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zorn-list Digest          Friday, 22 November 1996      Volume 02 : Number 034

In this issue:

    Trespass
    Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #33
    another new compilation w/ zorn
    Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism
    Re: Trespass
    Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism
    Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism
    Joey, off the beaten track
    Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism
    Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism
    Re: another new compilation w/ zorn
    Re: another new compilation w/ zorn
    eckert,jaffe..
    Re: eckert,jaffe..
    Re: another new compilation w/ zorn
    Re: Trespass
    Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism

See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the zorn-list
or zorn-list-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Douglas Knox <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 15:04:41 +1100 (EDT)
Subject: Trespass

Thu, 21 Nov 1996 20:47:19 -0500: Lang Thompson writes
>For all we know, Zorn himself decided against it being used.  Maybe he
>thought his score wasn't being used appropriately, maybe it was a money
>thing, who knows?

Well, no. When Phil Brophy interviewed Zorn, Zorn expressed some
bitterness about this project, and the fact that his commisioned score
had not been used. And given the packaging of Filmworks 2:
"For an untitled film by", "special permission of"; coupled with the fact
that Zorn (or anyone else) has never made any public statement about the
work, perhaps its not unreasonable to imagine there are contractual
restraints governing this whole thing.

To me this seemed like an instance of a multinational combine stiffing a
creative maverick. Tho', in retrospect, I think I probably was a little
ill-considered and polemical about expressing this. Anyways

go well, stay free...

Jim K

------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (star leigh wall)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 20:13:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #33

>did anyone see mr bungle in athens this past time around? ....
>i went up to jz, and opened my mouth to say something and he just scowled
>and walked away. whatta guy.

John Zorn? On tour with Mr. Bungle? If you're referring to any of the
musicians that played in the band, I can assure you it wasn't John Zorn.
Zorn has not performed with Mr. Bungle at any shows on the Disco Volante
tour (nor in the past to my knowledge).

And this is a minor side note, but the song introduced as "Honeysuckle
Rose" was actually a Joe Meek song called "Love Dance of the Saroos."



------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (jonathan kaye)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 23:38:13 -0500
Subject: another new compilation w/ zorn

>On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:40:27 -0800 (PST)  [e-mail] wrote:
>>
>>
>> For all you Zorn completists the tune Bikkurim from the Bar Kokhba CD
>> also appears on a Hanukkah CD called Festival of Light, together with
>> tunes by the Klezmatics, Don Byron, Jane Siberry. All very mellow
>> but worth a listen. Produced by Bob Appel.
>
>What about the label? Is it a new release? Also, what is the complete
>list of artists? That is the risk you take on this list when you jump
>on and announce a new record :-).
>
>        Patrice.

there's also a zorn track on a new "ambient" compilation called "ocean of
sound", an import on virgin records (ambt 10) which is music compiled to
accompany david toop's book on ambient, also called "ocean of sound"

disc one

king tubby              dub fi gwan
herbie hancock          rain dance
aphex twin              analogue bublebathI
jon hassel              empire III
ujang suryana           sorban palid
claude debussy          prelude a l'apres midi d'un faune
les baxter              sunken city
my bloody valentine     loomer
brian eno               lizard point
shunie omizutori
  buddhist ceremony
the vancouver soundscape the  music of horns and whistles
howler monkeys
peter brotzmann octet   machine gun
yanomami rain song
harold budd             bismillahi 'rrahmani 'rrahim

disc two

miles davis             black satin
terry riley             extract from poppy nogood "all night flight"
detty kurnia            coyor panon
ornette coleman         virgin beauty
john zorn/david toop    chen pe'i pe'i
paul schultze           rivers of mercury
the velvet underground  i heard her call my name
bearded seals
holger czukay &
  rolf dammers          boat - woman - song
the beach boys          fall breaks and back into winter (woody woodpecker
                        symphony)
african headcharge      faraway chant
sun ra                  cosmo enticement
music improvisation co. untitled
deep listening band     seven-up
john cage               in a landscape
erik satie              vexations
suikinkutsu water chime


it's actually pretty amazing compilation. i mean how often do you get
ornette coleman and the beach boys on the same disc. does anyone know
anything about the cd the zorn/toop track is taken from, 1987's "deadly
weapon" by steve beresford, tonie marshall, david toop and john zorn.


