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zorn-list Digest        Monday, August 25 1997        Volume 02 : Number 111



In this issue:

    Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #110
    Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #110 (Patton on Leng Tche)
    Re: Fwd: Chris Speed/Human Feel
    Re: beauty
    Re: Parachute years or Masada?
    Cuong Vu
    Re: b[e|in]au[rali]ty (was just Beauty)
    Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #110 (Patton on Leng Tche)
    Cosmic Invention
    New Studio  Was:Re: West Orange
    Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #110 (Patton on Leng Tche)
    Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #110 (Patton on Leng Tche)
    Re: New Studio  Was:Re: West Orange
    Zorn-List Frequently Asked Questions (was Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #110 (Patton on Leng Tche))
    Re: Cuong Vu
    Re: grand guignol and carny (fwd)
    Re: heretic/cobra scores (fwd)
    Schoenberg, you say (was Re: Cuong Vu)
    Re: b[e|in]au[rali]ty (was just Beauty)

See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the zorn-list
or zorn-list-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 13:49:50 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Geoff S Gersh)
Subject: Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #110

I asked Mike Patton about the Leng T'che disc a couple fo years ago,he
said he's not the one screamin' on the disc.
I think it sounds alot like him at times too......but, guess not.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 13:58:50 -0400
From: "Andy Marks" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #110 (Patton on Leng Tche)

> I asked Mike Patton about the Leng T'che disc a couple fo years ago,he
> said he's not the one screamin' on the disc.

Sorry, but I couldn't resist.
Maybe he's the one moaning and groaning!    :-)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 12:44:29 +0000
From: [e-mail] (Tony Reif)
Subject: Re: Fwd: Chris Speed/Human Feel

Re Sangetta Johnson's ([e-mail]) comments about Chris Speed's
record, Chris wrote me a while ago about the process of getting this music
together:

"Yeah No reveals an alternative definition of jazz today. This band was
conceived by just improvising together, and then by transcribing hours of
these improvisations I captured what the band naturally created on its own,
without a hierarchy or repertoire to follow. When I finally did bring in
compositions, we had an organic and unique sound happening as well as a
democratic space from which to approach the tunes. Then I felt I could
organize more specifically what I wanted, because the band itself was the
source of my compositions.

"Scribble Bliss is a joyful splurge of free jazz; a groove heavy Planing
begins conversationally and breaks down to a wiggle; the album ends with
variations on collective improvisations springboarded by roadsign composing
in Not an Option. The texture explorations of The Dream and Memory Store
take different paths from the more melodic Nap Clarity and the abstract,
sparse Finale; the Eastern inspired Merge collides groove and folk
improvisations in a crooked time zone of eleven.

"I wanted to make a jazz record whre everyone felt free to push the
boundaries beyond the typical roles, and still sound like a collective
voice; it's pretty clear that we all trust each other and feel comfortable
enough to really improvise, which basically is the point of all this
anyway."


Chris Speed


>>>Chris Speed - 'Yeah No'.  Speed (reeds); Cuong Vu (trumpet); Skuli
>>>Sverrison (elec. bass); Jim Black (drums).  If you've ever heard
>Chris'
>>>compositions with Human Feel I would call this along those same lines,
>>>excepting the obvious difference in ensemble as well as they fact that
>>>they don't play together with quite the same synergy as HF.
>>But I think
>>>in this case it's a good thing, everything sounds kind of fresh and
>>>impromtu (not they don't barrel into everything headfirst anyways),
>>wheras...

>>       To me, Chris's CD is focussed on group improvisation.  Human
>Feel
>>is a great improvising band as well but in their last 3 CDs the
>>composition/improvisation as a organic whole seemed to be their focal
>>point.  Whereas with "Yeah, No" it seems to me that Chris supplies well
>>thought out forms and motives that aid in the group's directions.  The
>>main difference between the two groups is that Human Feel is dealing
>>with the compositions which often controls the improvisation.  Chris's
>>band is completely free.



Tony Reif (Songlines Recordings)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 15:33:16 -0500 (CDT)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: beauty

Sounds like a good plan.

On Sat, 23 Aug 1997, joshua herrin wrote:

> I've got an idea... why don't we start a separate mailing list just for
> the subject of what beauty is. I've already wasted  at least 10 minutes
> reading people ramble on about the subject, and no one sees this as
> enough to let the issue die. Enough, already... please.
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 15:36:09 -0500 (CDT)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Parachute years or Masada?

