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1997-03-11
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From: zorn-list-owner@xmission.com
To: zorn-list-digest@xmission.com
Subject: zorn-list Digest V2 #68
Reply-To: zorn-list@xmission.com
Errors-To: zorn-list-owner@xmission.com
Precedence:
zorn-list Digest Wednesday, 12 March 1997 Volume 02 : Number 068
In this issue:
Re: New Fred Frith Album on Tzadik ?
[none]
Wayne Horvitz & Zony Mash
Re: New Fred Frith Album on Tzadik ?
Re: Wayne Horvitz & Zony Mash
Re: Otomo (was Burroughs)
Re: Mixing It
Re: Mixing It
Re: hobah/Leng T'che
Re: Cartoon Music
Re: cynical hysterie hour
Re: chance vs. indeterminacy
Joey Baron & " Jazz Snob Eat Shit " (Naked City)
Tzadik Festival (first day)
Re:
Bacharach box set
Re: Bacharach box set
Re: Joey Baron & " Jazz Snob Eat Shit " (Naked City)
Re: New Fred Frith Album on Tzadik ?
See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the zorn-list
or zorn-list-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: silver whale <tkorpipa@siba.fi>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 14:22:39 +0200 (GMT+0200)
Subject: Re: New Fred Frith Album on Tzadik ?
On Tue, 11 Mar 1997, David FENECH wrote:
> I heard about a new Fred Frith album coming out on the Tzadik label. Do you
> have some news about it ?
> When is it out ? What material ? I confess , Fred is one of my TOP 10
> artists ...
Sounds great. Howz about some bizarre pop (again) this time, Fred?
...as Cheap At Half The Price is one of my Top 10 albums... not that I
don't like his other stuff as well...
teemu
OnNow: (nothin')
._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._.
/ e-mail: tkorpipa@siba.fi "Everyone has a little secret he keeps, I
. I light the fires then the city sleeps..." .
I Ruumen: - MC 900ft Jesus - I
. http://www.siba.fi/~tkorpipa/ruumen.html .
_._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._./
------------------------------
From: dennis summers <denniss@srv2.ic.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 08:02:19 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [none]
Hi folks, let me dive into some recent conversation regarding Zorn and
Burroughs, etc. The thing about Burroughs that I think he or Brion Gyson
(the guy who actually invented "cut-up" and who Burroughs always gave credit
to) has said is that the cut-up method is a profoundly scary thing to do
(especially in the days before copy machines, and computers). One takes
their manuscript (which may be the only copy) and literally cut it up
vertically and horizontally, through it up in the air and recombine it.
Doing this in some ways is harder than a Cagean chance operation, in that
_after_ one has invested their ego in the creation of a work, one has to let
it all go, in an act which certainly appears to be destructive. Even the
visual artists who may have influenced this approach rarely gave up control
in such a complete manner. The point I'm going to with all this is that
although Zorn's music certainly mimics the form of a cut-up, I'd be very
surprised if it was created the same way. Issues of intentionality and
awareness of context aside, I think that this is a pretty significant
difference.
Regarding Zorn's work and it's connection to earlier movements like Dada, I
may be sharing information that has already been discussed here, but the
title Locus Solus comes from a play written by Raymond Roussel. Roussel was
a French wacked out writer who was a major influence on the Dada movement
and Marcel Duchamp.
Getting back to Zorn's influences vis-a-vis Burroughs, I'm surprised that no
one has yet mentioned the well documented interest Zorn has in cartoon
music. Frankly cartoon music does the exact quick style shifting that Zorn's
work is known for.
On to other stuff. This past Friday I saw Tim Berne's Bloodcount at the
Kerrytown Concert House (an actual house) in Ann Arbor. They played two sets
of 4 pieces each. Each piece was roughly 10 - 15 minutes I believe. Most
were in that typical Colemanesque form of stating the melody, going off into
the ether for a while and then returning to the melody. I'd have to say that
although all were fantastic, Jim Black on percussion wins for being the most
enjoyable to watch and try to predict what he would do next. The venue
itself was a great intimate place with surprisingly good sound. I have to
admit that my attention flagged a bit during the second set, owing more to
the demands their music makes than any weakness on their part. I brought
along a friend who had never heard them, is now a convert, and picked up the
3 disc set available through the mail mentioned in this group. I picked up a
disc by Formanek (Nature of the Beast), and a disc by Speed, Black and
others (title I beleive is Speak To It, band name I believe is Human Feel).
