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1998-03-08
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From: Zorn List Digest
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 1997 8:08 PM
To: zorn-list-digest@xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #155
Zorn List Digest Wednesday, November 12 1997 Volume 02 : Number 155
In this issue:
-
Re: vernon reid / ronald shannon jackson
Re: d'n'b recommendations was (Re:Bailey & d'n'b)
Re: Absinthe, Praxis
Sigillum S
chapin
Re: chapin
Re: d'n'b recommendations was (Re:Bailey & d'n'b)
Zorn's influences/DimSumClipJob PROMO
correction
Parachute Years / Jungle Brothers
Re: chorus >> Maurizio Kagel
Duras:Duchamp
Re: Zorn's influences
Re: chorus >> Maurizio Kagel
Re: Zorn's influences
Re: Zorn's influences
Sigillum S.
Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #154
Re: Zorn's influences (Wynton content)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 12:15:07 -0500
From: Richard Williams <punkjazz@snet.net>
Subject: Re: vernon reid / ronald shannon jackson
David Newgarden wrote:
>
> As a teen, I was 'way into' those Ronald Shannon Jackson Decoding Society
> albums with Vernon Reid (especially Barbeque Dog) - haven't heard 'em in
> years and wonder if they sound extremely dated?
Actually, its worn pretty well.
>Jackson made a wonderful
> solo drum/voice album (can't remember the name) that I'll bet has held up
> better over the years simply for lack of electric instruments.
I think it was called Pulse, and was on OAO/Celluloid, Great record!
>
> I saw quite a few of the last Living Colour (jazz trio) gigs
One thing I remember about the early Living Color gigs were how poorly
they were attended. I can remember one gig at 7th Ave South when 20
people showed up for the 1st set, and for the 2nd, it was just me and a
few friends of the band.(They still burned!)
> For a couple of years when
> he was completely absent from New York clubs, I got to hear a lot of
> solo Shannon because we had adjacent rehearsal rooms (in a crumbling
> Garment District building) I particularly remember one late late night,
> hearing hours of amazing wailing on a weird metal reed instrument (with 8
> or 10 protruding bells) that he called the "Boschorn" (as in Hieronymus).
I know the place. I once spent the better part of an afternoon, slumped
against the hallway wall, with my mouth open and my ears burning,
listening to Shannon and Laswell doing improvised bass/drum duets there.
A welcome respite after having gone to the building to hear(what turned
out to be) a very pedestrian jazz group.
Rich
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 12:40:40 -0500
From: eric ong <eso200@is5.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: d'n'b recommendations was (Re:Bailey & d'n'b)
>I'm still looking for experimental and/or fast stuff
>in drum n' bass but keep being disappointed.
the beats aren't the messiest, and the redundancy disappointingly shines in
some instances, but check out the "Time" and "Strange or Funny; ha ha"
releases by Bisk. they both have their noise moments, Zorn moments
(cross-genre quoting), AMM moments, etc etc...should satisy what you're
looking for...
eric.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 10:16:57 -0800
From: Jeff Spirer <jeffs@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Absinthe, Praxis
At 10:58 PM 11/10/97 -0500, R=E9mi Bissonnette wrote:
>Secondly, there was a rumor a while back about the next Praxis studio CD,
>in that it would feature (besides the usual people, i.e. Brain, Laswell,
>Buckethead) the likes of Justin Broadrick, Kevin Martin and Page Hamilton.
>Currently, the last I've heard about the project was that Brain had left to
>play with Primus, was replaced by Cindy Blackman, and apparently the new CD
>will feature her plus Laswell, Buckethead and some DJs, but not the three
>others mentionned earlier. Does anybody know why this change took place?
>Was the old rumor just something that was thrown around for some time and
>never really took off?
That project was planned for SubMeta. When Caroline tanked SubMeta, the
project went on hold and other things happened, Praxis mutated a little,
.. so that will not happen.
Jeff Spirer
Axiom/Material
http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/
- -
------------------------------
Date:
From: Sean Terwilliger <seanter@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Sigillum S
Has anyone heard this CD. It seems to be part one of a 3 CD set. Is it
worth getting? Is BL on it?
