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zorn-list Digest       Saturday, April 19 1997       Volume 02 : Number 077



In this issue:

    Re: Filmworks 3/Book of Heads?
    Re: Filmworks 3/Book of Heads?
    a question...
    Re: meters
    Re: meters
    kronos
    Koch's Tzadik webpage
    RE: Eye
    Re: Eye
    Re: Koch's Tzadik webpage
    john schott
    Re: Book of Heads?
    Re: john schott
    Re: Koch's Tzadik webpage
    Re: Filmworks 3/Book of Heads?
    Re: Koch's Tzadik webpage
    Re: Book of Heads
    Re: Koch's Tzadik webpage
    Re: Koch's Tzadik webpage
    Re: Koch's Tzadik webpage
    Re: Book of Heads?
    The Lion for Real
    Re: Wayne Horvitz answers
    Derek Bailey with djs
    Re: Derek Bailey with djs
    Re: Derek Bailey with djs
    Re: Buckethead vs Hellborg, Lane & Sipe
    Re: Intellectual property is theft! II
    Re: Masada live (was:Intellectual property is theft! II_
    Re: Intellectual property is theft! II
    Re: Masada live (was:Intellectual property is theft! II_
    Redbird
    Re: Derek Bailey with djs
    Re: Redbird
    Re: "darling of academia"

See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the zorn-list
or zorn-list-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:50:21 -0400
From: "ALAN E. KAYSER" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Filmworks 3/Book of Heads?

Herb Levy wrote:
>
> >> I had the Book of Heads, which I thought was awful.  I think Ribot is an
> >> excellent guitarist, the stink wasn't his fault.  I just thought it was
> >> all kitsch, style with no substance.
> >I would second this. Book of Heads ranks as my worst
> >Zorn album. From the music itself to the mutually masturbatory
> >liner notes by Zorn and Ribot, I could have done without this one.
> >Including transcriptions for all the tracks (as opposed to only a couple)
> >might have redeemed it some, as that seemed to be the
> >whole point of the album. Zorn composes for improvised, free guitar.
>
> Maybe when you listen to free improv you'd rather here mindless noodling
> and rambling jamming, but I'd rather a free improviser knew how to interupt
> their own habits (& those of others).  &, if nothing else, Book of Heads is
> a very effective set of etudes to acquaint a free improvising guitarist
> with a wider range of techniques than might otherwise come to mind, to
> provide more options of how to not fall into stylistic ruts, through
> unnatural juxtapositions, and making other non-idiomatic demands on a
> player.  Like any other kind of music, free improvising doesn't just "come
> naturally", and these are some of the best conceptual workouts for a free
> improvisor of any instrument.
>
> I'll grant you it may not be the easiest of Zorn's music to listen to, &
> taste is really the issue here, but if you find Book of Heads to be of so
> little use, how do you respond to other Zorn works from the same period,
> say, Complete Guide to Strategy (while not notated even as loosely as the
> Heads are, in many ways these are a similar series of pieces for
> saxophone), or the duos with Eugene Chadbourne recently released on Incus?
>
> Book of Heads is also indicative of a kind of composition developing within
> the free improvising downtown NY scene of fifteen years ago and is an
> important precursor of Zorn's game pieces.
>
> Like I wrote above, there's no getting around taste, but I'd sure rather
> hear this than any of the sophomoric stuff on the "first recordings" CD.
>
> Herb Levy
> [e-mail]
Sir
How does one "interupt" their own music, and also "here" it?  On the
other hand, does the name "Zorn" on something send everyone salivating
to the local HMV/Tower?  Isn't it possible that Book of Head just is
unlistenable no matter who composed/played it? Opinions about music are
just that, it depends on the listener.  However, if it smells like it,
looks like it, I sure don't have to taste it to find out what it is. I
enjoy so much of what JZ has done, this just happens to not be one of
them.

Alan E Kayser
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:43:32 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Herb Levy)
Subject: Re: Filmworks 3/Book of Heads?

Briefly, there's a large body of music (and other arts, too), in the 20th
Century, in which the artist tries to avoid responding in pre-conditioned
ways, in order to forego cliches and unconscious stylistic quirks.
Musicians from John Cage to Derek Bailey have tried various ways to make
music that doesn't fall into easily recognizable ruts & Zorn, particularly
in his game pieces, tries to do this as well.  I used the word "interupt"
to describe one attempt at this kind of subversion of taste.  In most
cases, it's little more than a way to not make the obvious choice.

