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1997-08-19
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From: zorn-list-owner@xmission.com (zorn-list Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@xmission.com
Subject: zorn-list Digest V2 #102
Reply-To: zorn-list@xmission.com
Sender: zorn-list-owner@xmission.com
Errors-To: zorn-list-owner@xmission.com
Precedence:
zorn-list Digest Tuesday, August 19 1997 Volume 02 : Number 102
In this issue:
Re: Parachute years or Masada?
Re: Masada 7
Re: Parachute years or Masada?
Re: Parachute years or Masada?
Leng T'che date, Slim's in SF, etc.
Re: Parachute years or Masada?
Re: Ground Zero
Re: Scott Bradley/Nino Rota
Phat Dub #2
Re: Phat Dub #2
Re: Phat Dub #2
Re: Ground Zero
See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the zorn-list
or zorn-list-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 14:23:01 -0500
From: Richard C Williams <punkjazz@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Parachute years or Masada?
Scott Russell wrote:
>
> I, for one, would be interested to read anything Fred Frith has written
> about music, especially Zorn. Regarding the parachute box, this thread
> is in danger of getting hysterical. Many of us who would like this set
> haven't actually heard much, or any of this period Zorn. Perhaps it
> would be useful if someone in the know could advise us of exact nature
> of the material. For example, you mention British improv as an influence
> on these discs. Does that mean extended bouts of skronking and scraping
> a la Derek Bailey and AMM? If so is it any more difficult than 'Yankees'
> for instance (which is curious but interesting)? On the other hand is
> the music anything like Cobra (which I find very entertaining indeed)?
> Or is it further away from either?
I own School (Parachute 4/6), Archery (Parachute 17/18) and 200
Statues/The English Channel (dont have this one nearby, not sure if it
was a parachute release) and I attended many of the gigs of that period.
If extended bouts of skronking and scraping, are not your cup of tea I
would suggest you save your money. The early game pieces were about
stucturing free improv, and feature none of the genre-hopping stuff of
the recent years. The parachute releases(excluding Archery), suffered
from poor production values, and more importantly, they never really
captured what the early game pieces were all about. It was the
interaction of the players, both musical, and visual that defined these
pieces, and yes, Yankees would be a reasonable comparison. IMHO, Zorn's
best piece from this period was Track and Field, which I dont believe
was ever released?. It's probably the closest thing to Cobra from those
days.
I will be picking up the box(if I can find it), if only for Archery,
which was recorded by Martin Bisi & Michael Lytle at OAO, and does a
fairly good job of documenting this period. Hopefully they will find
some way of including the great artwork, and copies of the score that
were included in the box. And maybe if were lucky they'll include one of
the Track and Field gigs.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 11:04:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com>
Subject: Re: Masada 7
On Mon, 18 Aug 1997, Dan Kuehn wrote:
> just to fan the flames, on bar kokhba, as well as the number
> eight, there's also the hebrew symbol for eight, "chet". this
> isn't masada 8?
no, the Bar Kokhba is not part
of the Masada (DIW) series.
as mentioned before, the 8 refers
to the number in the sequence
of releases in the Tzadik
Radical Jewish Culture series.
hasta. --dk
Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 13:07:44 -0700
From: john shiurba <shiurba@sfo.com>
Subject: Re: Parachute years or Masada?
> Regarding the parachute box, this thread
> is in danger of getting hysterical. Many of us who would like this set
> haven't actually heard much, or any of this period Zorn. Perhaps it
> would be useful if someone in the know could advise us of exact nature
> of the material. For example, you mention British improv as an influence
> on these discs. Does that mean extended bouts of skronking and scraping
> a la Derek Bailey and AMM? If so is it any more difficult than 'Yankees'
> for instance (which is curious but interesting)? On the other hand is
> the music anything like Cobra (which I find very entertaining indeed)?
> Or is it further away from either?
I've heard this material, and consider it to be among Zorn's most
important, and most beautiful music. However I detect a wariness in your
tone when speaking of the British free improv stuff, and 'Yankees'-- in
which case I would advise you to steer clear of this stuff. If your tastes in
Zorn's music include Masada/Naked City/Painkiller
but NOT Yankees/ Art of Memory/ Classic Guide to Strategy
then this will probably be 7 CDs of stuff you will not enjoy.
