ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/zorn-list/archive/V02n153d.txt

Internet Message Format | 1998-03-08 | 21KB

From:     Zorn List Digest
Sent:     Sunday, November 09, 1997 11:55 AM
To:     [e-mail]
Subject:     Zorn List Digest V2 #152


Zorn List Digest       Sunday, November 9 1997       Volume 02 : Number 152



In this issue:
-
       Re: Frank Frank Frank, What About Eno?
       pigpen
       need a tape deck
       Re: sun ra
       Thanks everybody
       Xenakis/Zorn
       Gerry Hemingway
       Re: Thanks everybody
       Re: Xenakis Links
       posts
       Re: posts
       Re: New Kraut
       Re: Going thru the motions, or invention? (more hot air)
       Stockhausen Homepage
       Re: gerry hemingway...
       Opening acts
       Re: "the music itself" & expectati0ns
       Re: Opening acts
       Re: "the music itself" & expectati0ns
       Re: Opening acts
       Re: gerry hemingway...
       NEED To Contact SAI KONG ...
       Re: sun ra

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 20:15:31 -0800
From: "Schwitterz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Frank Frank Frank, What About Eno?

The Eno interview is a bit long to post to the list so I am posting it
directly to individuals who e-mail me privately requesting it.

sZ



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 11:02:08 -0800
From: hywel davies <[e-mail]>
Subject: pigpen

does anyone have info. yet on the forthcoming Pigpen cd "daylight"? or
details of the new Mark Dresser?

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 08:15:36 -0600
From: "Glenn Astarita" <[e-mail]>
Subject: need a tape deck

Anyone have or know someone who is selling a used cassette deck ? It can be
either single or double but needs dolby b and preferably dolby c.  I've
seen some floor models at the local stores but most of them seem
overpriced....Anyway, i need to dub some tapes but don't feel like spending
$300 on a new deck.  Any info would be appreciated..thanks !

Glenn

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 11:31:24 -0500
From: "ALAN E. KAYSER" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: sun ra

Valkwitch wrote:

> Sun Ra was quite prolific.  While I can't guess the total number of
> > documented recordings he released (not to mention the undocumented
> ones too),
> > it would probably be safe to say that the total was well over 150
> LPs.
> >  Sunny's lack of availability of course, was due to small pressings
> and
> > little distribution.  The only way I picked up many of his El Saturn
>
> > recordings was at his concerts, and that was if you caught him early
> enough
> > in a tour.
>         i think most of his stuff (the saturn recordings)is being
> re-released
> by the evidence label....

While Mr. Sun Ra was on this planet he did record quite freely.  Most of
these recordings were distributed by Mr. Ra himself and were available
only from him or at Third Street Jazz here in Philadelphia, where he
spent his last days in his earthly disguise.  These recordings are now
being made available by Jerry Gordon of Evidence.  He was the owner of
Third Street Jazz, but is now Mr. Evidence.  At one time Third Street
was a mecca to jazz collectors back in the vinyl days.  One entire wall
was covered with the hand drawn labels of Mr. Ra's recordings.  They are
fondly remembered by those of us lucky enough to have been there.  If I
recall correctly 150 is probably on the low side.  CDs are great, but
vinyl was more fun!!!

Alan Kayser

>
>
> -




- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 11:28:52 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Thanks everybody

Just wanted to drop a note in here to say how much I am enjoying this mailing
list.  The diversity in subject material here is refreshing.  On many lists,
getting away from the intended subject (Zorn) means instant flaming by many
of those who think a list should pertain to one subject alone.

Unfortunately, I think my wallet will suffer in the long run...

=dgasque=

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 12:42:05 -0800
From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Xenakis/Zorn

Listening to the recent release of Xenakis' 'Electronic Music' this
morning (nothing like hearing 'Bohor' first thing in the AM!), I was
struck by the thought of how, if one of his early pieces were included
on, say, JZ's next Soundtrack album, it would fit in comfortably
(especially a piece like 'Concret PH'). Nothing against Zorn's more
exploratory electronic work (I like it quite a bit) but it's interesting
to note how much of that 'sound world' was anticipated by Xenakis as
much as 40 years ago! I noticed on the Tzadik site that this disc was
listed as a recent purchase by JZ; I think the influence may have been
profound.

