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zorn-list Digest      Tuesday, September 2 1997      Volume 02 : Number 115



In this issue:

    Re: We again (was Re: new Eyvind Kang and Zorn request)
    Re: People paying for Zorn/Eye 100CD
    Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #114
    Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #114
    Re: We again (was Re: new Eyvind Kang and Zorn request)
    Re: The Parachute Box - wow!
    Arto Lindsay Live
    Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #104
    more on Frith-Zorn during the Parachute sessions
    low quality Zorn?
    Gainsbourg tribute
    Re: Leng T'che date, Slim's in SF, etc.
    Re: Pieces
    Bucketheadland
    Baron & Bowie?
    Re: Baron & Bowie?

See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the zorn-list
or zorn-list-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 18:24:52 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Dave Trenkel)
Subject: Re: We again (was Re: new Eyvind Kang and Zorn request)

At 9:00 PM 8/30/97, Patrick Carey wrote:
>Dave Trenkel wrote:
>
>>Also, I noticed Eyvind had a credit on the new We record, As Is.
>>It's a really great record of experimental drum 'n bass and hip hop,
>>but I haven't yet spotted Eyvind's contribution to it yet.
>
>I may have spotted him on track 11, "Tombs & Tombs Only" ... listen for his
>playing in the background, and especially during the quieter moments.
>
Yeah, I'm listening to it now and noticing this. Also, there's track 7,
"Violinstoid", which, when I'm listened to it this time, sounds like a very
time-stretched sample of one of Eyvind's distortion moments.

Regardless of Eyvind's participation, this is a highly interesting CD.

________________________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : [e-mail]  : www.peak.org/~improv/

"...there will come a day when you won't have to use
gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in
your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper
type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em
together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em
together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire."
                                            -Sun Ra
________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 23:11:50 -0500 (CDT)
From: Brian & Sharon Beuchaw <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: People paying for Zorn/Eye 100CD

On Sat, 30 Aug 1997, Steve Smith wrote:

> What I wonder is, what happened to all the people who pre-paid for the
> 100 CD Zorn/Eye box, now that Sound Factory is officially defunct (a
> side-effect of Hong Kong's absorption into China, and not rumor but
> fact)?
>
> Steve Smith
> [e-mail]

Hmmm, did they actually take orders for this?  When I emailed them (a long
time ago) asking how to order, they told me to wait a while since it was
postponed (apparently 'til forever now).....

cya
brian

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 00:47:55 -0400
From: Perfect Sound Forever <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #114

At 06:01 PM 8/30/97 -0600, you wrote:
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 18:32:35 -0400
>From: Sean Terwilliger <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Third Rail
>
>So!
>It appears the TR have cancelled their NY gig on 9/12. Any news of a
>re-schedual?

Yep, it's official- the show's been cancelled and Irving Plaza is offering
refunds.  Really sad since the Last Poets were opening for them.  This is
the second time TR has had a show cancelled in a month in New York- there
was one that was supposed to happen at Tramps a month ago that was
cancelled because they hadn't sold any advanced tickets.  Also sad since
the show's they've done in California are supposed to have been great.

Jason

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 22:13:23 -0700
From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #114

At 12:47 AM 8/31/97 -0400, Perfect Sound Forever wrote:

>the second time TR has had a show cancelled in a month in New York- there
>was one that was supposed to happen at Tramps a month ago that was
>cancelled because they hadn't sold any advanced tickets.

This is not why the show was cancelled.  The show had been cancelled before
the ads ran.

>Also sad since
>the show's they've done in California are supposed to have been great.

Well the San Francisco show was certainly great.  Bill didn't seem as
enthusiastic about the one in LA, which I missed.


Jeff Spirer
Axiom/Material
http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 06:16:39 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: Re: We again (was Re: new Eyvind Kang and Zorn request)

>>I may have spotted him on track 11, "Tombs & Tombs Only" ... listen for his
>>playing in the background, and especially during the quieter moments.

