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zorn-list Digest        Monday, August 25 1997        Volume 02 : Number 110



In this issue:

    Re: Back on Bacharach
    Re: Beauty AND Melvins
    Re: Dave Douglas/Chris Speed/Skuli
    Re: back on bacharach
    Re: beauty
    Re: Parachute years or Masada?
    Filmworks IV/ Elegant Spanking
    Melvins? Patton?
    Dance for Le Corbusier
    Re: Melvins? Patton?
    Fwd: Chris Speed/Human Feel
    Knitting Factory Tickets?
    Re: Knitting Factory Tickets?
    Yamataka
    Re: Kang (was Re: Back on Bacharach)
    Re: Kang (was Re: Back on Bacharach)
    Re: Kang (was Re: Back on Bacharach)
    Re: Kang (was Re: Back on Bacharach)
    Re: West Orange
    New Zorn Page
    Re: Melvins? Patton?

See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the zorn-list
or zorn-list-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 01:31:43 +1000 (EST)
From: rion noir <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Back on Bacharach

On Fri, 22 Aug 1997, max wrote:

> I've been listening to the tribute cd quite a bit lately and was
> wondering if someone could give me some info. on a few of the players I
> hadn't heard before. I was most impressed with the arrangements by Erik
> Friedlander, Marie McAuliffe, and Eyvind Kang... Does anyone know what
> else these fine musicians have done? Yuka Honda and Guy Klucevsek are
> also great and I would like to know more about. Any help would be much
> appreciated...

I know that Erik Friedlander also appears on the most recent Mike Patton
album "Pranzo Oltranzista" (Tzadik) and if you checked his (Erik's)
homepage you will have noted that he featured on Hole Unplugged. What this
page does not tell you about this performance is that Erik is sitting next
to none other than Zeena Parkins whom you will have noticed is also on the
Bacharach CD.

Eyvind Kang (apparently one sick puppy) is also rumoured to be featuring
on Trey Spruance's new Secret Chiefs 3 album (Amarillo). Trey has worked
with Eyvind previously on the Tzadik release "7 NADEs" under the pseudonym
of Mr. Ko (though no-one is sure why). Trey is on the Mike Patton track on
the Bacharach CD which incidentally re-unites most of the players from
John Zorn's "elegy" (David Slusser being one mean theremin player).

What an incestous lot.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Aug 97 02:52:38 +1000
From: Alister Shew <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Beauty AND Melvins

If I may, somewhat clumsily, weave two recent threads together...

Just saw the Melvins play tonight (in Melbourne, Australia, their first
ever tour here!), and the recent debate about the nature of beauty (at
least in the musical sense, let's say) came to mind. Melvins are not a
band you'd think of as being very concerned with beautiful music, but as
they worked through the intricacies of some of the earlier material, it
felt beautiful to me.

It seems to me that the word 'beauty' is, like 'love', a word doomed to
inadequacy by its required application to a wide range of understandings.
Many use it to mean some sort of anodyne experience, an emotional
massage. Others think it's more about the beauty of true emotional
expression, something honest and universal. But sometimes it's more about
structures, the pleasure given by a sequence of things in space and time,
and this is what we're talking about when we talk about the beauty of
free jazz. I don't know the Parachute works that sparked this business
off, but I'll throw in Zorn's 'Book of Heads' as a comparison I'm familar
with. A VERY beautiful record as far as I'm concerned, but I also find it
really funny. Marc Ribot describes the process of learning the techniques
of free improv as "a healthy Zen slap in the face", and it's my
understanding (please correct me if I misunderstand) that humour is a key
element of Zen, despite the popular notion that Buddhists are Very
Serious Indeed (blame it on Richard Gere). It's the
almost-but-not-quite-chaos quality of 'Book of Heads' that appeals to me;
the finer the line between the two, the more difficult the beauty is. I
suspect it's this sort of thing that John Shiurba was getting at in his
original message when he threw the B-word into the ring. But no two
people's "beauty"s (sic)  are the same.

I seem to have strayed away from the Melvins. Let's just say that as a
band blending equal passions for volume and experimentation, they're
always worth a listen, at least for the folks with the taste to be here
at all.

