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zorn-list Digest       Friday, September 5 1997       Volume 02 : Number 117



In this issue:

    Frisell dates
    Re:  preZorn
    Zorn Scores?
    Re: Frisell dates
    Re:  preZorn
    Re: Rivbea
    Re: preZorn
    Re:  preZorn
    Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #116
    Re: Official Buckethead Web site
    RMB
    MEV
    Re: preZorn
    Re: RMB
    painkiller re-release
    BCMA Fall Schedule, w/ Cul de Sac's Faust soundtrack
    Re: Rivbea

See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the zorn-list
or zorn-list-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 17:27:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Frisell dates

Here are some Bill Frisell dates, if anyone's interested.

PAUL MOTIAN TRIO FEATURING BILL FRISELL & JOE LOVANO
Tues Sept. 16 thru
Sun. Sept. 21         Village Vanguard, NYC
BILL FRISELL QUARTET (w/ RON MILES, CURTIS FOWLKES & EYVIND KANG)
Wed, Sept. 24        Harn Museum, Gainesville, FL
Thur, Sept. 25        Variety Playhouse, Atlanta, GA
Fri, Sept. 26        Laurel Theater, Knoxville, TN
Sun, Sept. 28        Outpost, Albuquerque, NM
Mon, Sept. 29         Outpost, Albuquerque, NM
Wed, Oct. 1         Santa Fe Music Hall, Santa Fe, NM
Fri, Oct. 3          Boulder Theater, Boulder, CO
Sat, Oct. 4         Bates Recital Hall, UT Austin, TX
JOEY BARON'S DOWN HOME BAND feat. BILL FRISELL, ARTHUR BLYTHE & RON CARTER
Wed & Thu, Oct. 15 &16    Knitting Factory, NYC
BILL FRISELL'S NASHVILLE TRIO feat. JERRY DOUGLAS & VIKTOR KRAUSS
Wed, Oct. 22         Caffe Milano, Nashville, TN
Thur, Oct. 23         The Walker, Minneapolis, MN
Fri, Oct. 24        Museum of Our Nat'l Heritage, Lexington, MA
Sat, Oct. 25        St. Ann's, Brooklyn, NY
BILL FRISELL / JOEY BARON DUO
Sat, Nov. 1        Fasching Club, Stockholm, SWEDEN
Mon, Nov. 3        Sardinen USF, Bergen, NORWAY
Tues, Nov. 4        Sting, Stavenger, NORWAY
Wed, Nov. 5        Jazz House, Copenhagen, DENMARK
Thu, Nov. 6        Vooruit Arts Centre, Gent, BELGIUM
Sat, Nov. 8        Bimbuls, Amsterdam, HOLLAND
Sun, Nov. 9        pending Koln, GERMANY
Mon, Nov. 10        pending The Hague, HOLLAND
Tues, Nov. 11        pending Firenze, ITALY
Wed, Nov. 12        pending Catanzaro, ITALY
Thur, Nov. 13        Strasbourg, FRANCE
Fri, Nov. 14        Nevers, FRANCE
Sat, Nov. 15        Belfast, NORTHERN IRELAND

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 19:15:03 -0800
From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:  preZorn

>Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 16:16:11 +1000
>From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
>Subject: preZorn
>
>Can someone enlighten me as to what was going on (in the way of jazz or
>experimental music) in New York before the likes of Zorn, Frisell, Horvitz
>etc.?

Other people have already covered the improvised music scene pretty well,
so I'll just limit my comments to the experimental side of things

Non-academic new music composers active before Zorn included folks
associated with John Cage, both composers writing for "classical
instruments like Morton Feldman, Christian Wolff, etc. & those creating
pieces for live elctronics like David Tudor, the MEVgang (Alvin Curran,
Richard Teitelbaum) minimalists (including lots of people who didn't &
still don't use repetitive patterns), Robert Ashley & people associated
with the 1960s ONCE group and/or the Center for Contemporary Music in Bay
area during the 1970s (many recording on the label Lovely Music document
these folks).

