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1998-03-08
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From: Zorn List Digest
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 1997 8:49 PM
To: zorn-list-digest@xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #170
Zorn List Digest Wednesday, November 19 1997 Volume 02 : Number 170
In this issue:
-
Re: Frank Lowe
Sonny Sharrock
Re: Leng T'Che
Re: Milo Fine
Re: yada yada yada : 5 points
Re: Pigpen
Re: Leng T'Che
RE: "Don't ever piss of a pacifist"
Re: Sonny Sharrock
Re: Frank Lowe
Re: Pigpen
RE: The secret life of pacifists (was: "Don't ever piss of...)
Re: Leng T'Che (graphics)
Re: Frank Lowe
Re: Sonny Sharrock (and other Space Ghosts)
Re: Soundtracks by Christian Marclay
Re: Another question
Re: Leng T'Che
Re: Wynton does Ornette (and not very well) (was: Zorn's etc)
Re: Soundtracks by Christian Marclay
J.T. Lewis
Re: Leng T'Che
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:04:30 +0100
From: Stephane Vuilleumier <svuilleu@micro.biol.ethz.ch>
Subject: Re: Frank Lowe
This is the Zorn list I guess so...
I like this one better than the flam:
001 - LOWE & BEHOLD: The Frank Lowe Orchestra
1/ Heart In Hand Or (How Vain I Am) (Lowe) 13:58
2/ A Hipster's Dream (Lowe) 4:24
3/ Lowe-commotion (Lowe) 7:58
4/ Heavy Drama (Lowe) 12:49
Recorded in October 1977, New York City
Frank Lowe: tenor; Joseph Bowie: trombone; Lawrence "Butch" Morris: cornet;
Arthur Williams: trumpet; Billy Bang: violin; Polly Bradfield: violin;
Eugene Chadbourne: guitar; John Linberg: bass; Philip Wilson: drums, percus-
sion; John Zorn: alto; Peter Kuhn: clarinet and bass clarinet.
1978 - Musicworks, Musicworks 3002 (LP)
At 11:13 19.11.97 -0800, jasontors wrote:
>Speaking of monster Sax players, Frank Lowe was a pioneer in tweeking the
>emotional voice of the sax. I recently picked up his album from the 70's
>called The Flam. I find it to be a hefty brain jiggle.
>What do others think of this player?
>Any other suggestions for great Frank Lowe albums?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:37:51 -0500
From: KEVIN NEALES <kevinn@seis.com>
Subject: Sonny Sharrock
I recently saw a used C.D. by Bill Cosby and Friends(forgot the name of
it but it was from 1990) and was surprised to see Sonny Sharrock played
on one song. I didn't buy it because I thought it would be pretty lame.
Has anyone heard this? Also I really like the music Sonny Sharrock did
for the Space Ghost Coast to Coast show. Is this available on C.D.??
Thanks,
Kevin N.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:44:16 -0800
From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET>
Subject: Re: Leng T'Che
Tom Pratt wrote:
>
> With all of this talk of Naked City, I have to ask:
>
> Does anybody out there have a copy of LENG T'CHE that they would be
> willing to sell or know where I might be able to find a copy. Or has
> anyone seen a copy in their local record stores or used bins or what
> have you? I REALLY want a copy!!! I already own Torture Garden so I
> don't want to buy the Black Box. Thank you for any help!!!!
>
> listening to: Crispell/Brotzmann/Drake - Hyperion (Music & Arts)
>
> -Tom Pratt
>
> -
Can hardly sell you mine and I haven't seen it around in quite a while,
but just thought I'd add that, for my bucks, this is the most perfectly
realized, intense thing I've ever heard from Mr. Zorn. If ever a cover
photo and music contained therein have matched this powerfully and
exactly, I haven't heard it. If it's the only way you'll hear it, buy
the damned Black Box.
Brian O.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:49:32 -0800
From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET>
Subject: Re: Milo Fine
goodadam@quicklink.com wrote:
> can't remember the names of the other musicians--a guy playing tenor and
> an electric guitarist with really quirky technique. who are these guys?
> any chance that they're playing a gig on thanskgiving?
The guitarist might have been Steve Gnitka (think I'm spelling that
correctly). The two worked as a duo and had an interesting trio record
with Joe McPhee on hatHut back around 1978.