Al

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 15:09:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Dave Douglas/Chris Speed/Skuli

In a message dated 97-08-23 13:08:08 EDT, [e-mail] (Patrice
L. Roussel) writes:

> > I also recommend this!  Very textural sounding stuff, none of those fast
>  > Skuli licks like you might expect.  Skuli is one of the most technically
>  > gifted bassists Ive ever heard, and this shows a different side to him.
>
>  Any idea when this record got released? Also, anybody else playing on?
>
>      Thanks,
>
>      Patrice.

No other musicians on it, every sound is created with the electric bass.
 Dont know the exact release date, but it was sometime this year.  Its
extreme records XCD 039.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 16:50:56 -0600
From: joshua herrin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: back on bacharach

Max wrote: "Does anyone know what these fine musicians have done? Yuka
Honda..."

Yuka Honda is one half of Cibo Matto, whose albums "Viva La Woman!" and
the remix album "Super Relax!" (Warner Bros.) are on my heavy rotation.
She has also done stuff with Yoko Ono, on her album "Rising". Yuka is
also in the band Butter 08, whose self titled album is on Grand Royal
(the Beastie Boys' label). She pops up everywhere these days, but these
should give you a good start.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 17:06:09 -0600
From: joshua herrin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: beauty

I've got an idea... why don't we start a separate mailing list just for
the subject of what beauty is. I've already wasted  at least 10 minutes
reading people ramble on about the subject, and no one sees this as
enough to let the issue die. Enough, already... please.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 21:53:32 -0400
From: "ALAN E. KAYSER" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Parachute years or Masada?

> Masada is Zorn's idiomatic jazz project.  Think of any of Zorn's hard
> bop
> heroes.  I'll pick Sonny Clark, since I'm most familiar with him.  His
>
> tunes are all basically the same, in that they belong to the same
> idiom.
> The playing shows development from album to album, but not in leaps
> and
> bounds.  If you really love Clark's take on the idiom, you'll want 'em
>
> all, but most fans will be happy with two or three.
>
>           I don't see why so many people have a problem with this.
> The idea
> that an album should be a big statement didn't become a commonplace
> until
> late 60's rock, and it's arguably done more harm than good.  If you
> don't
> want seven, ten, twenty Masada albums, just stop buying them.  If the
> market's being oversaturated with Zorn product, DIW will eventually
> notice
> and stop putting them out.  Completists (and I come close to being one
>
> myself) have no one to blame but themselves.
>
> Chris Hamilton

Chris:

Couldn't agree more.  Ellington played some of his music from the
twenties right up until he died, and it didn't sound much different.  He
was an idiom unto himself.  So, Zorn may well put out many Masadas.  The
point really is if a consumer tires of a product, then just don't buy
it.  If you like Masada then buy them all.  One can be somewhat of a
completist, but still exert some self control.

Alan

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 21:12:51 +0000
From: "Marc A.Foster" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Filmworks IV/ Elegant Spanking

Does anyone recognize the reference to some popular song about 8 minutes
into the Elegant Spanking track? I know the melody, but can't remember
the song. Intro to Green Eyed Lady perhaps? It's been bothering me ever
since the album came out. I'm about to break down and start listening to
classic rock on the radio in hopes of hearing and identifying it.

Marc Foster

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 00:10:54 +1000 (EST)
From: rion noir <[e-mail]>
Subject: Melvins? Patton?

On Sat, 23 Aug 1997 11:31:58 +1000, Julian wrote:


> While we're on the topic, why does the band come up in this list so
> much?
> What is their link to John Zorn? The only thing I know about is their
> mention in the Leng Tch'e booklet. Is there anything else?


When I purchased my copy of "Leng Tch'e" I was told by the sales guy that
this piece was performed by John Zorn, the Melvins & Mike Patton as
Naked City. When I questioned him, he was almost violently sure that this
was fact. Upon repeated listenings, I found that there were some places
where it sounds like it could quite definitely be Mike Patton. In others,
it sounded like Yamatsuka Eye. I'm not sure if this is an often asked
question, but some friends and I were wondering if it is either Patton or
Eye? Or perhaps both??

Also, one of the aforementioned friends is quite certain that it cannot
possibly be anyone other than Joey Baron who plays drums on "Leng Tch'e"
thus making the whole Melvins & Patton thing rather a tricky puzzle.