It's surprising that the point of simply not buying Masada CDs has had to
have been made; I've always wondered why some folks go for the personal
attack on musicians rather that just not buying their music.

Though, for the record, I hope Masada turns out to be more than just an
idiomatic excercise.
On Sat, 23 Aug 1997, ALAN E. KAYSER wrote:

> > Masada is Zorn's idiomatic jazz project.  Think of any of Zorn's hard
> > bop
> > heroes.  I'll pick Sonny Clark, since I'm most familiar with him.  His
> >
> > tunes are all basically the same, in that they belong to the same
> > idiom.
> > The playing shows development from album to album, but not in leaps
> > and
> > bounds.  If you really love Clark's take on the idiom, you'll want 'em
> >
> > all, but most fans will be happy with two or three.
> >
> >           I don't see why so many people have a problem with this.
> > The idea
> > that an album should be a big statement didn't become a commonplace
> > until
> > late 60's rock, and it's arguably done more harm than good.  If you
> > don't
> > want seven, ten, twenty Masada albums, just stop buying them.  If the
> > market's being oversaturated with Zorn product, DIW will eventually
> > notice
> > and stop putting them out.  Completists (and I come close to being one
> >
> > myself) have no one to blame but themselves.
> >
> > Chris Hamilton
>
> Chris:
>
> Couldn't agree more.  Ellington played some of his music from the
> twenties right up until he died, and it didn't sound much different.  He
> was an idiom unto himself.  So, Zorn may well put out many Masadas.  The
> point really is if a consumer tires of a product, then just don't buy
> it.  If you like Masada then buy them all.  One can be somewhat of a
> completist, but still exert some self control.
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 16:39:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Juno-Temp1 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Cuong Vu

 Cuong Vu is a trumpet player to watch out for.
>>His solos are so totally melodic, they keep my interest every note.

In case anyone in the NY area is interested.  Cuong's band is playing at
the Knit in the Alterknit (altercloset) on Tues. Sept 2 at 9pm.
I've heard the band a few months ago and it's a nice combination of
post-Schoenberg influenced compositions with inspired free
improvisation.  Not to mention some heavy grooves from Jim Black.

- -JW

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 14:14:07 -0700
From: john shiurba <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: b[e|in]au[rali]ty (was just Beauty)

Schwitterz writes:

> You are the first human being I have ever interacted with who knows and
> likes BINAURALITY...

I know more than a few people, myself included who love this music--
have a look at Peter Stubley's incredible website:
http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/ehome.html
for information about more music along the lines of King Ubu Orch.
- --



[e-mail]

http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 17:46:44 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Nirav Soni)
Subject: Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #110 (Patton on Leng Tche)

Andy Marks wrote:

> > I asked Mike Patton about the Leng T'che disc a couple fo years
> ago,he
> > said he's not the one screamin' on the disc.
>
> Sorry, but I couldn't resist.
> Maybe he's the one moaning and groaning!    :-)

  Hi, I just subbed to this list. I just picked up the Torture
Garden/Leng T'che re-release a few weeks ago.
Whilst I was listeneing to Leng T'che, I noticed a definete Melvins type
thing going on here.
When I looked into the Leng T'che liner notes, lo and behold, I found a
thanks to the Melvins! Could someone fill me in here,
I never knew that Naked City was involved with the Melvins.

- --
ôWhen the one you loved abandoned you, leaving a note filled with
accusations you could not answer, you needed a piece of angry candy.
When death took  another, and you burned to say final words not
spoken, again the angry candy. When you peered into the abyss, angry
candy would have sustained you.
Here is the bittersweet: you are not alone.ö  -

     -Harlan Ellison, ôAngry Candyö

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 15:11:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Howes <[e-mail]>
Subject: Cosmic Invention

 Someone want to fill me in on a psychedelic group called "Cosmic Invention".
They suposedly have a record on "The Now Sound". Isn't that the label that
realeased a Ruins CD?
 All I know about the group is it contains the following members;
Okano Futoshi
Uzawa Kounosuke
Kurihara Michio
Batoh Masaki <-- name sound familiar..isn't he one of the original members
        of Ghost....I know its something to do with PSF.
Kotoh Jun
Fuji

  thanks
mike
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 18:10:45 -0400
From: Sean Terwilliger <[e-mail]>
Subject: New Studio  Was:Re: West Orange

I guess my questions are:

1) What's the new studio's name?
2) When will we hear something from it?
3) Did Laswell and Musso have a falling out? (or will Bob move to Jersey
as well? ) or:
4) Is Musso still running Greenpoint? (or did anyone buy it or is it
GONE?)

