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1998-03-08
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From: Zorn List Digest
Sent: Saturday, November 15, 1997 9:03 AM
To: zorn-list-digest@xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #158
Zorn List Digest Saturday, November 15 1997 Volume 02 : Number 158
In this issue:
-
Re: In Need of NEW music.
Re: In Need of NEW music.
re: in need of NEW music.
Re: in need of NEW music.
Wynton/Blues
Re: Cecil wannabe
Improv Ensembles
Re: In Need of NEW music.
Re: In Need of NEW music.
Re: Wynton/Blues
Zorn Scores
Re: Zorn's influences (Wynton content)
Re: Zorn's influences (Wynton content) *ARE YOU KIDDING*
Re: Zorn's influences (Wynton content)
Re: Wynton=Death, Zorn=Sex, +the blues
San Francisco improv music calendar
Re: In Need of NEW music.
re: in need of NEW music.
Re: "Too much music" is never enough!
Re: Zorn's influences (Wynton content) *ARE YOU KIDDING*
Re: Wynton/Blues
Improv Evening Last Night
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 13:01:41 -0800
From: "Schwitterz" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Re: In Need of NEW music.
61 Coltrane Village Vanguard (I missed that discussion)
David Thomas--Monster box
Joe McPhee Po Music--Linear B
Arcana--Arc of the Testimony
Bob Dylan--Time Out Of Mind
Has anyone heard the Bergmann/Braxton/Brotzmann trio CD?
sZ
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 17:14:52 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: In Need of NEW music.
On Fri, 14 Nov 1997 15:52:54 -0500 Tom Pratt wrote:
>
> Jason Tors wrote:
> >
> > Hello All,
> > I have been lurking for a while, making some comments here and
> > there. Since today is pay-day I was wondering if folks could suggest their
> > recent prize CD purchase.
> > Private or public,
> > J.
>
> My prize find has been the solo violin album by Carlos Zingaro simply
> entitled 'Solo' on the in situ label in France. If you have any interest
> in solo violin at all, you need to check this guy out! I believe all the
> tunes are live improvisations recorded in some church. Really beautiful
> music. It COMPLETELY blows Mark Feldman's 'Music For Violin Alone' on
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Does it imply that they are competing for the very same kind of music and,
for such a reason, that ordering them in terms of value makes sense?
This is not a malicious question because I don't know at all the record
Tom is talking about (but I have seen Zingaro few times and know that he
is a very good improviser).
Tom, what do you think of Phil Wachsman? I have the impression that he
never released a solo violin record?
Patrice.
> Tzadik out of the water (and I like that disc quite a bit). This guy has
> FRIGHTENING technique. You can find more about Zingaro at the European
> Free Improvisers Page at http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/ and the
> page specifically on Zingaro at
> http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/mzingaro.html. If you don't think
> solo violin is your thing, check the page anyway because it has a
> listing of other recordings he's done with various groups. See ya!
>
> -Tom Pratt
>
> -
>
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 20:35:01 -0500
From: "Jason J. Tar" <tarjason@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: re: in need of NEW music.
My recent acquisitions of fun are:
Ground Zero _Plays Standards_ (finally found it in the US...both Forced
Exposure and Bent Crayon have it in, with FE being slightly cheaper!)
Flare _Re-Grip_ Ken Ishii's side project of more experimental techno,
getting even more experimental due to mixes by fellow Japanese artists
including yamataka EYE.
Audio Sports _Era of Glittering Gas_ Rap band fronted by Yamataka Eye (of
the Boredoms)...oddly interesting!
And hopefully soon my copy of _Death of Cool_ will show up, which is a 2lp
set compilation of really oddball stuff including country and western dub,
and tracks by the Spymania crew. Compiled and put out by Si Begg.
Maybe something there might interest you?
- ---
Peace Hugs and Unity Jason J. Tar
W. W. J. D?
(What would Jason Do?)
http://pilot.msu.edu/user/tarjason
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 17:40:58 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: in need of NEW music.
On Fri, 14 Nov 1997 20:35:01 -0500 "Jason J. Tar" wrote:
>
> My recent acquisitions of fun are:
> Ground Zero _Plays Standards_ (finally found it in the US...both Forced
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Really looking for that one. What are your first impression?
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 19:38:19 -0800
From: David Slusser <slusser@pixar.com>
Subject: Wynton/Blues
sZ wrote:
>What does Marsalis teach regarding the place of the music discussed on this
>list?