jon



------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 23:48:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism

In a message dated 11/21/96 10:30:21 PM, [e-mail] (Jeff Spirer)
wrote:

>>It seems like just
>>recently has techno/jungle created enough compost for really interesting
>>artists to grow; i'm thinking of people like DJ Spooky (skip his liner
>>notes), DJ Shadow, Scanner, The Chemical Brothers.
>
>Most, if not all, of these people are related to the downtown music scene in
>one way or the other and the comment might reflect what one happens to
>listen to otherwise - I have found a lot of interesting stuff coming out of
>England and Germany in this genre for the last three or four years that I
>would say is equivalent of some of these artists.

Huh? DJ Spooky, I'll give you. But the others? Scanner's an English guy named
Robin Rimbaud whose only vague connection to the downtown scene (as far as I
know) is playing on a couple mediocre records/jam sessions with David Shea
(and Robert Hampson of Main). The Chemical Brothers are also from England and
I know of no connection to the scene. Same goes for DJ Shadow, who hails from
California.

I think what these artists do have in common is their work is pretty widely
available (with the possible exception of Scanner) and they've all gotten a
fair amount of press. I also think, although I do like all of these artists
at least a little, that just as in most genres of music, much of the best
stuff is lesser known. For instance, if you ask me, the best electronica
album around right now, is Kruder and Dorfmeister's DJ Kicks. It's a 70-plus
minute DJ mix album that takes the style to new heights, eclipsing the
Spookmeister and all other pretenders.

Lang, you said:

<<But what it's lead to is a lot of preaching that techno (or electronica) is
the future and that most everything else is now irrelevant.>>

Obviously this isn't true (the preaching, that is) but what i do think is
true is that electronica is at a stage now that funk was at in the late
sixties or rap was at in the mid eighties. That is, a nascent stage in which
you can watch a style of music develop and progress, album by album, artist
by artist. I'm just waiting for the James Browns, P-Funks, Sly Stones, and
Public Enemys of electronica to emerge. Meanwhile, I enjoy watching many of
the artists in the field grow. And, sure, there's a lot of crap. What kind of
music doesn't have a lot of jokers mixed in with the geniuses? I think we're
at a very exciting time for music and electronica is one of the reasons. And
John Zorn is another one.

My personal "electronica" favorites:

The aforementioned K+D record
Red Snapper-Reeled and Skinned (acid jazz with a sax player with legit chops)
Mouse On Mars-Ioara Tahiti
Thomas Koner-Anything, especially Permafrost
Lull, Final, Main-Anything (great to fall asleep to)
Pablo's Eye-You Love Chinese Food
Earthling-Radar

Anyway, those are some off the top of my head. It's also interesting to me
how the worlds of electronica and free improv are intersecting. At the
festival in Victoriaville this past May, many of the artists incorporated
electronics in some way culminating in the showcase act, Evan Parker's
Electronic Project. This consisted of Parker, Guy, Lytton, Namchylak
improvising while other musicians processed the music coming from those four
as if they were DJing. Was it completely successful? No, but it was sure
interesting.