Like I wrote earlier, & you seem to agree with this at least in part,
musical tastes vary.  What seems like crap to one person may be another's
favorite work and, though all of us here share an interest in Zorn, I'd be
surprised if there weren't several strong differences as to which of his
works were best and worst.  (Let's not start a survey or anything, though,
okay?)

Isn't it possible that the folks who find Book of Heads to be valuable may
be looking for something in music other than you are, & that some of them
may have little use for the works by Zorn that you treasure most?  This
doesn't mean that either group is wrong, or bad, or mis-informed, just that
they don't share the same musical values.

Bests,

Herb



>Sir
>How does one "interupt" their own music, and also "here" it?  On the
>other hand, does the name "Zorn" on something send everyone salivating
>to the local HMV/Tower?  Isn't it possible that Book of Head just is
>unlistenable no matter who composed/played it? Opinions about music are
>just that, it depends on the listener.  However, if it smells like it,
>looks like it, I sure don't have to taste it to find out what it is. I
>enjoy so much of what JZ has done, this just happens to not be one of
>them.
>
>Alan E Kayser
>[e-mail]


Herb Levy
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 21:58:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: a question...

for whomever will respond,

     i'm relatively new to the list and am not sure how the group as a whole
feels about bootleg trading...i'd like to get some live video footage of
zorn's naked city...i have mr. bungle videos for trade, which leads me to my
next question...does anyone on this list care for mr. bungle? i'm sure the
majority is well aware of who they are and their relationship to zorn...i'm
also interested in cobra and any performances john zorn and mike patton have
done together...thanks,

                                                                jeff

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:38:12 -0700
From: Justin Morrison <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: meters

Sean Wilkie wrote:

> following on the zony mash debate: are there any cds by the meters
> available? - i think there may be a double cd compilation? also the
> drummer is on the new ulmer/worrell/laswell  project "third rail",
> - -anybody heard this yet?

The double CD anthology you're thinking of is called "Funkify Your
Life," and, upon your listening to it, will do just that.  There should
be plently of other Meters discs out there, though.

"South Delta Space Age" by Third Rail (w/ the M.'s drummer Zig
Modeliste, P-funk icon Bernie Worrell, and Laswell - from Painkiller; I
knew I could tie Zorn into this somewhere) is also excruciatingly funky.

Hope this helps,
Justin

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 20:17:32 -0700
From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: meters

At 10:38 PM 4/17/97 -0700, Justin Morrison wrote:

>Sean Wilkie wrote:
>
>> following on the zony mash debate: are there any cds by the meters
>> available? - i think there may be a double cd compilation? also the
>> drummer is on the new ulmer/worrell/laswell  project "third rail",
>> - -anybody heard this yet?

It's been out in Japan for well over a year.  It's great, although it's not
jazz if that is what anyone is expecting.  It's 1/2 Ulmer (and some people
don't care too much for his voice so be warned), 1/4 Meters, and 1/4 Booker
T and the MGs.

>"South Delta Space Age" by Third Rail (w/ the M.'s drummer Zig
>Modeliste, P-funk icon Bernie Worrell, and Laswell - from Painkiller; I
>knew I could tie Zorn into this somewhere) is also excruciatingly funky.

I would like to make it clear that this is *Blood's* recording.  It's
obvious from both the music and the credits.




Jeff Spirer
Axiom/Material
www.hyperreal.com/axiom/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:04:48 -0700
From: Josh Miller <[e-mail]>
Subject: kronos

i saw the kronos quartet tonight...it was great but kind of
disapointing. 9 scheduled pieces, 3 encores, and they still didn't do
any of the zorn pieces. oh well. they did do cage, harry patch, and ken
valitsky, among others.
one interesting thing: john zorn was mentioned in the program as a
"modern master." the concert was at my university; does this mean zorn
may yet become a "darling of academia"...?

    josh

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 06:06:42 -0400
From: peter tush <[e-mail]>
Subject: Koch's Tzadik webpage

Does anyone know if thre are plans to eventually update the information on
the Tzadik webpage. I used to consult it quite often to figure out what to
get next, and it used to give release dates. But I don't think it has changed
since November, so I don't have a clue about which releases to plan for next,
nor are there any descriptions of the newest batch of releases.