Performing venues in NY included Experimental Intermedia Foundation (still
sctive in the same place on Centre St in Chinatown) the Kitchen (now in
Chelsea), and lots of loft spaces that don't exist anymore.  While Roulette
may be best known as a venue for downtown improvisors, it also presented
many composers & performers who had (& still have) little to do with this
scene.

Some libraries will have a couple of books that cover this material: the
Voice of New Music by Tom Johnson (composer & critic for the Village
Voice), published by Apollohuis in Eindhoven, the Netherlands.  &
Experimental Music by Michael Nyman, published by Schirmer, I think.  The
current Village Voice new music critic, Kyle Gann, has a forthcoming book
that sounds like it will deal with this in part, though unlike the Johnson
book, it isnt' a collection of columns from the Voice.

Looking at the new music scene in NY in reference to the downtown
improvisors skews things to the extent that there was, and continues to be,
a prety strong scene there that existed prior to the arrival of this set of
folks.


Herb Levy
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 21:11:01 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Douglas Tapia)
Subject: Zorn Scores?

Greetings:

I am involved in a newly formed contemporary music ensemble that is
attempting to bring the work of composers of the last 20-30 years to the
ears of America's heartland.  (Greeley, Colorado to be exact.)  I have a
particular interest in bringing the works of the more cutting edge
"underground" New York composers to light.

Does anybody know if there are any Zorn scores available?  I remember
somebody on the list saying that they had the scores to a game piece or
two.  Are there "scores" available for any of the Cobra stuff or perhaps
Bar Kokhba/Masada Chamber Ensemble scores floating around out there?

We would also be interested in scores of Wayne Horwitz's music, Bill
Laswell's music, Joey Baron's music (e.g. _Raised Pleasure Dot_), etc.

If anyone has access to this type of material or knows where I might be
able to find it, I would be much in your debt if you would e-mail me to let
me know.  Our first date is set for Oct. 12, and it would be great to have
at least one Zorn piece on this concert.

Thanks,


Doug Tapia
General Manager, MTP

UNC Music Tech Press
University of Northern Colorado
Fraiser 108
Greeley, CO 80639

Voice: 970-351-2614
Fax: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]

http://arts.univnorthco.edu/mtp

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 23:31:24 -0400
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Frisell dates

[e-mail] wrote:

> JOEY BARON'S DOWN HOME BAND feat. BILL FRISELL, ARTHUR BLYTHE & RON
> CARTER
> Wed & Thu, Oct. 15 &16  Knitting Factory, NYC

I got a look at the September/October Knitting Factory program guide
today (pathetic skimpy skinny little thing...) and I noticed that while
Frisell and Carter are confirmed, the saxophonist is listed as TBA.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 00:35:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:  preZorn

On Thu, 4 Sep 1997, Herb Levy wrote:

> the MEVgang (Alvin Curran,
> Richard Teitelbaum)

Can someone point me towards more information on these guys?  I'm aware of
recent work by Curran and Teitelbaum, but my only familiarity with MEV is
a short film of a late-60's performance which really knowcked me on my
ass.

Chris Hamilton

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 00:30:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Rivbea

On Thu, 4 Sep 1997, Brent Burton wrote:

> Another great way to get a handle on the downtown loft scene that
> preceded Zorn's emergence is to check out Douglas Records "Wildflower"
> series, which were all recorded @ Sam Rivers' loft.  The one I have
> features tracks from David Murray, Julius Hemphill, Anthony Braxton,
> Jimmy Lyons, Hamiet Bluiett and Oliver Lake.  These haven't been
> reissued that I know of, but sometimes you can find 'em for cheap and
> I bet that there is an entire collection to be found on this list (if
> only for taping purposes).