List subscribers who have enjoyed pieces like the soundtrack for 'The
Black Glove' but have not yet heard Xenakis might like to give a listen.

Brian Olewnick

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 12:19:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Caulfield Bivins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Gerry Hemingway

I have to second all that Schwitterz, Tom and Steve have said about G.H.
I'm especially excited to hear the new quartet with Eskelin, Anderson and
Dresser (which in some ways may recall his work with BassDrumBone, a.k.a.
Oahspe).

But I feel compelled especially to pick up the Braxton thread and urge you
all to pick up Quartet (1993) Santa Cruz, not just for Hemingway but for
the sublime heights the quartet achieved on this recording. As a fan of
all their work (esp. Willisau), this comes close to being the finest. Just
my two cents.

Jason Bivins


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 09:23:53 -0800
From: "Schwitterz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Thanks everybody

>Unfortunately, I think my wallet will suffer in the long run...
>
>=dgasque=

Better your wallet than your soul.

sZ



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 09:47:57 -0800
From: "Schwitterz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Xenakis Links

For Tom Pratt--Xenakis composed choral works:

http://www.brailsford.demon.co.uk/nlccrepx.htm

Other Xenakis:

http://www.emf.org/focus_xenakis.html

http://www.emf.org/store_xenformal.html

http://www.emf.org/cdcat_vandenburg.html






- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 11:55:26 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: posts

Regarding multitude of posts recently, did everyone just start a vacation?
I mean, talk about over-exposure!  (but, keep it coming)


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 10:13:23 -0800
From: "Schwitterz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: posts

>Regarding multitude of posts recently, did everyone just start a vacation?
>I mean, talk about over-exposure!  (but, keep it coming)

Our souls will never suffer from over-exposure.

Fr. sZ



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 04:41:44 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: New Kraut

In a message dated 97-11-07 10:42:01 EST, you write:

<< Any recommendations on any of the recent Tortoise offshoot (Isotope 217,
 Designer, Aerial M, Sea and the Cake, ...)? >>

I've got the first 3 Sea and Cake CDs.  The best description i've heard of
them is "a 90's version of Steely Dan", which I think is as close to their
music as i've heard.

now spinning: The High Llamas- Gideon Gaye ( _Pet Sounds_ of the 90's)

=dgasque=



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 04:41:56 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Going thru the motions, or invention? (more hot air)

In a message dated 97-11-07 20:13:15 EST, you (James Douglas Knox) write:

<< Fer sure; but you haven't addressed the second part of the original query
 (what is the likely legacy of Zorn's work). And the inclusion of Zappa in
 the above list is pretty telling. I'm not alone in being totally
 bewildered by the esteem some people hold this guy in. For me, he's just a
 mediocre white guy playing tricked-up r'n'r. My personal opinion is that
 Zappa's stuff hasn't aged very well - it was kind of goofy and whacky at
 the time, but at a distance its increasingly hard to see what the fuss was
 about. >>

I see your point to an extent, but you're not taking into account the span of
years since Zappa's early works and the early works of Zorn- easily a 15 year
difference.  Maybe in that amount of time from today the arguement can be
validated- right now it's mostly speculation.

I am not what you would call a Zappa freak- matter of fact it took a while
before I really got into his stuff.  Up until that time (without really
listening to anything by him), I thought he was some sort of weirdo.  A
friend of mine leant _Hot Rats_ to me and I was bowled over- couldn't believe
I had missed out on such brilliant music for so long.

<<As for invoking names like Sun Ra, Ellington, etc (someone else has
brought up the Western classical canon as well) - sure; but just how much
new and original composition is Zorn actually doing, as opposed to
recapitulating his own work or that of other composers. And sure - culture
is a continuity. but if you listen to the original of Morricone's Peur Sur
La Ville its a pretty hot S/T. Much as I like The Big Gundown, I wonder if
its really up to speed. Listen to the edits in the jazz sequences of the
S/T of The Man With The Golden Arm (from 1956?) - in comparison, Spillane
is really not such a break thru' in some regards.>>

I dunno.  I consider _The Big Gundown_ and _Spillaine_ conceptual to many an
extent- an obvious reflection of Zorn's love of the spagetti westerns and
gangland movies/books that he grew up with.  I get the idea that he wanted to
pay homage to those memories rather than twist them into something new.

