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zorn-list Digest       Thursday, April 17 1997       Volume 02 : Number 076



In this issue:

    Re: Book of Heads? etc.
    meters
    Buckethead vs Hellborg, Lane & Sipe
    Masada dates
    Re:Intellectual property is theft! II
    Re: Masada live
    NEW TRADITIONS IN EAST ASIAN BAR BANDS available?
    Re: Buckethead vs Hellborg, Lane & Sipe
    Re: NEW TRADITIONS IN EAST ASIAN BAR BANDS available?
    Z-Rock Hawaii for trade
    Re: NEW TRADITIONS IN EAST ASIAN BAR BANDS available?
    Re: Bible Launcher
    Re: Bible Launcher
    Re: Bible Launcher
    Jazz show / art opening at ABC NO RIO
    Re: Filmworks 3/Book of Heads?
    Introduction/Soundtrack?
    Re: Introduction/Soundtrack?
    priester/martine
    Re: Filmworks 3/Book of Heads?
    Re: Introduction/Soundtrack?
    Re: NEW TRADITIONS IN EAST ASIAN BAR BANDS available?
    Downtown Music and Zorn style
    Masada in Paris (8 April 97)
    Re: Downtown Music and Zorn style
    Re: Downtown Music and Zorn style
    Re: Downtown Music and Zorn style
    Re: Downtown Music and Zorn style
    Re: Downtown Music and Zorn style
    Re: Filmworks 3/Book of Heads?
    Masada in Karlsruhe review
    Re: Eye
    jon: smoke
    RE: Eye
    Re: Filmworks 3/Book of Heads?
    Re: Eye
    Bible Launcher
    Bible Launcher
    Re: Eye
    CYNICAL HYSTERIE HOUR
    Re: Book of Heads?

See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the zorn-list
or zorn-list-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 00:11:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Book of Heads? etc.

On Sun, 13 Apr 1997, Tom Pratt wrote:

> I'm
> looking at "The Music of Ennio Morricone"

This is one of the best things Zorn's ever done.  Absolutely a must-have.

> and "News For Lulu" (?) to be
> my next Zorn albums to pick up. Any thoughts on these? I'm slowly
> getting more and more zorn.

_News For Lulu_ is also very cool, although not as cool as the above.
Intimate chamber freebop.  Wonderful, rarely heard compositions by
somewhat neglected masters.  (Kenny Dorham's "Lotus Blossom" is a
particular favorite.)  When I first got this one, it seemed pretty
shocking for Zorn to do this, but that was before Masada.  Now it will
probably just strike you as really beautiful music.

>     Also, could someone describe 'Book of Heads' for me. Is it solo guitar
> (Marc Ribot) or what? I'd be interested in hearing it.

It's a series of short solo guitar compositions by Zorn performed by Marc
Ribot.  It sounds very much like the improvised solo playing of guitarists
like Derek Bailey, Fred Frith, and especially Eugene Chadbourne, for whom
the pieces were originally written.  It's certainly an impressive
achievement, both as composition and performance, but I don't find it very
fun to listen to.  Others around here are big fans of it, though.

Chris Hamilton

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:32:17 -0700
From: sean wilkie <[e-mail]>
Subject: meters

following on the zony mash debate: are there any cds by the meters
available? - i think there may be a double cd compilation? also the
drummer is on the new ulmer/worrell/laswell  project "third rail",
- -anybody heard this yet?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:05:06 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Steve Smith)
Subject: Buckethead vs Hellborg, Lane & Sipe

Hey 'listers:

Just to prove I'm willing to plug stuff that ain't at the Knit, here's a
show that should prove of interest to some folks:

Buckethead vs. Hellborg, Lane and Sipe
Wednesday, April 30, 9 pm, $10
Wetlands, 161 Hudson St., New York City, [phone]

I'd advise calling to confirm before making a long trip to see this.
Things are always subject to change...

Is it just me or has the Zornlist been quiet for days at a time lately?