By the way, I really liked the new Frith, which is more varied and satisfying
than any of his recent projects, but has several connections with "Allies"
and has a couple rock-oriented guitar moments, one with organ.

I also liked the new Ribot, which I was really surprised by. It is REALLY
varried, with a couple Lounge Lizard ensemble cuts, a Cuban band piece, a
solo flamenco-tinged cut, several dark pieces for string trio (bass, violin
and guitar), and some downtown jumpcut style compositions for "Aleta Queen of
Mars." Surprisingly, there are no real rocking compositions, but many
interesting pieces from other genres.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the new Elliott Sharp? Any release date yet
for the new Nana Vasconcelos?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Apr 97 09:07:59 +0100
From: simon lucas <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Eye

>>they  record and exhibit.  2 CD's out and a new one this April we hear.
>>the CD i have is on public bath: "budub'.
>
>Is that different than the Japanese release of that album on Time Bomb?
oh no. my mistake. i just get these record labels confused. mine is time
bomb, methinks.

school of information systems
kingston university
0181 547 2000 x2680
home: 0181 892 3848

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Apr 97 09:09:44 +0100
From: simon lucas <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Eye

>>Puzzle Punks "Budub" LP says 1985
>>as the copyright date and i'm pretty
>>sure it should be 1996 instead. creative
>>revising of music history, perhaps?

and isn't some of the boredoms stuff done in 1999?

simon

school of information systems
kingston university
0181 547 2000 x2680
home: 0181 892 3848

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 08:48:21 -0400
From: "Andy Marks" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Koch's Tzadik webpage

> From: peter tush <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Koch's Tzadik webpage
> Date: Friday, April 18, 1997 6:06 AM
>
> Does anyone know if thre are plans to eventually update the information on

> the Tzadik webpage. I used to consult it quite often to figure out what to

> get next, and it used to give release dates. But I don't think it has
changed
> since November, so I don't have a clue about which releases to plan for
next,
> nor are there any descriptions of the newest batch of releases.
Ditto here.
I think this might have to do with Steve Smith changing jobs. He's
a list member and used to work for Koch but now works for Knitting
Factory, I think.

Does anyone know if Filmworks 4 is due to be released in the next
batch on April 22? I recall that someone posted a review of it here
a little while ago but I haven't seen it yet.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 08:11:51 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Eric Schneider)
Subject: john schott

Has anyone picked up up the Schott album on Tzadik?  With Ribot, Dunn, and
Wolleson among others, it sounds like it would be quite good.  Any
thoughts/impressions of the album?

- - Eric

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 07:04:53 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Herb Levy)
Subject: Re: Book of Heads?

Christopher Hamilton wrote:

>I'm not sure I understand this last sentence.  I've only seen the bits of
>the score excerpted in the liner notes, but the techniques called for seem
>pretty specific to the guitar.  How would, say, a trombonist make use of
>these?  (Aside from studying their general structure.)

How about "of all of the sets of exercises to stretch concepts & techniques
for free improvising performers on various instruments, this is one of the
most effective."  Is that more clear?

>     I also worry that the principal effect these pieces would have on any
>instrumentalist would be to encourage the kind of jump-cutting
>postmodernism Zorn has often favored.  While this approach has been used
>well by Zorn and others, it seems to turn to cliche as readily as other
>structural techniques, if not more so.

That it doesn't have to do so is more a matter of the performer in question
than it is of the process itself.  As etudes, these pieces add to a
player's repertoire of behaviors, they shouldn't dictate the entire range
of their playing.

>Again, the notation reprinted in the liners doesn't seem very loose at
>all.

Loose in the sense that they don't follow a line closely, which I think the
solo saxophone pieces, because they aren't written out, do more often.

> This disc
>just sounds like what I'd expect guitar etudes written by John Zorn to
>sound like, and I'm more impressed by Zorn when he's challenging my
>expectations.

The use value of these pieces is to get guitarists to challenge their own
expectations and loosen up their sense of continuity, they are studies in
technical issues for performers.

>I can't comment on other approaches to composition developing in that time
>and scene, but _The Book of Heads_ just seems regressive compared to
>the game pieces.  The game pieces work by giving a structure to
>improvisation while leaving the content up to the improvisors.  _The Book
>of Heads_ seems to be an attempt to notate along traditional lines the
>kinds of extended technique and structuring principles used by a few free
>improvisors, and especially Chadbourne.