Both of which come strongly recommended, the Formanek disc is somewhat more
melodic than the Bloodcount stuff.
yours is Zornocity --ds
***Quantum Dance Works***
****http://ic.net/~denniss****
------------------------------
From: "James L. Kirchmer" <jamesk@jamesk.seanet.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 02:32:46 -0800
Subject: Wayne Horvitz & Zony Mash
Hello there -
just droppin' a note to say that Zony Mash's debut album,
titled "Cold Spell", is out and it's HOT! (on knitting factory records).
Wayne is on Hammond B3, Fred Chalenor is on bass, Tim Young on guitar,
and Andy Roth on drums. Tim Young is a great talent - and appears
on Eyvind Kang's Tzadik debut album as well. He will soon release his
debut album as a leader on Endless Records. This promises to be quite
an eclectic affair. More on this later. Anyways, Andy Roth is a tasty
drummer that has worked with Wayne and his acoustic jazz groups.
Fred Chalenor(Pigpen/Hughscore/Freestyle Candela/etc.) is Seattle's
secret bass weapon. WATCH OUT for him as Zony Mash tours the country in
April.(see knittingfactory.com for tourdates) They are also at SXSW
(this may have already happened) in Austin, TX.
Anyways, the music manages to lean forward and look back at the same
time, as the original compositions presented by Wayne on this Zony Mash
debut have just the right hint of a late '60's funk/blues/improv
influence.
Wayne gives the funk a bit of a scientific treatment as well.
I suppose "avant-funk improv" might be a good label, but I hate labels.
Listen for yourself, as this is one FRESH record. Sit back and be hep.
As Duke Ellington once said, "there's good music and then there's bad
music..." Well, this CD happens to be %100 "good". Dig it.......
Peace, James Kirchmer
------------------------------
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 08:23:55 -0800
Subject: Re: New Fred Frith Album on Tzadik ?
On Tue, 11 Mar 97 11:12:58 +0100 David FENECH wrote:
>
> Hello all.
>
> I heard about a new Fred Frith album coming out on the Tzadik label. Do you have some news about it ?
> When is it out ? What material ? I confess , Fred is one of my TOP 10 artists ...
>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
209 - EYE TO EAR: Fred Frith
1/ Le Rencontre (Title Theme) (Frith) 4:11
2/ Backroom (Frith) 3:22
3/ Thea und Nat (Frith) 12:22
I/ Welcome Home
II/ Suspicion Theme (for Bernard Herrmann)
III/ Thea's Theme
IV/ Suspicion Theme II
V/ Not Drwoning But Waving
4/ Backroom II (Frith) 5:30
5/ Picture of Light (Frith) 9:47
6/ Ostkreuz (Frith) 6:00
I/ Frozen Landscape
II/ Dragging Half A Pig
III/ Driving To Grandma's
IV/ In The Abandoned Building
7/ Before Sunrise - In The Train (Frith) 2:47
8/ Backroom III (Frith) 8:07
9/ Le Rencontre (Reprise) (Frith) 3:36
(1,3,6,9) recorded at Sound Fabrik, Munich, Germany
(2,4,5,8) recorded at Mobius Studio, San Francisco
(7) recorded at Jankowski Studio, Stuttgart, Germany
Michaela Dietl (3,6): accordion; Tilman Mueller (3,6): trumpet; Christian
Kaya (3): clarinet; Boris Denker (1,9): tenor; Willy Webster (2,4,8): organ;
Fred Frith: all other instruments and manipulations.
1997 - Tzadik (USA), TZ 7503 (CD)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seems to be out.
Patrice.
------------------------------
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 08:52:14 -0800
Subject: Re: Wayne Horvitz & Zony Mash
On Tue, 11 Mar 1997 02:32:46 -0800 "James L. Kirchmer" wrote:
>
> just droppin' a note to say that Zony Mash's debut album,
> titled "Cold Spell", is out and it's HOT! (on knitting factory records).
> Wayne is on Hammond B3, Fred Chalenor is on bass, Tim Young on guitar,
> and Andy Roth on drums. Tim Young is a great talent - and appears
> on Eyvind Kang's Tzadik debut album as well. He will soon release his
> debut album as a leader on Endless Records. This promises to be quite
> an eclectic affair. More on this later. Anyways, Andy Roth is a tasty
> drummer that has worked with Wayne and his acoustic jazz groups.
> Fred Chalenor(Pigpen/Hughscore/Freestyle Candela/etc.) is Seattle's
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Is it one of his Seattle's project? I never heard about this band before.
> secret bass weapon. WATCH OUT for him as Zony Mash tours the country in
> April.(see knittingfactory.com for tourdates) They are also at SXSW
> (this may have already happened) in Austin, TX.
