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1998-03-08
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From: Zorn List Digest
Sent: Monday, November 10, 1997 3:16 PM
To: zorn-list-digest@xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #153
Zorn List Digest Monday, November 10 1997 Volume 02 : Number 153
In this issue:
-
Re: Playing Games
Dead Outside
Re: Zorn's *influences* as historical continuity (Danger! polemic!)
Re: Oswald
Re: Vocal 20th century music
Re: Chicago
DELETE
Re: Opening acts
Vernon Reid
Re: Vernon Reid
Re: Vernon Reid
Re: Vernon Reid
Dave Douglas
Re: Chicago
Re: john oswald
opening acts?
decoding society
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 20:03:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: Playing Games
On Thu, 6 Nov 1997, MBS wrote:
> BTW what did/does Jeff Buckley do on the Live at KF Cobra disc?
He sings on two excerpts from an all-vocals performance of "Cobra". Best
stuff on the record (which is mostly pretty weak).
Chris Hamilton
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 19:49:54 -0500
From: Richard Williams <punkjazz@snet.net>
Subject: Dead Outside
Has anyone heard the Golden Palomino's re-mixes at Nicole Blackman's web
site? Any Comments?
http://www.nicole-blackman.com/sounds/deadout2.htm
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 16:26:16 +1100 (EST)
From: James Douglas Knox <jknox@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Zorn's *influences* as historical continuity (Danger! polemic!)
On Sat, 8 Nov 1997, ia zha nah er vesen wrote:
> > taste. This is what invalidates the argument from influence for me: that
> > other work with similar influences (including some of the work that
> > influenced him) seems to me to be stronger and more original than Zappa's.
>
> indeed...if someone lists off thier 'influences', then they're placing
> the music they do along some sort of continuum (or in some sort of space,
> if you prefer a less linear metaphor). The assumption being made
> is that (some) people are familiar with the influences listed and they'll
> have these in mind to a greater or lesser extent when listening to
> whatever it is (Zappa, Zorn, etc..). If the music seems too derivative,
> then it isn't making a very interesting comment on the ideas presented in
> the music that inspired it.
I think part of what Zorn's done - and something that I respect and value
very highly - is to promote the work not only of his living peers, but of
a neglected, heterogeneous avant-garde tradition. And I don't think he's
done it in an attempt to validate his own work - as I've always felt
someone like Zappa did - but simply in order to clue up his audience.
More than that; it might be about describing some kind of cultural - as
opposed to biological - lineage for himself. A v important project,
because its a counter to that tendency in modern culture to promote
artwork in isolation; as the product of singular, inspired genius. This
can only culminate in the ideal that communities don't matter - its
individuals in competition that count.
I've always been troubled by something in Pasolini's "Salo"; that scene
right at the end, just before the fascists go on their final killing
spree. You see the guards in their apartment; a print of Leger's on the
wall, readings of Ezra Pound on the radio. Its the only time when these
freakers aren't engaged in some kind of depraved atrocity. And
if the *Modernist* movement in culture can be reduced to the attempt
to radically break off with cultural tradition, perhaps Modernism was the
artistic vanguard for the attrocities of the world wars. Hitler and Stalin
could be seen as Modernists par excellence, maybe. And after all; what
were these last two guys about, but applying Fordian principles of mass
production to the killing of human beings.
Also: I tend to think that the construction of any kind of community must
be premised on re-forging links to the past; acknowledging our shared debt
both to each other, and to those those who've passed. And for me; this is
- - in part at least - the essence of what Zorn's about. Its a truly
wonderful thing, and so bloody rare in contemporary culture. Regardless of
his other legacies, this side of his work makes a real and meaningful
difference - both as an example, and a thing in itself. I got no doubt of
it.
And when we talk about "free" music, doesn't that qualifier function as
both a description, and a demand? And isn't the global free/out music
diaspora some kind of a meaningful community - in opposition to
capitalism, and somehow (to me) related to things like the Paris Commune
and '36 Catalonia?
Cheers,
Jim
"In art, the most important thing is not that one takes eggs and oil, but
that one has fire and a pan."
- - Karl Krause
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 13:38:42 +0000
From: Alan.Gordon@hydro.co.uk (Alan Gordon)
Subject: Re: Oswald
<jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> said:
>>
>> The original "Plunderphonics" was recently re-released as a 3"
>mini- by
>> those crazies in Austria - still a wonderful, nutty thing.