>Yeah, I'm listening to it now and noticing this. Also, there's track 7,
>"Violinstoid", which, when I'm listened to it this time, sounds like a very
>time-stretched sample of one of Eyvind's distortion moments.

Forgot to mention, he may be on track 13 as well, not sure though.

>Regardless of Eyvind's participation, this is a highly interesting CD.

Agreed.


- -Patrick


np: Charlemagne Palestine - "Four Manifestations ..."

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 11:28:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: The Parachute Box - wow!

Thanks for all that info, Steve. I'm pretty psyched to get my hands on this
puppy also. Also, I can now answer my own question as to whether this is a
limited edition or not. I was told by the illustrious Bruce Gallanter that
there are 5000 copies of the box being pressed initially, and that more will
be pressed later if necessary.

Jon

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 09:37:22 -0700
From: Schwitterz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Arto Lindsay Live

Hey Zornados,

While perusing the wasteland known as the LA Times Calendar section this
morning, I noticed Arto Lindsay is opening for David Byrne at the Mayan
Theatre this Wednesday.
What is the scoop on the merit or not of seeing Lindsay live?

Sz

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 13:38:52 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #104

On Fri, 29 Aug 1997 19:41:13 -0700  [e-mail] wrote:
>
> Sorry first of all.
> For two things:  First I had some problems with the beta Netscape 4.0
> and in the process lost a lot of my e-mail...  So the e-mail addresses
> of the people who were interested in the Parachute Box are for the most
> part gone.
>
> I already sent ordering info to the four people whose addresses I
> salvaged.
>
> Thing 2:  I am going to be getting 7 boxes at the most.  It will depend
> on the current realtions with Tzadik, how early my company pre-ordered
> the sets (not very; they did it this week), and how much demand there is
> for these on the days before street date - Sept. 16.
>
> If anyone told me before they were interested, and even after caveats
> from Patrice and myself, still want the set, please e-mail me again.  I
       ^^^^^^^

I never made any reservations about Zorn's Parachute years. Just thought
that qualifying the music of "beautiful" could create more confusion than
help in the mind of potential buyers (specially for a 7xCD set...).

> will respond with the address then as soon as I get back from Mexico
> Modnday night.  I only have a couple of slots left,  first come,first
> serve.  And sorry to be ethnocentric, but I'm going to limit it to U.S.
> for shipping ease.
>
> Mark Mauer
> [e-mail]
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 14:02:49 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: more on Frith-Zorn during the Parachute sessions

    I was digging through my list of interviews/articles and found the
following excerpt (because this is the beginning of the full discussion, no
need to worry about "out of context" issues).

    Hope you enjoy it,

    Patrice.

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Excerpt from a discussion between Fred Frith and John Zorn, published in the
June/July 1988 issue of the late US magazine REFLEX.

JZ: Combining composition and improvisation is one of the things we both have
    in common. Yet when we were rehearsing my piece, ARCHERY, back in '79, I
    remember having a fight with you about it -- conceptually you didn't think
    it was proper.

FF: That was the first time we met and I was coming out of a situation where I
    had been working in a collective [Henry Cow] for ten years in which we
    discussed everything. Any doubts or thoughts that we had about what we
    were doing were aired. I remember feeling like I was in church working on
    that piece with you. It was you with your orchestra. All these people were
    young, enthusiastic musicians, but they were obviously awed by you.

JZ: No, we're talking about peers -- Eugene Chadbourne, Tom Cora, Davey
    Williams, Polly Bradfield...

FF: It didn't feel that way to me for some reason. I remember Steve Beresford
    and I were talking about it then. We thought that when we both started to
    criticize certain aspects of what you were doing -- for whatever reason --
    it seemed like there was a kind of silence. Like... 'wow... someone was
    questioning.'

