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utah-firearms-digest    Wednesday, August 22 2001    Volume 02 : Number 215




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 12:57:05 -0600
From: Charles C Hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Link debunking Kellerman's "study"

For any who would like a nice, brief, article debunking Kellerman's "43
times" numbers, the following link is provided by wagc-ut member...

- --------- Forwarded message ----------

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,7217,00.html
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 11:40:34 -0600
From: Charles C Hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: Fw: NEWS - NSW Tingle on stolen guns

No doubt the anti-gun side will use this as evidence that even gun clubs
ought to be shut down.

As a personal asside, back when gun racks were more common than gun
safes, my step father refused to have one, incisting they only made it
convenient for theives to steal all your guns at once.  Instead, our guns
were spread throughout the entire house, tucked into the backs of clothes
closets, tool closets, pantries, and food storage rooms.  We never had a
break in, so I don't know if it "worked," but I always figured another
benefit of such storage was that nearly every bedroom (and many other
rooms) in the home had a gun in it--generally with some ammo nearby--in
the event of a home invasion.  We stored our guns this way from the time
my younger brother was 6 and through a dozen grandchildren (my nieces and
nephews) coming to visit regularly.  My grandfather had stored his guns
similarly.  We were simply all taught proper gun safety.  Interestingly
(as long as I'm on a personal note) my step-father really disliked BB and
pellet guns.  He considered them too dangerous.  Instead, I had my first
.22 when I was about 7 or 8 (late by many standards, I know).  It lived
in my step-father's closet and was taken out only to go  shooting.
Sometime a year or two later, rather than taking it to put it away
following a trip to the shooting pit, my step-father had me put the gun
in my closet.  It, and later a 12 ga. and various deer rifles, lived in
my closet from then on.  I was nearly 18 before I ever had a BB gun.

Of course, everyone's situation is unique, and these days a good gun
safe, properly secured, is probably desireable for many peaple for a
variety of reasons.

- --------- Forwarded message ----------

From: "SSAA" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 12:44 AM
Subject: NEWS - NSW Tingle on stolen guns


> MEDIA RELEASE   July 25 2001
> FIREARMS ARE SAFER AT HOME!
> Firearm owners claimed today that the theft of 14 handguns from a
> Queensland shooting club had demonstrated "the ignorant folly" of the
> campaign by anti-gun groups for firearms to be stored in gun clubs or
> central repositories.
>
> Shooters Party MLC John Tingle said the constant claim of the
> anti-gunners had been that central storage of guns, in repositories and
> clubs, rather than in the homes of their licensed owners would keep the
> guns safe and out of harm's way.  Mr Tingle said Sunday night's theft
of
> 14 semi-automatic pistols from a club south of Brisbane, had shown just
> how silly and uninformed this argument was.
>
> "We have tried again and again to explain that central storage of guns
> just creates a supermarket for criminals." he said.  "The concentration
> of large numbers of firearms in the one place allows the criminal who
> breaks into that place a wonderful opportunity to pick and choose the
> best.  This is illustrated in the Queensland incident, where the
thieves
> stole high quality handguns, including Smith and Wessons, Glocks and
> Rugers.  What those efficient, concealable guns are going to be used
for
> now, is anybody's guess - but one thing is certain; and that is that
> they're in the hands of criminals, to be used in crime, or even
> terrorist activities during the CHOGM meeting in Brisbane in October."
>
> The firearms were stolen after the club had closed up on Sunday night,
> and even though they had been stored in a locked strong-room, it is
> reported that the thieves broke in through a rear door, and forced
their
> way into the strong-room.
>
> "With our present rules about safe storage, legally owned guns are
> secured in locked safes in the homes of their legal owners, scattered
> throughout the community" Mr Tingle said.  "Usually a thief has no way
> of knowing which guns a particular firearm owner has; and if the thief
> does succeed in breaking into a house, he then has to try to force a
> substantial safe, not knowing whether it will ultimately be worth his
> while, or not.  It would take weeks or months to acquire the sort of
> firearms that were stolen in Brisbane in a matter of minutes."
>
> Mr Tingle claimed that by campaigning to have guns left locked in
> unattended club houses, or central repositories, the anti-gun element
> were showing massive ignorance of the facts of safe storage; and, if
> their campaign succeeded, they would put the community at greater
> risk.   Statistically, the greater numbers of firearm thefts occurred
in
> places where large numbers were kept, including defence establishments,
> police stations and security organisations.
>
> "Thankfully, Governments have had the good sense to reject the central
> repository idea" he said "and this dangerous and worrying theft should
> knock the idea on the head for good.  Licensed firearms owners are
> responsible for their registered firearms, and the safest place for
> those firearms to be stored, when not in use, is in the homes of their
> owners."
> Contact:   John Tingle   Parliament House  9230 3059
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 16:58:45 -0600
From: Charles C Hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: The World's New Crime Capital

This is an interesting and potentially useful way to view crime stats...