>
>Wow...i didn't think that would ever see the light of day after being
>destroyed by the canadian government for copywrite infringement. Do
>you
>know what the label name is?
Sorry if this has already been answered.....
From what i remember once reading on a now-defunct Oswald homepage, it
was (secretly) released by Blast First and sent out as christmas
presents to various people.
It may still be available from rough trade in london. I believe it
has some mastering/sound quality problems too, but still, credit to BF
for releasing it.
alan
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 09:30:24 -0500
From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree)
Subject: Re: Vocal 20th century music
>>>>> "Valkwitch" == Valkwitch <valk@buffnet.net> writes:
>> A must: Stimmung by Stockhausen
Valkwitch> is this hard to find? alot of stockhausen's
Valkwitch> compositions are, but i think he's releasing them
Valkwitch> himself right now...i only have mantra and kontakte...
A version of Stimmung by the group Singcircle should be (relatively)
widely available.
Caleb Deupree
cdeupree@interagp.com
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
(Pablo Picasso)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 10:20:30 -0500
From: Michael Murphy <mjm@tongue.purplefrog.com>
Subject: Re: Chicago
"Wilson, King of Prussia" <Kingwil@interaccess.com> wrote:
> I've been in Chicago for the last 4 years, and I try to hit every show
> that any of the 'New York' musicians play here. They are never packed,
> usually not even crowded....
> Not that many of Zorn's group ever come here. I don't think Zorn himself
> has been here in 5 years.
> The Knitting Factory did it's Loud Music Silent Film festival here a few
> years back, 2 nights, and there were probably about a hundred each night.
Hey, would anyone here mind telling me if anything cool of this sort is going
to be happening in the Chicago area during the week around Thanksgiving (Nov.
24 through Dec 1st or so)? I'm going up there with my girlfriend to see her
family, and i've never been there before (and she hasn't been in years, and
her family is kind of out of it, so they wouldn't be much help...)
We'd really appreciate finding out there's some cool music, film, or such
happening (or anything just to get out of the house and away from the folks
for a while... :-)
(Sorry for the non-Zorn-specific content, y'all.)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 12:23:02 -0500
From: Jay Ziskrout <gritaeu@xs4all.nl>
Subject: DELETE
Patrick Carey wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Please pardon the non-musical use of bandwidth & the cross-posting ...
>
PLEASE DELETE gritaeu@xs4all.nl from this mailing list
> I urgently need to get in contact with SAI KONG, who used to be at
> U. Stony Brook, NY <skong@ic.sunysb.edu>, but has now changed email
> addresses ...
>
> SAI, if you see this, PLEASE contact me.
>
> Thanks
>
> -Patrick
>
> -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 10:17:29 -0600
From: jihad7@juno.com (Nathan M Earixson)
Subject: Re: Opening acts
On Sat, 08 Nov 1997 17:05:48 -0500 "ALAN E. KAYSER" <aek1@erols.com>
writes:
>
>Yes, this is an aspect of Mr. Zorn that should not be overlooked.
>Tzadik has presented many deserving artists with a chance to get their
>works out to the public. Friedlander, Feldman, Krakauer, Ribot, etc
>etc. Hats off to him. If his many releases allow him the $$$ to put
>out works by others, then he deserves to be supported.
>
>Alan
>
I'll admit that if I hadn't been accidentally introduced to Praxis and
Painkiller, when I was young Indie-Rocker, A full 3/4 of the albums I
own would not have been purchased. The sheer number of people that John
Zorn or Bill Laswell have worked with opened up a whole different
"genre" (VERY loosely used term) of music to me. And then when you
start getting into the artists who influenced the current works, you have
a very expensive album buying mission ahead. Just take the members of
Naked City, start listenening to their other works, and then expand
fron there. It's a good a starting place as any, especially when you
live in oh-so-not-avant-garde Minnesota.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 13:24:26 -0500 (EST)
From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Vernon Reid
This is one of those 'where are they now' thoughts... What's Vernon Reid
doing these days?
In case this appears more off topic than i think it really is:
- - i saw a taped performance of living colour and thought 'gee...he's good'
- - i remember hearing he had some kind of wierd jazz band called 'masque of
the red death', or something...
- - he lives in new york
- - he was on 'the big gundown'
I wasn't a Living Colour fan, but the above thoughts got me thinking the
other day that there's more to guy than has met my eye.