Brian O.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 19:46:16 -0800
From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET>
Subject: Re: yada yada yada : 5 points
Bob Kowalski wrote:
> 5. I've been on a treasure hunt for Michael Nyman recordings lately and
> also just recently purchased the new Gavin Bryars "Man in a Room,
> Gambling." Mentioning Zorn ...et al on the Nyman listserv gets minimal
> reaction (sorry- couldn't help that one.) How do all ya Zorn-o-philes like
> Nyman, Bryars and such? Just curious.
In addition to the more readily available Bryars items available, two
things worth searching out are 'Hommages' which came out around 1982 on
Les Disques du Crepuscule (I think it's been re-issued on disc),
featuring some lush, lovely pieces for what sounds like vibes, piano and
cymbals (no info, on instruments or players, is given on the sleeve) and
the first re-recording of 'Titanic', also on Les Disques, recorded in a
cistern in 1990--even better, IMHO, than the original and that's saying
a lot.
Brian O.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 11:12:44 +1100
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: Re: Pigpen
> >*** - DAYLIGHT: Pigpen
> >
> > 1/ Daylight (Horvitz)
> > 2/ V As In Victim (Horvitz)
Just curious, is track 2 the same version that appears on the album of the
same name?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 20:11:28 -0800
From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET>
Subject: Re: Leng T'Che
Julian wrote:
>
> > Can hardly sell you mine and I haven't seen it around in quite a while,
> > but just thought I'd add that, for my bucks, this is the most perfectly
> > realized, intense thing I've ever heard from Mr. Zorn. If ever a cover
> > photo and music contained therein have matched this powerfully and
> > exactly, I haven't heard it. If it's the only way you'll hear it, buy
> > the damned Black Box.
>
> Just out of interest, what is the cover photo?
Well, this subject was covered here in some detail a little while back
but, briefly, it's a photo taken in China in the 1920's (? I forget the
exact date) of an individual beginning to be sawed into pieces as
punishment for (again, as I recall) an assassination attempt on a local
prince. The expression on that man's face I can only inadequately
describe as horrific/ecstatic, just unforgetably mind and gut-wrenching.
A friend to whom I showed the CD was literally unable to sleep that
night! I have to give JZ credit for unearthing photos and illustrations
that are not merely grotesque, unhealthily erotic, etc. but that have
(usually) a goodly amount of resonance. I've often wondered about the
story behind the photo on 'Buried Secrets' (a pair of cuffed hands
lifting a skull out of the soil); it's a troubling, formally beautiful
image that implies an interesting narrative.
Brian O.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 19:52:50 -0500
From: rob ludington <dludington@enter.net>
Subject: RE: "Don't ever piss of a pacifist"
- ----------
From: Schwitterz[SMTP:mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us]
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 1997 4:27 PM
To: zorn-list@mail.xmission.com
Subject: Re: "Don't ever piss of a pacifist"
>But was the quote supposed to be
>
>"Don't ever piss off a pacifist"
>
>or
>
>"Don't ever piss on a pacifist"
>"Don't ever piss, pacifist."
Actually it is most likely: "Don't piss off a pissing pacifist."
Some things could be worse than a black eye; all depends on what your wearing..... ;)
- -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 20:05:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: Sonny Sharrock
On Wed, 19 Nov 1997, KEVIN NEALES wrote:
> Also I really like the music Sonny Sharrock did
> for the Space Ghost Coast to Coast show. Is this available on C.D.??
This was at one point available (for just postage, I think) from the
Cartoon Network. I don't know if that offer's still good.
Chris Hamilton
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 20:10:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: Frank Lowe
On Wed, 19 Nov 1997, Jason Tors wrote:
> Any other suggestions for great Frank Lowe albums?
The recent _Bodies & Soul_ on CIMP is less conceptual than some of Lowe's
other work, but it's a wonderfully played, passionate free jazz trio,
prominently featuring the late undersung drummer Charles Moffett. The
recording also captures the sound of live jazz (warts, inaudibilities, and
all) better than any other CD I've heard.
Chris Hamilton
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:32:54 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Pigpen
On Thu, 20 Nov 1997 11:12:44 +1100 "Julian" wrote:
>
> > >*** - DAYLIGHT: Pigpen
> > >
> > > 1/ Daylight (Horvitz)
> > > 2/ V As In Victim (Horvitz)
>
> Just curious, is track 2 the same version that appears on the album of the
> same name?
The same song, but a different recording.
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:36:05 +1100 (EST)
From: James Douglas Knox <jknox@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: RE: The secret life of pacifists (was: "Don't ever piss of...)