Does anyone have any ideas?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 10:32:02 -0400
From: "Ockham's stubble" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Dance for Le Corbusier

look, it's a quip,
if you wish to reconstruct it
as condemning some activity (it's wrong!)
as a disparaging comment
(can you have missed that shimmering `about'?)
well then fine, you
can't leave yourself at home and come downtown -
but doesn't it look more like an index of futility
and for god's sake who
in their right mind can possibly
regard futility
as just discouraging?
(feeling pain13's betrayal of latecomeing to frustrations
attending a large gathering for discusson
against expectations of discussion
limited to what's interesting and not a waste of time, etc.)
- -b(what's this world coming to?)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 16:25:21 -0500
From: PETSITTER <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Melvins? Patton?

rion noir wrote:
>
> On Sat, 23 Aug 1997 11:31:58 +1000, Julian wrote:
>
> > While we're on the topic, why does the band come up in this list so
> > much?
> > What is their link to John Zorn? The only thing I know about is their
> > mention in the Leng Tch'e booklet. Is there anything else?
>
> When I purchased my copy of "Leng Tch'e" I was told by the sales guy that
> this piece was performed by John Zorn, the Melvins & Mike Patton as
> Naked City. When I questioned him, he was almost violently sure that this
> was fact. Upon repeated listenings, I found that there were some places
> where it sounds like it could quite definitely be Mike Patton. In others,
> it sounded like Yamatsuka Eye. I'm not sure if this is an often asked
> question, but some friends and I were wondering if it is either Patton or
> Eye? Or perhaps both??
>
> Also, one of the aforementioned friends is quite certain that it cannot
> possibly be anyone other than Joey Baron who plays drums on "Leng Tch'e"
> thus making the whole Melvins & Patton thing rather a tricky puzzle.
>
> Does anyone have any ideas?
On the Zorn discography it says something like; patton or the melvins do
not play in this CD, although they did have an influence on the piece.
I tend to question this, but would disagree that it is not Naked City
but the Melvins and Mike Patton.  I have never heard the Melvins, but
have been listening to Mike Patton for quite some time now.  I follow
almost all the projects he is involved in.  When I listen to Leng Tch'e
some of the vocals do sound like patton, but you can also hear Eye.
    In short, I can only tell you that I recognize Patton but have no
evidence. I'd love for some one to clear this up!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 14:25:52 PDT
From: "sangeeta johnson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: Chris Speed/Human Feel

>
>>I've got both of these and they are indeed great.  Some specifics on
>them
>>if you're interested:
>>
>>Chris Speed - 'Yeah No'.  Speed (reeds); Cuong Vu (trumpet); Skuli
>>Sverrison (elec. bass); Jim Black (drums).  If you've ever heard
Chris'
>>compositions with Human Feel I would call this along those same lines,
>>excepting the obvious difference in ensemble as well as they fact that
>>they don't play together with quite the same synergy as HF.
>But I think
>>in this case it's a good thing, everything sounds kind of fresh and
>>impromtu (not they don't barrel into everything headfirst anyways),
>wheras...
>       To me, Chris's CD is focussed on group improvisation.  Human
Feel
>is a great improvising band as well but in their last 3 CDs the
>composition/improvisation as a organic whole seemed to be their focal
>point.  Whereas with "Yeah, No" it seems to me that Chris supplies well
>thought out forms and motives that aid in the group's directions.  The
>main difference between the two groups is that Human Feel is dealing
>with the compositions which often controls the improvisation.  Chris's
>band is completely free.
>
>> Cuong Vu is a trumpet player to watch out for.
>>His solos are so totally melodic, they keep my interest every note.
>
>Have you heard the Saft/Vu CD on AVANT?  Rumor has it that Zorn
listened
>to their tape over the phone for about 15 minutes, then called to buy
>the rights to it that evening.
>
>-Sangeeta J.
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 15:44:39 -0600
From: Brian Carlson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Knitting Factory Tickets?

Does anyone know if there is anywhere but the door to get tickets for
Knitting Factory shows, like by phone?  Do they even sell advanced tickets?
Thanks.

Brian

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 18:18:22 -0400
From: "ALAN E. KAYSER" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Knitting Factory Tickets?

Brian Carlson wrote:

> Does anyone know if there is anywhere but the door to get tickets for
> Knitting Factory shows, like by phone?  Do they even sell advanced
> tickets?
> Thanks.
>
> Brian

Contact their web site. www.knitingfactory.com.  You can get tickets
ahead of time, but as far as I know it only gets you in the door, there
is no reserve seating.  In fact, there's hardly any seating at all.
Even with that, it can't be beat.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 00:09:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Yamataka

Does anyone know any info on Yamataka Eye?
Anything would be very helpful.

thanks...
      CAM..