Steve
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 19:22:13 +0200 (MESZ)
From: BJOERN <[e-mail]>
Subject: Masada dates

here are the dates fro masada:
April 14 : Citta di Castello - Italy
      15 : La spezia - Italy
      16 : Karlsruhe - Germany
      17 : Stans - Switzerland
      18 : Lisbon - Portugal
      19 : Oporto - Portugal


BJOERN

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:03:31 +0200 (MET DST)
From: "Geert.Buelens" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:Intellectual property is theft! II

On Fri, 11 Apr 1997, Mason Wendell wrote:

> > what about the live Masada CD released
> > by Jazz Door, a known bootleg company?
> > my understanding is that Zorn gave
> > permission for the disc to be sold.
> >
>
> I'm pretty sure that that CD is unauthorized. I don't know the word
> straight from Zorn, but logic tells me that since he's waited so long
> to release a live CD for himself, that he would want Jazz Door to do
> it first, or that he would give up the control, money, and
> distribution, that releasing it on his own would give him. Also, I
> doubt that he would approve of the liner notes or the photo that Jazz
> Door used. Definitely not up to Zorn's quality standards.
>

I bought the Jazz Door last year, not realising that it wasn't an
official release; anyway, my copy doesn't have liner notes or photo; it
only says 'record live in NYC in...'; and even that seems wrong, judging
from Patrice's discography. Or is he referring to another Masada live?
(and how come Joey Baron isn't on the Jazz Door?)

Geert

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 97 07:41:43 MEZ
From: [e-mail] (Stefan Negele)
Subject: Re: Masada live

> > 1)poor editing between songs
> This is definitely annoying.

> > 2)The Booklet is Lame & inaccurate(in fact, i believe Patrice mentioned
> > this show was from Germany, while the booklet states New York)

we're talking here about a *bootleg* !   the show is from Hamburg 11.12.94

> I agree here too. Also, it sounds like even though it may have been
> recorded with a fine microphone to DAT, that that's all that was

it originally has been aired on German TV. they broadcasted the whole show.

Stefan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:46:06 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: NEW TRADITIONS IN EAST ASIAN BAR BANDS available?

    I asked this question few weeks ago and none of the people who
answered it had the record in their hand.

    Is it still the case? Does anybody succeeded in getting it?

    Patrice.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 16:36:41 -0400
From: Tom Pratt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Buckethead vs Hellborg, Lane & Sipe

This reminded me of a great album Hellborg/Buckethead/Shrieve-Octave of
the Holy Innocents. It's all acoutic and rules beyond belief.

            -Tom Pratt

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 15:48:00 -0500 (CDT)
From: Brian & Sharon Beuchaw <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: NEW TRADITIONS IN EAST ASIAN BAR BANDS available?

On Mon, 14 Apr 1997, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:

>
>     I asked this question few weeks ago and none of the people who
> answered it had the record in their hand.
>
>     Is it still the case? Does anybody succeeded in getting it?
>
>     Patrice.

www.cdnow.com has the release date listed as 4/22/97, so it *might* be out
yet, but their dates are pretty reliable.  Still haven't seen it....  Hope
this helps.

cya
brian

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 16:53:43 -0400
From: "Andy Marks" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Z-Rock Hawaii for trade

I've got an extra copy of the Ween/Eye collaboration
Z-Rock Hawaii (non-enhanced version, unopened).
Anybody want to trade? I've got a lot of Zorn stuff
already. I would be interested some Zorn/Naked City/Mike Patton/
Bungle boots.

- -------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Marks
Software Engineer
MTS-PowerTek, Inc.
- -------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:21:54 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: NEW TRADITIONS IN EAST ASIAN BAR BANDS available?

On Mon, 14 Apr 1997 15:48:00 -0500 (CDT)  Brian & Sharon Beuchaw wrote:
>
> On Mon, 14 Apr 1997, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
> >
> >     I asked this question few weeks ago and none of the people who
> > answered it had the record in their hand.
> >
> >     Is it still the case? Does anybody succeeded in getting it?
> >
> >     Patrice.
>
> www.cdnow.com has the release date listed as 4/22/97, so it *might* be out
> yet, but their dates are pretty reliable.  Still haven't seen it....  Hope
> this helps.

This is the problem: it is announced as available by many mail-order places
but I cannot find any Zorn fan with a copy of it :-).

Even Downtown Music Gallery, in their newsletter one month ago, presented
it as if they had copies of it. But in their last newsletter they say
that it should be out soon...

For the people in the record business, it is out. For the rest of us, it
is impossible to get :-).

I am just curious to see when somebody will post a review/description of
it. Then, I will definitely accept that it is officially out.

    Patrice.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 00:40:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: [e-mail] (m. rizzi)
Subject: Re: Bible Launcher

Scott Chamberlin, demi-God and Icon sez:
>
>Yeah, I think I origionally heard about the rerelease from someone on
>this list, and I ordered it from Blockbuster music in January and got

    Regarding the Bible Launcher CD, if any sees a copy
    for sale, let me know.

