anyone know for sure, or have any really convincing (or interesting)
theories?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 11:00:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: "David J. Strauss" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Rhino charged

> > Can someone point me towards more information on these guys?

I think some of MEV's music is featured in the film "Zabriske Point,"
although they aren't on the actual soundtrack album.

True. And Rhino just re-released the Zabriske soundtrack as a 2 CD set,
with no MEV. In fact, the first disc actually has LESS music than the LP,
as they don't include a Roy Orbison song that wasn't hip-pie enough.
Rather than include MEV or more of John Fahey's unused improvisations
(they may have dissappeared, actually), they dedicate the 2nd disc to
out-takes by Jerry Garcia and Pink Floyd. At least they spent some money
on the packaging.

DS
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 09:39:12 -0700
From: mike burma <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Speedfreaks

From:     Julian
>I've been listening to a great deal of Naked City lately, and showing some
>fellow listeners some of the more insane tracks, including Speedfreaks.
>Most of them ask me whether this song was done with editing or was it
>really just excellent playing.

>Does anyone know for sure, or have any really convincing (or interesting)
>theories?

    At a live performance in San Francisco, they played 'Speedfreaks'
    perfectly. I just stood there with the bottom of my jaw touching
    the top of my shoes. Twas remarkable.

    burma

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 12:46:43 -0400
From: Mason Wendell <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Speedfreaks

At 12:08 AM 9/9/97 +1000, you wrote:
>I've been listening to a great deal of Naked City lately, and showing some
>fellow listeners some of the more insane tracks, including Speedfreaks.
>Most of them ask me whether this song was done with editing or was it
>really just excellent playing. At first I thought well they're great
>musicians, they could handle those changes, since even I after a few
>listens could spot the changes and play along. But then I thought maybe
>they didn't put that much into the song, maybe they did just cut and paste.
>Does anyone know for sure, or have any really convincing (or interesting)
>theories?
>
>
>
>

None of the music that Naked City played was recorded using
Cut'n'Paste-style overdubs. Including Speedfreaks. During rehearsal, the
band would decide on specific arrangement points, (like who would play
which particular line, what samples for Horvitz to play, etc) and and work
the tune up to where they could play it in one go live or in he studio. NC,
like Masada and unlike projcts like Spillane and Elegy, was Zorn's live
band at the time. And what really makes the pieces work is that they are
each played wholly and completly and not pieced together in the studio.

Also, I'm putting my band Prelapse back together now. Those of you who've
been on the list since the early days might remember us as the band that
played the music of Naked City from Zorn's scores. Well, that's ezactly
what we're doing now but we're also adding new original works of our own
into the mix. So if anyone out there could give me a lead on any possible
gigs in the northeast US, we'd really appreciate it.
                        Mason Wendell
    Blinder- http://www.tiac.net/users/prelapse/blinder.html
               Sigmoid Flexure- Loud Free Improv
Prelapse- the music of Naked City and new music for loud ensemble
              Freelance Computer Music Copying

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 13:23:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: "David J. Strauss" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Rhino charged

> > Can someone point me towards more information on these guys?

> I think some of MEV's music is featured in the film "Zabriske Point,"
> although they aren't on the actual soundtrack album.

True. And Rhino just re-released the Zabriske soundtrack as a 2 CD set,
with no MEV. In fact, the first disc actually has LESS music than the LP,
as they don't include a Roy Orbison song that wasn't hip-pie enough.
Rather than include MEV or more of John Fahey's unused improvisations
(they may have dissappeared, actually), they dedicate the 2nd disc to
sub-par out-takes by Jerry Garcia and Pink Floyd. At least they spent
some money on the packaging.

DS
[e-mail]


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 11:21:18 -0700
From: Schwitterz <[e-mail]>
Subject: New York In Los Angeles

the owner of the Knitting Factory is guest DJ on KCRW [Santa Monica]
even as I type...tomorrow Bill Laswell will be doing the same from
11am-noon...

Sz

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 22:10:46 +0100
From: "kevin cornish" <[e-mail]>
Subject: masada 8

hi all

can anyone tell me where to get masada 8 on DIW lable
on the internet

cd now only sell on EVA lable

many thanks [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 18:44:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Anthony 'Twizzler' Saunders" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Speedfreaks

On Tue, 9 Sep 1997, Julian wrote:

> I've been listening to a great deal of Naked City lately...

 Always a good thing...

> maybe they did just cut and paste.
> Does anyone know for sure, or have any really convincing (or interesting)
> theories?

 Well, someone I knew saw them live twice, and they pulled it off live, so
I assume it was actually played. Its too smooth for 89 to be cut ups... I
think...

 anthony (who just moved back to college and still owes people tapes,
dreadfully sorry, I'll get right on it...)

"You know, Arthur, when evil is afoot, and you don't have any arms,
you've gotta use your head.  And when evil is ahead and you're behind,
you've gotta do the legwork.  But, (dramatic pause) when you can't get a
leg up, you gotta be hip.  You gotta keep your chin up, and kick some..."
"Tick, we get the idea."
 - "Armless not harmless" espisode of The Tick

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 22:51:15 -0700
From: Schwitterz <[e-mail]>
Subject: pfMENTUM

For any interested SoCalifornians, and anyone else interested in
newsletter discussions:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

PRESS RELEASE

RE:  Ventura New Music Concert Series
FROM: Co-Directors Jeff Kaiser and Keith McMullen

We are pleased to announce the resurrection of the Ventura New Music
Concert Series (VNMCS) and the inauguration of a newsletter designed to
promote the series.

VNMCS began under the direction of Mr. Kaiser in 1989.  Over its initial
6 year existence, the series hosted world-class performances by West
Coast artists in a variety of locations throughout Ventura, from Art
City to City Hall.  The series has focused on contemporary music, from
chamber opera to creative improvised music.  Following a two-year
hiatus, we are excited to announce events upcoming.

The newsletter, pfMENTUM, will be published prior to each performance
and will provide information on upcoming events, interviews, and
music-related editorials.  We hope to stimulate interest in, and
dialogue about, the continuing vitality of music in contemporary
culture.  Subscriptions are free.

To receive the initial copy, please contact Jeff Kaiser in one of the
following ways:

Phone:  [phone]
Mail:   PO Box 1653, Ventura CA 93002
E-Mail: [e-mail]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The first performance will be in November...a double-quartet featuring
Vinnie Golia on reeds, performing a composition by Jeff Kaiser...first
newsletter mid-October...

Sz

------------------------------

End of zorn-list Digest V2 #118
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