The Parachute music is extremely fragmented, Zorn was obsessed with the
most miniscule of details during this period. Each sound is exploited for its
own momentary value, and then the focus moves on... and in that way the
music is rather similar to Naked City. But rest assured the music sounds
nothing like Naked City, or any other contemporary Zorn stuff.
- --
shiurba@sfo.com
http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 13:35:19 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Parachute years or Masada?
On Tue, 19 Aug 1997 13:07:44 -0700 john shiurba wrote:
>
> > Regarding the parachute box, this thread
> > is in danger of getting hysterical. Many of us who would like this set
> > haven't actually heard much, or any of this period Zorn. Perhaps it
> > would be useful if someone in the know could advise us of exact nature
> > of the material. For example, you mention British improv as an influence
> > on these discs. Does that mean extended bouts of skronking and scraping
> > a la Derek Bailey and AMM? If so is it any more difficult than 'Yankees'
> > for instance (which is curious but interesting)? On the other hand is
> > the music anything like Cobra (which I find very entertaining indeed)?
> > Or is it further away from either?
>
> I've heard this material, and consider it to be among Zorn's most
> important, and most beautiful music. However I detect a wariness in your
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Beautiful? Hum... Intellectually challenging? yes. Intriguing? yes. Exciting
and demanding? yes. But beautiful, really? :-).
> tone when speaking of the British free improv stuff, and 'Yankees'-- in
> which case I would advise you to steer clear of this stuff. If your tastes in
> Zorn's music include Masada/Naked City/Painkiller
> but NOT Yankees/ Art of Memory/ Classic Guide to Strategy
> then this will probably be 7 CDs of stuff you will not enjoy.
I agree. These two sets of records is like a frontier between two different
countries and without a nomansland.
> The Parachute music is extremely fragmented, Zorn was obsessed with the
> most miniscule of details during this period. Each sound is exploited for its
> own momentary value, and then the focus moves on... and in that way the
> music is rather similar to Naked City. But rest assured the music sounds
> nothing like Naked City, or any other contemporary Zorn stuff.
Patrice.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 14:18:09 -0700
From: "Allen Gittelson" <Allen.Gittelson@eng.efi.com>
Subject: Leng T'che date, Slim's in SF, etc.
>Greetings all.
>
>The Toy's Factory CD seems to say 92 11 1 on the back, and I presume
>this is the date. So, I guess November 11, 1992 was the date. I don't
>have the others with me at the moment, but I'll guess that this makes
>this the last one from 1992. Also, I believe in the notes from the
>Month of Zorn, the releases are listed in order. I'll check if you
>specifically ask me to see what order they are in in the booklet.
>
>Secondly, I heard Zorn/Mori/Patton at Slim's in SF last week. Noisy.
>Previous description was fairly accurate. I don't think it was really
>that hot, but I've been in a different climate for the past 10 years or
>so, so it doesn't really get very hot in the Bay area anyway. People
>here seem to think it's hot when it gets to be 80 degrees Fahrenheit.
>Temperature certainly is relative. The performance was very good. I
>enjoyed the raping introductions of the band members. The solo piece by
>Mori was great. Hypnotic drums and magical chimes.
>
>This show was quite a contrast to the other times I've seen Zorn. 1st
>was in Columbus, Ohio on OSU campus for Naked City (without Eye). Show
>was phenomenal. A full run of the range of the band in a non bar venue,
>so I loved it. No nasty smoke. Plus the band was in great form. I was
>also very entertained by the little bits that the musicians were doing
>to amuse themselves with their instruments between pieces. Just little
>noodling around for lack of a better term and because that's what they
>were doing. One of the single most amazing musical experiences of my
>life.
>
>2nd was Naked City (with Eye) this time in NY at the KF during the month
>of Zorn. So, according to the liner notes in the previously mentioned
>booklet (and I was at the earlier of the 2 Saturday performances), I saw
>the 2nd to last ever Naked City performance. It was not as great as the
>previous. The band played very well, but I don't feel that it was as
>good as the Columbus show. I will say that it was hard to pay attention
>to the music sometimes as the place was packed. I didn't see the
>crowbar that they must have used to get the last 100 folks in the door,
>but it was extremely full. A friend of mine who was with me was
>physically ill from the bad air and crowdedness (if that's a word).