Thanks
- -Sean
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 10:55:29 PST
From: "Jonas Thompson" <swinginjoe@hotmail.com>
Subject: chapin
pardon my ignorance, but what happened with thomas chapin? the knit site
says something about a concert "for the healing of thomas chapin."
doesn't sound good.
also, has anyone checked out the brand new bloodcount yet? the unwound
set was pretty decent stuff. is the line-up the same?
thx,
jonas
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 15:24:58 -0500
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: chapin
Jonas Thompson wrote:
> pardon my ignorance, but what happened with thomas chapin? the knit
> site
> says something about a concert "for the healing of thomas chapin."
> doesn't sound good.
Thomas is seriously ill and has been for some time. But he has been in
good spirits and if anyone has the spirit to get well it's him. Send
him your positive feelings, wherever you are.
> also, has anyone checked out the brand new bloodcount yet? the
> unwound
> set was pretty decent stuff. is the line-up the same?
The lineup is the same.
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 12:54:25 -0800
From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel)
Subject: Re: d'n'b recommendations was (Re:Bailey & d'n'b)
At 12:10 PM 11/11/97, Stephane Vuilleumier wrote:
>I'm still looking for experimental and/or fast stuff
>in drum n' bass but keep being disappointed.
>
>Alec Empire's stuff on Mille Plateaux is still the most stupidly
>gratifying Naked City-like material around to me (sometimes),
>but I wish there would be something on the non-punk experimental
>(should I say Absinthe?) side of things that maybe you still could dance to...
>The closest I've come up with recently was the Spring Heel Jack record
>"busy curious thirsty", but I could definitely do with more experimentalism
>in it. Apparently, for reviewers of that kind of music, this is already
>very experimental.
>
>Any suggestions?
>
>Stephane Vuilleumier
I agree that the ultimate avant-jazz/drum 'n' bass fusion hasn't yet been
achieved, though it seems so obvious. The closest I've found is a few
things on the Ninja Tune label, Funki Porcini's "Love, Pussycats and Car
Wrecks", ands Cujo's "Adventures in Foam".
________________________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/
"...there will come a day when you won't have to use
gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in
your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper
type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em
together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em
together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire."
-Sun Ra
________________________________________________________
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 14:25:16 PST
From: "Ted Reichman" <katahdin@hotmail.com>
Subject: Zorn's influences/DimSumClipJob PROMO
Zorn's Influences Polemic thread:
>"Also: I tend to think that the construction of any kind of community
>must be premised on re-forging links to the past; acknowledging our
>shared debt both to each other, and to those those who've passed. >And
for me; this is- - in part at least - the essence of what Zorn's >about.
Its a truly wonderful thing, and so bloody rare in contemporary
>culture."
What you're saying is interesting (and I should add that I agree), but
be careful, it may not be as rare as you think- it's also the "essence"
of what Wynton Marsalis & Stanley Crouch _say_ they're about.
Dim Sum Clip Job Thread:
if anyone's in the area and wants to experience them first hand, DSCJ
will be appearing with my Quartet (and at some point I will appear with
DimSum) this Friday night at Bard College in Annandale-on-Hudson NY.
Bard Hall 9:00 pm. Their sax player Gordon Knauer (aka Dorgon) recently
released a CD of duos with William Parker which is pretty mind-altering.
It includes a Nirvana cover. And JZ completists take note- Zorn
produced the DimSum Avant CD which also includes performances by Chris
Cochrane & Kenny Wollesen with the regular DimSum cast of characters.
I say more polemic, less Zappa/Gentle Giant.
- -Ted
(hoping that this will not inspire the dreaded "Wynton" thread)
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 14:31:28 PST
From: "Ted Reichman" <katahdin@hotmail.com>
Subject: correction
Actually the Reichman/Dim Sum show at Bard starts at 8:00 sharp
sorry,
Ted
(damn this Hotmail window is small!)
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 16:18:57 -0700
From: Phil <phil@clarksonp.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Parachute Years / Jungle Brothers
Has anyone digested the Parachute Years box enough to give a review for
those of us who are still wondering whether to part with a lot of cash for
a set?
Also, I was looking back at an interview with the Jungle Brothers in an old
copy of The Wire magazine, which mentions the JB's work with Bill Laswell
after their 2nd album. The tracks were considered too extreme by their
record company & rejected, and were later reworked into the J Beez Cit The
Remedy album. The original tracks were bootlegged as The Crazy Wisdom
Masters. Has anyone heard these? The Jungle Brothers appear on the first
Valis CD - I was wondering if the unreleased stuff was similar.