    Thanks,
    mike rizzi

- ------------------------------------------------------- [e-mail]
                   "Another nerd with a soulpatch"              -=home=-

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 08:07:55 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bible Launcher

On Tue, 15 Apr 1997 00:40:49 -0700 (PDT)  m. rizzi wrote:
>
> Scott Chamberlin, demi-God and Icon sez:
> >
> >Yeah, I think I origionally heard about the rerelease from someone on
> >this list, and I ordered it from Blockbuster music in January and got
>
>     Regarding the Bible Launcher CD, if any sees a copy
>     for sale, let me know.

You Mike don't have a copy! Were you hibernating ? :-).

    Patrice.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 08:29:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: [e-mail] (m. rizzi)
Subject: Re: Bible Launcher

Patrice L. Roussel, demi-God and Icon sez:
>
>> Scott Chamberlin, demi-God and Icon sez:
>> >
>> >Yeah, I think I origionally heard about the rerelease from someone on
>> >this list, and I ordered it from Blockbuster music in January and got
>>
>>     Regarding the Bible Launcher CD, if any sees a copy
>>     for sale, let me know.
>
>You Mike don't have a copy! Were you hibernating ? :-).

    You are quite correct. I have been wintering
    in the balmy Pacific Northwest city of Seattle.
    While I've enjoyed the rest and relaxation of
    consulting there, my migration back to the
    cold snowy Bay Area has begun...and with it,
    massive amounts of record shopping.

    mike


- ------------------------------------------------------- [e-mail]

       "Why do hibernating bears/go out with migrating birds?"
               - long lost lyric from Great Plains' 'letter to a fanzine'

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:45:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Anthony 'Twizzler' Saunders" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Jazz show / art opening at ABC NO RIO

 Ok, I swear I was going to post about this show before my band actually
was added to the show, but since I'm on the bill, I guess it doesn't hurt
to recommend coming to this.

 Shameless Self Promotion!

 Exercise in Disgust (my noise electronica band) is playing ABC No Rio on
friday, April 18th, along with:

 The incredible punkish jazz of the Dimitri Guerivitch Quintette
 The Boredoms-style maddness of FOMA
 The jazz of Soul Project
 And The Homemade-instrument insanity of Bradford Reed!

 This show is also an Art Opening with some poetry readings. The show
starts at 6pm, and costs $3 (its a benefit for the abc no rio collective).
There will be free food and drink too. It'll be a good time for all.

 abc no rio is located on 156 rivington street, on the lower east side of
New York City. [phone]

 Anthony

"A thing is right if it tends to support the integrity, stability, and
beauty of the biotic community. It is wrong if it tends other wise"
 - Aldo Leopold, The Land Ethic

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:23:51 -0400
From: "ALAN E. KAYSER" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Filmworks 3/Book of Heads?

Tom Pratt wrote:
>
> Hey guys!
>
> I recently picked up Filmworks 3 and find it to be very interesting at
> points and very shitty at others.  I really like the first bit by the
> Thieves Quartet (later turns into Masada) and that thing for the cartoon
> (only because it fits the little pictures of the elephant so well!). I
> like a lot of the Zorn/Ribot duets (especially opening and closing
> themes) The last thing is pretty cool too. I'm not too keen on the pure
> noise "BEWLIFGQLEWCIBSAHVCBSA:IVBVUDVEW!!!" stuff but much of that is
> very neat. I couldn't believe there were 56 songs! unbelievable. I'm
> looking at "The Music of Ennio Morricone" and "News For Lulu" (?) to be
> my next Zorn albums to pick up. Any thoughts on these? I'm slowly
> getting more and more zorn.
>
>         Also, could someone describe 'Book of Heads' for me. Is it solo guitar
> (Marc Ribot) or what? I'd be interested in hearing it.
>
>                         -Tom Pratt
Tom
The two Lulu Cds are both quite good, but unlike most Zorn.  George
Lewis is a terrific trombone player.  He's done some excellent stuff
with Anthony Braxton, mostly in the 70s.  Frisell serves as the rhythm
section.  I think the second Lulu is just a repeat of the first, but
would be hard pressed to pick the better one.  For pure Zorn alto, only
Masada offers more.
The Morricone is outstanding.  I think among the Zorn projects it may be
the best.  It was given a special ranking by no less an authority than
the Penguin Guide to Jazz.  They don't do that very often.  It's a
really fun project, too.  The adjective fun is not one easily applied to
Zorn, but can be used here.  It's also got just about every NY name on
it, at least among the younger guys.
You might want to consider the Sonny Clark Memorial "Voodoo" CD.  It's
quite good, featuring Zorn, Horvitz, and Bobby Previte.  They do all
Sonny Clark tunes, much in the same style as Lulu.  However, it's much
more straight jazz, perhaps as straight as Zorn has ever played.  If you
can find it, it's well worth the visit.
I had the Book of Heads, which I thought was awful.  I think Ribot is an
excellent guitarist, the stink wasn't his fault.  I just thought it was
all kitsch, style with no substance.
Alan E Kayser

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:18:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Introduction/Soundtrack?