>
>3rd time was at Oberlin College about 3 years ago (I think). Zorn was
>the rule conductor of a performance of Cobra. Good venue. Low on
>smoke, so much easier to enjoy the music. Fascinating to watch. I've
>been trying to figure out some of the rules of the game by listening
>(which is hard enough), but watching helps and listening was a joy. I
>barely remember any of the players by now, but I think a few were:
>Anthony Coleman, Mark Ribot, Christian Marclay. I could be wrong on the
>lineup. There were 13 players as I recall.
>
>Let's see... 2 other somewhat related Zorn tales as l write to this
>group, which I read, but have not really posted to previously:
>When Anthony Coleman & Roy Nathanson + Amy Denio + Negativland toured
>together a few years back. I was supposed to brind Negativland (or
>Coleman or Nathanson) back to WRUW-FM 91.1 in Cleveland to interview
>them and/or have Negativland do a live improv show. I ended up driving
>Mr. Coleman and Mr. Nathanson back to the station for an interview
>(conducted by another person who was more well versed in their idiom [as
>I was extremely prepared for the Negativland bit as I'm a big fan]).
>I'll leave the entirety of the performance that I received to your
>collective imagination, but let it suffice to say that these are too
>kooky guys. A bit off. Definitely from New York. One of their dad's
>was from Cleveland and was giving us a jazz history of Cleveland as we
>drove through it, even pointing out places where jazz clubs used to be.
>I think Coleman was the one from Cleveland, but I honestly don't really
>recall. Anyway, between finding them some aspirin for a headache and
>finding deli sandwiches I had a fun time being a chaperone. If you're
>in Cleveland and are interested, perhaps a Jazzbo at WRUW will be able
>to dig up a tape of the interview to play, if you ask nicely enough and
>they remember where it is.
>
>The other somewhat offshoot experience is that the Boredoms once stayed
>in my apartment for about 4 days. They are about the most quiet
>peaceful people I ever met in my life. I thought they'd be very loud.
>Yoshimi had a cute little Guinea Pig. Eye sleeps about 18 hours a day,
>so I hardly got to even say hello to him. They were opening for Sonic
>Youth in Cleveland, and Sonic Youth was headed up to Canada and the
>Boredoms were not. By the way, 1 member was not with them (a guitar
>player), he had visa trouble of some sort and Tim Foljahn (spelling?) of
>Half Japanese was the temporary replacement. They didn't speak much
>English and we spoke little Japanese but we all had a good time. I wish
>I could say I got to see their show w/Sonic Youth, but I was working
>that night. I did see them another time in Cleveland and I don't think
>I've ever seen a more energetic band in my life. Quiet a contrast with
>their behavior off stage.
>
>I'll go back to being quiet for now, and if you have any questions about
>anything I might be able to help with, just jot me an email.
>
>By the way, I talked to Dave at the Knitting Factory yesterday (guy who
>handles the web orders for Tzadik) and he didn't know anything about the
>Parachute box set. He guessed that they will not have any for
>distribution. I found the release date to be September 16, 1997, for
>the set, but the people I talked to did not believe the price was set in
>stone, but believed the $100 price is probably the retail price.
>
>Keep on listening,
>
>Allen
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 13:47:48 -0700
From: john shiurba <shiurba@sfo.com>
Subject: Re: Parachute years or Masada?
me:
> > I've heard this material, and consider it to be among Zorn's most
> > important, and most beautiful music.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
patrice:
> Beautiful? Hum... Intellectually challenging? yes. Intriguing? yes. Exciting
> and demanding? yes. But beautiful, really? :-).
really.
i've noticed that some people look at me funny when i say it, but this is
some of my favorite music ever, it's strange and demanding but it's also
moving and beautiful,
really.
- --
shiurba@sfo.com
http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 19:48:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: matthew.colonnese@yale.edu (Matt Colonnese)
Subject: Re: Ground Zero
try #2: the > are not quotes, actual message....
>
> I missed this the first time around:
>
>>> record in Ground Zero's swansong, Consume Red.
> ^^^^^^^^^
>
>Is this really the last? Does anyone know this for sure? Say it ain't so.
>
>Also related, has anyone seen Ground Zero _Plays Classics_ everyone in New
>York looks at me like I'm crazy when I mention this, but I have seen
>references to it's existence. Haven't I?
>
>matt
>
>
>------
>"Finally, something that would bring people together...even if it kept them
>apart, spatially."