On Wed, 19 Nov 1997, rob ludington wrote:
> From: Schwitterz[SMTP:mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 1997 4:27 PM
>
> >"Don't ever piss off a pacifist"
Err; so maybe it would be OK to piss *on* a pacifist?
Not I go in for this golden shower stuff, you understand. But if you ask
nicely, anything is possible :-)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:43:56 +1100 (EST)
From: James Douglas Knox <jknox@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Leng T'Che (graphics)
On Wed, 19 Nov 1997, Brian Olewnick wrote:
> Julian wrote:
> >
> > Just out of interest, what is the cover photo?
>
> Well, this subject was covered here in some detail a little while back
> but, briefly, it's a photo taken in China in the 1920's (? I forget the
> exact date) of an individual beginning to be sawed into pieces as
> punishment for (again, as I recall) an assassination attempt on a local
> prince. The expression on that man's face I can only inadequately
She's a Chinese princess, and this was her punishment for treason. The
photos are taken from a book by George Bataille (can't think of the bloody
title, but its) published by City Lights (from memory).
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:54:47 +1100 (EST)
From: James Douglas Knox <jknox@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Frank Lowe
On Wed, 19 Nov 1997, Jason Tors wrote:
> Speaking of monster Sax players, Frank Lowe was a pioneer in tweeking the
> emotional voice of the sax. I recently picked up his album from the 70's
> called The Flam. I find it to be a hefty brain jiggle.
> What do others think of this player?
> Any other suggestions for great Frank Lowe albums?
>
Big fan of (what is maybe roughly contemporaneous w The Flam) Lowe's Black
Beings (saw the original ESP pressing earlier in the year - a mere $9).
Some very fine bellowing, an excellent ensemble cast, and readily
available on disc...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:58:20 +1100 (EST)
From: James Douglas Knox <jknox@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Sonny Sharrock (and other Space Ghosts)
On Wed, 19 Nov 1997, Christopher Hamilton wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Nov 1997, KEVIN NEALES wrote:
>
> > Also I really like the music Sonny Sharrock did
> > for the Space Ghost Coast to Coast show. Is this available on C.D.??
>
> This was at one point available (for just postage, I think) from the
> Cartoon Network. I don't know if that offer's still good.
>
Dunno anything about this Space Ghost character (no cable in my household
- - we're just poor students, you understand), but Sharrock is always
welcome at my hifi; and I dig those cartoon soundtracks! Can somebody clue
me up?
Cheers,
Jim
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 14:33:59 +1100 (EST)
From: James Douglas Knox <jknox@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Soundtracks by Christian Marclay
Missed the first one (No - stop kicking me - I am self-administering
beatings at this point) but caught the last two of three films by
Abigail Child last night. They were
Perils, 1986, 4min
Mayhem, 1987, 16min
Mercy, 1989, 10 min
constituting parts 5, 6 & 7 of a project called "Is This What You Were
Born For" (from a Goya etching in the Disasters of War series). All on
16mm.
Really fucking extraordinary and great stuff - a frenzied torrent of
(mostly) found-footage images, interrogating media imagery - dislocating
and subverting its meanings. It was compelling to see a filmmaker so
in command of their media: Child is a virtuoso, and employing a whole
arsenal of editing techniques. She cuts across motion better than
almost anyone ('cept maybe Svankmajer), and labours the composition of
the fragments into a satisfying and perfectly coherent finished work.
Definitely non-narrative, but there's an internal logic there that's
pretty clear to see.
And accompanying the images - "music" by Christian Marclay (plus a few
others). Dunno 'bout Perils, which I missed (but its listed in the back of
the 1990 Musique Actuelles catalogue with a Chris Marclay s/t), but Mayhem
used a quartet of Marclay, Charles K Noyes, Zeena Parkins and Shelley
Hirsch. The only credit on Mercy was for Hirsch's voice, tho' the music
was v much in the vein of Marclay (like; I'm definite it was him, only
inexplicably not credited). Some records he used, that I recognised: Les
Baxter's "Tamboo", Yma Sumac, and the BBC's wonderful "Off Beat Sound
Effects" LP.
The sound was perfectly sensitive to the visuals, and - as you've no doubt
guessed - equally destroyed. I mean, it was really swell - stunningly
great. I need more info on Marclay and this Child character both.
Still no more to hand on Marclay's other soundtrack ("Wax"?). But at this
point - there's almost enough material for him to have a disc of filmworks
himself (how 'bout it, Mista Zorn?).
