ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/zorn-list/archive/v02.n093

Internet Message Format | 1997-08-07 | 20KB

From: [e-mail] (zorn-list Digest)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: zorn-list Digest V2 #93
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Sender: [e-mail]
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Precedence:


zorn-list Digest        Friday, August 8 1997        Volume 02 : Number 093



In this issue:

    RE: Melvins
    Manners/Thread Labeling
    Re: I Dream of Kagel
    Re: I Dream of Kagel
    RE: Melvins
    Zorn's roadrunner
    Re: Naked City Notation
    Re: Naked City Notation
    Re: Naked City Notation
    Billboard Article
    Re: Billboard Article
    Re: I Dream of Zorno
    Re: Melvins
    free-improv Internet Only performance
    Masahiko Togashi
    Re: I Dream of Kagel
    Re: Masahiko Togashi

See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the zorn-list
or zorn-list-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 15:34:28 -0500
From: Marc Foster <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Melvins

On Saturday, August 02, 1997, [e-mail] wrote:

Anyone care to enlighten me a bit about the Melvins?

They're my favorite rock band and one of my top three or so favorites in =
all genres, so I'm a little biased when I say that they are amazing. If =
I could recommend only one of their albums, it would be Houdini. Other =
favorites of mine are Stag, Eggnog, Bullhead, and Honky (the most recent =
until the new one comes out in a couple of weeks). Stoner Witch and =
Ozma/Gluey Porch Treatments are also good, but I wouldn't let them get =
in my way while looking for Houdini.

There are also solo albums that I haven't heard, I'd be very interested =
to hear comments on them.=20

The Melvins have a reputation for playing very slow, heavy songs. When I =
first started listening to them (In high school, while riding a =
skateboard) they were playing these long, brutally slow songs when most =
of the other bands that we listened to were playing fast sub-minute =
hardcore punk songs. They still have this agonizing slowness in some of =
their music, but they are branching into more different sounds on each =
new album. Stag and Honky, their two most recent, are the most =
experimental albums they have put out, excepting possibly Prick, which =
must have been a joke played to spite alterna-dorks who liked Stoner =
Witch (their closest brush with popularity) and rushed out to buy the =
next Melvins disk. If you're looking for the slow, heavy thing, check =
out Lysol. It's one 45-minute track. From what I have heard about L'eng =
T'che by Naked City, these two might be similar. I'd like to hear from =
someone who has heard Lysol and L'eng T'che. I haven't bought the Naked =
City Black Box yet because I already have Grand Guignol, which I =
understand contains all of Torture Garden. If I heard a good =
recommendation on L'eng T'che, I'd probably buy it.

Marc A. Foster

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 17:01:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Rich Ladew)
Subject: Manners/Thread Labeling

Dear revolutionary listeners:

How About discussing music instead of political arguments about history?
Also, I am beginning to become confused about labels of threads (ie:
Burroughs) when they dont have anything to do with the subject.  I think the
whole line of this subject matter is very interesting, but I'm really into
burroughs, and I keep thinking Im going to get more info on him or his
unfortunate death.

Much respect,
rich
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 17:09:36 +0000
From: "Charles Gillett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: I Dream of Kagel

On Tue, 05 Aug 1997 15:29:55 -0700, john shiurba wrote:
>I wrote:
>>I think it's interesting that Kagel was an influence on Zorn as
>>a youngster, and now they're essentially contemporaries as
>>composers.
>
> I kind of doubt that Kagel would agree. (nor do I, really)

   That they are contemporaries?  I was using the word in a broad
sense, I guess.  The age difference between Zorn and Kagel is
almost the same as that between Mozart and Haydn (22 vs. 24 years),
and Mozart and Haydn are often spoken of together as composers of
the Classical era.  I suppose there are people would would put
Haydn into a slightly older school, and I of course can't say that
in 200 years people will see Zorn and Kagel as being of the same
era.

   Then again, perhaps you were questioning whether or not that
observation was interesting.  I can only speak for myself.