- ------
"Finally, something that would bring people together...even if it kept them
apart, spatially."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 16:15:50 -0500 (CDT)
From: y9d62@TTACS.TTU.EDU
Subject: Re: Scott Bradley/Nino Rota
And where can I find the 8 1/2 soundtrack, also by Rota?
On Mon, 18 Aug 1997, BJOERN wrote:
> wellll someone mentioned Carl Stalling Project some days ago........
> great CDs......
> hmm can anyone tell me if there is any recording of Scott Bradley`s (MGM
> cartoons like Tom & Jerry) music except for the Tex Avery CD?????
> Personally I think that his stuff is even better than the Stalling music...
> (well just listen what David Shea did with parts of the Bradley stuff on
> "Cartoon for Scott Bradley" of the Shock Corridor CD)
>
> other question is: where can i find the Godfather pt 1 soundtrack by Nino
> Rota??
>
> BJOERN
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 19:19:16 -0700
From: stickman <stickman@warwick.net>
Subject: Phat Dub #2
Jeff the resident laswell scholar,
This may have been previously discussed:
I picked up the import Phat Dub #2. It says its a limited edition, and
the case says its "APC Tracks Vol. 2".
My copy did not have an insert front cover booklet/page, but it
did look to be factory sealed with the "Limited edition" sticker.
Is there a front cover for this CD, or is this the way they're
packaged?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 22:02:33 -0500 (CDT)
From: Brian & Sharon Beuchaw <beuchaw@enteract.com>
Subject: Re: Phat Dub #2
On Tue, 19 Aug 1997, stickman wrote:
> Jeff the resident laswell scholar,
>
> This may have been previously discussed:
>
> I picked up the import Phat Dub #2. It says its a limited edition, and
> the case says its "APC Tracks Vol. 2".
>
> My copy did not have an insert front cover booklet/page, but it
> did look to be factory sealed with the "Limited edition" sticker.
>
> Is there a front cover for this CD, or is this the way they're
> packaged?
It's the way that the ones at my local store look, so I'd guess that
you're not missing any inserts, etc.
cya
brian
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 20:25:09 -0700
From: Jeff Spirer <jeffs@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Phat Dub #2
At 07:19 PM 8/19/97 -0700, stickman wrote:
>Jeff the resident laswell scholar,
Hardly a scholar, but I do have a good line to information.
>
> This may have been previously discussed:
>
>I picked up the import Phat Dub #2. It says its a limited edition, and
>the case says its "APC Tracks Vol. 2".
>
> My copy did not have an insert front cover booklet/page, but it
>did look to be factory sealed with the "Limited edition" sticker.
>
> Is there a front cover for this CD, or is this the way they're
>packaged?
That's the way it comes. It is supposed to look like a CD-R, with the
title in handwriting on the CD itself.
Jeff Spirer
Axiom/Material
http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 01:20:45 -0400
From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey)
Subject: Re: Ground Zero
>I missed this the first time around:
>>record in Ground Zero's swansong, Consume Red.
^^^^^^^^
>Is this really the last? Does anyone know this for sure? Say it ain't so.
As far as I know it's not. I have a feeling the person who wrote this
didn't mean it in this way, but then again, I can't speak for him/her.
Ground Zero is in the process of releasing 3 discs in a series on
Otomo's label Creativeman. The first two, "Consume Red", and
"Conflagration Red", are out, and the third, title TBA, is on its way.
"Conflagration" is a remix of "Consume", Ground Zero's first ambient
recording based upon samples of Korean hojok player Kim Suk Chul (sp?).
Remixes are by
the following (there may be others): Gastr Del Sol, DJ Mao, Stock Hausen
and Walkman, Bob Ostertag, Dicson Dee, and Violent Onshen Geisha.
>Also related, has anyone seen Ground Zero _Plays Classics_ everyone in New
>York looks at me like I'm crazy when I mention this, but I have seen
>references to it's existence. Haven't I?
It's actually "Plays Standards", and I was wondering the same thing.
I haven't attempted to hunt it down yet, but I haven't seen it in any
stores or seen any mail order places carrying it. It's on Nani Records
(NCD 201 CD) and is distributed through Harmonia Mundi (in the UK at least).
The Wire (June '97) reviewed it on p. 60.
- -Patrick
------------------------------
End of zorn-list Digest V2 #102
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