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From:     Zorn List Digest
Sent:     Tuesday, November 11, 1997 8:33 AM
To:     [e-mail]
Subject:     Zorn List Digest V2 #154


Zorn List Digest      Tuesday, November 11 1997      Volume 02 : Number 154



In this issue:
-
       Re: Vernon Reid
       Re: Plunderphonics re-issue(s)
       Re: Xenakis/Zorn
       Absinthe, Praxis
       Re: Vernon Reid
       Re: opening acts?
       Re: Zorn's *influences* as historical continuity (Danger! polemic!)
       Re: Absinthe, Praxis
       re: vernon reid / ronald shannon jackson
       Re: Country Music In The World Of Post-Modernism
       Re: vernon reid / ronald shannon jackson
       Re: Vernon Reid
       Re: pigpen
       Re: d'n'b recommendations was (Re:Bailey & d'n'b)
       delete
       Re: patton
       Re: vernon reid / ronald shannon jackson

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 18:33:07 -0500
From: Tom Pratt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Vernon Reid

about Living Colour guitarist Vernon Ried:

> He also has performed many one-off gigs with High School chum Melvin Gibbs.

and Melvin Gibbs plays in the Rollins Band. Henry Rollins also just came
out with a spoken word CD with Charles Gayle and Rashied Ali. Vernon
Ried's Masque is OK but Don Byron's playing is great with them. The duo
album with Frisell was pretty weak in my opinion.

listening to: Ned Rothenberg/Elliott Sharp/Samm Bennett - 'Semantics'

                -Tom Pratt

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 15:39:44 +1100 (EST)
From: James Douglas Knox <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Plunderphonics re-issue(s)

On Fri, 7 Nov 1997, Caleb Deupree wrote:

> >>>>> "James" == James Douglas Knox <[e-mail]> writes:
>
>     James> The original "Plunderphonics" was recently re-released as a
>     James> 3" mini- by those crazies in Austria - still a wonderful,
>     James> nutty thing.
>
> More info please?  Which particular crazies in Austria?  I thought the
> original was over an hour long -- how could it fit onto a mini?
>
That's just my guess - its a little hard to work out the actual point of
origin for this one; probably due to the highly litigious nature of the
recordings. The sleeve is white type on a dead black field; title on the
front, track titles on back. My reason for this guess was (from memory) it
says "Made in Austria" on the inside edge of the disc. So its most
*likely* the work of the Sabotage/Mego crew.

Basically; this gathers about 7 tracks off the original long player. From
memory that's the Metallica, Stravinsky, Beethoven, Dick Hyman, Micheal
Jackson, Capt Beefheart and James Brown pieces ( a couple others as well).
So, y'know; its not all there - but most of the best things are.

I got mine from an Australian distributor, Synaesthesia Musique:
[e-mail]

Maybe I should add; I saw an add for forthcoming releases on Blast First
a while back - one of which was a re-ish of the Plunderphonics disc. I was
kinda hoping this might've been the CDep he did for Elektra, but I don't
know if it ever came to pass.

Cheers,

Jim

"To be a good revolutionary, we must pass all our academic exams."
- - Dusan Makaveyev



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 23:42:36 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Xenakis/Zorn

In a message dated 97-11-09 16:33:11 EST, you write:

> Listening to the recent release of Xenakis' 'Electronic Music' this
>  morning (nothing like hearing 'Bohor' first thing in the AM!), I was
>  struck by the thought of how, if one of his early pieces were included
>  on, say, JZ's next Soundtrack album, it would fit in comfortably
>  (especially a piece like 'Concret PH'). Nothing against Zorn's more
>  exploratory electronic work (I like it quite a bit) but it's interesting
>  to note how much of that 'sound world' was anticipated by Xenakis as
>  much as 40 years ago! I noticed on the Tzadik site that this disc was
>  listed as a recent purchase by JZ; I think the influence may have been
>  profound.
>
>  List subscribers who have enjoyed pieces like the soundtrack for 'The
>  Black Glove' but have not yet heard Xenakis might like to give a listen.

I know Mr. X is a big influence on long time NYerz
Donald Miller & Borbetomagus.

It's that wall o' noise thang...

* . * . . D a v i d   B e a r d s l e y .. [e-mail] *
*                                               .             *
* I M M P  &  B i i n k!   m  u  s  i  c   .        .    *    *
* J u x t a p o s i t i o n Ezine              .              *
* M E L A  v i r t u a l       dream house monitor    *       *
*                                                             *
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm    *    .    .   *
* ..         .*..  *  . .  .       .*       ..*.   .   ..  .  *


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 22:58:07 -0500
From: [e-mail] ( =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9mi?= Bissonnette)
Subject: Absinthe, Praxis

I was wondering, did Naked City ever perform songs from Absinthe live?  If
not, could it have been done, or was this recording too much of a sound
collage to be reproduced in a live context?