For people who don't already have the skills needed to free improvise, it
can be far more useful to perform works that stretch their sense of how
ideas should follow each other than to just play what comes to mind.  Often
when doing the latter players end up noodling in whatever form they are
most comfortable in without thinking much.

>The game pieces leave a lot of
>room for improvisation, while _The Book of Heads_ seems to leave almost
>none.

When the game pieces are played by folks who don't have experience
subverting their habits, they are less likely to manifest the possibilities
of what the works can do - the range of changes narrows appreciably.  You
cn hear this on the Knitting Factory Cobra CD, the poets track for one (I
don't have this disc anymore so I'm not sure I can suggest others, but
they're there),where the performers rely too much on easy (rather than
interesting) solutions to the problems of the work's structure.


Again, I'm not saying I'll hunt down & shoot anyone who refuses to admit
Book of Heads is the best music they've ever heard, I'm just making clear
that despite the extremely negative comments on these pieces made earlier
this week, there's at least one reasonable stance for not dismissing them.


Herb Levy
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 07:05:06 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Herb Levy)
Subject: Re: john schott

>Has anyone picked up up the Schott album on Tzadik?  With Ribot, Dunn, and
>Wolleson among others, it sounds like it would be quite good.  Any
>thoughts/impressions of the album?
>
>- Eric

Ribot's not on the disc - it's a quartet of Schott, Dunn, and Wolleson and
an operatic tenor, John Horton Murray.

As a sound world, the work is made up of relatively straight classical song
settings placed within a series of thematic improvisations by the
instrumentalists.  It's good, but I imagine some folks on the list will
find some of it disappointing.  It's not as rocking, or swinging, as the
personnel may lead you to believe.


Herb Levy
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 15:59:39 +0200
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Koch's Tzadik webpage

Andy Marks wrote:

> Does anyone know if Filmworks 4 is due to be released in the next
> batch on April 22? I recall that someone posted a review of it here
> a little while ago but I haven't seen it yet.

That was me posting a review. It seems that here in Europe we get all the
Tzadik releases about a month before you guys in the USA. I don't know why,
but it isn't the first time I see this happen. Filmworks IV is very much
worthwhile. In my opinion, it is the best installment of the Filmworks series
so far. So you have something to look forward to...

Frankco.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Apr 97 10:37:32 EDT
From: "M.Ho" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Filmworks 3/Book of Heads?

> Isn't it possible that Book of Head just is
> unlistenable no matter who composed/played it? Opinions about music are
> just that, it depends on the listener.  However, if it smells like it,
> looks like it, I sure don't have to taste it to find out what it is. I
> enjoy so much of what JZ has done, this just happens to not be one of
> them.
>
 I saw Ribot perform this albom live which gave me a greater
appreciation for the disc.  Perhaps I would not have liked it as much
if I hadnt seen it live because live performances do tend to bring a whole
new life to music in itself.  I'm sure Ribot is no longer doing
performances of this music, but if he ever does I highly recommend one
seeing it.  I think that everything that has been complained about as
unlistenable, Ribot makes up for in the spontanaity of a live show.
At the time when I saw it, I thought it was one of the most refreshing
things I had seen in a long time.
Mary.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:12:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: "k.   drudge" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Koch's Tzadik webpage

> > Does anyone know if Filmworks 4 is due to be released in the next
> > batch on April 22? I recall that someone posted a review of it here
> > a little while ago but I haven't seen it yet.
>
> That was me posting a review. It seems that here in Europe we get all the
> Tzadik releases about a month before you guys in the USA. I don't know why,
> but it isn't the first time I see this happen. Filmworks IV is very much
> worthwhile. In my opinion, it is the best installment of the Filmworks series
> so far. So you have something to look forward to...

I've seen this disc at record shops in canada.

Keldon

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:23:04 -0400
From: "Andy Marks" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Book of Heads

>The use value of these pieces is to get guitarists to challenge their own
>expectations and loosen up their sense of continuity, they are studies in
>technical issues for performers.
I whole-heartedly agree with this. This is why I didn't like the album.
This also makes a case for including the entire score, which Zorn
didn't do. It seems kind of incomplete without it as a lot of the
pieces sound very similar.

