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1997-01-15
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From: zorn-list-owner@xmission.com
To: zorn-list-digest@xmission.com
Subject: zorn-list Digest V2 #50
Reply-To: zorn-list@xmission.com
Errors-To: zorn-list-owner@xmission.com
Precedence:
zorn-list Digest Thursday, 16 January 1997 Volume 02 : Number 050
In this issue:
Re: Alexander von Schlippenbach
Re: Alexander von Schlippenbach
Re: Alexander von Schlippenbach
Re: Zorn a fake?
Re: Zorn a fake?
Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #49
Re: Tzadik Festival 97
More details about the TAKTLOS festival (Switzerland)
Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #49
Blood Duster
Tom Cora 's Roof
Re: Tom Cora 's Roof
RE: Tom Cora 's Roof
Re: Tom Cora 's Roof
draft of FAQ - COMMENTS Please
Re: draft of FAQ - COMMENTS Please
See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the zorn-list
or zorn-list-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ssmith@knittingfactory.com (Steve Smith)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 13:08:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Alexander von Schlippenbach
>Von Schilppenbach's name has popped up a few times now on the Bungle/Faith
>No More list, and the only thing anyone says is that they heard he was
>doing the same in the '60's that Zorn does now (whatever that means). I
>already tried a couple of web searches, but can't find anything. Does
>anyone have any info on this guy, who he is, what his is like? Just
>curious. Thanks in advance.
Matt -
I realize you're not the source of this claim so please don't think for a
moment that I'm sounding off on you, far from it! It's just that I think
this claim is misleading to say the least... what's it supposed to mean?
It doesn't really describe what Schlippenbach does and it comes off
sounding like yet another attempt to belittle Zorn's massive
accomplishments. It's the same line of thinking that produced that whole
stupid "Zorn Sucks" argument that I think Patrice quite eloquently stamped
out a bit earlier.
Schlippenbach is a remarkable pianist/composer who founded the Globe Unity
Orchestra, nominally leads one of the greatest improv trios in the world
with Evan Parker and Paul Lovens, and now also leads the Berlin
Contemporary Jazz Orchestra which has recorded for ECM and FMP. You can
find out lots more about him on Peter Stubley's excellent European Free
Improvisation page, at http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/mschlipp.html
Steve
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Smith
Public Relations Manager
Knitting Factory / Knitting Factory Works
74 Leonard St., New York, NY 10013 (212) 219-3006 ext. 22
ssmith@knittingfactory.com
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:35:31 -0800
Subject: Re: Alexander von Schlippenbach
On Tue, 14 Jan 1997 13:08:03 -0500 Steve Smith wrote:
>
> >Von Schilppenbach's name has popped up a few times now on the Bungle/Faith
> >No More list, and the only thing anyone says is that they heard he was
> >doing the same in the '60's that Zorn does now (whatever that means). I
> >already tried a couple of web searches, but can't find anything. Does
> >anyone have any info on this guy, who he is, what his is like? Just
> >curious. Thanks in advance.
>
> Matt -
>
> I realize you're not the source of this claim so please don't think for a
> moment that I'm sounding off on you, far from it! It's just that I think
> this claim is misleading to say the least... what's it supposed to mean?
> It doesn't really describe what Schlippenbach does and it comes off
> sounding like yet another attempt to belittle Zorn's massive
> accomplishments. It's the same line of thinking that produced that whole
> stupid "Zorn Sucks" argument that I think Patrice quite eloquently stamped
> out a bit earlier.
>
> Schlippenbach is a remarkable pianist/composer who founded the Globe Unity
> Orchestra, nominally leads one of the greatest improv trios in the world
> with Evan Parker and Paul Lovens, and now also leads the Berlin
> Contemporary Jazz Orchestra which has recorded for ECM and FMP. You can
> find out lots more about him on Peter Stubley's excellent European Free
> Improvisation page, at http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/mschlipp.html
Totally agree with Steve.
The funny thing is that Mengelberg would have made a little bit more sense
(because of his involvement with contemporary avant garde and other dadaist
experiments), but Baron Schlippenbach? I really don't get it.
Patrice.
------------------------------
From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu>
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:49:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Alexander von Schlippenbach
On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
> I know Schlippenbach's music and I do not see at all what these people
> mean! Schlippenbach is one of the main European improvisers. His band
> (Globe Unity) was, to my knowledge, the first to perform improv. in a
> big band context (not to mention the idea of gathering musicians all
> across Europe, at a time the EEC was just a dream :-).