- -- Charles

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 15:15:37 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: I Dream of Kagel

On Thu, 7 Aug 1997 17:09:36 +0000  "Charles Gillett" wrote:
>
> On Tue, 05 Aug 1997 15:29:55 -0700, john shiurba wrote:
> >I wrote:
> >>I think it's interesting that Kagel was an influence on Zorn as
> >>a youngster, and now they're essentially contemporaries as
> >>composers.
> >
> > I kind of doubt that Kagel would agree. (nor do I, really)
>
>    That they are contemporaries?  I was using the word in a broad
> sense, I guess.  The age difference between Zorn and Kagel is
> almost the same as that between Mozart and Haydn (22 vs. 24 years),
> and Mozart and Haydn are often spoken of together as composers of
> the Classical era.  I suppose there are people would would put
> Haydn into a slightly older school, and I of course can't say that
> in 200 years people will see Zorn and Kagel as being of the same
> era.
>
>    Then again, perhaps you were questioning whether or not that
> observation was interesting.  I can only speak for myself.

Didn't John mean that Kagel might not accept Zorn as a pair in
the clanish club of "modern composers"?

    Patrice.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:52:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: [e-mail] (Allan)
Subject: RE: Melvins

(warning: subjective & unsupported opinions to follow)

Re: Melvins

To each his own, of course, but I thought it was interesting that one of
the two Melvins albums that Marc Foster *doesn't* wholeheartedly recommend
is by far my favorite: the two-on-one disc pairing of Ozma and Gluey Porch
Treatments.  That's two of their earliest, preceeded only by some singles,
comp tracks, and the live set found on the excellent (and none-too-slow) 10
Songs CD.

Ozma, after all, has the ultimate Melvins track: their cover version of
"Candy-O" by the Cars!

It's also the first Melvins I heard, and the one that made me fall in love
with the band.  And so, to me at least, it's the best representation of the
Melvins "sound", that was if not the heaviest thing I'd ever heard (thank
you Saint Vitus) was a type of heaviness previously unexperienced.  Also,
it's a great value since it has got 33 tracks!

The other record highly recommended by someone else on this list, Eggnog,
is quite good, but having only four songs, is hardly the ultimate Melvins
statement.  Buzz is at his most Ian Gillan-esque on the second track,
though.

Houdini is great, yes, but the albums since then (Prick, Stoner Witch,
Stag, and Honky) all suffer from an apparent desire to, as Marc says,
experiment...outside the realm of the style they had perfected.
Previously, all Melvins stuff could be considered "experimental", within a
framework that began with Black Flag and Black Sabbath.  The slower, noiser
stuff on Eggnog and Lysol (which is one long track, but *not* one song --
notice the Flipper and Alice Cooper covers on there?) are in keeping with
that, as are some of the material on those solo discs.  But the newer
albums tend towards a lot of BS -- noise stuff, sampling stuff, indie-pop
stuff -- that I don't buy a Melvins album hoping to hear.  The worst
offender, by far, was the Prick album, which was probably meant as a joke,
yes, but still sucks if you have to pay money for it.  (It came out
*before* Stoner Witch, by the way.)

Basically, I understand that the Melvins don't want to do the same slow
heavy thing forever, even though that's what they're good at.  But for the
most part, they aren't that good at doing anything new.

Marc: if you like Lysol, and the last track on Eggnog, you will likely like
Naked City's L'eng T'che.  It's very heavy, they thank the Melvins in the
liner notes for a reason, I figure the album is Zorn's tribute to them.
Also, not all of Torture Garden is on Grand Guignol, but I assume you also
have the first self-titled Naked City album which has the rest of the
tracks...

So, *my* recommendation for the Melvins virgin is to pick up Ozma/Gluey
Porch Treatments for the original, classic Melvins sound, to get Houdini
for their big time debut, and then either Lysol or Eggnog to hear some
further extremes of their sound.  And then 10 Songs if you want to rock,
and Bullhead which was the follow-up to Ozma. (and, by the way, if you
really liked the beginning of Lysol, get the first couple of discs by the
band Earth.)  AVOID Prick.  At this point you'll be a hopeless Melvins fan
and will buy the rest of the albums to complete your collection, all of
which have some (or a lot) of great stuff on 'em! (even Prick does,
actually, there's about three good tracks - shoulda been a 7")

- --Allan (looking forward to the Melvins double disc singles series comp)