- -------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Marks
Software Engineer
MTS-PowerTek, Inc.
- -------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:28:02 +0200 (MSZ)
From: BJOERN <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Koch's Tzadik webpage

On Fri, 18 Apr 1997, Andy Marks wrote:

> > From: peter tush <[e-mail]>
> > To: [e-mail]
> > Subject: Koch's Tzadik webpage
> > Date: Friday, April 18, 1997 6:06 AM
> >
> > Does anyone know if thre are plans to eventually update the information on
>
> > the Tzadik webpage. I used to consult it quite often to figure out what to
>
> > get next, and it used to give release dates. But I don't think it has
> changed
> > since November, so I don't have a clue about which releases to plan for
> next,
> > nor are there any descriptions of the newest batch of releases.
> Ditto here.
> I think this might have to do with Steve Smith changing jobs. He's
> a list member and used to work for Koch but now works for Knitting
> Factory, I think.
>
> Does anyone know if Filmworks 4 is due to be released in the next
> batch on April 22? I recall that someone posted a review of it here
> a little while ago but I haven't seen it yet.
>
Filmworks 4 is already out for some weeks
BJOERN

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:45:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: [e-mail] (m. rizzi)
Subject: Re: Koch's Tzadik webpage

peter tush, demi-God and Icon sez:
>
>Does anyone know if thre are plans to eventually update the information on
>the Tzadik webpage. I used to consult it quite often to figure out what to
>get next, and it used to give release dates. But I don't think it has changed
>since November, so I don't have a clue about which releases to plan for next,
>nor are there any descriptions of the newest batch of releases.

    Yes, there are plans for a Tzadik website.
    It will have a different address from the
    excellent public service that Steve Smith
    did while at Koch.

    I'll post the more details of the when and
    where as I soon as I know. Rough estimate:
    some basic descripion content should be
    ready in about a six weeks.

- ------------------------------------------------------- [e-mail]
                   "Another nerd with a soulpatch"              -=home=-

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 20:35:17 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Steve Smith)
Subject: Re: Koch's Tzadik webpage

Mike Rizzi wrote:

>        Yes, there are plans for a Tzadik website.
>        It will have a different address from the
>        excellent public service that Steve Smith
>        did while at Koch.

*Blush*  Aw, gee... I love you, man!

Seriously, this is great news.  I'd actually been toying with the idea of
trying to continue adding to the Tzadik page by e-mailing text to a friend
at Koch, but the page Mike is talking about will be much, much better, with
graphics and sound in addition to text descriptions.

However, since I relenquish my Tzadik info source powertrip not lightly,
here's my last shot: a tracklisting for the Burt Bacharach double CD (which
in my humble opinion is amazing):

Wayne Horvitz and Robin Holcomb: Close to You
Marc Ribot Ensemble: Don't Go Breaking My Heart
Dave Douglas: Wives and Lovers
Guy Klucevsek: Who Gets the Guy / This Guy's in Love with You
Kramer: Walk on By [AMAZINGLY SWEET - ss]
Erik Friedlander and Chimera: Promises, Promises
Joey Baron (solo): Alfie
Zeena Parkins: Freefall
Marc Ribot (solo): Don't Go Breaking My Heart
Fred Frith: Trains & Boats & Planes
Medeski Martin & Wood: Do You Know the Way to San Jose
Elliott Sharp: The Man Who Shot Liberty Vallance
Marie McAuliffe: I Say a Little Prayer
Mike Patton: She's Gone Away
Lloyd Cole and Robert Quine: I Just Don't Know What to Do with Myself
Anthony Coleman and Selfhaters: A House Is Not a Home
Yuka Honda and Sean Lennon: The Look of Love
Shelley Hirsch: What's New Pussy Cat?
Bill Frisell: What the World Needs Now Is Love
Eyvind Kang: I Took My Strength from You (I Had None)

"Burt Bacharach's compositions explode the expectations of what a popular
song is supposed to be.  Advanced harmonies and chord changes with
unexpected turnarounds and modulations, unusual changing time signatures
and rhythmic twists, often in uneven numbers of bars.  But he makes it all
sound so natural you can't get it out of your head or stop whistling it.
Maddeningly complex, sometimes deceptively simple, these are more than just
grat pop songs: these are deep explorations of the materials of music." -
from the Koch release book

Not going gently into that good night (but just as grateful to Mike as
everyone else), I remain,

Yr. pal,
Steve Smith
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 06:21:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Book of Heads?