Secondly, there was a rumor a while back about the next Praxis studio CD,
in that it would feature (besides the usual people, i.e. Brain, Laswell,
Buckethead) the likes of Justin Broadrick, Kevin Martin and Page Hamilton.
Currently, the last I've heard about the project was that Brain had left to
play with Primus, was replaced by Cindy Blackman, and apparently the new CD
will feature her plus Laswell, Buckethead and some DJs, but not the three
others mentionned earlier.  Does anybody know why this change took place?
Was the old rumor just something that was thrown around for some time and
never really took off?

Also, does anybody have any comments on the Avant release "Harmolodic
Jeopardy" by the band Dim Sum Clip Job?  The short description in the DMG
catalog piqued my interest but I'd like to hear some personal opinions, if
possible.

Lastly, is there a chance that somebody out there knows at which venue the
Ruins playing in Montreal (Canada) on November 28?  I'm really having
trouble finding tickets and that would help a lot.

Thanks!

Bruno Bissonnette

R=E9mi Bissonnette Ph.D.
Professeur titulaire
=46acult=E9 d'=C9ducation physique et sportive
Universit=E9 de Sherbrooke
Sherbrooke, Qu=E9bec
J1K 2R1
=20



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 23:18:13 -0500 (EST)
From: ia zha nah er vesen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Vernon Reid

>     Vernon performed in JZ's Track and Field(see, not so off topic), and
> was for many years, a member of Ronald Shannon Jacksons Decoding
> Society.

Tell me more about this group...sounds like a capital-i institution in the
cool-music world.  Maybe that's just because the word 'society' is tacked
on the end...

- -jascha



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 23:23:18 -0500 (EST)
From: ia zha nah er vesen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: opening acts?

> > I'll admit that if I hadn't been accidentally introduced to Praxis and
> > Painkiller, when I was  young Indie-Rocker, A full 3/4 of the albums I
> > own would not have been purchased.   The sheer number of people that John
> > -
>     i myself was really into "indie rock" (kinda still am...) until i came
> upon listening to naked city and that happened since i knew about the
> boredoms and such...then i listened to zorn's other works, the first

yeah...i used to like GODFLESH a few years ago, and so bought Buried
Secrets out of interest (i'd heard about Zorn from a small review of
Torture Garden: a 45rpm release with almost as many songs on it...how
could a young noisey-music fan resist?).

the 'z' section of my CD shelf has grown immensely, and i've long since
sold off the godflesh stuff...

- -jascha


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 23:26:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn's *influences* as historical continuity (Danger! polemic!)

On Mon, 10 Nov 1997, James Douglas Knox wrote:

> And
> if the *Modernist* movement in culture can be reduced to the attempt
> to radically break off with cultural tradition, perhaps Modernism was the
> artistic vanguard for the attrocities of the world wars. Hitler and Stalin
> could be seen as Modernists par excellence, maybe.

Interesting point.  For a more recent example, consider the ease with
which Nazis appropriated punk, rock's chief modernist movement.  (Am I
getting into Greil Marcus territory here?) When you burn all value systems
to the ground, any old weed might grow up to take their place.  Not that
this is necessarily bad, but it's risky.

  Of course it's not really fair to reduce modernism to the attempt to
make a radical break.  It's always also had a strand concerned with
extending, rather than severing tradition.  Think about Joyce and
Eliot.  If, as Jim suggests, part of Zorn's mission is to reconstruct
modernism as a kind of radical traditionalism (check that quote on the
back of the Masada discs again, folks), maybe he picked this up in part
from the jazz avant-gardists he was hanging around and listening to in the
70's (the AACM, the BAG, Frank Lowe, who identifies himself as an
"Out-Traditionalist" on the liner note for _Lowe and Behold_, Zorn's first
released sideman gig (I think)).

Just some semi-coherent thoughts,

Chris Hamilton



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 23:34:17 -0500 (EST)
From: ia zha nah er vesen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Absinthe, Praxis

> Also, does anybody have any comments on the Avant release "Harmolodic
> Jeopardy" by the band Dim Sum Clip Job?  The short description in the DMG
> catalog piqued my interest but I'd like to hear some personal opinions, if
> possible.

 i think i saw these guys at the Cooler in august when they opened for an
Ikue Mori/Eyvind Kang/come other person trio.  They sounded to me kind of
punky, messy, not really my kind of thing...i didn't hear alot going on in
the music...there was one piece where the guitarist was playing a cute 4
against 3 ostinato thing, but it felt kind of gratuitous..."hey look, i
can play polyrhythms"...

but if punky is what you're after, they're it.

if they are who i think they are, at any rate.

how's that for feedback? :)

- -jascha


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 00:33:14 -0500 (EST)
From: David Newgarden <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: vernon reid / ronald shannon jackson

As a teen, I was 'way into' those Ronald Shannon Jackson Decoding Society
albums with Vernon Reid (especially Barbeque Dog) - haven't heard 'em in
years and wonder if they sound extremely dated? Jackson made a wonderful
solo drum/voice album (can't remember the name) that I'll bet has held up
better over the years simply for lack of electric instruments.