  Let me begin by introducing myself the names Joe Sicari aka Joe Sick.  I'm
quite the  youngblood when it comes to being a Zorn, Laswell etc. fan.  So
please bare with me if I seem to ask obvious qustions.
  The first one being this. A few years back I caught a interview that Zorn
did on a college radio station that night he played tracks from the
soundtrack to the film Looters later to be retitled Trespass.  When the film
came out I went looking for the soundtrack and found that now Ry Cooder was
the preformer.  Does anyone know the story behind this and was the music ever
released in some other format?  Thanks!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 05:21:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Introduction/Soundtrack?

In a message dated 97-04-15 21:24:21 EDT, [e-mail] writes:

<< film Looters later to be retitled Trespass >>


For what it's worth, the title was changed so that the film wouldn't seem to
be cashing in on the LA riots.

Lang Thompson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 10:49:44 GMT0BST
From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject: priester/martine

Priester (tbn.) and Tucker Martine (electronics) from the Horvitz
ensemble have a cd out this month with Sam Rivers called "Hints on
light and shade"  (Postcards -?-).

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 08:16:49 -0400
From: "Andy Marks" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Filmworks 3/Book of Heads?

> I had the Book of Heads, which I thought was awful.  I think Ribot is an
> excellent guitarist, the stink wasn't his fault.  I just thought it was
> all kitsch, style with no substance.
I would second this. Book of Heads ranks as my worst
Zorn album. From the music itself to the mutually masturbatory
liner notes by Zorn and Ribot, I could have done without this one.
Including transcriptions for all the tracks (as opposed to only a couple)
might have redeemed it some, as that seemed to be the
whole point of the album. Zorn composes for improvised, free guitar.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 08:25:11 -0400
From: "Andy Marks" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Introduction/Soundtrack?

>  Does anyone know the story behind this and was the music ever
> released in some other format?  Thanks!
I think this was released as "Filmworks II: Music for an untitled film by
Walter Hill".  It was released on Toys Factory in Japan and then
re-released on Tzadik last year. I own the japanese version. Maybe
 the liner notes for the Tzadik release have more info.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 08:41:11 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: NEW TRADITIONS IN EAST ASIAN BAR BANDS available?

    Correction...

On Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:21:54 -0700  "Patrice L. Roussel" wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, 14 Apr 1997 15:48:00 -0500 (CDT)  Brian & Sharon Beuchaw wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 14 Apr 1997, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >     I asked this question few weeks ago and none of the people who
> > > answered it had the record in their hand.
> > >
> > >     Is it still the case? Does anybody succeeded in getting it?
> > >
> > >     Patrice.
> >
> > www.cdnow.com has the release date listed as 4/22/97, so it *might* be out
> > yet, but their dates are pretty reliable.  Still haven't seen it....  Hope
> > this helps.
>
> This is the problem: it is announced as available by many mail-order places
> but I cannot find any Zorn fan with a copy of it :-).
>
> Even Downtown Music Gallery, in their newsletter one month ago, presented
> it as if they had copies of it. But in their last newsletter they say
> that it should be out soon...

I rechecked Downtown Music Gallery's newsletter and no, they never said that
they had it. If I had read it carefully, I would have noticed that they
explicitely mentioned April 22 for availalability.

DMG does a great job at keeping us aware of what is going on and I wanted
to correct what I said.

    Patrice.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 16:22:02 +0200
From: NGUYEN VAN TAN Olivier <[e-mail]>
Subject: Downtown Music and Zorn style

Hi Guys,

I 've just read in a French jazz magazine a review about New York jazz.
(Patrice, you know it : Jazz Mag)

They call the Knitting Factory jazz style and all Zorn stuff, Diamanda Galas
or events at The Cooler : Downtown Music. (DM)

What do you think about this name ?

For me (sorry, I am just 23), Downtown Music is just a reference to my favorite
NYC disk shop in the east village : DMG (Downtown Music Gallery) and my friend
Bruce who is my personal encyclopeadia when I go to NYC.

Is DM a more global term ?
What does it mean from a more cultural point of view ?

Because I think that this name is just a built name by the French writer
who is not a big "Zorn" fan... ?? And he mixed the name with the Knitting
Factory festival of DMG in January or February...