PS I haven't listened to the solo discs in a long time, but remember that I
liked the Joe Preston (former bassist) one best, it's similar to Earth
(he's an ex-member) and also to his current project, the very heavy, very
weird one-man-band Thrones.  Dale's was my next favorite, it's not too
Melvins-y but his pop side I can appreciate better when it's not in the
middle of an "actual" Melvins album...

whoo that's enuff Melvins talk for now

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 09:48:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Marc Lambert <[e-mail]>
Subject: Zorn's roadrunner

Guy Klucesvek (accordion) has a cd "Manhattan Cascade" on CRI with a 1986
composition called "Road Runner" which is inspired by cartoons and based
on Carl Stalling's "Looney Tunes." The whole cd is great but this track is
worth the price of admission alone.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:08:01 -0700
From: "pjm" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Naked City Notation

Thanks to everyone who had some answers! We'd love to see some copies of
the notation for anything from Torture Garden! :}

> There IS a recent piece for solo piano, so far
> unreleased, but perhaps already recorded, called Carny, written for
Stephen
> Drury, who has perfomed and recorded lots of John Cage's music, as well
as
> many pieces by Zorn.

 Anyone have any information on this piece? Thanks!
                        pjm


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:10:44 -0700
From: "pjm" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Naked City Notation

> > >copy of
> > >hilarious roadrunner-inspired score for accordion,
> >
> > is the actual score of the piece which has many cartoon's cut out &
pasted
> > on it, & lots of descriptive, non-strictly notated sections.
>
> it is. screens and characters cut out from roadrunner, bugs bunny
> cartoons, etc...
>
> also has one of the hellist notated passages. one section consists of
> improvised dance style: little polka, tango, waltz... each lasting about
> one second...

    Does anyone know where i could get this score or other Zorn scores?

                        Thanks!
                            pjm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 09:59:38 -0500
From: "Glenn Astarita" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Naked City Notation

The latest BMG music club brochure lists "Naked City"  as a selection...
things are looking up, eh ?

glenn

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 09:11:16 PDT
From: "David Brunelle" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Billboard Article

For anyone interested, the August 9 issue of Billboard has an article on
the forthcoming Laswell Bob Marley remix album.

Dave Brunelle
[e-mail]

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 09:32:50 -0700
From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Billboard Article

At 09:11 AM 8/8/97 PDT, David Brunelle wrote:
>For anyone interested, the August 9 issue of Billboard has an article on
>the forthcoming Laswell Bob Marley remix album.

The one-sheet copy will be at the Axiom Web Site next week, and hopefully
the cover art also, as long as it gets finished.  I'm not sure how relevant
it is to this list, as it is very close to old-school reggae dub, with some
ambient stuff over the top.


Jeff Spirer
Axiom Records: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/
Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 13:30:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: I Dream of Zorno

    I once had a dream that I was attacked by Bill Laswell's killer
attack dogs and some karate lady in a red spandex outfit had to come to my
rescue and kick the dogs away.  Sick, I know.

Paul
[e-mail]
           -------------------------------------------------------------------
  GROOVE             O(+> (the artist formerly known as Prince) <+)O
- ----------            e - m - a - n - c - i - p - a - t - i - o - n
one nation            The Exodus Has Concluded - Welcome 2 The Dawn
           -------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 11:40:37 -0700
From: "josh miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Melvins

>PS I haven't listened to the solo discs in a long time, but remember that
I
>liked the Joe Preston (former bassist) one best, it's similar to Earth
>(he's an ex-member) and also to his current project, the very heavy, very
>weird one-man-band Thrones

i think i've seen him--i went to a show at my local library with a band
called the thrones on the flyer...nobody at the show actually used the name
to describe themseves, but there was one guy who did play all by himself,
which i suppose would explain it. anyway, he had long hair and a long bushy
beard, and looked kind of like an aging hippie gone bad. said he was the
old man from the woods, or something to that effect. he had these huge
amplifiers, and drum machines and samplers and no small number of
pedals...basically everything you need to be a one man band. he played one
of those double-neck guitarbass things, using mostly the bass part,
distorted of course. the set was very loud, some of it sounded like bad
heavy metal, some had a pretty good groove, the singing (when he did it)
was awful, but for the most part it was very entertaining. plus, i have the
utmost respect for anyone who can make that much noise all by themselves.
of course, these idiots kept walking behind him during songs and tripping
over the extension cord, unplugging everything, and then he'd have to spend
a few minutes reprogramming everything.