He has not spoken disrespectfully of the avant-garde; he just places it in the
European 20th century classical tradition. Tellingly, he places many black
non-mainstream improvisers in that tradition as well. I think he gets into
trouble with the roots quotient that j. ross brings up below. Personally
I'm relieved that somebody black is pontificating on what is or isn't jazz
for a change.
How's this for provocative-
Flirting with racial politics, a friend and I got into a cynical, sick
reductionist extrapolation that much "black" artistic expression is
concerned
with sex, while much "white" art is about death. (Zorn?)
j. ross wrote:
> Anway I was wondering if anyone has any comments on the
>relationship of blues to avant-gard, and if they could recommend
>anyone in this area to check out.....
I recommend Julius Hemphil's "The Hard Blues"
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 22:58:12 -0500
From: James Hale <jhale@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Cecil wannabe
Tom Pratt wrote:
>
> > how about with Cecil instead of one of many Cecil wannabees?
>
> Are there any free pianists out there you would NOT consider to be a
> Cecil wannabe? I ask this question inquisitively not accusingly because
> I've found the exact same thing (with Crispell in particular).
Irene Schweizer
Misha Mengelberg
Satoko Fujii
Matt Shipp
.. for starters.
James Hale
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 15:43:35 +1100
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: Improv Ensembles
> IS ANYONE FROM THE BOSTON AREA LOOKING TO JOIN, FORM OR PLAY WITH AN
> AVANT MPROV ENSEMBLE.
Hey, same question for Sydney Australia.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 01:25:04 -0500 (EST)
From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: In Need of NEW music.
> My prize find has been the solo violin album by Carlos Zingaro simply
> entitled 'Solo' on the in situ label in France. If you have any interest
> in solo violin at all, you need to check this guy out! I believe all the
> tunes are live improvisations recorded in some church. Really beautiful
> music. It COMPLETELY blows Mark Feldman's 'Music For Violin Alone' on
> Tzadik out of the water (and I like that disc quite a bit). This guy has
> FRIGHTENING technique. You can find more about Zingaro at the European
have you heard Gidon Kremer's recording of the six sonatas for solo violin
by Eugene Ysaye? You may want to if you haven't already...obviously not
improv, but definitely frightening...
- -jascha
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 01:45:10 -0500 (EST)
From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: In Need of NEW music.
> > > I have been lurking for a while, making some comments here and
> > > there. Since today is pay-day I was wondering if folks could suggest their
> > > recent prize CD purchase.
> > > Private or public,
here's an odd one:
'The Silver Apples'...were a band in the late 60's, only two members. One
played a gigantic drum kit (5 or 6 cymbals, many toms, etc...) and the
other guy played a home-made synth made out of 78 differently tuned
osscilators which he played with his hands, knees, elbows, head,
feet....he apparantly surrounded himself with them when they played live.
The odd part is that the music, despite being made by a couple of hippies
30 ago sounds amazingly like techno. The rhythms and synth textures are
uncannily modern sounding, to me, right down to the little drum breaks....
but every once and a while the two of them will break into folky-style
two-part harmony singing. Strange. This CD asctually made my friend's
jaw drop in shock. And then came the song with the banjo...
(I don't know the label; the CD is self-titled, though, if that helps.)
They were very ahead of thier time. Maybe they found the *good* acid....
:)
- -jascha
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 02:01:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: Wynton/Blues
On Fri, 14 Nov 1997, David Slusser wrote:
> Flirting with racial politics, a friend and I got into a cynical, sick
> reductionist extrapolation that much "black" artistic expression is
> concerned
> with sex, while much "white" art is about death. (Zorn?)
That just seems silly. A lot of the best art, regardless of ethnicity, is
about both. The most death-obsessed current musician I can think of is
Henry Threadgill, who's black.
Chris Hamilton
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 03:05:17 EST
From: gsg@juno.com (Geoff S Gersh)
Subject: Zorn Scores
> I've emailed Tzadik as well as several unofficial John Zorn home page
> oweners, but no luck yet--who publishes his scores?!
BMI publishes all of Zorn's work....if you go to their web site they have
a list of allll of his compositions. everything from Naked City to Masada
to string quartets, etc etc
try giving them a call
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 11:11:41 GMT
From: "Ockham's stubble" <boshuck@triples.math.mcgill.ca>
Subject: Re: Zorn's influences (Wynton content)
On Thu, 13 Nov 1997, Ockham's stubble wrote:
> 2) Even if
> this is true in some sense, why is that a good thing if the
> music wasn't that good?