These were issued on CD in 1995 by a label called Gravity.  The volume I
own doesn't have an address, I'm afraid, but it appears to be a French
label.  More readily available are two recent DIW's, _Hell's Kitchen_ and
_Back on 52nd Street_, both part of the "Live from Soundscape" series.
These were recorded later (_Hell's Kitchen_ 1978-1983, _Back on 52nd
Street_ 1980-1981; _Wildflowers_ is from 1976) and so don't really predate
Zorn's emergence.  But they do convey a similar sense of what the loft
scene was like.  (I don't know how authentic that sense is, as I wasn't
there.)  _Hell's Kitchen_ also features Don Cherry soloing for eight
minutes on a stalagmite in Mammoth Cave.

Chris Hamilton

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 00:40:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: preZorn

In addition to the jazz stuff mentioned by others, I'd highly recommend
checking out Air, who were really great and I gather made a big impact on
the NYC scene in the mid-70's.

Chris Hamilton

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 22:32:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:  preZorn

On Fri, 5 Sep 1997, Christopher Hamilton wrote:

> Can someone point me towards more information on these guys?

unfortunately, i don't know much
about MEV (would like to know
more!), but i do knwo there is a
CD from an old performance that
is available through Anomalous
and Forced Exposure.

hasta.

Yes.  Beautiful, wonderful nature.  Hear it sing to us: *snap*  Yes.  natURE.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 01:05:29 -0600
From: joshua herrin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #116

Jody wrote:

> Buckethead sells them himself for like 22 dollars, new.  If you go
> to his official website, I think there is an order form there, and
> you can also order his other cd's, and some cassette only releases.

Where is his official website located? I did a net search  for about 20
minutes and found nothing.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 07:48:08 -0400
From: "Andy Marks" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Official Buckethead Web site

http://www.spiderwerks.com/bucketheadland/

------------------------------

Date:
From: Sean Terwilliger <[e-mail]>
Subject: RMB

Hey!

Following is an excerpt from rec.music.bluenote from a thread about the
attitude of big chain record store employees.

> >
> >"This is Memphis Slim, Lonnie Johnson, Lightnin' Hopkins.  They're
> >hardly obscure."  I should have apologized that these discs weren't
> >European electronica/trance/dub remixes of something I already bought
> >last month, i.e., the sort of music Tower likes to blast over their
> >sound systems to ensure brief visits by anyone under twenty.
>
> Hey, you can thank Laswell for some of this.  Really hard shit to be open minded
> about...

Geez, these folks are such narrow minded a**holes. This follows another
thread about how bad it is to do dub remixes of "classic" jazz.

Anybody wonder about whether Coltrane's version of My Favorite Things
(for example) was an expansion of an existing "classic"? How about the
myriad of other "classic" jazz tunes that are in fact reworkings of
older tunes? That sure seems OK. I wonder if Bill hired a band to replay
these Miles tracks in dub, if the rmb elite would think it was ok.

Happily, someone responded to the dreck above:

>(In best Ronald Reagan voice)-- "Well, there you go again, George..."
>
>C'mon. Cut this ridiculous crap out. Really. C'mon.
>
>(This time as Tina Turner [the most happening looking 50ish/nearly 60ish
>woman on Earth])--
>"What's Laswell, got to do, got to do with it?"
>"What's Laswell, but a Jazz-Re-cord-Produ-cer?..."
>
>C'mon man. Laswell has nothing to do with "spoiling the musical tastes of
>America".
>And he has nothing whatsoever to do with bad management and customer
>service at Virgin, Tower, Sam Goody, or Media Play. He really doesn't.
>
It's really too bad. I used to enjoy reading that group. THere ware some
open minded folks there, and one could learn alot about the music.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 12:29:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brent Burton <[e-mail]>
Subject: MEV

On Thu, 4 Sep 1997, SUGAR in their vitamins? wrote:

> > Can someone point me towards more information on these guys?

I think some of MEV's music is featured in the film "Zabriske Point,"
although they aren't on the actual soundtrack album.  I also know that
MEV member Richard Teitelbaum has also released some rekkids with Anthony
Braxton.

b

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 12:41:52 -0400
From: Perfect Sound Forever <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: preZorn

>Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 13:18:37 -0500
>From: tx <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: preZorn
>
>Julian wrote:
>>
>> Can someone enlighten me as to what was going on (in the way of jazz or
>> experimental music) in New York before the likes of Zorn, Frisell, Horvitz
>> etc.?