josh

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 16:42:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Whitman <[e-mail]>
Subject: free-improv Internet Only performance

Howdy all, I am part of Alfred Bizarro to be Exactly, a noisy free-improv
/ soundscape group that will be playing an Internet-Only performance on
Saturday, August 9th at 7PM Eastern Time. If you'd like to drop by for
some time and listen in, get the free RealPlayer at www.real.com and then
head over to http://www.netspace.org/users/bwhitman/bizarro.shtml and
listen in to us.

This is our second time doing this, but we're still trying to finetune the
process, so any feedback you can give while we're playing would be great.
ABTBE is an all-free-improv band from the NJ/NYC area. We do a lot of
looping / textural / loud ambient stuff. If you really dig us, we have 3
CDs available on independent LMDF records.

That URL again is http://www.netspace.org/users/bwhitman/bizarro.shtml

Thanks! If this is something your free-improv / experimental / whatever
band would be interested in doing, please get in touch, we've got some
ideas about using this technology stuff for the common good of our musics.

Brian Whitman
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 13:52:38 -0800
From: john <[e-mail]>
Subject: Masahiko Togashi

can anyone help me out with a brief description of the artist and his work
Moon Dog.

thanks,

j


- -------------------------
john paczkowski
[e-mail]
- -------------------------
can see no "purpose" in game.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 14:44:31 -0700
From: john shiurba <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: I Dream of Kagel

me:
> > I kind of doubt that Kagel would agree. (nor do I, really)

charles g
>    That they are contemporaries?  I was using the word in a broad
> sense, I guess.  The age difference between Zorn and Kagel is
> almost the same as that between Mozart and Haydn (22 vs. 24 years),
> and Mozart and Haydn are often spoken of together as composers of
> the Classical era.  I suppose there are people would would put
> Haydn into a slightly older school, and I of course can't say that
> in 200 years people will see Zorn and Kagel as being of the same
> era.

what i meant that was that:
(my guess)--Kagel would undoubtedly squirm at being grouped (as a
contemporary) with Zorn.

(my opinion)-- I think that undoubtedly in 200 years people will (in
spite of his S. American heritage) group Kagel with the movement of
50s-60s European avant garde composers that included Stockhausen,
Maderna, Boulez etc. While Zorn will be seen as a postmodernist--
someone who-- in the wake of free jazz, modern classical (ie Kagel & his
contemporaries), and rock-- developed a musical system that attempted to
incorporate many or all of those things together. It seems that to call two
composers contemporary when one's music _had to_ happen first, is
inaccurate. As an example, consider Anthony Braxton and Charlie Parker,
only about 30 years apart but no one would ever call them contemporaries,
because Parker's work opened the door for developments in music that
(along with other things) would eventually make possible  the
developments of Braxton.

Your analogy of Mozart and Haydn is ill-conceived, due not only to the
extreme compression of musical developments of the 20th century, but
also because there's no antecedent relationship between the two-- as you
say, they were essentially creating the same kind of music.

- --



[e-mail]

http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 18:01:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: "k.   drudge" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Masahiko Togashi

> can anyone help me out with a brief description of the artist and his work
> Moon Dog.
>
I too would be interested in some information about Togashi;  I can supply
the following:  I have a CD recorded sometime in the late seventies called
`Song of soil: The paris session volume 1' or something like that, on take
one records. (a japanese import).
  it features don cherry on bamboo flute and pocket trumpet
and charlie haden on bass as well as togashi on percussion.
it's great; very loose and free sounding, but at the same time with a lot
of `progression'.  togashi seems to be a very creative percussionist.
keldon

------------------------------

End of zorn-list Digest V2 #93
******************************

To subscribe to zorn-list Digest, send the command:

    subscribe zorn-list-digest

in the body of a message to "[e-mail]".  If you want to
subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such
as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-zorn-list":

    subscribe zorn-list-digest [e-mail]

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest"
in the commands above with "zorn-list".

Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in
pub/lists/zorn-list/archive.  These are organized by date.