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1998-03-08
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From: John Zorn List
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 1997 4:52 PM
To: zorn-list-digest@xmission.com
Subject: John Zorn List V2 #147
John Zorn List Wednesday, November 5 1997 Volume 02 : Number 147
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 15:26:24 -0800
From: Jeff Spirer <jeffs@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Arcana (was Re: Bailey + d'n'b)
At 07:17 PM 11/5/97 +0000, Scott Russell wrote:
>This album is pretty amazing from whichever way you look at it. It's
>very much in the same area as his other recent disc Saisoro (with Ruins)
>and Arcana (with Laswell and Williams), ie unusual collaborations.
Well since I am here, I thought I might mention, in my "shill" persona,
that the second Arcana disk is out on Axiom. This doesn't have Bailey, but
it does have Laswell and Williams along with a host of other people
including Pharoah Sanders, Byard Lancaster, Graham Haynes, Buckethead (who
does a surprisingly good job in this company), and Nicky Skopelitis.
Unfortunately, Tony Williams died before it was finished and a session with
Ornette never was recorded. Any way, readers of this list might like it.
Some more information is at the Axiom Web Site (URL below.)
End of "shill" mode, back to making erroneous statements.
Jeff Spirer
Axiom/Material
http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 18:24:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: Zappa
On Wed, 5 Nov 1997, Jason Edward Kocol wrote:
> I am keeping in mind that everyone is entitled to their own
> opinion, yet I find nothing mediocre about someone whose intention
> everytime he picked up the guitar was to play something he had never
> played before; to actually improvise and not just string together in
> random order a bunch of "prepared licks" that most rock (using "rock"
> loosely in Zappa's case) guitar players are guilty of, barring the
> accusations that he was a "sloppy player".
I don't think Zappa is mediocre, but this is hardly exceptional among
musicians discussed on a list devoted to improvised music, eh? And I do
think there are mediocre free players.
Chris Hamilton
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 18:30:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: John Zorn List V2 #141
On Wed, 5 Nov 1997, Nathan M Earixson wrote:
> I think the assumption that anyone who "really gives Zappa a chance" is
> instantly going to become your stereotypical rabid-Zappa-fan who laughs
> incessantly at "joke" songs like "Why does it hurt when I pee", is just
> plain foolish.
In reason years, I've come to think that the scatological lyrics are
actually the most "avant-garde" part of Zappa's post-60's work. They make
me really uncomfortable, and there's very little in music that can do
that. The closest analogue I can think of in the arts is some of Robert
Crumb's comix work.
Chris Hamilton
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 18:52:14 -0500
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Gregg Bendian's Interzone
Christopher Hamilton wrote:
> > [Closet prog fans should check out the Interzone disc on Eremite; I
> was
> > a little worried about myself when I thought this reminded me of
> Pierre
> > Moerlan's Gong (circa "Expresso II") but since then I've heard that
> this
> > was Gregg's "tribute" to Gentle Giant (and thus I wasn't really that
> far
> > off the mark).]
>
> So, I've heard some really good things about this disc, but, as a
> closet
> punk, the Gentle Giant connection set off big "AVOID" signs flashing
> in my
> head. Will those of us not into (most) prog be offended by this
> record?
Well, I don't think this sounds very much like Gentle Giant, but I don't
*know* very much GG, having been turned off like you. To me Interzone
sounds a lot like Pierre Moerlan's Gong... interesting instrumental rock
which just happens to feature a vibraphone as the lead voice. And yes,
the unison vibes'n'guitar lines are pretty amazing. It's not in the
same league as your average Nels Cline Trio release for sheer sonic
squall, but then, that wasn't Gregg's goal. "Interzone" is a fine
little disc but I can't honestly say it made a huge impression on me...
sounds like they just set out to have some fun and did so. Kinda like
the Stephen Perkins-led Banyan record with Nels, Money Mark and Mike
Watt in that sense. Your mileage may vary.
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 18:21:30 -0500
From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net>
Subject: Re: Gregg Bendian's Interzone
> So, I've heard some really good things about this disc, but, as a closet
> punk, the Gentle Giant connection set off big "AVOID" signs flashing in my
> head. Will those of us not into (most) prog be offended by this record?
>
> Chris Hamilton
oh, no. not at all. It's a avant-garde jazz album with the kind of mix
of composition and improvisation that people like Dave Douglas and Tim
Berne do. It has very little to do with prog music.