> you're joking. regardless of your take on the vsop group, their
> being a lead to miles 60's quintet is one why, full stop.
But have they actually led many people to the 60's Davis group? That was
my question, and it's not a joke. I don't have a problem with the
Marsalis stuff as music; I'm just doubtful that the "It leads people to
better music" defense is any more apt in Marsalis's case than in Kenny
G's.
Chris Hamilton
of course not (to the many question). that was pointed out by whoever
immersed mainstream in scare-quotes. the obvious difference between
vsop and kg is that members of vsop were members of the second
quintet. if you're asking for statistics, i've no payload (and
anyways, statistics isn't real math); but i wonder how many people (on
this list, say) would be inclined to, upon digging an album, check out
other albums with most of the band members common. cheers,
- -b(who's not advocating marsalis)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 19:37:40 +1100 (EST)
From: James Douglas Knox <jknox@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Zorn's influences (Wynton content) *ARE YOU KIDDING*
Wynton on the zorn-list?
"Some people are so open-minded, their brains fall out"
(I dunno who said it, someone...)
Isn't part of the problem with Wynton that he held a conservative
stranglehold over the programming of music at the Lincoln Centre for many
years?
Also: that his music is just fucking passe'. I mean, c'mon; Zappa is one
thing - but this guy is just a freakin' Glenn Miller in black-face! I
mean: *VOM*!!!!!!!
Where is that wrathful Jehohovah-of-yore when we need him - to smite these
turkeys who worship at the dais of this gilded-bovine-bullstuff!
On Fri, 14 Nov 1997, JRZ wrote:
> At 12:03 AM 11/14/97 -0500, you wrote:
> >
> >On Thu, 13 Nov 1997, Ockham's stubble wrote:
> (snip)
>
> Most of the interesting Jazz made today is just not accesible to the
> average music fan.
I dunno who this "average" person is - politicians and market analysts
talk about him/her a lot, but I've never met him/her. And damn glad I am
of it - he/she sounds like a real fuckwit!
> People aren't going to make the jump from "No Doubt" to
> today's avant garde improv type music. They need to jump back a few decades
> and work their way forward,
You need to qualify this generalisation - its patently wrong. I discovered
Zorn via his work with Diamanda Galas on the Big Gundown; and I knew a
whole-crew of long-haired metal-heads who found their entre to free jazz
thru' Zorn's Painkiller and Naked City (which was near enough to my own
path)...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 19:39:23 +1100 (EST)
From: James Douglas Knox <jknox@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Zorn's influences (Wynton content)
On Fri, 14 Nov 1997, Schwitterz wrote:
>
> What does Marsalis teach regarding the place of the music discussed on this
> list?
>
and who cares?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 20:00:33 +1100 (EST)
From: James Douglas Knox <jknox@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Wynton=Death, Zorn=Sex, +the blues
On Fri, 14 Nov 1997, David Slusser wrote:
> How's this for provocative-
> Flirting with racial politics, a friend and I got into a cynical, sick
> reductionist extrapolation that much "black" artistic expression is
> concerned
> with sex, while much "white" art is about death. (Zorn?)
That's just fucking stupid. Zorn's work is certainly a lot more *sexy*
than Marsalis' - leastway to these ears.
> > > j. ross wrote: > > Anway
I was wondering if anyone has any comments on the > >relationship of blues
to avant-gard, and if they could recommend > >anyone in this area to check
out.....
I've always dug Ayler a real lot - there's a strong blues connection
in his stuff.
As for blues per se: there's a really wonderful disc (on Smithsonian
Folkways?) of fife and drum music; featuring that great tapp-dancing
drummer, Napoleon Strickland. Like no blues you ever heard; and like no
blues most so-called fans of the genre would recognise as such. And not so
far away from collective free improvisation...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 01:01:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Matsumoto <wedge@slip.net>
Subject: San Francisco improv music calendar
Sorry to dump the list back into 'advertising mode', but ...
I've revived the Bay Area Creative Music calendar that was run by
Clay Glad, a DJ at Stanford University. The calendar covers improv
and avant-jazz shows around San Francisco and Oakland, Calif.,
and gives a few details on some of the more common venues for
this type of music.