>
> Anyways, the music manages to lean forward and look back at the same
> time, as the original compositions presented by Wayne on this Zony Mash
> debut have just the right hint of a late '60's funk/blues/improv
> influence.
> Wayne gives the funk a bit of a scientific treatment as well.
> I suppose "avant-funk improv" might be a good label, but I hate labels.
>
> Listen for yourself, as this is one FRESH record. Sit back and be hep.
> As Duke Ellington once said, "there's good music and then there's bad
> music..." Well, this CD happens to be %100 "good". Dig it.......
What can I add? I completely agree with James. Groovy and tasty!
Patrice.
------------------------------
From: simon lucas <simon@isys.king.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 97 17:07:48 +0100
Subject: Re: Otomo (was Burroughs)
> It seems to me that Otomo is more
>'Burroughsian' than these in that his collages are live and improvised
>as opposed to constructed. He really allows for chance to bring
>together disparate elements. Where other, more 'produced' artists
>create soundscapes for you to explore, Otomo's sounds explode at you
>without much in the way of predetermined logic (I presume he has to
>decide which discs to take with him, but beyond that...).
Whilst I agree that indeterminancy plays a part in all art, this lack of
predetermined logic in Otomo's work is an interesting notion. It may
sound that way and is probably a real element, but I wonder if there's
more to it than that.
1. As you say, he must select records and choose which ones he plays in
advance , but also, maybe he knows which sections will work within a
given context from experience.
2. You only have to listen to his recent works to realise that Otomo is a
sampler-composer par excellence. Unlike many sampler/improvisors
he, it seems to me, knows how to create soundscapes out of his raw
materials which in some sense 'work' as composition: specifically as a
narrative. Don't ask me to justify this statement: I don't know how, just
yet. It's what I feel from listening to his work (as opposed to some
more aleatoric uses of this medium, which I could mention).
Personally, I want to understand how he achieves this.
Who else is tackling the problem of meaning and context using the
sample?
What do others think about random vs. composed sample-based music?
simon lucas
school of information systems
kingston university
0181 547 2000 x2680
home: 0181 892 3848
------------------------------
From: demery@natlab.research.philips.com
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 17:26:37 GMT
Subject: Re: Mixing It
Scott Russell <srussell@cims.co.uk> wrote:
> Subject: Mixing It
>
> [snip] Also interviewed Ekki Sven Tur, who composes in a variety of styles
> at once, very interesting.
I'm sure you mean Erkki-Sven Tuur (where both u's have umlauts). His most
recent recordings are Crystallisatio on ECM New Series and Architectonics
on Finlandia.
Dem (just getting up to date with the last 20 digests!)
------------------------------
From: Philip Reno <nv102@york.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 17:30:34 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Re: Mixing It
> played some tracks from 'State of the Nation' which were excellent,
I just saw State of the Union in my local retailer today (Depth Charge,
York) so I guess it is available in the UK. At a fairly good price too(for
a double CD).
------------------------------
From: demery@natlab.research.philips.com
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 17:35:34 GMT
Subject: Re: hobah/Leng T'che
More than a month ago Scott Russell <srussell@cims.co.uk> wrote:
> Subject: Re: hobah/Leng T'che
>
> > A while ago the thought struck me that one could compose a song that
> > consisted entirely of different endings.
>
> Isn't this what Neil Young did with Arc-Weld?
Only with Arc, not with Weld.
> I haven't heard it, unfortunately,
It's wicked stuff.
> but the extra disc which came with the initial release
Arc can also be bought separately.
> of the Weld live album apparently contained a 25 minute collage of
> feedback endings from live performances. This sounds very like your
> idea.
It's exactly 35 minutes long, and is mostly made up of the feedback sections
from Like A Hurricane and Love And Only Love. Sounds a bit like what John
Oswald did with Dark Star.
Dem (finally up to date, again!)
------------------------------
From: andy.marks@mts.com
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 97 11:42:28
Subject: Re: Cartoon Music
>Getting back to Zorn's influences vis-a-vis Burroughs, I'm surprised that no
>one has yet mentioned the well documented interest Zorn has in cartoon
>music. Frankly cartoon music does the exact quick style shifting that Zorn's
>work is known for.
I was watching Bugs Bunny this morning before work and realized
something. Yamatsuka Eye is the Tasmanian Devil.
:)
- -------------------------------------
Andrew Marks
Software Engineer
MTS-PowerTek, Inc.
E-mail: andy.marks@mts.com
Date: 3/11/97
Time: 11:42:28 AM
Buckethead was raised in the chicken
coop by chickens.