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 22:50:59 -0500
From: Lang Thompson <wlt4@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Another question
***** The album(s) you're referring to are not the Ocean of Sound
compilations but four History of Ambient Music compilations that Virgin UK
put together about two or three years ago. (The title may actually have
just been Ambient but my CDs are mostly still boxed up after a move & I
can't confirm dates or titles.) Three of them were released in the US for
sure (I've even seen them for sale at Best Buy) but the one devoted to
"Isolationism" that got raves in The Wire was not as far as I know. The
two I heard were exactly as you described them with an intelligent mix of
older music that could be shoe-horned into the ambient label along with
bits of prog rock, experimentalists, etc though nobody particularly
obscure. They were all double-CDs but no book. LT
At 02:29 PM 11/19/97 UT, you wrote:
>Probably last year, somebody (or somebodies) mentioned a book/disc package
from
>Virgin Records that detailed the history of Ambient music and included early
>ambient pioneers like John Cage, Brian Eno, Tnagerine Dream, Kraftwerk and
the
>like, along with newer stuff. Does this ring any bells? Can anyone
refresh my
>memory?
>
>Thanks,
>Peter
>
>-
>
>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
Lang Thompson
http://members.aol.com/wlt4/index.htm
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 21:40:55 -0600
From: "Petsitter" <PETSITTER@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Leng T'Che
- ----------
> From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET>
> To: zorn-list@xmission.com
> Subject: Re: Leng T'Che
> Date: Wednesday, November 19, 1997 10:11 PM
>
> Julian wrote:
> >
> > > I've often wondered about the
> story behind the photo on 'Buried Secrets' (a pair of cuffed hands
> lifting a skull out of the soil); it's a troubling, formally beautiful
> image that implies an interesting narrative.
>
> Brian O.
I have also wondered about the story behing 'Buried Secrets.' If anyone
on the list knows, could they please share?
Jeff
>
> -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:11:27 +1100 (EST)
From: James Douglas Knox <jknox@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Wynton does Ornette (and not very well) (was: Zorn's etc)
On Wed, 19 Nov 1997 Dgasque@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 97-11-17 14:39:29 EST, you (punkjazz@snet.net) write:
>
> << End of Rant. >>
>
> And it was a well deserved one.
>
> jazz goings-on as many up NYC-ways. I am astounded how people such as
> Ornette Coleman, who have a resume' that dwarfs other musicians such as Mr.
> Marsalis- are still treated. Dosen't a musician's success in the history of
> jazz (or any other genre of music) count for anything, even in these days?
There was a horrible (leastways, for me) moment in the closing of Spike
Lee's Mo' Better Blues with the wretched Wynton turning in a total
travesty of Lonely Woman. And I am not so enamoured of the NC version, but
this was truly *VOM* inspiring; shorn of its plaintive keening, and all
those perfect right-wrong notes. No melancholy, no beauty - something so
meretriciously bland it could only be the work of that insensate zombie:
Wynton Marsalis.
I dunno; maybe I'm being a little too emotive about it?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 23:27:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: Soundtracks by Christian Marclay
On Thu, 20 Nov 1997, James Douglas Knox wrote:
> I need more info on Marclay
No info here, but the recent Atavistic comp _Records_ is chockful of great
80's Marclay tracks. Anyone interested in Marclay's solo work should
check it out.
Chris Hamilton
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:04:55 -0800
From: Jeff Spirer <jeffs@hyperreal.org>
Subject: J.T. Lewis
Well I asked this over on rec.music.bluenose, figuring it was more
appropriate there, but scored not one response.
I was really impressed by J. T. Lewis' drumming on Threadgill's most
recent, and maybe I have been living in a Skinner box, but the only other
recordings with Lewis that I am aware of are an early Material record and a
Donna Summer CD from around 1990. Just wondering what he has done in
between, before, after...
Jeff Spirer
Axiom/Material
http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 20:48:48 -0800
From: Jeff Spirer <jeffs@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Leng T'Che
At 08:11 PM 11/19/97 -0800, Brian Olewnick wrote:
>night! I have to give JZ credit for unearthing photos and illustrations
>that are not merely grotesque, unhealthily erotic, etc. but that have
>(usually) a goodly amount of resonance.
If one wants to find these images, it is not so hard, especially in New
York.
I have recently purchased books of morgue photos, police crime scene
photos, and most chilling, photos of the catacombs of Palermo.
Most of these would look just fine on a Naked City CD.
What Zorn has done well is match the photos to the contents of the packages
they adorn.
Jeff Spirer
Axiom/Material
http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #170
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