- -jascha
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 14:08:38 -0500
From: "Chris Barrett" <cbarrett@neaq.org>
Subject: Re: Vernon Reid
At 1:24 PM 11/10/97, ia zha nah er vesen wrote:
>This is one of those 'where are they now' thoughts... What's Vernon Reid
>doing these days?
>
>In case this appears more off topic than i think it really is:
>
>- i saw a taped performance of living colour and thought 'gee...he's good'
>- i remember hearing he had some kind of wierd jazz band called 'masque of
> the red death', or something...
>- he lives in new york
>- he was on 'the big gundown'
>
>
>I wasn't a Living Colour fan, but the above thoughts got me thinking the
>other day that there's more to guy than has met my eye.
>
>-jascha
>
I'm not quite sure was he's doing at the moment, but he did have a solo
album out last year called Mistaken Identity. I think Melvin Gibbs was
among the people on it. the only other thing I remember about it was that
Laurence Fishborne had an extremely funny spoken word part on one of the
tracks about how to keep your karma once you had purchased it.
I do know the Reid has made a duo album with Frisell and that he was apart
of Ronald Shannon Jackson's Decoding Society sometime in the mid to late
eighties. Of course, I've never heard any of theses albums....
- -Chris
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 14:57:40 -0500
From: Richard Williams <punkjazz@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Vernon Reid
ia zha nah er vesen wrote:
>
> This is one of those 'where are they now' thoughts... What's Vernon Reid
> doing these days?
>
> In case this appears more off topic than i think it really is:
>
> - i saw a taped performance of living colour and thought 'gee...he's good'
> - i remember hearing he had some kind of wierd jazz band called 'masque of
> the red death', or something...
> - he lives in new york
> - he was on 'the big gundown'
>
> I wasn't a Living Colour fan, but the above thoughts got me thinking the
> other day that there's more to guy than has met my eye.
Indeed. Actually Living Color started off in 84 as a "weird Jazz band"
whose early members included Jerome Harris, Pheroan Aklaff,Greg
Carter(Jan Hammer Group).and Gerri Allen. The early living Color
repertoire has never been documented on LP, but consisted of a lot of
high energy rock-fusion type stuff(Jimi Hendrix meets Mahavishnu), as
well as an Ornette cover or two.
Vernon performed in JZ's Track and Field(see, not so off topic), and
was for many years, a member of Ronald Shannon Jacksons Decoding
Society.
He performed his Opera "Afrerica" at Prospect Park in Brooklyn,
appeared in AUMN with Julian Thayer,Dougie Bowne, and Paul Ray. He also
has performed many one-off gigs with High School chum Melvin Gibbs.
Recently Vernon released the excellent "Mistaken Idebntity" on CBS, and
has been performing with his band Masque, which sometimes includes
clarinetist Don Byron. Masque is a kind of Heavy Rock meets Hip-Hop
band. He was also a founder of The Black Rock Coalition, and MOBI
(Musicians of Brooklyn Initiative). He also led the central Park tribute
to Sonny Sharrock. Last time I saw Vernon he opened for King Crimson.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 12:04:30 -0800
From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel)
Subject: Re: Vernon Reid
At 2:08 PM 11/10/97, Chris Barrett wrote:
>At 1:24 PM 11/10/97, ia zha nah er vesen wrote:
>>This is one of those 'where are they now' thoughts... What's Vernon Reid
>>doing these days?
>>
>>In case this appears more off topic than i think it really is:
>>
>>- i saw a taped performance of living colour and thought 'gee...he's good'
>>- i remember hearing he had some kind of wierd jazz band called 'masque of
>> the red death', or something...
>>- he lives in new york
>>- he was on 'the big gundown'
>>
>>
>>I wasn't a Living Colour fan, but the above thoughts got me thinking the
>>other day that there's more to guy than has met my eye.
>>
>>-jascha
>>
> I'm not quite sure was he's doing at the moment, but he did have a solo
>album out last year called Mistaken Identity. I think Melvin Gibbs was
>among the people on it. the only other thing I remember about it was that
>Laurence Fishborne had an extremely funny spoken word part on one of the
>tracks about how to keep your karma once you had purchased it.
>
I only casually listened to this, but I thought it was kinda weak, guitar
hero fusion stuff with some hip hop production.
>I do know the Reid has made a duo album with Frisell and that he was apart
>of Ronald Shannon Jackson's Decoding Society sometime in the mid to late
>eighties. Of course, I've never heard any of theses albums....