>    You might want to check out Valerie Wilmers book "As serious as your
>Life" for a good overview of this stuff.

God yes!  This is one of the best books about music that I've ever read-
great stories, details and history everywhere.  The only thing I could ask
for is an updated edition.  Recently, she did an excellent article about
Sun Ra in the lastest issue of the Wire.

Jason

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 13:49:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: RMB

On Fri, 5 Sep 1997, Sean Terwilliger wrote:

> I wonder if Bill hired a band to replay
> these Miles tracks in dub, if the rmb elite would think it was ok.

I imagine many of them probably would.  Most RMBers seem to like to think
of the recording process as transparent.  I was especially amused by the
guy on the other thread you mentioned who wrote something like, "Dub's
fine, but wouldn't you rather hear an original piece of that kind of
music?"  An exceptional case of cluelessness.  I do still find RMB a good
source of info on jazz, though, as long as I stay away from the obvious
hot buttons (Laswell, electric Miles, Marsalis).

Chris Hamilton

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 16:20:40 -0500 (CDT)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: painkiller re-release

I've been putting off buying Painkiller's Execution Ground album ever since I
started hearing rumours that it was going to be re-released in a three disc
format on the Tzadik label. It's been a while since I heard anything about
this so I was wondering if anyone had any information regarding weather or not
it will see the light before the end of the year.

Thanks,

Jesse

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 19:54:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: BCMA Fall Schedule, w/ Cul de Sac's Faust soundtrack

Hey folks!  The Boston Creative Music Alliance is gearing up for an amazing
Fall Season at our new location!  Hope to see you at some if not all of the
shows!
Jonathan LaMaster
BCMA & UnSound Productions

The Boston Creative Music Alliance, winner of a 1997 Best of Boston Award
for its New Histories music series at the ICA, is pleased to announce an
expanded season of programming in a new venue. The fall season includes a
special monthly series featuring Boston-area performers, as well as
concerts by Marty Ehrlich and the Dark Woods Ensemble, and the Equal
Interest trio, featuring Joseph Jarman, Leroy Jenkins, and Myra Melford,
and the Dave Douglas Sextet.

All concerts will take place at the Dante Alighieri Society Cultural Center
at 41 Hampshire St., Cambridge. Conveniently located at the corner of
Hampshire and Portland St., near the Kendall Square cinema complex and the
pubs and restaurants at One Kendall Square, the Center seats more than 200
in an intimate performance space designed by world-renowned architect,
Pietro Belluschi. Only a five minute walk from the Kendall Square stop on
the Red Line, the Dante also had free parking in its adjoining lot. "We are
very pleased with our new home," says BCMA Director Gillian Levine, "The
Dante Alighieri Center is a beautiful facility with acoustic qualities that
are especially well suited to the kinds of bands we like to present."

All concerts will begin at 8pm. Tickets for the Boston Series are $10.
Tickets for all other concerts are $15. Tickets are available in advance at
Twisted Village, 12 Elliot St., Cambridge. [phone]. For further
information, photographs and press kits, call the BCMA [phone].

The BCMA Fall 1997 season includes:

Boston Series Thursday, September 11. Cul de Sac play a their soundtrack to
the silent film classic "Faust", by F.W. Murnau. Instrumental rock-based
improvisation from an iconoclastic quartet featuring Robin Amos on
synthesizer; Chris Fujiwara on bass; Glenn Jones on guitar; and Michael
Knoblach on drums.

Boston Series. Sunday, October 5. The Dave Bryant Quintet featuring George
Garzone. The concert debut of a dynamic harmolodic quintet led by the
keyboardist for Ornette Coleman and Prime Time. The band features
saxophonist George Garzone, bassist John Turner, and drummers Chris Bowman
and Bob Gullotti.