I'd have thought (perhaps wrongly) that the Sun Ra Arkestra's use of free
improvisation predated Globe Unity. (Also, didn't the Brotzmann Octet
which recorded _Machine Gun_ exist as a unit before Globe Unity actually
included any non-German members? I seem to recall reading that somewhere.
Not a big band, of course, but the Octet did have a pretty international
lineup.)
Chris Hamilton
chhst9+@pitt.edu
------------------------------
From: IOUaLive1@aol.com
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 18:56:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Zorn a fake?
In a message dated 97-01-11 18:08:16 EST, denniss@ic.net (dennis summers)
writes:
> I just came back from a record store where I got into an interesting
> conversation with the owner and a customer. Now it has been my experience
> that people who are familiar with JZ tend to love him or hate him, but
these
> guys were aguing that he's a fake -that he actually plays poorly, writes
> poorly and generally is overhyped
Saying someone plays and writes poorly, is just an opinion. These things are
subjective. Now, if your friends could substantiate their claims, as to
*why* he is a "fake", that would be different. If they could, say, point out
a fact, like that Zorn ripped off "Joe Composer", and could cite specific
references to this ripping off... I think that may actually qualify someone
for being a fake. But I think his writing is completely original, and wether
or not its good or bad is neither here nor there, but I think its original.
And as far as his sax playing goes, he is also original in the way he plays
the sax. Aside from playing the wild, animal calls, and otherwise out-there
stuff, he can play some serious bop. Methinks he's pretty damn talented. My
point: I don't think he's a fake. Cocky and arrogant, maybe.. :)
------------------------------
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:22:53 -0800
Subject: Re: Zorn a fake?
On Tue, 14 Jan 1997 18:56:37 -0500 (EST) IOUaLive1@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 97-01-11 18:08:16 EST, denniss@ic.net (dennis summers)
> writes:
>
> > I just came back from a record store where I got into an interesting
> > conversation with the owner and a customer. Now it has been my experience
> > that people who are familiar with JZ tend to love him or hate him, but
> these
> > guys were aguing that he's a fake -that he actually plays poorly, writes
> > poorly and generally is overhyped
>
> Saying someone plays and writes poorly, is just an opinion. These things are
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I can tell you that if I try to play clarinet and somebody says that I play
poorly, this would not be an opinion at all, but just stating a (sad, but
nevertheless true) fact.
Personally I really do not care about what people think of Zorn's alto sound
and technique. I can recognize Zorn among hundred of alto players after just
few measures. Rare are the alto players with such a signature. If the
point if copying Parker (Charlie), Desmond, McLean or Dolphy, yes, Zorn
might not be at their level. But is it what we should expect from a musician
of the '90s? Has jazz reached a point similar to classical music where
creation is so stale that only interpretation is left to a player (and
departure from the canon a fault)?
Patrice.
------------------------------
From: "John E. Young" <youngje@well.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 20:04:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #49
> > himself as an outstanding composer. If your standard of playing is based
> > on bebop, Zorn has not established himself as an outstanding player. Many
i've missed much of this thread, but this statement, in particular, seems
worth some debate. zorn doesn't spend his time playing "night in
tunisia" over and over (or any other bop chestnuts), but i'd challenge
anyone who's seen a masada show to name an alto player who tops him in
live performance in a bebop style. masada's tunes are based on jewish
music, but when they do the uptempo stuff, it's as close to bop as
any new music now being played. zorn's chops, harmonic inventiveness,
and melodic sense are on a par (in my experience of a few masada shows)
with anyone else these days on his instrument. i'd even venture
to say he tops everyone else (but that's only in my experience).
jy
------------------------------
From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 04:13:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Tzadik Festival 97
NGUYEN VAN TAN Olivier wrote:
>I have some more info about the Tzadik Festival in Paris. Here is
>the list of the gigs.
>11 Mars:
>Klezmer Madness
>Eyvind Kang Project
>The Ruins
>12 Mars:
>Death Ambient
I would love to see this ...
>Plotkin Trio
* Whoa! Any info here? James Plotkin, I presume, but with who???
>Elegy
This as well ...
>Anthony Coleman
Does anyone know any more about this festival?