- --------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Jake" <[e-mail]>
>
>Found an interesting article in "American Handgunner" today.  According
to
>the article the Leiden University in Holland conducted what it called a
>"International Crime Victims Survey".  It's number one most dangerous
>country was Australia with more than 30 percent of it's citizens falling
>victim to violent crime.  England (including Wales) was second with 26
>percent.  Holland, Sweden, and Canada round out the top five.  The
United
>States didn't even make the top ten (even though we have more guns
>per-person than any of the others).   This is a trend that can be seen
on
>a state-to-state level here in the US.  Those states with the most
>regulation concerning private ownership of firearms have the highest
>national crime rates.  Those with relaxed standards have lower crime
>rates.(This is an incredibly brief summary of Dr. Lotts book "More Guns,
>Less Crime".)  Just something to think about.
>
>Jake
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 10:49:12 -0600
From: Charles C Hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Broadband ISP company to avoid--off topic

Forgive me an off topic post, but I hope someone can avoid gettng burned.

A company in the SL area called BBSC (Broadband Business Solutions, or
something) offers wireless broadband, internet service to businesses.
They recently purchased all assetts of CoGoLink which had been offering
wireless broadband internet service to both business and residential
customers.  CoGoLink then declared bankruptcy defaulting on pre-paid
contracts.  I know of several people who have been burned, having paid in
advance for 1 to 2 years (after having purchased fairly expensive
equipment required for the service) as little as 6 months ago.  Jsut due
to dumb luck, my prepaid contract expired just before service was
disconnected.  However, having purchased the radio equipment (there was
no rental option), I now have over $500 dollars worth of equipment that
is not doing much good, though I may be able to use it with another
service at some point in the future.  I had planned to amortorize that
cost over at least 3 years of service.  Over the single year that I got,
I eneded up with pretty expensive internet sevice this last year.

I consider it unethical, and immoral on the parts of both CoGoLink and
BBSC to be involved in this kind of transfer of assetts (but not
liabilities) knowing full well such a transfer would make it physically
impossible for CoGoLink to honor existing contracts and thus needing to
declare bankruptcy.

BBSC is not offered to residential customers, but I would highly suggest
not doing business with them for any reason.  You may also want to avoid
doing business with CentrixNet Solutions and HomePipeline. These last two
companies are run by the same people who ran CoGoLink. All three
companies shared office space here in the Union Park Plaza.  I have not
investigated who all the officers of both companies are, but a Mac
Adamson is/was the VP of CoGoLink.

In the SL are, there are two other wireless options available.
Sprintbroadband offers wirless service, but Sprint has been labeled as
being anti-gun.  Networld.com also offers wireless service.

I had wireless service through CoGoLink for a year.  Other than the
unethical business practices on their part, I was happy with the service
and can tell you that wireless is a very workable option for high speed
internet access if DSL or Cable Modem is not available in your area.  But
again, I do reccommend you avoid any business dealings with BBSC, or
anyone associated with CoGoLink, including CentrixNet Solutions and
HomePipeline.

Just my opinions.

Charles.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 17:06:38 -0600
From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: FW: Quick project

Angel Shamaya is asking for feedback from the pro-gun community with the
following poll on https://www.keepandbeararms.com/default.asp

Drop by and give him your opinion.


Given the facts that alcohol prohibition was a complete flop, most
gun-related deaths are drug related and the war on some drugs is being used
to systematically strip you of your rights, do you support the
decriminalization of illicit drugs?

    NO.

    Yes on "soft drugs" like marijuana.