November 1. Marty Ehrlich and the Dark Woods Ensemble. In their Boston
debut, Ehrlich's chamber jazz ensemble, featuring cellist Eric Friedlander
and bassist Mark Helias, will play material from their recently released
double CD Live Wood (Music & Arts), recorded live during their 1996
European tour.

November 7. Equal Interest, featuring saxophonist Joseph Jarman, violinist
Leroy Jenkins, and pianist Myra Melford (Last heard in a sellout BCMA
concert with her own quintet, The Same River, Twice). The Boston debut of a
collaborative trio of new music masters whose self-titled CD debut, with
Lindsey Horner and Jeffry Shanzer is due in October from Ocean Records.

Boston Series. Thursday, November 13. Kobold. Saxophonist Steve Norton,
trombonist Tom Plsek, bassist Craig Schildhauer, and drummer Laurence Cook
celebrate the release of their debut CD on Eighth Day Records.

Wednesday, December 3, Dave Douglas Sextet. New music phenomenon Douglas,
impressive in his appearance with John Zorn's Masada at last year's BCMA
concert at the ICA, now brings his own sextet, featuring saxophonist Chris
Speed, trombonist Josh Roseman, pianist Uri Caine, bassist James Genus, and
drummer Ben Perowsky, for their Boston debut. Their new CD, Stargazer, a
tribute to Wayne Shorter, is scheduled for release in October. Exploring
the jazz tradition fresh, creative approach to the jazz tradition of the
1960s.

Boston series. Thursday December 11. Either/Orchestra. The BCMA is proud to
present the first Boston appearance by the Either/Orchestra  in a year. A
corner stone of new music in Boston and one of the leading big bands in the
US, this 10-piece ensemble .

The Boston Creative Music Alliance, a nonprofit corporation dedicated to
presenting new improvised music, gratefully acknowledges the support of the
Englehard Foundation, anonymous private donations,. Funded in part by a
grant from the New England Foundation for the Arts, and Meet the Composer,
Inc., with support from the Metropolitan Life Foundation and ASCAP, with
additional support from the Massachusetts Cultural Council, and the
National Endowment for the Arts. Design consultants: Tabula Rasa.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 21:51:37 -0400
From: Tom Pratt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Rivbea

Christopher Hamilton wrote:
>
> On Thu, 4 Sep 1997, Brent Burton wrote:
>
> > Another great way to get a handle on the downtown loft scene that
> > preceded Zorn's emergence is to check out Douglas Records "Wildflower"
> > series, which were all recorded @ Sam Rivers' loft.  The one I have
> > features tracks from David Murray, Julius Hemphill, Anthony Braxton,
> > Jimmy Lyons, Hamiet Bluiett and Oliver Lake.  These haven't been
> > reissued that I know of, but sometimes you can find 'em for cheap and
> > I bet that there is an entire collection to be found on this list (if
> > only for taping purposes).
>
> These were issued on CD in 1995 by a label called Gravity.  The volume I
> own doesn't have an address, I'm afraid, but it appears to be a French
> label.  More readily available are two recent DIW's, _Hell's Kitchen_ and
> _Back on 52nd Street_, both part of the "Live from Soundscape" series.
> These were recorded later (_Hell's Kitchen_ 1978-1983, _Back on 52nd
> Street_ 1980-1981; _Wildflowers_ is from 1976) and so don't really predate
> Zorn's emergence.  But they do convey a similar sense of what the loft
> scene was like.  (I don't know how authentic that sense is, as I wasn't
> there.)  _Hell's Kitchen_ also features Don Cherry soloing for eight
> minutes on a stalagmite in Mammoth Cave.
>
> Chris Hamilton

one of those 'Live From soundscape' albums has a recording of an
improvisation by George Lewis and Derek Bailey which I really like.
Those are some cool albums. Ed Blackwell is on one and Don Cherry etc.

            -Tom Pratt

------------------------------

End of zorn-list Digest V2 #117
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