Bring me light ...


Olivier


NB for fun :
I often heard the names : post-jazz, free jazz, avant-guarde jazz or even ...
New York post-punk free jazz  in France !!!!!!!!!!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 23:47:36 +0200
From: NGUYEN VAN TAN Olivier <[e-mail]>
Subject: Masada in Paris (8 April 97)

Hi,

Masada played at "le hot brass" in Paris.

Before the show, I was still pissed off by the previous "Tzadik festival" and its unfamous
Elegy video composition by Zorn...

Nevertheless, this gig with the classical Masada members was GREAT !!
This time, Zorn played and he was really good : at Bar Kok Ba, his unique
solo was such a shame !!

Cohen and Douglas were also great and they had a lot of fun !

But, -as usual- Joey Baron was the BEST and stole the show : he was
prodigious and amazing behind his drums...

He said to me that he was in a lot of group project at this time and he has
no time for a solo project...
He teach me how to do this "wet finger" on drums : first, you hit then you
"wet finger" the drums from round to center !! It was so fun to learn this
stuff !!!


Olivier

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 12:39:50 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Downtown Music and Zorn style

On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 16:22:02 +0200  NGUYEN VAN TAN Olivier wrote:
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> I 've just read in a French jazz magazine a review about New York jazz.
> (Patrice, you know it : Jazz Mag)
>
> They call the Knitting Factory jazz style and all Zorn stuff, Diamanda Galas
> or events at The Cooler : Downtown Music. (DM)
>
> What do you think about this name ?

To tell you the truth, I don't know that somebody could even think of using
a different name :-).

Music in NY has always used this kind of "geographic" indicators.

Calling this scene "Downtown scene" has been around for at least 15 years.

> For me (sorry, I am just 23), Downtown Music is just a reference to my favorite
> NYC disk shop in the east village : DMG (Downtown Music Gallery) and my friend
> Bruce who is my personal encyclopeadia when I go to NYC.
>
> Is DM a more global term ?
> What does it mean from a more cultural point of view ?

It just means that the music is mainly done from artists living/playing in the
South part of Manhattan.

> Because I think that this name is just a built name by the French writer
> who is not a big "Zorn" fan... ?? And he mixed the name with the Knitting
> Factory festival of DMG in January or February...

Not at all.

> Bring me light ...

I hope I did :-).

> NB for fun :
> I often heard the names : post-jazz, free jazz, avant-guarde jazz or even ...
> New York post-punk free jazz  in France !!!!!!!!!!

My favorite stupid name is "Avant garage".

    Patrice.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 12:59:28 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Herb Levy)
Subject: Re: Downtown Music and Zorn style

Now that I'm done doing other people's taxes I can take up space on your
computers again.

Downtown versus uptown when used to describe art of various types, comes
from the cultural geography of New York City.  The term first came up in
the 70s, I think (at any rate, long before the Downtown Music Gallery or
the Knit) when most of the conservative styles of new music, dance,
theater, etc showed up at Lincoln Center, Symphony Space and other venues
(substantially) north of the Village, and solo composer/performers, improv,
minimalism, etc. & the choreographic, theatric, etc. equivalents, were
being presented at loft spaces, both commerical & non-commercial, in
GreenwichVillage (East & West), Soho, etc.

For an often useful look at the early days of non-conservative new music in
New York, you could do far worse than read Tom Johnson's The Voice of New
Music, a compilation of reviews and columns published in the Village Voice
from about the mid-70s to the early 80s.  It's published by Apollohuis in
Eindhoven, The Netherlands.  There's not much in it about improvised music,
let alone Zorn (though there is a very good piece on Evan Parker), but it's
better than anything else you can find without searching through a lot of
ephemeral publications that are, at this point, barely available in the
States let alone France.

Bests,

Herb



>Hi Guys,
>
>I 've just read in a French jazz magazine a review about New York jazz.
>(Patrice, you know it : Jazz Mag)
>
>They call the Knitting Factory jazz style and all Zorn stuff, Diamanda Galas
>or events at The Cooler : Downtown Music. (DM)
>
>What do you think about this name ?
>
>For me (sorry, I am just 23), Downtown Music is just a reference to my favorite
>NYC disk shop in the east village : DMG (Downtown Music Gallery) and my friend
>Bruce who is my personal encyclopeadia when I go to NYC.
>
>Is DM a more global term ?
>What does it mean from a more cultural point of view ?
>
>Because I think that this name is just a built name by the French writer
>who is not a big "Zorn" fan... ?? And he mixed the name with the Knitting
>Factory festival of DMG in January or February...
>
>
>Bring me light ...
>
>
>Olivier
>
>
>NB for fun :
>I often heard the names : post-jazz, free jazz, avant-guarde jazz or even ...
>New York post-punk free jazz  in France !!!!!!!!!!