Thanks

Sean

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 15:16:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #110 (Patton on Leng Tche)

On Mon, 25 Aug 1997, Nirav Soni wrote:

> Whilst I was listeneing to Leng T'che, I noticed a definete Melvins type
> thing going on here.
> When I looked into the Leng T'che liner notes, lo and behold, I found a
> thanks to the Melvins! Could someone fill me in here,
> I never knew that Naked City was involved with the Melvins.

Mike, maybe we should add this
to the FAQ?

for the record: neither the
Melvins, nor Mike Patton were
involved with the recording of
"Leng T'che". the thanks
given in the liner notes is
simply a nod in their
direction for inspiration.

hasta.

Yes.  Beautiful, wonderful nature.  Hear it sing to us: *snap*  Yes.  natURE.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 15:21:19 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #110 (Patton on Leng Tche)

On Mon, 25 Aug 1997 15:16:30 -0700 (PDT)  SUGAR in their vitamins? wrote:
>
> On Mon, 25 Aug 1997, Nirav Soni wrote:
>
> > Whilst I was listeneing to Leng T'che, I noticed a definete Melvins type
> > thing going on here.
> > When I looked into the Leng T'che liner notes, lo and behold, I found a
> > thanks to the Melvins! Could someone fill me in here,
> > I never knew that Naked City was involved with the Melvins.
>
> Mike, maybe we should add this
> to the FAQ?
>
> for the record: neither the
> Melvins, nor Mike Patton were
> involved with the recording of
> "Leng T'che". the thanks
> given in the liner notes is
> simply a nod in their
> direction for inspiration.

It is in the FAQ. The only trouble is that it is not #1 :-).

    Patrice.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 15:55:16 -0700
From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: New Studio  Was:Re: West Orange

At 06:10 PM 8/25/97 -0400, Sean Terwilliger wrote:
>I guess my questions are:
>
>1) What's the new studio's name?

Orange Studios

>2) When will we hear something from it?

_Sacred System II_ is due imminently and is the first thing from it,
although parts may have been recorded at Greenpoint.

I think the first recordings at the studio were Bootsy, and have nothing to
do with Bill except that it is his studio.

>3) Did Laswell and Musso have a falling out? (or will Bob move to Jersey
>as well? ) or:

No.  Only the studio moved.  Bob will still be there.

>4) Is Musso still running Greenpoint? (or did anyone buy it or is it
>GONE?)

No.  He never was, it was Bill's studio (and Jonas Hellborg's before Bill).
 It is gone permanently.


Jeff Spirer
Axiom/Material
http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 20:22:46 -0400
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Zorn-List Frequently Asked Questions (was Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #110 (Patton on Leng Tche))

Patrice L. Roussel wrote:

> It is in the FAQ. The only trouble is that it is not #1 :-).

Actually, someone might want to jump in here and let all the new
folks... I've noticed several lately, a good sign... know just where the
FAQ is available.  I, for one, can't remember...

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
Bobby Previte Homepage: http://members.aol.com/Previte
Coming soon... the Screwgun/Tim Berne website...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:46:29 -0500
From: "Glenn Astarita" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Cuong Vu

- ----------
> From: Juno-Temp1
> To:
> Subject: Cuong Vu
> Date: Monday, August 25, 1997 3:39 PM
>
>  Cuong Vu is a trumpet player to watch out for.
> >>His solos are so totally melodic, they keep my interest every note.
>
> In case anyone in the NY area is interested.  Cuong's band is playing at
> the Knit in the Alterknit (altercloset) on Tues. Sept 2 at 9pm.
> I've heard the band a few months ago and it's a nice combination of
> post-Schoenberg influenced compositions with inspired free
> improvisation.  Not to mention some heavy grooves from Jim Black.
>
> -JW
>