Cheers,
Phil Clarkson
phil@clarksonp.demon.co.uk
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 10:29:04 +1100 (EST)
From: James Douglas Knox <jknox@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: chorus >> Maurizio Kagel
thinking some more on this over the weekend. Start of the Radio Hour
promo disc, Zorn plays a little bit of stuff of Maurizio Kagel. I know
absolutely nothing about Kagel, but I'm figuring he might fit the below
bill pretty well. I remember seeing an LP of his, apparently w a heap of
kids 'singing' the vocal parts and 'playing' instruments. Seemed like it
might 've been cool - but way more than I could afford to pay. Does anyone
know any more? Is there stuff out of disc?
> On Thu, 6 Nov 1997, Tom Pratt wrote:
>
> > I'm looking to find some 20th century vocal music. I have heard a few
> > pieces for chorus by Penderecki and really liked them.
> >
> > Perhaps there is a CD out there by a chorus performing various works by
> > 20th century composers?????? Thanks.
"To be a good revolutionary, we must pass all our academic exams"
- Dusan Makaveyev
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 18:14:34 -0500
From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net>
Subject: Duras:Duchamp
I've had this disc for a while and REALLY enjoy it. I was just wondering
if anyone knows anything about the compositional process and what Zorn
was trying to achieve with each piece. Are these simply "tributes" to
Duras and Duchamp or was Zorn attempting to depict some of their art
through music? Anybody have anything at all???
-Tom Pratt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 10:56:49 +1100 (EST)
From: James Douglas Knox <jknox@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Zorn's influences
On Tue, 11 Nov 1997, Ted Reichman wrote:
> Zorn's Influences Polemic thread:
>
> >"Also: I tend to think that the construction of any kind of community
> >must be premised on re-forging links to the past; acknowledging our
> >shared debt both to each other, and to those those who've passed. >And
> for me; this is- - in part at least - the essence of what Zorn's >about.
> Its a truly wonderful thing, and so bloody rare in contemporary
> >culture."
>
> What you're saying is interesting (and I should add that I agree), but
> be careful, it may not be as rare as you think- it's also the "essence"
> of what Wynton Marsalis & Stanley Crouch _say_ they're about.
>
Yeah - I think I share that dread in at least equal measure; Lilith forbid
I should ever advocate for this turkey! These guys are cultural
taxidermists - their idea of culture is like a mausoleum at the better end
of the cemetery. But people like Zorn - also Sun Ra, and in different
field, the Brothers Quay (plus very many others) - recognise their debt to
a tradition without being totally bankrupt by it. They're elaborating on
it, y'know, building something new out of it.
Cheers,
Jim
> (hoping that this will not inspire the dreaded "Wynton" thread)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 17:41:03 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: chorus >> Maurizio Kagel
On Wed, 12 Nov 1997 10:29:04 +1100 (EST) James Douglas Knox wrote:
>
> thinking some more on this over the weekend. Start of the Radio Hour
> promo disc, Zorn plays a little bit of stuff of Maurizio Kagel. I know
> absolutely nothing about Kagel, but I'm figuring he might fit the below
> bill pretty well. I remember seeing an LP of his, apparently w a heap of
> kids 'singing' the vocal parts and 'playing' instruments. Seemed like it
> might 've been cool - but way more than I could afford to pay. Does anyone
> know any more? Is there stuff out of disc?
Kagel is with Boulez, Stockhausen and Xenakis, one of the main contemporary
composers active in Europe in the '60s-'70s.
It seems that very few major Kagel works are available on record. Most of
his important pieces were released on DG in the late '60s, early '70s.
These compositions were:
Acoustica
Staattheater
Ludwig Van
Der Schall
Exotica
To my knowledge, only Exotica has been reissued.
Many Kagel records are available on the French label Montaigne, but nobody
seems very excited about them (which represent his '80s and '90s productions).
I remember that in the '70s, it was impossible to have an avant-garde festival
in Europe without a Kagel creation. It is only during the mid-'80s that I
realized that he was not as much in demand (to use an understatement). Never
really tried to understand what happened to him and the reason why he kind of
fell in disgrace (could it be the usual lot of any over-hyped artist? because
he was really *HYPED* in the '70s).