- -Patrick
------------------------------
From: fenechd@charon.stm.com (David FENECH)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 97 09:36:30 +0100
Subject: More details about the TAKTLOS festival (Switzerland)
> > This year Derek Bailey will also play with RUINS at the TAKTLOS festival
> > of Basel , Switzerland. I can provide more info if you want.
> >
> Please send me all the information you have. Do you know who else will be
> playing at the festival, what date it takes place and how I order tickets?
>
> Thanks alot!!
>
So here are the info that I just received. They might interest all
the suscribers from Europe...
The TAKTLOS 1997 festival will take place in BASEL, BERN & ZURICH
(Switzerland) from March 21 to 23. The programme will include Derek &
the Ruins (Derek Bailey , Tatsuya Yoshida & HISASHI SASAKI the new
bass player). There will also be :
Death Ambient (Ikue Mori , K Hideki, J Plotkin)
Paul Bley/Evan Parker/Barre Phillips trio
Ellington country (with chadbourne , P.lovens ...)
Kletka Red (with Andy from the ex, Leonid from Ne Zhdali, Tony buck from Peril)
Sephardic Tinge (Antony Coleman, Greg Cohen, Michael Sarin)
Thurston Moore/Tom Surgal/ William Winant
The Great Explorer (John Edwards from God, Shock exchange + David Fitzgerald)
Tristan Hosinger quintet
you can e-mail Fredi Bosshard for further info : fb@woz.links.ch
He also has a web site : http://www.hugo.ch/
bye
david FENECH
------------------------------
From: Robert Pleshar <rpleshar@midway.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 08:25:05 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #49
At 08:04 PM 1/14/97 -0800, John E. Young wrote:
>> > himself as an outstanding composer. If your standard of playing is based
>> > on bebop, Zorn has not established himself as an outstanding player. Many
>
>i've missed much of this thread, but this statement, in particular, seems
>worth some debate. zorn doesn't spend his time playing "night in
>tunisia" over and over (or any other bop chestnuts), but i'd challenge
>anyone who's seen a masada show to name an alto player who tops him in
>live performance in a bebop style.
Actually, I've heard that the ONLY thing he practices is bebop tunes.
>masada's tunes are based on jewish
>music, but when they do the uptempo stuff, it's as close to bop as
>any new music now being played. zorn's chops, harmonic inventiveness,
>and melodic sense are on a par (in my experience of a few masada shows)
>with anyone else these days on his instrument. i'd even venture
>to say he tops everyone else (but that's only in my experience).
I agree that Zorn is an underrated saxophone player. Critics (not all) seem
to think there is one standard by which sax players should be measured
against and if someone excels in another aspect, that is not counted as
highly. I doubt he'll ever win the Downbeat critics or listeners poll, but
there's no reason every alto sax player should be compared to Phil Woods.
Ralph
------------------------------
From: Matt Walsh <MATTW@smginc.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 97 11:11:00 PST
Subject: Blood Duster
Someone had asked me for a review I did on Blood Duster in New Rock
Review. I lost his address but figured since it was so short it could be
posted to the list for anyone else that was interested in them. The
review is REALLY short and not very descript (we review tons of stuff so
all reviews all usually one paragraph), but maybe this will answer some
people's questions a little. If anyone wants more info on them, let me
know.
Blood Duster
"Yeest"
(Relapse Records)
Matt Walsh
When I found out that this band got their name from a song from one of my
favorite bands, Naked City, I knew this was going to be a band I was
going to like a lot. Their label describes Blood Duster as "Psycho Rock
Menstrual Grind Porn", and as odd as it sounds, it's pretty much on
target. What we have here is a Grindcore band definitely influenced by
old Napalm Death with a killer groove sound similar to Entombed. Throw in
some funny and disgusting sound bits from various movies, and you have
Blood Duster. The 32 tracks total at approximately 39 minutes (that's
nearly one minute per track, for all you non-mathematicians). The result
is an intense disc yet also humorous. Definitely recommended to fans of
early Grindcore.
Matt Walsh
mattw@smginc.com
------------------------------
From: NGUYEN VAN TAN Olivier <onvt@micronet.fr>
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 18:57:00 +0100
Subject: Tom Cora 's Roof
Long time ago, on the 21st of November 1996, I saw
Tom Cora 's roof at "les Instants Chavires" in Paris.