Rant over,
Jon


------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 20:56:22 -0800
Subject: Re: Trespass

At 03:04 PM 11/22/96 +1100, James Douglas Knox wrote:
>Thu, 21 Nov 1996 20:47:19 -0500: Lang Thompson writes
>>For all we know, Zorn himself decided against it being used.  Maybe he
>>thought his score wasn't being used appropriately, maybe it was a money
>>thing, who knows?
>
>Well, no. When Phil Brophy interviewed Zorn, Zorn expressed some
>bitterness about this project, and the fact that his commisioned score
>had not been used. And given the packaging of Filmworks 2:
>"For an untitled film by", "special permission of"; coupled with the fact
>that Zorn (or anyone else) has never made any public statement about the
>work, perhaps its not unreasonable to imagine there are contractual
                                       ^^^^^^^'

And as Lang points out, imagination is exactly what is going on here.
Whether Zorn is bitter or not, whether he makes a public statement or not,
the FACT is that imagination is all that is being peddled on this list.

>To me this seemed like an instance of a multinational combine stiffing a
>creative maverick. Tho', in retrospect, I think I probably was a little
>ill-considered and polemical about expressing this. Anyways

Why repeat ill-considered and polemical when you didn't have to?

Like I said before, it could just as easily be imagined that Walter Hill
thought it was terrible music and commissioned someone else to do it.  And
so all that is happening here is some second guessing of the whole thing
because someone happens to think that one soundtrack is better than the other.

Well I won't bother the list on this subject anymore because it will end up
as a flame war over imagined stuff.

Jeff Spirer
http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/
Axiom Records/Material Communications


------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 21:29:08 -0800
Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism

At 11:48 PM 11/21/96 -0500, [e-mail] wrote:
>
>In a message dated 11/21/96 10:30:21 PM, [e-mail] (Jeff Spirer)
>wrote:
>
>>>It seems like just
>>>recently has techno/jungle created enough compost for really interesting
>>>artists to grow; i'm thinking of people like DJ Spooky (skip his liner
>>>notes), DJ Shadow, Scanner, The Chemical Brothers.
>>
>>Most, if not all, of these people are related to the downtown music scene in
>>one way or the other and the comment might reflect what one happens to
>>listen to otherwise - I have found a lot of interesting stuff coming out of
>>England and Germany in this genre for the last three or four years that I
>>would say is equivalent of some of these artists.
>
>Huh? DJ Spooky, I'll give you. But the others? Scanner's an English guy named
>Robin Rimbaud whose only vague connection to the downtown scene (as far as I
>know) is playing on a couple mediocre records/jam sessions with David Shea
>(and Robert Hampson of Main). The Chemical Brothers are also from England and
>I know of no connection to the scene. Same goes for DJ Shadow, who hails from
>California.

Most of them play more in NYC than elsewhere.  I didn't comment on their
origins, but they do seem to be part of that scene.  It's kind of like
calling Bill Frisell downtown...

>

>Red Snapper-Reeled and Skinned (acid jazz with a sax player with legit chops)

This is a great recording.

Jeff Spirer
http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/
Axiom Records/Material Communications


------------------------------

From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 00:50:42 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism

On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 [e-mail] wrote:

>   For me, one of
> the problems with techno is that--as Steve says--it's just set in motion and
> runs along (one reason so much techno/jungle sounds completely
> interchangable).

Two points here: First, keep in mind that dance records are often oriented
primarily towards the dance floor (shockingly enough).  In that context,
they don't just run along, because they're being continually mixed/segued/
whatever it is DJs do.  In fact, you might say they're used as instruments
for extended (usually solo) improvisations.  I'll reiterate that those of
you who are interested in acquiring a taste for d'n'b might consider
checking it out at a club.  Even in that context, it doesn't have to
function as an "accessory" (to use Steve Smith's term) to another
activity.  Try just standing against the wall and listening.

     Second, techno and d'n'b don't sound interchangable to me any more
than other genres of music I listen to.  I have a feeling that this is a
result of nothaving listened to the genre enough to develop a feel for the
nuances that distinguish one track from another. I have the
same problem with death metal, I used to have it with blues, and I've
known people who had it with modern jazz.  Obviously, no one has time to
acquire this kind of feel for every genre, and I don't think anyone should
feel compelled to develop it for techno/d'n'b, but the distinctions are
there.