I saw quite a few of the last Living Colour (jazz trio) gigs (which were
pretty good) and then their early rock (quartet) shows which were pretty
miserable....

Jackson's "What Spirit Say" (ca. 1995 on DIW) is really terrific in the
sorta the same Prime-Time-ish harmolodic vein as the Decoding Society (I
haven't heard his other DIWs) - w/ James Carter on sax, Jeff Lee Johnson
on guitar, and a bassist (can't remember who). For a couple of years when
he was completely absent from New York clubs, I got to hear a lot of
solo Shannon because we had adjacent rehearsal rooms (in a crumbling
Garment District building) -- I particularly remember one late late night,
hearing hours of amazing wailing on a weird metal reed instrument (with 8
or 10 protruding bells) that he called the "Boschorn" (as in Hieronymus).




- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 22:00:18 -0800
From: "Schwitterz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Country Music In The World Of Post-Modernism

>  Of course it's not really fair to reduce modernism to the attempt to
>make a radical break.  It's always also had a strand concerned with
>extending, rather than severing tradition.  Think about Joyce and
>Eliot.  If, as Jim suggests, part of Zorn's mission is to reconstruct
>modernism as a kind of radical traditionalism (check that quote on the
>back of the Masada discs again, folks), maybe he picked this up in part
>from the jazz avant-gardists he was hanging around and listening to in the
>70's (the AACM, the BAG, Frank Lowe, who identifies himself as an
>"Out-Traditionalist" on the liner note for _Lowe and Behold_, Zorn's first
>released sideman gig (I think)).

>Chris Hamilton
______________________________

The rest of us were wasting our time listening to Captain Beefheart and the
Velvet Underground...all that stuff, while these hillbillies doing Country
Music had done post-modern before the rest of us had even gotten to
neo-classical modern.

- --David Thomas and Two Pale Boys

sZ


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 02:03:41 -0500
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: vernon reid / ronald shannon jackson

David Newgarden wrote:

> As a teen, I was 'way into' those Ronald Shannon Jackson Decoding
> Society
> albums with Vernon Reid (especially Barbeque Dog) - haven't heard 'em
> in
> years and wonder if they sound extremely dated? Jackson made a
> wonderful
> solo drum/voice album (can't remember the name) that I'll bet has held
> up
> better over the years simply for lack of electric instruments.

I think they still sound mighty damn fine, actually... and for
newcomers, "Mandance" and "Barbeque Dog" are still the high points of
his career so far.  What sounds "dated" now is the attendant prose of
the 1980s regarding these albums.  Rafi Zabor in particular, God bless
him, was thoroughly naive enough to believe that Shannon was the
jazz/rock messiah who would finally break through and unite the
audiences of these two genres.  (Remember when "Musician" was worth
reading?)  "Pulse" is also very fine.  I've never seen it on disc (see
the various Matarazzo threads for more details) though some have told me
it's available.

> Jackson's "What Spirit Say" (ca. 1995 on DIW) is really terrific in
> the
> sorta the same Prime-Time-ish harmolodic vein as the Decoding Society
> (I
> haven't heard his other DIWs) - w/ James Carter on sax, Jeff Lee
> Johnson
> on guitar, and a bassist (can't remember who).

Yes!  And the bassist was Ngolle Pokossi, for the more anal out there
(like myself), the best bassist with whom Shannon has recorded since the
good old Melvin Gibbs / Reverend Bruce Johnson tandem days.  His other
DIWs, in this completist's opinion, are hit and miss... there's some
pretty nice guitar on "Raven Roc" with Jef Lee Johnson and Dave
Fiuczynski, but as an album it doesn't hold up as well as "What Spirit
Say."  The new one, "Shannon's House" (available domestically on Koch
Jazz), isn't altogether bad, but it's certainly the most mellow and
easy-going release of Shannon's career, dominated by a keyboardist where
"Decode Yourself" was keyboard heavy but still dominated by the drummer.

> I particularly remember one late late night,
> hearing hours of amazing wailing on a weird metal reed instrument
> (with 8
> or 10 protruding bells) that he called the "Boschorn" (as in
> Hieronymus).