Herb Levy
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:04:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Peter Cline <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Downtown Music and Zorn style

On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:

>
> > They call the Knitting Factory jazz style and all Zorn stuff, Diamanda Galas
> > or events at The Cooler : Downtown Music. (DM)
> >
> > Is DM a more global term ?
> > What does it mean from a more cultural point of view ?

I have heard the term downtown used in reference to Zorn and company on
many occassions.  As far as what it means from a cultural point view, I'd
say probably absolutely nothing.  More likely it just refers to the fact
that many of these musicians live and work in downtown manhattan

> My favorite stupid name is "Avant garage". >
>     Patrice.
>

On the wall of the men's bathroom at the Knit there was once the term
"stupo-jazz" written.  I think this is indeed my favorite term to describe
my own music, and perhaps that of some of the people who are frequently
the topic of conversation here.  So, if we must label the stuff, I suggest
"Stupo-Jazz"

- -peter

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 14:17:27 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Downtown Music and Zorn style

On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:04:09 -0400 (EDT)  Peter Cline wrote:
>
> On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
> >
> > > They call the Knitting Factory jazz style and all Zorn stuff, Diamanda Galas
> > > or events at The Cooler : Downtown Music. (DM)
> > >
> > > Is DM a more global term ?
> > > What does it mean from a more cultural point of view ?
>
> I have heard the term downtown used in reference to Zorn and company on
> many occassions.  As far as what it means from a cultural point view, I'd
> say probably absolutely nothing.  More likely it just refers to the fact
> that many of these musicians live and work in downtown manhattan
>
> > My favorite stupid name is "Avant garage". >
> >     Patrice.

Oups! I was not trying to say that "Avant garage" was used to qualify the
style of music treated on this list.

But I thought that "Avant garage" was a fairly silly expression, maybe
mainly because it sounds silly in French :-).

    Patrice.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 16:18:45 -0500 (CDT)
From: Brian & Sharon Beuchaw <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Downtown Music and Zorn style

On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:

> On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 16:22:02 +0200  NGUYEN VAN TAN Olivier wrote:
>
> > NB for fun :
> > I often heard the names : post-jazz, free jazz, avant-guarde jazz or even ...
> > New York post-punk free jazz  in France !!!!!!!!!!
>
> My favorite stupid name is "Avant garage".
>
>     Patrice.

But I thought this was what Pere Ubu's music was called!!!! :-)

cya
brian

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:17:31 -0600
From: Cheepnis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Filmworks 3/Book of Heads?

>> I had the Book of Heads, which I thought was awful.  I think Ribot is an
>> excellent guitarist, the stink wasn't his fault.  I just thought it was
>> all kitsch, style with no substance.
>I would second this. Book of Heads ranks as my worst
>Zorn album. From the music itself to the mutually masturbatory
>liner notes by Zorn and Ribot, I could have done without this one.
>Including transcriptions for all the tracks (as opposed to only a couple)
>might have redeemed it some, as that seemed to be the
>whole point of the album. Zorn composes for improvised, free guitar.

FWIW, I emphatically disagree with both of you!  It's one of my favorite
albums from both Ribot and Zorn.  To each his own, I suppose.

I find it very inspirational, humorous, and very enjoyable to listen to.
No, it isn't free guitar, but it's composed in a very playful Zorn manner
and gives great inspiration to improvisational ideas.

Like the liner notes say, it caused Marc Ribot to hear the guitar in a
completely different way.  I'd have to say that it did the same for me as
well.


Cheers,


Brady







/---------------------------------------\
| Brady Sharp                           |
| [e-mail]                     |
|                                       |
| See Voight-Kampff - Free Improv       |
|           pleasures for You and Yours!|
| http://www.mtsu.edu/~bdsharpl/vk.html |
\---------------------------------------/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 13:03:49 +0200 (MESZ)
From: BJOERN <[e-mail]>
Subject: Masada in Karlsruhe review

Ok we came to Karlsruhe and when we arrived someone told us that Zorn
isnt there yet...the concert should begin at 8:30 pm.
at 9 pm someone told the audience that Zorn had had an accident on the
highway and that they would come later...
they started at 9:30 pm and it was amazing.....
i think some of zorn`s solos were poor but dave douglas and greg cohen
were great and i have to agree with the paris review:
joey baron was the best....
they played for about two hours.,..
fred frith was in the audience and they dedicated two pieces to him...
BJOERN