    YES on all drugs. The prohibition is an unconstitutional farce and the
bane of a free society.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 12:16:29 -0600
From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Scumbag

http://www.lewrockwell.com/elkins/elkins23.html

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 13:14:58 -0600
From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: The strange case of United States v. Miller

The strange case of United States v. Miller
- ----------
by Dr. Michael S. Brown
   Authoritarians like to claim that the Supreme Court's 1938
   Miller decision asserts that there is no individual
   right to bear arms. But the decision was rather limited
   in its findings, and didn't touch on the question of
   individual vs. collective rights. (08/06/01)
http://www.newsmax.com/commentmax/articles/Dr._Michael_S._Brown.shtml

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 22:25:06 -0600
From: charles hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: FW: Tomorrow's News: Marksmanship Ban

- ----------------
Charles Hardy
<[e-mail]>

- --------- Forwarded message ----------
- ----------

Forest Closures Planned, Executed
Forest Closures Planned, Executed
Forest Closures Planned, Executed


August 8, 2001



by Alan Korwin, Author
Gun Laws of America

An anonymous Associated Press story, produced and timed for release by
federal bureaucrats running the Arizona Tonto National Forest, will
appear in many of tomorrow's newspapers nationwide, announcing the
closure of 80,000 acres of the forest to outdoor marksmanship.  The
areas to be closed, adjacent to the Phoenix metro area, have been in
continuous use for decades, without incident, by citizens conducting
traditional firearms practice.

Following a three-month intensive amelioration drive, lead by recently
appointed Tonto Supervisor Karl Siderits, in which area residents were
repeatedly assured that no blanket actions were likely, the federal
agents did what activists suspected had been planned from the outset --
the total restriction of marksmanship in the commonly used and easily
accesible sites that people use to practice and gain proficiency with
arms.  The move goes into effect Monday, and is expected to be
precedential for National Forests around the country, which have been
following the developments closely.

Safety is cited by Siderits and others as their main concern, though no
concrete examples of such a problem have been brought forward.  Forest
agents claim in the article, and have claimed publicly for months, to
have witnessed hundreds of examples of criminal conduct with firearms on
Forest Service land (e.g., shooting across roads, which is dangerous,
stupid and strictly illegal).  When asked about arrests, citations or
any other disciplinary actions of the purported crimes, Siderits, PR
Officer James Payne, and various rangers admit to knowing of none.

Although Tonto officials regularly claim they have insufficient law
enforcement to do anything about the alleged violators they supposedly
frequently witness, additional law enforcement people will be engaged,
according to the report, to enforce the new land closures.  In essence,
the plan is to punish the innocent for alleged acts of unidentified
guilty parties.

Unlike less free zones in America, where the right to bear arms is
heavily repressed, outdoor marksmanship is routine in Arizona, with
countless thousands of residents taking to open terrain on a regular
basis.  The National Forests are one of the main areas used, with some
larger impromptu ranges in use since before WWII.

The Tonto Forest comprises 2.9 million acres of public land, and
contrary to its name, is primarily unbroken expanses of open desert.  In
effect, the closures are expected to force marksmanship away from well
known and well worn target areas that are easy to reach, to untouched
pristine areas of desert further inland.  One justification cited by
officials is that they haven't closed anywhere near as much public land
as federal agents in California have.  Dirt bikers, ATVs and all other
land users, including hunters, will still have access to the restricted
areas.

Unmentioned by the anonymous AP "writer" is the fact that 54 dead bodies
were removed from Tonto National Forest last year -- a typical count for
a year -- none of them related to outdoor marksmanship or recreational
shooters in the forest.  Also unmentioned are marksmanship education
programs for the public and the state's school systems, and
establishment of ranges, which were prominent issues during the long
running public comment and town-hall style amelioration campaign.

Details on the amelioration campaign, a joint statement by sportsmen in
Arizona and the Arizona State Rifle and Pistol Association concerning
the planned (now implemented) closures, and direct contact information
for the responsible federal bureaucrats, press the New Stuff button on
our website.

###

Alan Korwin
Bloomfield Press
"We publish the gun laws."
4718 E. Cactus #440
Phoenix, AZ 85032
602-996-4020
800-707-4020
[e-mail]
http://www.gunlaws.com



Coming Soon at Bloomfield Press:
Coming Soon at Bloomfield Press:

A long overdue line of books on political activism:

How to stop winning debates and start
winning friends and influencing people.
Check our website in the next few weeks
for this sorely needed critical addition
to the gun-rights struggle.

http://www.gunlaws.com
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:28:43 -0600
From: Charles C Hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: AOL gets help in its guns-at-work lawsuit

- --------- Forwarded message ----------
So how is it that Utahns Against Gun violence can
claim that they are not anti-gun after joining in
the lawsuit against AOL employees fired for
possessing guns on company leased property?