This band is composed by:
Tom Cora : cello
Luc Ex : bass
Phil Minton : vocals
Michael Vatcher : drums
This gig was so GREAT. Phil Minton looks like Joe Cocker
("oh, my god, not Joe Cocker" I said before the show !!) but
for sure, this man was great ! Sometimes, he sang like
a disney toon (or sounds like) and sometimes, he really
sang with a deep and dark voice. He IS so GOOD.
Tom Cora : as usual, excellent. He said to me that now, he
lives in France (in Marseille) and is married with a French singer.
Luc Ex was tremendous at bass and was a fury in the back of the
stage. Powerfull and complex kind of play.
Michael Vatcher was also very very good and very creative behind drums.
He reminds me Joey Baron in his play, but not as quick and sharp as
Joey.
This band is really one of the best band I saw in 1996 and I bought
their CD. It is great with the same atmosphere as in gigs.
It is called "The untraceable cigar" (don't ask me why?) and it is
on Red Note (a German label).
I advice you to listen to this CD because it is very emotional :
quite and powerfull, creative and very musical. I love it.
Olivier
------------------------------
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 14:13:02 -0800
Subject: Re: Tom Cora 's Roof
On Wed, 15 Jan 1997 18:57:00 +0100 NGUYEN VAN TAN Olivier wrote:
>
> Long time ago, on the 21st of November 1996, I saw
> Tom Cora 's roof at "les Instants Chavires" in Paris.
>
> This band is composed by:
> Tom Cora : cello
> Luc Ex : bass
> Phil Minton : vocals
> Michael Vatcher : drums
>
> This gig was so GREAT. Phil Minton looks like Joe Cocker
> ("oh, my god, not Joe Cocker" I said before the show !!) but
> for sure, this man was great ! Sometimes, he sang like
> a disney toon (or sounds like) and sometimes, he really
> sang with a deep and dark voice. He IS so GOOD.
>
> Tom Cora : as usual, excellent. He said to me that now, he
> lives in France (in Marseille) and is married with a French singer.
^^^^^^
French or Belgium? Last I heard he Catherine Jauniaux and Tom were
living together.
> Luc Ex was tremendous at bass and was a fury in the back of the
> stage. Powerfull and complex kind of play.
>
> Michael Vatcher was also very very good and very creative behind drums.
> He reminds me Joey Baron in his play, but not as quick and sharp as
> Joey.
Hey! Listen to SPY VS. SPY and the two men do a incredible job.
Patrice.
------------------------------
From: NGUYEN VAN TAN Olivier <onvt@micronet.fr>
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 00:32:38 +0100
Subject: RE: Tom Cora 's Roof
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French or Belgium? Last I heard he Catherine Jauniaux and Tom were
living together.
Yes, you 're right : Tom and Catherine Jauniaux for the tabloids !
;=B0>
Belgium? maybe... I don't know exactly. I thought she was French.
Do you know more about her?
BTW, Tom is doing some classical gigs in the South East of France=20
(near Marseille).
Thanks for SPY vs SPY.
Olivier
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------------------------------
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 15:49:14 -0800
Subject: Re: Tom Cora 's Roof
On Thu, 16 Jan 1997 00:32:38 +0100 NGUYEN VAN TAN Olivier wrote:
>
> French or Belgium? Last I heard he Catherine Jauniaux and Tom were
> living together.
>
> Yes, you 're right : Tom and Catherine Jauniaux for the tabloids !
> ;=B0>
>
> Belgium? maybe... I don't know exactly. I thought she was French.
> Do you know more about her?
First, she is an amazing singer. Really twisted (yes, you can be an
innovative female singer without imitating Diamanda Galas...).
I first noticed her:
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
028 - UN PEU DE L'AME DES BANDITS: Aqsak Maboul
1/ A Modern Lesson (Hollander) 4:58
2/ Palmiers En Pots (Wuyts, Hollander) 3:24
3/ Geistige Nacht (Frith) 5:18
4/ I Viaggi Formano La Giovento (trad.) 5:09
5/ Inoculating Rabies (Van Hecke, Frith) 1:47
Cinema (Hollander, Wuyts) 22:45
6a/ Ce Qu'On Peut Voir Avec Un Bon Microscope 7:25
6b/ Alluvions 5:27
6c/ Azinou Crapules 7:05
6d/ Age Route Brra! (Radio Sofia) 2:48
Recorded in February and August 1979 at Sunrise Studio, Kirchberg,
Switzerland
Michel Berckmans: oboe, bassoon, choir; Chris Cutler (1,2,3,5,6): drums,
percussion, radio; Fred Frith: bass, electric and acoustic guitars, violins,
viola; Denis van Hecke: acoustic and electric cellos, rhythm guitar, voice;
Marc Hollander: organ, alto, soprano, clarinet, bass clarinet, piano,
dumbeg, tapes; Catherine Jauniaux (1,6): voice, flipper; Frank Wuyts (1,2,3,
4,6): drums, flipper, recorder, piano, oberheim, percussion, choir.