JZ: My attitude was that you were coming from Britain, which was the center of
    the Derek Bailey "let's improvise and don't talk about it" school. "If you
    talk about it, that ruins the purity." You guys were in church, man, not
    us! You were the ones preaching the gospel of improvisation as having to
    be totally improvised.

FF: That's not true. Henry Cow tried to combine improvisation and composition
    for years and was often criticized for it. As for ARCHERY, I remember
    clearly what I thought. I felt a lot of pieces -- more with Eugene's than
    yours, but a little bit in both -- sometimes consisted of lazy composition
    rather than interesting improvising. I felt like I was being given a vague
    instruction to do something, and then if I did something, which I thought
    was according to the instruction, but that Eugene didn't like, he would
    say, "no, not that, this." My reaction was, 'if you want me to do some-
    thing specific, you have to tell me as part of your composition. If you
    don't, but stop me for improvising something that doesn't fit in with your
    idea, then there's something wrong.' That's what I thought of "2000
    Statues." Whereas, with your stuff, it was more a question of trying to
    figure out what the hell you were on.

JZ: No, I think you had a philosophical question.

FF: Right, I had ideology coming out of my ears. I was really interested in
    'why does John want to do this?' 'Why is he stopping improvisers from
    doing what they do best? Imposing a structure on them which is really
    going to restrict them from doing what they can do.' I thought that was
    pretentious. Then a friend gave me a very interesting insight. He said,
    "What you have to understand is, think only in terms of the end-result.
    If the end-result of John's piece is the kind of music that couldn't
    have been achieved by any other means, then your objections don't matter
    a shit. The only important thing is that the end-result is obtainable by
    the means John devises, and that it is a good end-result that's only
    possible that way." I looked at it from that point of view, and thought,
    'that's dead right.' I started to examine the pieces more from the back
    forward instead of from the front onwards. I started to think in terms
    of what you were trying to achieve in the end-result and what was
    actually happening when you were playing.

JZ: Yeah, I should have asked you to play on the recording of ARCHERY, but I
    felt that you weren't into it.

FF: In a way, I wasn't. I was full of my purist approach, though I would
    have denied it then, working with Henry Cow.

JZ: When did all the political shit creep into your background?

FF: Right at the very beginning. We were all, in some way, politically
    involved because it was '68 and you couldn't not be.

JZ: I wasn't (he laughs).

FF: You're a apolitical dumb shit! (they both laugh). I mean at that time,
    in that context, I was involved in a certain number of actions which
    had nothing to do with music -- like demonstrations and meetings and so
    on. What Henry Cow did was to bring together different strands of our
    beliefs outside of the music and try to make the music reflect that in
    some way. That was a long process and really only started to gel when
    we got a record contract. Then we were suddenly up against the record
    business and had a concrete thing to hate. We started projecting a lot
    of our political beliefs into the whole structure of the music business.
    A lot of our politics were really music business politics. We started
    getting involved in music business activity, like setting up alternative
    circuits, being independent of managers and agents, buying our own
    vehicles and PA systems and stuff like that.

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 20:02:38 -0700
From: [e-mail]
Subject: low quality Zorn?

This being in reference to the recent posts that a) Zorn may be working
to capitalize on his own recent success, and b) his recent work is
suffering , perhaps as a result of the quantity of pieces being put
out.

I don't buy it really.   It seems to me that whenever new Zorn records
have come out in the past four years or so, I have thought them to be
more interesting, more listenable (not a term synonomous with quality OR
beauty), and more diverse and even fun than when I first came across his
music 10 years ago.   Part of that is surely that my own tastes keep
expanding in what I wil listen to I suppose, but why assume that the
recent success/ popularity of his work has caused him to be more
prolific to capitalize on it?  It seems to make more sense that with the
large number of recent releases, his label, live shows (but being in
L.A. his live shows only exist in theory and heresay), and the vast
diversity of the content, that THAT is what has caused more people to
take more notice of his work.