- -------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Jeff Spirer <jeffs@hyperreal.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 16:26:29 -0800
Subject: Re: cynical hysterie hour
At 01:54 PM 3/9/97 -0800, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
>On Sun, 9 Mar 1997 13:44:19 -0000 "kevin cornish" wrote:
>>
>> can any one help me ?
>>
>> is cynical hysterie hour - john zorn still available
>> does anyone know where i can get a copy from ?
>
>This record has never been really available outside Japan.
>
>This is one of these typical Japanese releases that never leave the
>country. Even Japanese people did not find it. Can you imagine a
>record on CBS/Sony being harder to find than a record on an indie
>label?
I think one reason it was so hard to find when it was in print was that
people always wanted a John Zorn recording, but instead it was sold as a
soundtrack to the show. It was sold more in the children's section of CD
stores in Japan.
When I did buy it (this goes back a number of years), I had no trouble
obtaining it (in Japan) using the catalog number. I even found the CD
single from CCH by asking in a retail store for CCH.
It did go out of print quickly but given that Sony released it as a
soundtrack, this is not surprising.
Jeff Spirer
Axiom/Material
www.hyperreal.com/axiom/
------------------------------
From: Matthew Ross Davis <mozart@butterfly.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 20:19:50 -0500
Subject: Re: chance vs. indeterminacy
Scott and list,
>I wonder, if Burroughs had turned to
>music (I mean as an instrumenalist rather than a 'reader') as well as
>texts and visuals, if he would have extended his technique to
>incorporate time, which is essentially the distinction we are making
>here.
Hm. Interesting question. The closest 'musical' friend Burroughs had was
Paul Bowles, so one might presume that the thought of applying his thoughts
to music never crossed his mind (what I mean is that Bowles's music is
fairly tonal in comparison). It could also be that Bill expressly didn't
want to deal with music.
But if you think about it, Burroughs's voice is very musical in and of
itself! The way he drags out vowels and words is wonderful.
Of couse, there is a passage in <The Western Lands> which says something to
the effect of "music can be used as a practical weapon." I'll have to look
it up in my copy at home tonight.
>Zorn, Shea, Otomo etc have more 'information' to play with;ie
>music has volume, velocity, texture, time etc where text is obviously
>fixed. I think Otomo's approach is closest to Burroughs.
I'm actually not very familiar with Otomo's approach, though I probably
should be. How exactly are they more similar?
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
m-a-t-t-h-e-w r-o-s-s d-a-v-i-s university of maryland
http://www.butterfly.net/mozart school of music
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
------------------------------
From: NGUYEN VAN TAN Olivier <onvt@micronet.fr>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 01:46:28 +0100
Subject: Joey Baron & " Jazz Snob Eat Shit " (Naked City)
Chris,
Well, after a while : I 've got the answer ...
And what should avant-garde snobs eat? :^)))
maybe, mushroom with French Fries... =20
;=B0>>
I 've got an interview of Joey Baron in a French paper : Joey explains
that he was in fact a jazz snob for a long time...
He was just a drummer for classical jazz bands and his dream=20
was to play in the quintet of Mile Davis of the 60's ...=20
He played drums and that's it.
No creation, no feelings, no point of view about his music.
Then, he started to think more like an artist than a single drummer.
And he met Bill Frisell : that was a crux in his life.
Then, came Bill with Zorn, Berne or Roberts : they started to ask him =
what
his point of view was and our Joey Baron was born !!
Olivier
------------------------------
From: NGUYEN VAN TAN Olivier <onvt@micronet.fr>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 01:57:12 +0100
Subject: Tzadik Festival (first day)
In Paris, I 've just saw the Tzadik festival, the first day :
Anthony Coleman Trio : a medium performance.
Drums and piano were OK but bass was too loud and ... too poor, I think.
Ikue Mori, Kato Hideki, Jim Plotkin
No Fred Frith, too bad...
It was a good gig : noise, drum machine and a very dynamic bass.
Very creative and pleasant : a nice work about sounds and music.
Ikue is still looking for something and we have fun to do it with her.
Eyvind Kang
Absolutely not like the CD on Tzadik !
Mixed music : reggae, rock, hardcore, noisy... Nice job.
With the same GREAT bassist K. Hideki.
I would say that it was less experimental but more fun than Ikue Mori.
E. Kang looks young and seems to be talent : let's see what he is =
capable
of...
See you tomorrow for the next day with Elegy, Ruins & Krakauer...
Olivier
ps: a really bad organisation for this gig, no ads, poor sound check,
problems of lights... and only few people were there ...