>  But what it's lead to is a lot of preaching that techno (or electronica) is
> the future and that most everything else is now irrelevant.  That's what
> annoys me most about techno apologists (or for that matter free improvisors
> who claim that written/composed music is oppressive).

Hey, I resemble that remark (both of 'em, oddly enough).  Seriously, I do
think that "new electronica", or whatever we're calling it this week,
provides an interesting complement to improv.  It's pure composition.  It
can be written by a single musician directly onto tape, and once it's been
written, there's no human element to be oppressed.

Chris

Chris Hamilton
Dept. of Philosophy
University of Pittsburgh
Pittsburgh, PA
USA




------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (James Hale)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 01:16:50 -0500
Subject: Joey, off the beaten track

Two new recordings with Baron on drums that may have escaped your attention.
Steve Kuhn's Remembering Tomorrow on ECM (David Finck on bass) and Richard
Galliano's Laurita on Dreyfus (Galliano on accordion, Palle Danielsson on
bass).

James Hale



------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (david m rothbaum)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 23:30:10 -0700
Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism

>     Second, techno and d'n'b don't sound interchangable to me any more
>than other genres of music I listen to.  I have a feeling that this is a
>result of nothaving listened to the genre enough to develop a feel for the
>nuances that distinguish one track from another. I have the
>same problem with death metal, I used to have it with blues, and I've
>known people who had it with modern jazz.  Obviously, no one has time to
>acquire this kind of feel for every genre,

strictly a guess but id assume mr zorn does...



------------------------------

From: Friedrich Feger <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 13:48:49 +0100
Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism

Hi everybody,

Steve wrote:

>>>See, as I described it yesterday, my problem with Photek
>>> and Spring Heel Jack was that, once all the rhythm and color machinery
>>> is set in motion, nothing else HAPPENS.  It's like a perpetual motion
>>> machine that burbles along in its own unique way for a span of however
>>> many minutes and then it goes away to make room for the next little
>>> machine.  Beyond setting the machine in motion, it just feels like
>>> there's very little actual musical activity occurring.  I can imagine
>>> that it would be hellaciously intense for dancing, but right now
>>> I'm speaking as an active and committed listener rather than a partipant
>>> in an activity to which music is an accessory. >>

Then, Lang wrote:

>>******  This raises an interesting point about Minimalism:  can you like
>>Philip Glass and not like jungle/techno?   Does it matter?  For me, one of
>>the problems with techno is that--as Steve says--it's just set in motion and
>>runs along (one reason so much techno/jungle sounds completely
>>interchangable).

I think that setting something in motion and just letting it run along is a
principle which cannot only be found in minimal music, techno and jungle.
It is - for divers reasons - used in, say, hardly every musical genre.
Whereas my association with techno and for example Phillip Glass is more an
industrial one, where the repetition plays with monotony and tries to sound
static, it has another function for example in soul music. James Brown's
music also consists of lots of repetitions, but there they sound more like
tribal, mystical or something to me. To my ears, jungle lies right between
these extremes.

To come to a thesis about all that: It is REQUIRED that nothing happens in
the music to come to a result inside of the recipient different from
listening to music full of developement. The developement inside the
recipient is caused through the absence of changes outside. So I completely
aggree to Lang when he writes:

>> The other point is that techno/jungle requires a different way of listening
>>where it doesn't really matter if "nothing else happens."  This is pretty
>>obvious, i guess, and really doesn't mean much (listening to a Beethoven
>>string quartet is different than Hank Williams, not better just different).

So I personally conclude that jungle can be music only to listen to, but
that the repetitious characteristic predestinates it to be dancefloor music
too. Whereas I've never liked any kind of techno (don't know why since I do
like Glass and Co.), I enjoy jungle even without anything happening but
repetitions. And I find it rather inspiring as carpet for improvisations,
because it brings a completely new feeling. It's a new voice in the choir,
and I welcome it.