On Fri, 18 Apr 1997, Herb Levy wrote:

> How about "of all of the sets of exercises to stretch concepts & techniques
> for free improvising performers on various instruments, this is one of the
> most effective."  Is that more clear?

Much.  And I'd agree, at least as far as exercises oriented toward solo
improvisation go.  (However, I've seen very few such sets.  Can anyone
recommend other such exercises?)

     Based on your other comments here, I don't think we have substantive
disagreements about the usefulness of _The Book of Heads_ as an exercise
for guitarists.  I'll just add that, as with many useful
technical exercises, I find it fairly uninteresting to listening to, while
understanding why others would find it interesting.  And on that note,
I'll retire from the argument.

Chris Hamilton

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:02:37 +0200
From: NGUYEN VAN TAN Olivier <[e-mail]>
Subject: The Lion for Real

Hi,

I will become a psycho-killer for this CD :

The Lion for Real (Island)
by Allen Ginsburg.

This CD is sold out in the US and in France : do you know where I can find it ??

I spoke one year ago with Marc Ribot and he said to me it was his favorite CD.
The CD, he kept near his bed and slept with !!!

Someone have it and tell me more about it.


Thanks

Olivier

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:09:03 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Wayne Horvitz answers

    More about Wayne:

On Wed, 2 Apr 1997 01:54:32 -0500 (EST)  [e-mail] wrote:
>
> 1.  Horvitz produced, but didn't play on, the Frisell "country" album.  It's
> just been finished but the release doesn't seem to be set yet.  Horvitz says
> it's "beautiful" and is extremely enthusiastic about it.

Check out the new issue of JAZZIZ with a featured article on Bill Frisell
(what is going on with JAZZIZ; it used to be the most boring magazine in the
business and the magazine keeps on getting better and better for the past
six months; for example, this last issue contains also articles on Bill
Laswell, Wayne Horvitz and Butch Morris! unfortunately, it seems that
the magazine is going too fast for its average subscribers, as illustrated
by the usual best artist poll, where Grover Washington and Kenny G are
still considered the best soprano sax players! is the magazine going for
suicide :-).

> 2.  The Robin Holcomb piece performed at the Walker Arts Center in
> Minneapolis was actually "Angels at the Four Corners."  It was never recorded
> but some of the songs ended up on Holcomb's first Nonesuch album, and one or
> two may have been on the second.  ("Larks, They Crazy" was actually an album
> not a performance piece.  Horvitz says that the LP was pretty hard to find
> and that while he does think that a CD was released then that would be very
> rare.)
>
> 3.  There's a new Pigpen album coming out on Tim/Kerr.  There's also another
> project coming out on Intuition called Four Plus One Ensemble (the name may
> change) that's a full band (with second keyboardist and an on-stage sound
> processor) that apparently works in an avant-ish chamber style.

Also coming out on T/K, a second Boodlers (E#, Fred Chalenor, Henry Franzoni
and Joe Trump).

> 4.  Horvitz says he keeps in touch with Zorn but that they're both so busy
> it's generally through fax and phone messages.  Horvitz is finishing some
> pieces for an album on "Zorn's label" (presumably Tzadik but i forgot to
> ask).

Wayne has a song on the upcoming SERGE GAINSBOURG TRIBUTE. He and Robin
will cover... "Bonny and Clyde"!!!

    Patrice.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 20:10:18 +0200 (METDST)
From: Torsten Nielsen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Derek Bailey with djs

Anybody know who Soul Slinger is? I saw that Derek Bailey will be playing
with him in a few months. I think I read somewhere that he is a jungle dj
or something like that. When "Guitar Drums 'N' Bass" was released I remember
that a lot of people thought Derek's playing was great but the beats were
boring. It would probably be a lot more interesting to hear him play with
a live dj. I know they have played together before so if any of you saw it,
maybe you can tell me if I'm right...?