<<Don't get me wrong - I love Zorn's work. I just wish he'd push himself a
bit more. From my remote vantage down here in Aus, it just seems like he's
exploiting an audience that's all too ready to buy whatever he releases to
the market, without any regard for whether its actually any good. Lucky
for him I guess; but sometimes I feel like right now he's in retreat from
the bolder, consistent, conceptual advances of previous years. Y'know; in
his Op interview (from '84 or something) he's talking about he wants to
dedicate some time and energy to a really intensive manipulation of his
saxophone playing, concrete style. V probably a fantastic sounding thing,
but it'd mean him sitting in a studio for an extended period of time,
working out some radically new approaches to his music. And we're still
waiting.>>

Then we get back into the argument again...is there really anything new?  I
think the freshest new scene i've heard is the drum 'n' bass scene.  In my
mind, lots of potential to do some neat stuff using drum patterns as an
instrument rather than a replacement for standard drums.  While i'm not
giving him credit entirely, Zappa was using the Synclavier more than a decade
ago, to record rhythm patterns that were impossible for a human to re-create.
 It sounded too "artificial" to my ears then and did nothing for me.  Now we
have drum 'n' bass...

<<I think its also a problem - in fact, its the essence of one particular
kind of problem - to defend Zorn by a comparison with Bach, Beethoven, et
al. I'm not too sure how Zorn himself would feel about this.>>

I think he would probably laugh.  Can you see a bust of Zorn, sitting on top
of a piano 200 years from now?

still spinning: The High Llamas- Gideon Gaye

=dgasque=

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 17:53:55 -0800
From: "Schwitterz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Stockhausen Homepage

If you care about Stockhausen, don't miss this site:
http://www.jimstonebraker.com/stockhausen.html


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 16:17:35 -0500 (EST)
From: ia zha nah er vesen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: gerry hemingway...

(i think my first attempt at sending this didn't work...sorry if this is a
repeat)

> anyone like gerry hemingway? i just picked up "marmalade king" that i
> found in the used racks...


yes oh yes oh yes i do.  I saw him without ever having heard of him before
for five measly canadian dollars at a jazz festival in a smallish city in
southern ontario last year.  He does things with drums i didn't know you
could do with drums...played solo drum kit for an hour and held everyone's
attention...i picked up two CDs:

- -solo acoustic works 83-92
- -solo electroacoustic works 84-95

(the dates may be wrong, but you get the idea)

They're both increadible.  The solo acoustic works has just about every
extended drum technique i've ever heard of on it, and then more that he (i
presume) invented himself; my favorites are the two tracks called 'trance
tracks', which are heavily polyrhythmic, with every limb doing something
different.  He plays his floor tom strapped over his back so he can hit it
with both hands like a mrdangam.

He is, in short, the man.

Solo, at least.  I heard a recording of his quintet and couldn't really
get into it...same goes for Joey Baron, though, and i still hold him in
very very high esteem.

Anyway, these CDs are on a label called

RANDOM ACOUSTICS
p.o. box 301070.
D-50780 koln, germany

phone [phone]
fax[phone]





- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 17:41:35 -0800
From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Opening acts

Jeff Spirer (shill hobby boy, etc) wrote:

>
>This is true if the "star" always makes sure to bring new artists into the
>circle.  One of the things I thought the Clash did quite well on their
>first American tour was exactly this - there had to be a relatively unknown
>local band on each of their tour dates.  (They also insisted on a black
>band opening, which I think was mostly Bo Diddley on that tour; the (Young)
>Rascals ("Groovin", "Good Lovin'", that band) also did this once they were
>successful.)  Hopefully Zorn understands the importance to both the
>audience and to new musicians...

While Zorn rarely seems to tour with opening acts, I think one of the most
important aspects of what he's done to support many aother musicians, some
of whom make work that's quite different from his, is the ambitious release
schedule of Tzadik & Avant, particularly, to my taste, the composer series.

Many of these musicians would find it difficult to get 2000 copies of a CD
pressed, let alone get an advance to work with, instead of having to pay
for most production costs out of pocket or through grant funds.  & some of
them, especially those from the world of contemporary classical music,
wouldn't necessarily have easy access to the range of folks who have prior
interest in Zorn's activities.