-Tom Pratt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 18:18:04 -0600
From: "Glenn Astarita" <gastarit@comm.net>
Subject: Re: Avant . . .
RE: Avant.....any comments on the "Harras" disk ? Also, It's hit and miss
with this catalogue far as price goes. I walk into Tower and see some
Avant disk's selling for normal prices while others are $20 and above..
- HARRAS: D. Bailey, J. Zorn, W. Parker (1995 - Avant, Avan 056 (CD))
glenn
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 19:16:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: John Zorn List V2 #141
On Wed, 5 Nov 1997, Christopher Hamilton wrote:
> In reason years, I've come to think that the scatological lyrics are
^^^^^^
Agh! Too much Kant! I meant "recent".
Chris Hamilton
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 16:35:29 -0800
From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Heteroclismic Z's
Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org> wrote:
I suggest people who want to know where Zappa came from read his
autobiography, "The Real Frank Zappa Book." It gives lots and lots of
insight as to where his influences came from and what made him be so
heteroclismic in the first place (though the proper form of adjective might
be 'heteroclitic'). Its often these details that make you understand and
appreciate the artist more than if you just spout off that he writes too
much music that sounds the same.
At least some of those of us who don't care for (most of) Zappa's music are
unlikely to swayed by a list of influences, no matter how heartfelt on
Zappa's part.
Statements of influence don't make the resulting music any more or less
listenable; it's just an interesting fact about the person who made it. If
influence was all it took to make great music, than all of those people
studying Coltrane & Beethoven at universities would be the people making
the most important music of our time & that's just not always the case.
How the music sounds to a listener is what matters, not any intellectual
claims made for it.
For me, Zappa was a good guitarist who was often seduced by the competing
urges to tell potentially offensive jokes in the name of free speech and to
write post-serial classical music in the name of being taken seriously. I
think many of the jokes are sophomoric (I'm glad he was willing to go to
the wall for free speech, but the jokes were seriously stupid) and I think
a lot of the contemporary classical music he wrote was often little more
than derivative and lacked the creative spark of many of the works he used
as models or of his own guitar playing.
If Zappa's interest in offensive humor gets folks interested in Lenny Bruce
or his interest in contemporary composition spurs further interest in
Varese, Dolphy, Boulez, Nancarrow, Cage, (to name some of the composers who
are obvious and/or oft-named influenced) and the like, that's all to the
good, but Zappa's own work in these areas does not NOT seem to me to be
ground-breaking art. The jokes don't build to form a complex whole like
Bruce's concerts did & the compositions, while very competent examples of
an ongoing compositional tradition, were not pioneering work.
For me, there's simply better instances in the same veins to turn to.
& I'll turn to them now, and avoid responding to further posts about Zappa.
Bests,
Herb
Herb Levy
herb@eskimo.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 18:50:41 -0600 (CST)
From: Mike Shepherd <rein0065@frank.mtsu.edu>
Subject: RE: Avant . . .
On Wed, 5 Nov 1997, Brandt Gebhardt wrote:
> Speaking of Cake Like, anyone interested in trading for Delicious can
> Email me privately. This band is compared to Melt-Banana on the Forced
> exposure page. Generous, indeed.
>
> Brandt
>
I wouldn't say generous so much as inaccurate and misleading. Both bands
are excellent at what they do, it just happens that those are two very
different things. I think that Delicious is just that, although this
year's follow up was pretty bad.
And speaking of Melt Banana, if anyone has any MB records that they no
longer want, especially the splits with Discordance Axis or GodCo, or the
pre-Skin Graft LP, please let me know. - Mike
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 18:54:26 -0600 (CST)
From: Mike Shepherd <rein0065@frank.mtsu.edu>
Subject: Re:Gregg Bendian's Interzone
On Wed, 5 Nov 1997, Christopher Hamilton wrote:
> So, I've heard some really good things about this disc, but, as a closet
> punk, the Gentle Giant connection set off big "AVOID" signs flashing in my
> head. Will those of us not into (most) prog be offended by this record?
>
> Chris Hamilton
>
It depends on the Gentle Giant stuff that's being paid tribute to. In my
opinion, it doesn't get much better than the Power and the Glory, but most
of the other stuff is just a little heavy on the porgressive meandering.
"It's only romantic 'cause it never works."
- Harriet the Spy
*********************************
Mike Shepherd
rein0065@frank.mtsu.edu
Middle Tennessee State University
(615) 898-3652
*********************************
- -
------------------------------
End of John Zorn List V2 #147
*****************************