He also does some nice work on Andy Laster's "Interpretations of Lessness"
and the latest Chris Speed cd "Yeah/No"..(both on Songlines).. I hate to
say it but his phrasing reminds me of Dave Douglas....which is a compliment
but i generally don't like making comparisons...

glenn

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 15:07:00 +1100
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: grand guignol and carny (fwd)

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 15:34:02 +1100
From: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: grand guignol and carny

In regards to the nature of the grand guignol theatre tradition, I'm sure
it has more to do wiith just grotesque transgressive subject matter that
gave a low-art thrill to the masses of 19th century Paris, and definitely
not actual dissections! The term now refers to high melodrama, anything
with extreme and passionate violence and taboo sexuality.
       I have both a tape and a score of Zorn's Carny. It is a mgnificent
virtuoso piece in the almost archetypal Zorn manner, a cut and paste of
every possible style all interpreted frenetically into pianistic idioms.
Direct qoutes from major piano composers appear, often backward or upside
down. Stephen Drury sent me a tape and a score here to australia after I
found his article on the piece in Perspectives On New Music, an academic
journal, Summer 1995 or 1994 i think. His performance is exemplary as you
would expect from the dedicatee. He mentioned that he would be recording
this piece for Tzadik in 1997 to be released with a cut of Zorn's piano
concerto! A Zorn orchestral piece! The mouth waters. I don't remeber the
address of stephen but it can be found in the journal I mentioned above.
Probably available at a university library or the like.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 15:07:44 +1100
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: heretic/cobra scores (fwd)

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 14:40:05 +1100
From: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: heretic/cobra scores

Heretic has always seemed to me to be one of the meatiest and most
fascinating NC rcords, mainly because of the sheer beauty of much of the
quiter more gamelan influenced and atmospheric pieces. I think true enough
its up there with the more esoteric and less rhtymically driven zorn
projects but I find its pieces to be far more structured and dramatic than
some are giving them  credit. The trio pieces with Baron, Frith and
frisell are almost the last word on trying to do a truly "art" music
interpretation of classic rock instrumentation. The trhree title tracks
are really quite exciting from a musicaly dramatic perspective as well. I
find it has the widest range of actual "sounds" and timbre than any other
Zorn release that I'm familiar with.
 On an entirely different note, can anyone help me regarding finding the
performance "score" for Cobra? Or indeed if any scores of Zorn's works
have been issued (apart from the Carny one)?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 01:09:26 -0400
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Schoenberg, you say (was Re: Cuong Vu)

> In case anyone in the NY area is interested.  Cuong's band is playing
at
> the Knit in the Alterknit (altercloset) on Tues. Sept 2 at 9pm.
> I've heard the band a few months ago and it's a nice combination of
> post-Schoenberg influenced compositions with inspired free
> improvisation.  Not to mention some heavy grooves from Jim Black.

Funny you should mention Schoenberg.  I heard a trio consisting of Chris
Speed, Oscar Noriega and Matt Moran ealier tonight at alt.coffee.
(Speed obviously needs no introduction on this list, Matt Moran is the
vibraphone player I raved about a few weeks ago, and Oscar is a fine
alto sax/bass clarinet player from the same Brooklyn area artists' house
that Speed, Jim Black and Dave Douglas used to live in and I think Moran
and Cuong Vu still do.)  And the trio opened with Moran's transcription
of three pieces by Anton Webern.

Interesting, this resurgence of the Second Viennese School in today's
"jazz," given the general backlash against it in the classical world.
It's a blending far more convincing than most of the "Third Stream" crap
progressives tried to pass off as the union of classical and jazz music
back in the '50s and '60s (not, lest I get flamed, that there were no
good pieces to come out of Third Stream).

Moran's originals have also come a long way since his "Larabok 1"
disc... there's still the melodic interest, but with a welcome
additional complexity.  It was some pretty exceptional chamber jazz,
Speed stuck to clarinet, Noriega to bass clarinet, the guy at the coffee
counter talked too damn loud, some clod near the door had to be sure we
all heard his entire romantic history, and Cuong Vu grooved hard on the
serial sound along with the rest of us from a nearby sofa.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 22:33:05 -0700
From: Schwitterz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: b[e|in]au[rali]ty (was just Beauty)

> I know more than a few people, myself included who love this music--
> have a look at Peter Stubley's incredible website:

Thanks a lot!

Sz

------------------------------

End of zorn-list Digest V2 #111
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