Fritz Feger

------------------------------

From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:11:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: another new compilation w/ zorn

> it's actually pretty amazing compilation. i mean how often do you get
> ornette coleman and the beach boys on the same disc. does anyone know
> anything about the cd the zorn/toop track is taken from, 1987's "deadly
> weapon" by steve beresford, tonie marshall, david toop and john zorn.

This looks like a really cool compilation! I like that there's such
diversity.

Matthew Ross Davis
University of Maryland School of Music


------------------------------

From: Robert Pleshar <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:14:02 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: another new compilation w/ zorn

>there's also a zorn track on a new "ambient" compilation called "ocean of
>sound", an import on virgin records (ambt 10) which is music compiled to
>accompany david toop's book on ambient, also called "ocean of sound"

snip

>peter brotzmann octet   machine gun


Whoa! "Machine Gun" is one of the last records I would have picked to be on
an "ambient" collection, but hey good for them!

Ralph


------------------------------

From: hywel davies <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 13:38:09 -0800
Subject: eckert,jaffe..

any info. please on Rinde Eckert ,whose cd 'Finding my way home'(diw)
Frisell played on ? Is the forthcoming Berne 'Big Satan(?)' cd by the
trio that was called 'Lowball' (with Allen Jaffe on gtr.)? Has anyone
heard the new Ellery Eskelin 'the sun died'(soulnote) with Ribot on gtr?
Is there a Herb Robertson cd 'Sound Implosions' on cimp?

------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 11:32:33 -0800
Subject: Re: eckert,jaffe..

hywel davies wrote:
>
> any info. please on Rinde Eckert ,whose cd 'Finding my way home'(diw)
> Frisell played on ?

Don't know this album but Eckert is a performance-art vocalist who did
lots of worthwhile work with California composer Paul Dresher.

> Is the forthcoming Berne 'Big Satan(?)' cd by the
> trio that was called 'Lowball' (with Allen Jaffe on gtr.)?

No, but close,  It's Berne, Marc Ducret (g) and Tom Rainey (d).
Three tunes each by Berne and Ducret.  Due in February from
Winter & Winter (assuming the label finds distribution -
actually I don't think that's a problem for you, just for those
of us in the U.S.).

> Has anyone
> heard the new Ellery Eskelin 'the sun died'(soulnote) with Ribot on gtr?

No, but wasn't this one supposed to be a big swaggering bluesy tribute
to Gene Ammons?

> Is there a Herb Robertson cd 'Sound Implosions' on cimp?

Yes, as well as 'Falling in Flat Space' by the same trio on Cadence
Jazz Records.  Haven't heard them but am told that it's very loose
free improv.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]

------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:13:36 -0800
Subject: Re: another new compilation w/ zorn

On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 23:38:13 -0500  jonathan kaye wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:40:27 -0800 (PST)  [e-mail] wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> For all you Zorn completists the tune Bikkurim from the Bar Kokhba CD
> >> also appears on a Hanukkah CD called Festival of Light, together with
> >> tunes by the Klezmatics, Don Byron, Jane Siberry. All very mellow
> >> but worth a listen. Produced by Bob Appel.
> >
> >What about the label? Is it a new release? Also, what is the complete
> >list of artists? That is the risk you take on this list when you jump
> >on and announce a new record :-).
> >
> >        Patrice.
>
> there's also a zorn track on a new "ambient" compilation called "ocean of
> sound", an import on virgin records (ambt 10) which is music compiled to
> accompany david toop's book on ambient, also called "ocean of sound"

It was in fact hidden somewhere in the discography (item 188).

> it's actually pretty amazing compilation. i mean how often do you get
> ornette coleman and the beach boys on the same disc. does anyone know
> anything about the cd the zorn/toop track is taken from, 1987's "deadly
> weapon" by steve beresford, tonie marshall, david toop and john zorn.

This is a very enjoyable record with great "regular" Zorn solos. The music
moves between songs to experimental rock. The experimental parts are in
the spirit of Toop/Beresford previous project (General Strike). The kind
of record you never talk about but always have pleasure to play...