1979 - Kamikaze (Belgium), private pressing (LP)
1979 - Crammed Discs (Belgium), Atem/Crammed 002 (LP)
1996 - Crammed Discs (Belgium), CRAM 002 (CD)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
where she exhibits a unique talent.
Besides that she has been working quite a bit with Ikue Mori (in Vibraslaps,
their duo), and Tom Cora.
Patrice.
------------------------------
From: rizzi@netcom.com (m. rizzi)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 18:48:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: draft of FAQ - COMMENTS Please
Hola Zorn-sters,
Here is my VERY ROUGH first stab at the FAQ...I've listed
some suggested questions that I haven't had a chance to
write an answer to...please feel free to toss some
prose my way.
Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
for the
The John Zorn Mailing List
version 1.0 DRAFT 1.0
When is John Zorn going to be playing in a city near me?
Since there is no single source for John Zorns touring
schedule, this FAQ will be updated with upcoming shows
reported by other members of the zorn-list
January 17, 1997 Slim's - San Francisco, USA
John Zorn/Mike Patton/Ikue Mori
January 22, 1997 Opium Den - Taipei, Taiwan
John Zorn/Mike Patton/Ikue Mori
March Paris, France
Tzadik Festival
Mar 11
Klezmer Madness
Eyvind Kang Project
The Ruins
Mar 12
Death Ambient
Plotkin Trio
Elegy
Anthony Coleman
April 8, 1997 le hot brass - Paris, France
Masada
April 10, 1997 l'Ancienne Belgique - Brussels, Belgium
Masada
How can I get a copy of Masada 4?
You can't. Well, it's pretty unlikely at the least. It
was never available for retail; it was given away by DIW
in exchange of the proof of buying the three first Masada;
the deadline for getting it was June 1995.
How do you pronounce "Tzadik"?
TZ as in "glitzy"
A as in "bad"
DIK as in "deek"
It means holy man in Hebrew
Is "Heretic" by Naked City really a soundtrack?
Are Mike Patton and The Melvins on "Leng T'che"?
Is Zorn in Mr. Bungle?
What happened to the "Radio Vol. 2" and the live box from the Zornfest?
I hear that Zorn and Eugene Chadbourne broke up because Zorn ripped of
Eugene, and now they hate eachother. Is that true?
I just purchased Zorn/Bailey/Parker - Harras. Towards the end of
of the track "Evening Harras," there's about 10 minutes of dead air,
followed by a section of what seems to be Bailey solo. Is this a mistake?
"According to Derek Bailey, the abrupt cutoff was planned.
Derek wanted to end it "on a high". The Bailey solo material
appended after the silence was apparently Zorn's idea."
(thanks to Peter Stubley/Lynn Rardin)
What's a "game piece"?
Did Zorn and Yamantaka Eye really release a 100 cd box?
how to order from Tzadik?
Is there a zorn discography?
-=- -=- -=-
THANKS to the following people who helped (actively and inadvertently)
answer the common questions that crop up on the zorn-list.
herb@eskimo.com (Herb Levy)
zoopsi@inet.uni-c.dk (Torsten "Jonas" Nielsen)
proussel@ichips.intel.com (Patrice L. Roussel)
------------------------------
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 07:58:39 -0800
Subject: Re: draft of FAQ - COMMENTS Please
Mike,
You forgot the most important:
- why do Zorn wear socks with different colors?
- how many army pants does he own?
- what is the size of his record collection (CD, LP, etc)?
- what is the size of his Asian porn movie collection?
- is he gay?
- is somebody working on his biography?
- when is he gonna rent a larger appartment?
Patrice :-).
------------------------------
End of zorn-list Digest V2 #50
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