This calendar was the way I discovered Tim Berne was visiting the
area, which led me to see him live, which led me to become a real
fan of this type of music. Which led me to the Zorn mailing list
several months ago.
The calendar is not a commercial venture; I plan to get nothing out of
it but headaches and carpal tunnel syndrome. In return, maybe this
music will find its way to a few more willing ears.
So please check it out: http://www.slip.net/~wedge/gigs.html
Thanks for reading; we now return you to your normal discussion.
- -- Craig Matsumoto
wedge@slip.net
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 04:41:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Dgasque@aol.com
Subject: Re: In Need of NEW music.
In a message dated 97-11-14 22:48:50 EST, you write:
<< Great new finds:
Base of Fiction, (self-titled)
Happy Family, Toscco
Optical*8, Germ
Univers Zero, Heresie
Miles Davis, Live-Evil (remastered) >>
Do indeed pick up the first s/t'ed Happy Family CD too.
All of UZ's material is incredible too. After you're through with the UZ
catalog, move into Present (two studio CDs/one live CD) and then on to Art
Zoyd (especially now- since the early LPs/CDs are back in print- who knows
for how long though...)
=dgasque=
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 05:42:35 -0500
From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey)
Subject: re: in need of NEW music.
"Jason J. Tar" <tarjason@pilot.msu.edu> wrote:
>Ground Zero _Plays Standards_ (finally found it in the US...both Forced
>Exposure and Bent Crayon have it in, with FE being slightly cheaper!)
And don't forget DMG, who've had the best deal
by far (I believe) ... $19 ppd via UPS! ;-)
- -Patrick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 17:51:52 +1100 (EST)
From: James Douglas Knox <jknox@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: "Too much music" is never enough!
"If music be the food of love - play on. Give me excess of it!"
- - Wild Bill Shakespeare
On Thu, 6 Nov 1997, Ash Doyle wrote:
> I am amused by the people who have been commenting that musicians
> in this genre have been putting out too many recordings. These
> comments seem bordering on complaint. You should be glad that the
> musicians you enjoy are putting out recordings reguarly and so
Oh; the actual volume of the music being released is cause for nothing but
happiness - I can only hope it increases. My whinging was (or
was intended to be; y'know, I get a bit inchoate at the best of
times) specifically directed to the fact that Zorn hasn't radically
altered his style in, oh, six months now :-)
I got no doubt I'd feel a lot less impatient if I was ctually in a postion
to hear him playing. I dunno.
cheers,
Jim
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 05:17:26 -0800
From: "Schwitterz" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Zorn's influences (Wynton content) *ARE YOU KIDDING*
JD Knox posted:
>Wynton on the zorn-list?
>
>"Some people are so open-minded, their brains fall out"
>
>(I dunno who said it, someone...)
>
>Isn't part of the problem with Wynton that he held a conservative
>stranglehold over the programming of music at the Lincoln Centre for many
>years?
>
>Also: that his music is just fucking passe'. I mean, c'mon; Zappa is one
>thing - but this guy is just a freakin' Glenn Miller in black-face! I
>mean: *VOM*!!!!!!!
>
>Where is that wrathful Jehohovah-of-yore when we need him - to smite these
>turkeys who worship at the dais of this gilded-bovine-bullstuff!
_____________________________________________________________
In your previous post you asked, "Who cares?"
After reading this post, I would have to answer, "James Douglas Knox cares."
sZ
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 08:24:38 -0800
From: Jeff Spirer <jeffs@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Wynton/Blues
At 07:38 PM 11/14/97 -0800, David Slusser wrote:
>How's this for provocative-
>Flirting with racial politics, a friend and I got into a cynical, sick
>reductionist extrapolation that much "black" artistic expression is
>concerned
>with sex, while much "white" art is about death. (Zorn?)
I take it you are both white...
Jeff Spirer
Axiom/Material
http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 12:00:58 EST
From: chasinthetrane@juno.com (James T Graves)
Subject: Improv Evening Last Night
I was lucky enough to catch both sets of Zorn's improv evening at the
Knitting Factory. The improvisations were hit and miss, with plenty
memorable pieces and a few forgettable ones. However, I was wondering if
anyone knew the names of all the players there. I recognized Eyvind Kang
and Anthony Coleman, but the rest were new to me. I particularly liked
one of the guitarists. The guy had a really sci-fi sound that really
appealled to me. I don't have much else to go on but that, but if anyone
knows who the mystery man is, please email me.
Jamie
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #158
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