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 97 12:29:49 +0100
From: simon lucas <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Eye

>I picked up some remixes that he has done of other people's techno type
>material.  He created noisy chill out remixes and choppy jungle remixes
can you tell me more about these remixes you bought?.

eye also has a newish group called puzzle punks with a graphic designer.
they  record and exhibit.  2 CD's out and a new one this April we hear.
the CD i have is on public bath: "budub'.

check out the recent edition of Idea  graphics magazine which does a
Tokyo special and also includes work by the man behind Violent Onsen
Geisha. Nice graphics.

simon

school of information systems
kingston university
0181 547 2000 x2680
home: 0181 892 3848

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 97 12:34:24 +0100
From: simon lucas <[e-mail]>
Subject: jon: smoke

I bought a  CD 'smoke'  the other day by JON. iT's in the new japan
series on tzadik and is onstensibly by a boy called jon singing and
playing the organ. I quote 'songs about a dog' From his voice he sounds
as if he's about 9 or 10 years old. sings in japanese. Does anyone know
anything more about this? odd.

school of information systems
kingston university
0181 547 2000 x2680
home: 0181 892 3848

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 06:54:54 -0700
From: Mike Rizzi <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Eye

>>I picked up some remixes that he has done of other people's techno type
>>material.  He created noisy chill out remixes and choppy jungle remixes
>can you tell me more about these remixes you bought?.

>eye also has a newish group called puzzle punks with a graphic designer.
>they  record and exhibit.  2 CD's out and a new one this April we hear.
>the CD i have is on public bath: "budub'.

Is that different than the Japanese release of that album on Time Bomb?

mike

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 07:18:25 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Herb Levy)
Subject: Re: Filmworks 3/Book of Heads?

>> I had the Book of Heads, which I thought was awful.  I think Ribot is an
>> excellent guitarist, the stink wasn't his fault.  I just thought it was
>> all kitsch, style with no substance.
>I would second this. Book of Heads ranks as my worst
>Zorn album. From the music itself to the mutually masturbatory
>liner notes by Zorn and Ribot, I could have done without this one.
>Including transcriptions for all the tracks (as opposed to only a couple)
>might have redeemed it some, as that seemed to be the
>whole point of the album. Zorn composes for improvised, free guitar.

Maybe when you listen to free improv you'd rather here mindless noodling
and rambling jamming, but I'd rather a free improviser knew how to interupt
their own habits (& those of others).  &, if nothing else, Book of Heads is
a very effective set of etudes to acquaint a free improvising guitarist
with a wider range of techniques than might otherwise come to mind, to
provide more options of how to not fall into stylistic ruts, through
unnatural juxtapositions, and making other non-idiomatic demands on a
player.  Like any other kind of music, free improvising doesn't just "come
naturally", and these are some of the best conceptual workouts for a free
improvisor of any instrument.

I'll grant you it may not be the easiest of Zorn's music to listen to, &
taste is really the issue here, but if you find Book of Heads to be of so
little use, how do you respond to other Zorn works from the same period,
say, Complete Guide to Strategy (while not notated even as loosely as the
Heads are, in many ways these are a similar series of pieces for
saxophone), or the duos with Eugene Chadbourne recently released on Incus?

Book of Heads is also indicative of a kind of composition developing within
the free improvising downtown NY scene of fifteen years ago and is an
important precursor of Zorn's game pieces.

Like I wrote above, there's no getting around taste, but I'd sure rather
hear this than any of the sophomoric stuff on the "first recordings" CD.



Herb Levy
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:48:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Eye

On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, simon lucas wrote:

> eye also has a newish group called puzzle punks with a graphic designer.

Shinro Ohtake.

Ohtake also has/had his own "band" called
either Juke or 9 - i still can't quite
figure out which. according to the
liner notes, this band is what first
influenced Eye to start up Boredoms.
Time Bomb recently "re-issued" about 8
of these Juke/9 albums. i put that
in quotes because the whole thing is
very curious. not to mention, the
Puzzle Punks "Budub" LP says 1985
as the copyright date and i'm pretty
sure it should be 1996 instead. creative
revising of music history, perhaps?

hasta.