Usually on record it's referred to as the "schallmei" (and it's
misspelled in any number of ways on various releases).

And speaking of absence from New York, oh boy do I wish he'd get back
here.  I think the main reason his new album, "Shannon's House"
(DIW/Koch), is so comparatively weak is that no one on it is playing on
the same level as Shannon, with the possible exception of Jef Lee
Johnson, who's heard to much better effect on "What Spirit Say" anyway.
And it was recorded  in Dallas, not far from Shannon's once again home
base of Fort Worth.  I'm all for the concept of a "working band" but I
can almost guarantee this band's not "working" in Dallas.  I'd love it
if anyone could correct me on that.  But mostly I just wish he'd come
back to New York and play with his old peers again.

I've got a complete discography (my official application to the Fanboy
Hall of Fame) posted at
http://www.nwu.edu/WNUR/jazz/artists/jackson.ronald.shannon/discog.html
for those who want to know more.  Many Zornlisters fed me important
information for this, my pet project for several years.  For those not
so inclined, get a copy of "Barbeque Dog" and the rest should come easy.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 09:12:42 +0100 (MEZ)
From: BJOERN <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Vernon Reid

> This is one of those 'where are they now' thoughts... What's Vernon Reid
> doing these days?
>
yes he lives in new york...and he`s touring europe at the moment with a
project called "my science project"
sounds a lot like his solo cd that came out last year i think
hip hopish style

BJOERN

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Nov 1997 12:12:40 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: pigpen

On Sat, 08 Nov 1997 11:02:08 -0800  hywel davies wrote:
>
> does anyone have info. yet on the forthcoming Pigpen cd "daylight"? or

It is supposed to be out (with the long awaited COUNTERFEIT by Boodlers).
A friend has the Boodlers, but I have not seen yet the new Pigpen.

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 12:10:40 +0100
From: Stephane Vuilleumier <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: d'n'b recommendations was (Re:Bailey & d'n'b)

I'm still looking for experimental and/or fast stuff
in drum n' bass but keep being disappointed.

Alec Empire's stuff on Mille Plateaux is still the most stupidly
gratifying Naked City-like material around to me (sometimes),
but I wish there would be something on the non-punk experimental
(should I say Absinthe?) side of things that maybe you still could dance to...
The closest I've come up with recently was the Spring Heel Jack record
"busy curious thirsty", but I could definitely do with more experimentalism
in it.  Apparently, for reviewers of that kind of music, this is already
very experimental.

Any suggestions?

Stephane Vuilleumier


At 16:58 07.11.97 -0500, [e-mail] (Matthew Colonnese) wrote:
>
>>  Much of the most lauded recent d n' bass has lost so much
>>  of the bass.  Ah well, that's progess I guess.
>
>
>------
>"Finally, a thing-a-ma-giggy that would bring people together...even if it
>kept them apart, spatially."
>
>
>
>-
>
>
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 07:43:10 -0500
From: Jay Ziskrout <[e-mail]>
Subject: delete

please delete [e-mail] from the Zorn mailing list.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 08:47:47 -0500
From: max <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: patton

I witnessed the Patton/Zorn show at the Loud Festival in Northampton,
Mass last year. I thought it was pretty amusing, especially because
everyone seemed to be hating it so much. Overall it was probably the
best group I saw at that festival, if only because they did something
entirely different (read: alternative) from all the indie bands.

That being said, it was a pretty mediocre project for Zorn. I met him
after the performance and had him sign my copy of John Patton's "Minor
Swing." He looked a little confused. What are other cds people have
asked Zorn to sign?

Max

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 08:51:35 -0600
From: "Glenn Astarita" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: vernon reid / ronald shannon jackson

- ----------
> From: Steve Smith <
> Cc: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: vernon reid / ronald shannon jackson
> Date: Tuesday, November 11, 1997 1:03 AM
>
> David Newgarden wrote:
>
> > As a teen, I was 'way into' those Ronald Shannon Jackson Decoding
> > Society
> > albums with Vernon Reid (especially Barbeque Dog) - haven't heard 'em
> > in
> > years and wonder if they sound extremely dated? Jackson made a
> > wonderful
> > solo drum/voice album (can't remember the name) that I'll bet has held
> > up
> > better over the years simply for lack of electric instruments.
>
> > Steve Smith
> [e-mail]
>
snip..

Shannon's latest ("Shannon's House") is nice albeit more radio friendly if
there is such a thing these days ? btw, Jef Lee Johnson's solo cd was
selling for $21 smackers (arrgghh)  at Tower.....

p.s. * Steve, nice job with the Screwgun website................


glenn
>

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #154
*******************************


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