    Patrice.

------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:30:25 -0800
Subject: Re: Trespass

On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 20:56:22 -0800  Jeff Spirer wrote:
>
> At 03:04 PM 11/22/96 +1100, James Douglas Knox wrote:
> >Thu, 21 Nov 1996 20:47:19 -0500: Lang Thompson writes
> >>For all we know, Zorn himself decided against it being used.  Maybe he
> >>thought his score wasn't being used appropriately, maybe it was a money
> >>thing, who knows?
> >
> >Well, no. When Phil Brophy interviewed Zorn, Zorn expressed some
> >bitterness about this project, and the fact that his commisioned score
> >had not been used. And given the packaging of Filmworks 2:
> >"For an untitled film by", "special permission of"; coupled with the fact
> >that Zorn (or anyone else) has never made any public statement about the
> >work, perhaps its not unreasonable to imagine there are contractual
>                                        ^^^^^^^'
>
> And as Lang points out, imagination is exactly what is going on here.
> Whether Zorn is bitter or not, whether he makes a public statement or not,
> the FACT is that imagination is all that is being peddled on this list.
>
> >To me this seemed like an instance of a multinational combine stiffing a
> >creative maverick. Tho', in retrospect, I think I probably was a little
> >ill-considered and polemical about expressing this. Anyways
>
> Why repeat ill-considered and polemical when you didn't have to?
>
> Like I said before, it could just as easily be imagined that Walter Hill
> thought it was terrible music and commissioned someone else to do it.  And
> so all that is happening here is some second guessing of the whole thing
> because someone happens to think that one soundtrack is better than the other.
>
> Well I won't bother the list on this subject anymore because it will end up
> as a flame war over imagined stuff.

Next time somebody dares to say something on this list we will ask him to
prove it with a paper signed by the artists involved (I am still checking
if we will require the involvement of layers).

James thought that by having a friend who interviewed the man, his mail was
serious enough to justify posting it. Now he knows that he better provides
better homework. Hope this will be a lesson for the other members on this
list.

I wonder if in the future I will have the courage to open my mouth... I
doubt that my tidbits of information will be up to such lofty standards.

    Patrice.

PS: It might not be clear from the above, but I found James' post worth
being mailed on this list (and I hope he will keep doing it).

------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:32:42 -0800
Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism

On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 21:29:08 -0800  Jeff Spirer wrote:
>
> At 11:48 PM 11/21/96 -0500, [e-mail] wrote:
> >
> >In a message dated 11/21/96 10:30:21 PM, [e-mail] (Jeff Spirer)
> >wrote:
> >
> >>>It seems like just
> >>>recently has techno/jungle created enough compost for really interesting
> >>>artists to grow; i'm thinking of people like DJ Spooky (skip his liner
> >>>notes), DJ Shadow, Scanner, The Chemical Brothers.
> >>
> >>Most, if not all, of these people are related to the downtown music scene in
> >>one way or the other and the comment might reflect what one happens to
> >>listen to otherwise - I have found a lot of interesting stuff coming out of
> >>England and Germany in this genre for the last three or four years that I
> >>would say is equivalent of some of these artists.
> >
> >Huh? DJ Spooky, I'll give you. But the others? Scanner's an English guy named
> >Robin Rimbaud whose only vague connection to the downtown scene (as far as I
> >know) is playing on a couple mediocre records/jam sessions with David Shea
> >(and Robert Hampson of Main). The Chemical Brothers are also from England and
> >I know of no connection to the scene. Same goes for DJ Shadow, who hails from
> >California.
>
> Most of them play more in NYC than elsewhere.  I didn't comment on their
> origins, but they do seem to be part of that scene.  It's kind of like
> calling Bill Frisell downtown...
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Not even downtown Seattle, it seems :-).

    Patrice.

------------------------------

End of zorn-list Digest V2 #34
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