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 05:28:47 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: Re: Kang (was Re: Back on Bacharach)

>Eyvind Kang (apparently one sick puppy) is also rumoured to be featuring
>on Trey Spruance's new Secret Chiefs 3 album (Amarillo).

Well, if he's on there, he's not listed in the liners.  Dunn, Heifetz
& Spruance are the only players listed, along with Bar McKinnon, and
Kris Hendrickson on a couple of tracks.


- -Patrick

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 03:59:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Kang (was Re: Back on Bacharach)

speaking of Eyvind Kang, did i miss
it or has someone else already mentioned
that he has worked with the
Sun City Girls off and on?
also, was his solo 7" release from
a few years back the item that
lead to recording with Tzadik?

hasta.

Yes.  Beautiful, wonderful nature.  Hear it sing to us: *snap*  Yes.  natURE.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 13:06:49 +0200 (MESZ)
From: BJOERN <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Kang (was Re: Back on Bacharach)

> >Eyvind Kang (apparently one sick puppy) is also rumoured to be featuring
> >on Trey Spruance's new Secret Chiefs 3 album (Amarillo).
>
> Well, if he's on there, he's not listed in the liners.  Dunn, Heifetz
> & Spruance are the only players listed, along with Bar McKinnon, and
> Kris Hendrickson on a couple of tracks.

i think the rumour is that he is on the NEW secret chiefs 3 CD which will
hopefully be released in fall

BJOERN

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 09:06:54 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: Re: Kang (was Re: Back on Bacharach)

>> >Eyvind Kang (apparently one sick puppy) is also rumoured to be featuring
>> >on Trey Spruance's new Secret Chiefs 3 album (Amarillo).
>>
>> Well, if he's on there, he's not listed in the liners.  Dunn, Heifetz
>> & Spruance are the only players listed, along with Bar McKinnon, and
>> Kris Hendrickson on a couple of tracks.
>
>i think the rumour is that he is on the NEW secret chiefs 3 CD which will
>hopefully be released in fall

My mistake ...


- -Patrick

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 07:42:48 PDT
From: "David Brunelle" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: West Orange

>(This was me):>Independent studios are rarely in nice sections of town.
>>
>This was not intended to be a slam on West Orange, at least not by me.
I
>lived, quite happily, in New Jersey at one time, despite fears that it
>would permanently tar my reputation.  However, studios are often in
>warehouse or other rundown commercial districts, which many people
would
>not call the "nice" part of a town.  Also, the parts of town that are
not
>"nice" are usually far more interesting than the ones that are "nice."

This last part is very true. New Jersey often gets a bad rap based on
the industrial sections by New York. I apologize for my remarks, which
were based on limited travels through West Orange. Almost every toen has
a "bad section". I just happen to always see theirs.

Sorry for straying from more appropriate "list" talk.

Dave Brunelle

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 09:57:28 -0700
From: SiameseZero <[e-mail]>
Subject: New Zorn Page

There is a new Zorn page at http://www.wen.net/kingm/zorn.html
send any comments to [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 09:19:29 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Melvins? Patton?

On Mon, 25 Aug 1997 00:10:54 +1000 (EST)  rion noir wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sat, 23 Aug 1997 11:31:58 +1000, Julian wrote:
>
>
> > While we're on the topic, why does the band come up in this list so
> > much?
> > What is their link to John Zorn? The only thing I know about is their
> > mention in the Leng Tch'e booklet. Is there anything else?
>
>
> When I purchased my copy of "Leng Tch'e" I was told by the sales guy that
> this piece was performed by John Zorn, the Melvins & Mike Patton as
> Naked City. When I questioned him, he was almost violently sure that this
> was fact. Upon repeated listenings, I found that there were some places
> where it sounds like it could quite definitely be Mike Patton. In others,
> it sounded like Yamatsuka Eye. I'm not sure if this is an often asked
> question, but some friends and I were wondering if it is either Patton or
> Eye? Or perhaps both??
>
> Also, one of the aforementioned friends is quite certain that it cannot
> possibly be anyone other than Joey Baron who plays drums on "Leng Tch'e"
> thus making the whole Melvins & Patton thing rather a tricky puzzle.

I asked to both Zorn and Horvitz about that and they both denied the
involvement of anybody but the regular(TM) Naked City lineup.

    Patrice.

------------------------------

End of zorn-list Digest V2 #110
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