Jonas

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 12:30:36 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Dave Trenkel)
Subject: Re: Derek Bailey with djs

>Anybody know who Soul Slinger is? I saw that Derek Bailey will be playing
>with him in a few months. I think I read somewhere that he is a jungle dj
>or something like that. When "Guitar Drums 'N' Bass" was released I remember
>that a lot of people thought Derek's playing was great but the beats were
>boring. It would probably be a lot more interesting to hear him play with
>a live dj. I know they have played together before so if any of you saw it,
>maybe you can tell me if I'm right...?
>
>Jonas

DJ Soul Slinger is one of the coolest Drum 'n' Bass artists I've heard,
though his stuff can be pretty hard to find. His cut "Abducted" on DJ
Spookky's Necropolis compilation is absolutely great. The only other thing
I've heard from him is the Jungle Sky 4: Atmospheric Drum 'n' Bass from the
Land of the Free CD, which was compiled by Soul Slinger, and has his
remixes of Ben Neill and Arto Lindsay tunes. This CD, on Liquid Sky, is
really good, IMHO the best jazz/drum 'n' bass fusion disc so far, way
better than the SquarePusher disc. Some of the tunes sound like early
Weather Report, with a really hyperactive drummer...

Anyway, the idea of Soul Slinger collaborating with Bailey is very appealing.

________________________________________________________
Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]
self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/
"A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast
and bulbous, got me?"
                                     -Captain Beefheart
________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 14:49:43 -0500 (CDT)
From: "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Derek Bailey with djs

On Sat, 19 Apr 1997, Torsten Nielsen wrote:

> Anybody know who Soul Slinger is? I saw that Derek Bailey will be playing
> with him in a few months. I think I read somewhere that he is a jungle dj
> or something like that. When "Guitar Drums 'N' Bass" was released I remember
> that a lot of people thought Derek's playing was great but the beats were
> boring. It would probably be a lot more interesting to hear him play with
> a live dj. I know they have played together before so if any of you saw it,
> maybe you can tell me if I'm right...?

DJ SoulSlinger is part of the Koncrete Jungle massive out of NYC.  He has
tracks on various jungle/illbient CDs including, but not limited to,

DJ Spooky - _Necropolis - The Dialogic Project_

VA - _Nirvana - Jungle Sky IV_

VA - _I Love Jungle_

VA - _Red, Hot, and Rio_

and I swear he has some tracks on at least one Laswell related comp,
probably Tetragramatron.

As for who is better, DJ Ninj or DJ SoulSlinger, I couldn't really say.
Ninj does seem to lay down some simplistic sounding drum tracks, but a
Scorn remix that he did rocked hard.  I haven't heard very many complete
tracks from Ninj.  SoulSlinger has a more varied sound, but some of his
material leaves me quite cold.

Out 2 Lunch With Lunchmeat,

Paul
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 21:57:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Buckethead vs Hellborg, Lane & Sipe

I was going to mention this too, and I will definitely be there.  I guess the
secret will be out that Shawn Lane is really Buckethead.  This will be guitar
torture of the utmost intensity.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 22:18:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Intellectual property is theft! II

In a message dated 97-04-12 22:00:58 EDT, [e-mail] (Mason
Wendell) writes:

> Mason
>  ******************************************
>  *           Mason Wendell                *
>  * Prelapse- New Music for Loud Ensemble  *
>  * Specializing in the unrecorded music   *
>  *      of John Zorn's Naked City

Mason,
I have a question for you: You "specialize" in the unrecorded music of Naked
City, and if I assume right, your band Prelapse plays this music.

So how can you play this music if it was never recorded?  If these are just
tunes that Naked City played live, then how is it possible that you can play
them?  Did you attend a lot of Naked City shows, and transcribe the music in
real time?  Or do you have such an incredible musical ear that you could
remember the tunes note for note?

OR, did you manage to get an UNAUTHORIZED recording of these tunes??  Riddle
me this.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 22:24:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Masada live (was:Intellectual property is theft! II_

In a message dated 97-04-12 11:35:25 EDT, [e-mail] (Mason
Wendell) writes:

(regarding the Masada live cd)

> I agree here too. Also, it sounds like even though it may have been
>  recorded with a fine microphone to DAT, that that's all that was
>  done. To my ears, it sounds like only one mic ws used, or perhaps two
>  were used insufficiently.

Just to get persniketty, that recording was not made with microphone(s) in
the audience, but it was professionally recorded, broadcast to FM radio, and
also televised on German TV.  That is the source for that cd.

On another note, I saw Masada a while back, and I was standing next to Bruce
Gallantler and Zorn walked by and said "hey that bootleg sounds pretty good,
I oughta release it myself"... He was joking about it, but he sure didnt
seemed like he felt threatened or was really pissed about the whole thing.
 Take that for what it's worth.