Also note Zorn's curation of several festivals/concert series at KF and
elsewhere (the first Radical Jewish Festival was in Europe).

Compared to most other composer/performers who've started labels that
present work by other musicians, no one comes close to supporting as wide a
range of work.


Herb Levy
[e-mail]



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 16:42:52 -0500 (EST)
From: ia zha nah er vesen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "the music itself" & expectati0ns

> My problem with Zappa's music isn't with the music itself, far from it.
> It's that for much of what it often seen as his most serious and
> progressive music, the post serial chamber/orchestral works, there's other
> similar music that I value much more highly based on my own experience and
> taste.  This is what invalidates the argument from influence for me: that
> other work with similar influences (including some of the work that
> influenced him) seems to me to be stronger and more original than Zappa's.

indeed...if someone lists off thier 'influences', then they're placing
the music they do along some sort of continuum (or in some sort of space,
if you prefer a less linear metaphor).  The assumption being made
is that (some) people are familiar with the influences listed and they'll
have these in mind to a greater or lesser extent when listening to
whatever it is (Zappa, Zorn, etc..).  If the music seems too derivative,
then it isn't making a very interesting comment on the ideas presented in
the music that inspired it.

[this is, of course, completely relative to everything, blah blah blah,
qualifying statement qualifying statement...]  :)

- -jascha


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 16:45:19 -0500 (EST)
From: ia zha nah er vesen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Opening acts

>
> Compared to most other composer/performers who've started labels that
> present work by other musicians, no one comes close to supporting as wide a
> range of work.

[agreement]

- -jascha



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 13:50:58 -0800
From: "Schwitterz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "the music itself" & expectati0ns

>I'm more concerned with issues of taste & reception than "the music
>itself".  For most purposes, "the music itself" isn't as important as a
>listeners experience of it, nor are the two easily separated (in many ways
>"the music itself" doesn't exist apart from our perception of it).  This is
>why I wrote
>
>>How the music sounds to a listener is what matters
>
>rather than just "how the music sounds."
>


This issue seems especially difficult when looked at from the perspective of
the composer. Should the focus be more on "the music itself" or "how the
music sounds to a listener?" How are either of these parameters defined?

sZ


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 17:05:48 -0500
From: "ALAN E. KAYSER" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Opening acts

ia zha nah er vesen wrote:

> >
> > Compared to most other composer/performers who've started labels
> that
> > present work by other musicians, no one comes close to supporting as
> wide a
> > range of work.
>
> [agreement]
>
> -jascha
>

Yes, this is an aspect of Mr. Zorn that should not be overlooked.
Tzadik has presented many deserving artists with a chance to get their
works out to the public.  Friedlander, Feldman, Krakauer, Ribot, etc
etc.  Hats off to him.  If his many releases allow him the $$$ to put
out works by others, then he deserves to be supported.

Alan

> -




- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 01:10:43 -0600
From: "Glenn Astarita" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: gerry hemingway...

- ----------
>Summary: Buy all of Hemmingway's Hat Art stuff if you can find
it....classic, brilliant, captivating...incredible ensemble work.....of
course his work with Braxton et al is exceptional....


glenn

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 10:48:00 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: NEED To Contact SAI KONG ...

Hello,

Please pardon the non-musical use of bandwidth & the cross-posting ...

I urgently need to get in contact with SAI KONG, who used to be at
U. Stony Brook, NY <[e-mail]>, but has now changed email
addresses ...

SAI, if you see this, PLEASE contact me.

Thanks


- -Patrick



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 04:41:28 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: sun ra

In a message dated 97-11-08 11:34:11 EST, you write:

<< If I recall correctly 150 is probably on the low side.  CDs are great, but
 vinyl was more fun!!! >>

I'm sure you are correct about that being on the low side.  As great as the
Evidence re-issues are, I have a feeling that we will be lucky to see half of
his recordings released on CD.  You are correct about the vinyl too.  Those
hand-painted El Saturns will always be one-of-a-kinds that CD-sized
duplications will never touch.

=dgasque=

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #152
*******************************


 To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to
       "[e-mail]"
 with
       "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest"
 in the body of the message.

 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

 A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
 subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest"
 in the commands above with "zorn-list".

 Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in
 pub/lists/zorn-list/archive.  These are organized by date.