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 09:36:21 -0500
From: "Chris Barrett" <cbarrett@neaq.org>
Subject: Re: Zorn's influences
>>
>> What you're saying is interesting (and I should add that I agree), but
>> be careful, it may not be as rare as you think- it's also the "essence"
>> of what Wynton Marsalis & Stanley Crouch _say_ they're about.
>>
>
>Yeah - I think I share that dread in at least equal measure; Lilith forbid
>I should ever advocate for this turkey! These guys are cultural
>taxidermists
Ok, ok, I'll play devil's advocate here. Say what you will about Wynton
(and I know we all have a lot to say about him), but the one up side is
that back in the early to mid 80's, when it seemed any sort of acoustic
jazz (or almost any acoustic music) seemed to be doomed to a slow, painful
death as the dreaded Smooth Jazz was developing (hello David S. and that
curly haired, unshaven looser), Wynton did bring acoustic Jazz back to the
mainstream, and he wasn't one of the "dinosaurs" (before someone says
something, I like the "dinosaurs") that had been around since at least the
sixties. Whatever he mutated too, and whatever he hasn't added to the
genre at least he helped preserve a piece of it for some of younger folks
to discover what we had missed.
(That doesn't mean we should like him) :)
- -Chris
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 06:51:28 -0800
From: "Schwitterz" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Zorn's influences
>
>Ok, ok, I'll play devil's advocate here. Say what you will about Wynton
Okay, I'll say that he is one hell of a trumpet technician and that he has
his place in music history, but that he is as inflated as hell and not much
of an innovator. I have no quarrel with him having his place, but he
preaches that his place is the only place. Laughable.
sZ
- -
------------------------------
Date:
From: Sean Terwilliger <seanter@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Sigillum S.
I'm seeking information on this CD. I understand it's part of a 3cd set.
Is it in itself a full length CD? Is Laswell on it at all? Is it good?
Thanks,
Sean
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 19:49:34 +0100
From: mperlson@interport.net (Mark Perlson)
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #154
>
>I was wondering, did Naked City ever perform songs from Absinthe live? If
>not, could it have been done, or was this recording too much of a sound
>collage to be reproduced in a live context?
Zorn did perform it live. It was at the Musiktrinalle (sic) Festival in
K=F6ln, Germany at the huge, amazing state of the art modern concert hall
next door to the Dam in K=F6ln, I can't remember what it is called. This wa=
s
in the summer of 1994. An amazing concert. I remember David Shea, Wayne
Horvitz, Marc Ribot, Fred Frith, and several others on stage with John
conducting. It was an amazing piece. Ribot played this guitar solo that
was sublime. This long passage blended in so well with what was going on
that I didn't even realize it was a that it had happened until John
announced "Marc Ribot on guitar" after the movement. I remember thinking
back to what had just happended musically and being totally floored with
the realization what they had just done. And this concert was in the most
beautiful space, usually reserved for symphonies and such. A string
quartet also played a piece (Forbidden Fruit I think) and there was a short
game piece as well.
Later that night Painkiller played at the Statgarten and I almost lost my
hearing.
A good night of music and German beer.
Mark Perlson
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 22:58:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: Zorn's influences (Wynton content)
On Wed, 12 Nov 1997, Chris Barrett wrote:
> back in the early to mid 80's, when it seemed any sort of acoustic
> jazz (or almost any acoustic music) seemed to be doomed to a slow, painful
> death as the dreaded Smooth Jazz was developing (hello David S. and that
> curly haired, unshaven looser), Wynton did bring acoustic Jazz back to the
> mainstream,
Two questions: 1) Which mainstream is that? So far as I know, no acoustic
jazz record has made the pop charts in the last thirty years. 2) Even if
this is true in some sense, why is that a good thing if the music wasn't
that good?
> Whatever he mutated too, and whatever he hasn't added to the
> genre at least he helped preserve a piece of it for some of younger folks
> to discover what we had missed.
I suspect that the big labels would have taken advantage of the CD boom to
reissue back catalog anyway.
> (That doesn't mean we should like him) :)
(shrug) I think he's pretty decent myself. He's just incredibly
overhyped.
Chris Hamilton
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #155
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