Jody McAllister
IOUaLive1

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 23:23:20 +0000
From: "Mason Wendell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Intellectual property is theft! II

> In a message dated 97-04-12 22:00:58 EDT, [e-mail] (Mason
> Wendell) writes:
>
> > Mason
> >  ******************************************
> >  *           Mason Wendell                *
> >  * Prelapse- New Music for Loud Ensemble  *
> >  * Specializing in the unrecorded music   *
> >  *      of John Zorn's Naked City
>
> Mason,
> I have a question for you: You "specialize" in the unrecorded music of Naked
> City, and if I assume right, your band Prelapse plays this music.
>
> So how can you play this music if it was never recorded?  If these are just
> tunes that Naked City played live, then how is it possible that you can play
> them?  Did you attend a lot of Naked City shows, and transcribe the music in
> real time?  Or do you have such an incredible musical ear that you could
> remember the tunes note for note?
>
> OR, did you manage to get an UNAUTHORIZED recording of these tunes??  Riddle
> me this.
>
>

Prelapse plays from Zorn's original charts. Our CD for him has long
been in the works for Tzadik. We hope to finish it this summer. ;-)

Mason
******************************************
*           Mason Wendell                *
* Prelapse- New Music for Loud Ensemble  *
* Specializing in the unrecorded music   *
*      of John Zorn's Naked City         *
*  Sigmoid Flexure- Loud Free Improv     *
*        Blinder- rock band              *
******************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 23:22:26 +0000
From: "Mason Wendell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Masada live (was:Intellectual property is theft! II_

on 4/19/97 IOUaLive1 wrote:

> On another note, I saw Masada a while back, and I was standing next to Bruce
> Gallantler and Zorn walked by and said "hey that bootleg sounds pretty good,
> I oughta release it myself"... He was joking about it, but he sure didnt
> seemed like he felt threatened or was really pissed about the whole thing.
>  Take that for what it's worth.
>
>It's pretty well known that Bruce and Zorn have a special
arrangement. At least, that's my understanding.

Mason
******************************************
*           Mason Wendell                *
* Prelapse- New Music for Loud Ensemble  *
* Specializing in the unrecorded music   *
*      of John Zorn's Naked City         *
*  Sigmoid Flexure- Loud Free Improv     *
*        Blinder- rock band              *
******************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 00:07:36 -0400
From: Tom Pratt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Redbird

Could anyone here tell me what Redbird is like? I've heard that it is
acoustic but that's about all. I might be interested in this one so...
any thoughts?

            -Tom Pratt

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 21:33:16 -0700
From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Derek Bailey with djs

At 02:49 PM 4/19/97 -0500, [e-mail] wrote:

>
>and I swear he has some tracks on at least one Laswell related comp,
>probably Tetragramatron.

This is correct, except that it is _Tetragramaton_.


Jeff Spirer
Axiom/Material
www.hyperreal.com/axiom/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 00:55:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Peter Cline <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Redbird

On Sun, 20 Apr 1997, Tom Pratt wrote:

> Could anyone here tell me what Redbird is like? I've heard that it is
> acoustic but that's about all. I might be interested in this one so...
> any thoughts?
>
>             -Tom Pratt
>

Redbird is in my opinion, I very minimal piece.  If you don't like
minimalism, this probably is not your cup of tea.  Yet it is a different
kind of minimalism than say that of Philip Glass, or John Adams.  It isn't
nearly as rythmic.  A Lot of sustained tones.  Very mediative almost.  I
personally think it's pretty damn cool.  That's my assessment anyhow.

- -Peter

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 15:14:57 +1000 (EST)
From: James Douglas Knox <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "darling of academia"

Hi,

You'd better believe it! Bar Kokhba got 5 stars in a review in the Sydney
Morning Herald ("a classic"); yesterday's Weekend Australian also gave it
a favourable notice. Can't never remember Zorn getting the least
acknowledgement by this nation's regular (or much of the so-called
'alternative') press any time in the past.

Maybe this is the global paradigm shift we've all been waiting for
(well, maybe not...)

Cheers,

Jim

On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Josh Miller wrote:

> i saw the kronos quartet tonight...it was great but kind of
> disapointing. 9 scheduled pieces, 3 encores, and they still didn't do
> any of the zorn pieces. oh well. they did do cage, harry patch, and ken
> valitsky, among others.
> one interesting thing: john zorn was mentioned in the program as a
> "modern master." the concert was at my university; does this mean zorn
> may yet become a "darling of academia"...?
>
>     josh
>

------------------------------

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