>
Then you are missing some great music! The Frisell duet disc hasn't aged
that well for me, but the Decoding Society stuff still rocks. Imagine a
grittier, funkier, meaner Prime Time. Barbecue Dog, Mandance and Decode
Yourself are the best that I remember, much of Shannon Jackson's later
stuff with or without the Decoding Society is not so great.
________________________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/
"...there will come a day when you won't have to use
gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in
your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper
type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em
together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em
together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire."
-Sun Ra
________________________________________________________
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 15:40:21 -0800
From: Jason Tors <jtors@usinteractive.com>
Subject: Dave Douglas
Hello All,
Dave Douglas has a new album out, what is it like? What is it
called? Who is on it?
Sorry for any redundancy regarding the subject.
**=B6* =86=905=F8N**T=F8=AE5*=B6=BA=BA
jasontors
- ->junior art director__usinteractive_212.685.3727
jtors@usinteractive.com
(=B4=B4=AE=B4=B4) (=B4=B4=AE=
=B4=B4)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 13:07:18 -0800
From: Damon Holzborn <damon@im.gte.com>
Subject: Re: Chicago
>Hey, would anyone here mind telling me if anything cool of this sort is going
>to be happening in the Chicago area during the week around Thanksgiving (Nov.
>24 through Dec 1st or so)? I'm going up there with my girlfriend to see her
>family, and i've never been there before (and she hasn't been in years, and
>her family is kind of out of it, so they wouldn't be much help...)
>We'd really appreciate finding out there's some cool music, film, or such
>happening (or anything just to get out of the house and away from the folks
>for a while... :-)
Try the Chicago Now site:
http://www.cs.nwu.edu/~tisue/chicagonow/
I'm not from Chicago so can't speak personally for it's
quality/completeness but it looks like a list that has some good advice for
a Zorn-lister.
===========================
Damon Holzborn
damon@im.gte.com
damon@zucasa.com
Zu Casa es su casa...
http://www.zucasa.com
===========================
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 97 22:38:02 +1000
From: Alister Shew <alby@midnite.net.au>
Subject: Re: john oswald
Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but there's some info on Oswald,
Plunderphonics, etc at:
http://www.6q.com/~vacuvox/
Al
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 16:27:11 -0500
From: Valkwitch <valk@buffnet.net>
Subject: opening acts?
> I'll admit that if I hadn't been accidentally introduced to Praxis and
> Painkiller, when I was young Indie-Rocker, A full 3/4 of the albums I
> own would not have been purchased. The sheer number of people that John
> Zorn or Bill Laswell have worked with opened up a whole different
> "genre" (VERY loosely used term) of music to me. And then when you
> start getting into the artists who influenced the current works, you have
> a very expensive album buying mission ahead. Just take the members of
> Naked City, start listenening to their other works, and then expand
> fron there. It's a good a starting place as any, especially when you
> live in oh-so-not-avant-garde Minnesota.
>
> -
i myself was really into "indie rock" (kinda still am...) until i came
upon listening to naked city and that happened since i knew about the
boredoms and such...then i listened to zorn's other works, the first
that stuck out in my mind besides naked city was Harras and it was the
first time i heard derek bailey, for some reason i instantly thought
this kinda stuff was amazing and i still do...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 17:53:45 -0500
From: "ALAN E. KAYSER" <aek1@erols.com>
Subject: decoding society
There was some conversation about Vernon Reid, which led into Ronald
Shannon Jackson and Decoding Society. Jackson was on several of Cecil
Taylor's hatArt CDs, worked with Ulmer, then went off on his own. His
first DS release was Eye on You, which was excellent but has never been
released on CD. It featured Billy Bang, and if you can find the LP it's
worth getting. He followed that with two Moers Music releases, Nasty
and Street Priest, in the early 80s. Reid is on both of these. They
are similar to Prime Time, but much harder. The Ornette/Harmolodic
influence is clear throughout the DS material. The earlier works were
not at all funky, as later DS became. These were followed by Mandance,
Barbeque Dog, and Decode Yourself. The band mutated into a much more
funky band, but all three, especially Dog, are good. Decode Yourself
featured synth, rather annoyingly so to these ears. These were all at
one time on CD, but whether or not they are still available is another
question. The original DS then departed, the new band was more guitar
centered. There was an excellent release on Caravan of Dreams titled
When Colors Play. The last DS was titled Texas on CofD. Reid had
departed prior to the CofD releases. There was a reunion of sorts titled
Taboo. Later mutations had completely done away with horns, and were to
be avoided for DS fans.
Alan E Kayser
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #153
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