Yes.  Beautiful, wonderful nature.  Hear it sing to us: *snap*  Yes.  natURE.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 14:09:12 -0400
From: "Andy Marks" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Bible Launcher

Whoever wanted the copy of Bible Launcher,
I picked up an extra one yesterday at a Borders
near me. That is also where I got my first copy.
If you can't find one let me know. I would be willing
to trade for something. Don't offer me money though, I
have enough of that already    :)

- -------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Marks
Software Engineer
MTS-PowerTek, Inc.
- -------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 14:20:13 -0400
From: "Andy Marks" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Bible Launcher

Whoever wanted the copy of Bible Launcher,
I picked up an extra one yesterday at a Borders
near me. That is also where I got my first copy.
If you can't find one let me know. I would be willing
to trade for something. Don't offer me money though, I
have enough of that already    :)

- -------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Marks
Software Engineer
MTS-PowerTek, Inc.
- -------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:26:19 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: Re: Eye

>Ohtake also has/had his own "band" called
>either Juke or 9 - i still can't quite
>figure out which.

I believe that the band is called 19, which is pronounced "juke"
in Japanese, hence the labelling 19/Juke.  Forced Exposure, among
other joints, carries these reissues and the 5CD box set.  For those
interested, they have some info at their website [www.fe.org] ...
just look up the Time Bomb label.

>according to the
>liner notes, this band is what first
>influenced Eye to start up Boredoms.
>Time Bomb recently "re-issued" about 8
>of these Juke/9 albums. i put that
>in quotes because the whole thing is
>very curious. not to mention, the
>Puzzle Punks "Budub" LP says 1985
>as the copyright date and i'm pretty
>sure it should be 1996 instead. creative
>revising of music history, perhaps?


- -Patrick

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:21:28 +0200 (MESZ)
From: BJOERN <[e-mail]>
Subject: CYNICAL HYSTERIE HOUR

i know that this has already been the topic some time ago, sorry i missed
that........
is it available somewhere and if not could someone send me a copy on tape???
BJOERN
PS: sure i have stuff to trade

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:11:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Book of Heads?

On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Herb Levy wrote:

> Maybe when you listen to free improv you'd rather here mindless noodling
> and rambling jamming, but I'd rather a free improviser knew how to interupt
> their own habits (& those of others).  &, if nothing else, Book of Heads is
> a very effective set of etudes to acquaint a free improvising guitarist
> with a wider range of techniques than might otherwise come to mind, to
> provide more options of how to not fall into stylistic ruts, through
> unnatural juxtapositions, and making other non-idiomatic demands on a
> player.  Like any other kind of music, free improvising doesn't just "come
> naturally", and these are some of the best conceptual workouts for a free
> improvisor of any instrument.

I'm not sure I understand this last sentence.  I've only seen the bits of
the score excerpted in the liner notes, but the techniques called for seem
pretty specific to the guitar.  How would, say, a trombonist make use of
these?  (Aside from studying their general structure.)
     I also worry that the principal effect these pieces would have on any
instrumentalist would be to encourage the kind of jump-cutting
postmodernism Zorn has often favored.  While this approach has been used
well by Zorn and others, it seems to turn to cliche as readily as other
structural techniques, if not more so.

> I'll grant you it may not be the easiest of Zorn's music to listen to, &
> taste is really the issue here, but if you find Book of Heads to be of so
> little use, how do you respond to other Zorn works from the same period,
> say, Complete Guide to Strategy (while not notated even as loosely as the
> Heads are, in many ways these are a similar series of pieces for
> saxophone), or the duos with Eugene Chadbourne recently released on Incus?

Again, the notation reprinted in the liners doesn't seem very loose at
all.  Personally, I enjoy _The Book of Heads_ considerably less than the
other records you mention, but I'm not entirely sure why.  I just don't
get the feeling of risk from it that I do with the Improv I most like.
It's tempting to say this is because Ribot's only playing what the
composer already knew, but I enjoy this particular composer's
improvisations and compositions a great deal most of the time.  This disc
just sounds like what I'd expect guitar etudes written by John Zorn to
sound like, and I'm more impressed by Zorn when he's challenging my
expectations.

> Book of Heads is also indicative of a kind of composition developing within
> the free improvising downtown NY scene of fifteen years ago and is an
> important precursor of Zorn's game pieces.

I can't comment on other approaches to composition developing in that time
and scene, but _The Book of Heads_ just seems regressive compared to
the game pieces.  The game pieces work by giving a structure to
improvisation while leaving the content up to the improvisors.  _The Book
of Heads_ seems to be an attempt to notate along traditional lines the
kinds of extended technique and structuring principles used by a few free
improvisors, and especially Chadbourne.  The game pieces leave a lot of
room for improvisation, while _The Book of Heads_ seems to leave almost
none.

Chris Hamilton

------------------------------

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