I have the feeling that in 20 years time, music fans will look at the
mid-90's as one of those famous "Periods of Intense Creativity" for John
Zorn.  When Miles Davis was tossing out Prestige Recordings every few
months (and many of those were hurried for financial reasons; so he
could finish his contract and move on to Columbia) those are still some
of the finest pieces of their era.

I'm simply glad that I'm into his music right now, when so much of it is
coming out.  It's exciting.  And not being able to digest it all fast
enough; well... That's a problem I'm willing to live with.
Mark Mauer

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 00:26:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Gainsbourg tribute

Ok, i guess i'll be the first to ask what's on Great Jewish Music: Serge
Gainsbourg.

Lang Thompson
http://members.aol.com/wlt4/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 23:32:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: [e-mail] (m. rizzi)
Subject: Re: Leng T'che date, Slim's in SF, etc.

A Long Time Ago Allen Gittelson, demi-God and Icon sez:
>
>The other somewhat offshoot experience is that the Boredoms once stayed
>in my apartment for about 4 days.  They are about the most quiet
>peaceful people I ever met in my life.  I thought they'd be very loud.
>Yoshimi had a cute little Guinea Pig.  Eye sleeps about 18 hours a day,
>so I hardly got to even say hello to him.  They were opening for Sonic
>Youth in Cleveland, and Sonic Youth was headed up to Canada and the

    Small World. That was the first time I ever
    saw the Boredoms live. Being a Hanatarash and
    Boredoms fan for years, I was psyched to
    discover they were playing 4 dates opening
    for Sonic Youth in the Northeast.

    Since I was flush with frequent flyer miles
    at the time, me and my partner flew from
    Oakland to Cleveland to see that show. It
    was outstanding, especially given that most
    of the audience had NO idea what they were
    about to experience (Sonic Youth had their
    big commercial radio hit about this time).

    Watching Yoshikawa bouncing off of Eye
    and playing effects taped to a pizza box
    was amazing. Within the first 30 seconds
    of the first song, the audience went from
    stunned silence into a frenetic bouncing
    reminiscent of the old punk rock pogoing
    days (before slam dancing).

    One of the best live shows I've ever
    experienced...and I'm not prone to such
    exclamations.

    mike


- --
[e-mail] -------------------------------------- www.browbeat.com
                   "Another nerd with a soulpatch"
- -------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 -------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 23:48:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: [e-mail] (m. rizzi)
Subject: Re: Pieces

A Million Miles Ago Jeff Spirer, demi-God and Icon sez:
>
>He has three releases under his own name.  The first, on Avant, is
>_Bucketheadland_, and is goofy and masturbatory.

    Speaking of which, I saw a used copy of this double
    CD at Amoeba Music in Berkeley for $24 yesterday.

    mike the record scout

[e-mail] -------------------------------------- www.browbeat.com
                   "Another nerd with a soulpatch"
- -------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 -------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 19:06:12 +1000
From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Bucketheadland

>He has three releases under his own name.  The first, on Avant, is
>_Bucketheadland_, and is goofy and masturbatory.

Speaking of how masturbatory this is, I was looking at cdnow and saw an up
and coming release called "Buckethead Land" - anyone know if there's any
difference?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 21:07:22 +1000
From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Baron & Bowie?

Was anyone aware that Joey Baron played on David Bowie's album "Outside"?
If this is common knowledge, can someone tell me what sort of playing was
involved, and whether he made any other albums with Bowie...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:39:30 +0200 (MESZ)
From: BJOERN <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Baron & Bowie?

i realized that some days before a masada show in april......i took that
CD to the gig to get it signed by baron and asked him about it......
as far as i remember he just did a few pieces on the album and never
played on any other bowie record....

BJOERN

On Tue, 2 Sep 1997, Julian wrote:

> Was anyone aware that Joey Baron played on David Bowie's album "Outside"?
> If this is common knowledge, can someone tell me what sort of playing was
> involved, and whether he made any other albums with Bowie...
>
>
>

------------------------------

End of zorn-list Digest V2 #115
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