(not the same crowd as for Bar Kokhba)
maybe, I should think that ... France sucks !! ;=B0>
------------------------------
From: Matthew Ross Davis <mozart@butterfly.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 20:33:11 -0500
Subject: Re:
At 8:02 AM -0700 3/11/97, dennis summers wrote:
>The point I'm going to with all this is that
>although Zorn's music certainly mimics the form of a cut-up, I'd be very
>surprised if it was created the same way. Issues of intentionality and
>awareness of context aside, I think that this is a pretty significant
>difference.
I don't know if there is that much of a difference, however moreso with
Cage than Zorn. This was infact the very thing Cage was doing when
composing pieces like "Music of Changes" - indeed, the whole intention was
to deconstruct and then reconstruct. Cage wanted to loose complete control
over what the outcome would be, even though he had precise control over the
materials. For example, in "Music of Changes", Cage created all the
rhythmic, harmonic and melodic material and then *afterwards* applied
chance operations to these figures to mix them up and combine them. And
there are several times when the performers are allowed to use previous
works by Cage internally within a different work. So though it doesn't
mirror the Gyson/Burroughs methods directly, one thing they share is that
"original" material is deconstructed.
As far as Zorn is concerned, the index-card compositions come closest, I
think, to cut-ups - except that the materials on the index-cards were never
really 'cut-up' and were often times not even of Zorn's creation.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
m-a-t-t-h-e-w r-o-s-s d-a-v-i-s university of maryland
http://www.butterfly.net/mozart school of music
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
------------------------------
From: Wlt4@aol.com
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 23:13:57 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Bacharach box set
Since Zorn seems to be a Mr. B. fan, it seems worth mentioning that Rhino
will release a 3-CD Bacharach box this fall, probably October. Apparently,
all the original versions of his songs performed by whoever he wrote them
for.
Best, Lang Thompson
http://members.aol.com/wlt4/index.htm
------------------------------
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 20:26:05 -0800
Subject: Re: Bacharach box set
On Tue, 11 Mar 1997 23:13:57 -0500 (EST) Wlt4@aol.com wrote:
>
> Since Zorn seems to be a Mr. B. fan, it seems worth mentioning that Rhino
> will release a 3-CD Bacharach box this fall, probably October. Apparently,
> all the original versions of his songs performed by whoever he wrote them
> for.
And following, Tzadik will release a Serge Gainsbourg Tribute!
Patrice.
------------------------------
From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 01:12:56 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Joey Baron & " Jazz Snob Eat Shit " (Naked City)
On Wed, 12 Mar 1997, NGUYEN VAN TAN Olivier wrote:
> I 've got an interview of Joey Baron in a French paper : Joey explains
> that he was in fact a jazz snob for a long time...
[snip]
> And he met Bill Frisell : that was a crux in his life.
In the interview with Baron a few months ago in _Cadence_, Baron made
similar comments. Apparently a big turning point for him was being
dragged by Frisell to a gig involving Arto Lindsay (who, as most people on
this list probably know, can't play guitar conventionally at all), and
then being shocked to find out that this "incompetent" "non-musician" was
one of Frisell's heroes. Truly, Arto is an inspiration to us all.
Chris Hamilton
------------------------------
From: JonAbbey@aol.com
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 02:34:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: New Fred Frith Album on Tzadik ?
<<209 - EYE TO EAR: Fred Frith
1/ Le Rencontre (Title Theme) (Frith) 4:11
2/ Backroom (Frith) 3:22
3/ Thea und Nat (Frith) 12:22
I/ Welcome Home
II/ Suspicion Theme (for Bernard Herrmann)
III/ Thea's Theme
IV/ Suspicion Theme II
V/ Not Drwoning But Waving
4/ Backroom II (Frith) 5:30
5/ Picture of Light (Frith) 9:47
6/ Ostkreuz (Frith) 6:00
I/ Frozen Landscape
II/ Dragging Half A Pig
III/ Driving To Grandma's
IV/ In The Abandoned Building
7/ Before Sunrise - In The Train (Frith) 2:47
8/ Backroom III (Frith) 8:07
9/ Le Rencontre (Reprise) (Frith) 3:36
(1,3,6,9) recorded at Sound Fabrik, Munich, Germany
(2,4,5,8) recorded at Mobius Studio, San Francisco
(7) recorded at Jankowski Studio, Stuttgart, Germany
Michaela Dietl (3,6): accordion; Tilman Mueller (3,6): trumpet; Christian
Kaya (3): clarinet; Boris Denker (1,9): tenor; Willy Webster (2,4,8):
organ;
Fred Frith: all other instruments and manipulations.
1997 - Tzadik (USA), TZ 7503 (CD)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seems to be out.>>
Actually, it's being released next Tuesday, the 18th.
Jon
------------------------------
End of zorn-list Digest V2 #68
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