AOL gets help in its guns-at-work lawsuit

http://www.standard.net/standard/news/news_story.html?sid=000108082320453
74245+cat=news+template=news1.html

Employers groups file "friend of the court" briefs

Thr, Aug 9, 2001 00:00:00

By TIM GURRISTER
Standard-Examiner staff

OGDEN -- A consortium of employers groups have joined the fray backing
America Online in its
defense of a guns-at-work lawsuit brought by former employees of the
Internet service provider"s
Ogden call center.

Last September, Luke Hansen, Paul Carlson and Jason Melling were fired
from AOL"s 2261 Grant
Avenue plant when they transferred guns between their vehicles, preparing
for a round of target
shooting after work.

They filed suit against the company for its gun ban policy, claiming
violation of their Second
Amendment rights to bear arms.

The case is still pending in motion and discovery phases before 2nd
District Judge Roger Dutson,
with no court dates currently set.

Two "friend of the court" or amicus briefs were filed earlier this year
by statewide employer
groups in support of AOL by the Utah Society of Human Resource Managers
and the Utah Manufacturers
Association.

The former is represented by three-term Utah Gov. Cal Rampton.

Now Rampton"s firm, Jones, Waldo, Holbrook and McDonough, has been joined
in their amicus brief by
the following:

The Chamber Ogden/Weber, the Salt Lake Area Chamber of Commerce, the Utah
Restaurant Association,
the Employers Council and Utahns Against Gun Violence. The updated amicus
brief was filed Tuesday.

The business and community groups are neither pro-gun or anti-gun, said
Michael O"Brien, a Jones
Waldo employment lawyer also involved in the amicus brief, in a press
release.

Their position, O"Brien said, is a recognition that guns at work are a
sensitive issue and each
employer should be allowed to assess its own safety and security needs as
well as employee morale,
employee culture and other factors.

"Once an employer does so, an employee can decide whether or not to work
there," he said. "This is
not simply a matter of gun owners" rights, because employers and
co-workers have rights too."

The fired employees" lawsuit against AOL could possibly force employers
to allow guns on their
premises against their will, O"Brien said.

Also in response to the lawsuit, several gun organizations, The Utah Gun
Owners Alliance, and a
national organization, Gun Owners of America, called for boycotts of AOL.

The 20-year-old GOA boasts 300,000 members, according to a spokesman for
the group, making it one
of the nation"s largest. The Utah group is a fledgling organization
counting several thousand
members.




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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 15:51:28 -0600
From: Jim Hudgins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Bush admin gets top rating

I am new to this list and appologize if a link to this information has
already been provided but there is a refreshing change to government
policy concerning gun ownership.
 http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0808-103.html  Maybe
we can look forward to some reversals of gun laws instituted under the
past few administrations.

Jim Hudgins

- --
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule."
H.L. Mencken



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:57:49 -0600
From: charles hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fundraiser reminder, volunteers needed

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A reminder about the fundraiser party tomorrow (Saturday) evening at
Janalee's house for Glen and Frank.  If you attend, be sure to take your
own BBQ main course and a side dish to share.
Also Glen and Frank are looking for volunteers to help at the convention
by passing out literature, wearing T shirts, poll watchers, etc.  You
need not be a delegate and in fact, for positions like poll watcher, it
is advantagous to have some people who are not delegates.  Please let
them know if you can help.

It's a Party and
You're Invited






Day:  Saturday, August 11


Time:  6 p.m.


Place:  Janalee Tobias' Home, South Jordan
            1238 West Jordan River Drive (11050 South)
            (Jordan River Estates)

DETAILS:

BYOB (Bring Your Own Barbeque Item) and something to  share (potluck).
The purpose of this party is to have some fun and to encourage people who
are delegates and those who are not delegates to come and make a donation
to Frank and Glen and to come help at the state convention.  They will
have assignments/literature for people.

The party is also to celebrate the victories we had this year at the
state legislature and to get to know each other.

Parking is available along the street.  You can park throughout the
subdivision and along 1300 West.  Just don't park in front of someone's
driveway.

I've been practicing water conservation, so ignore the brown spots and my
dead flowers in my lawn!

For those who want to make s'mores and roast weinies (frankfurters, not
liberals), there's a firepit available.

Feel free to pass this invitation around.

- ----------------
Charles Hardy
<[e-mail]>
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<H1 align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D3>A reminder about the fundraiser party =
tomorrow=20
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attend,=20
be sure to take your own BBQ main course and a side dish to=20
share.</FONT></H1>
<DIV align=3Dleft>Also Glen and Frank are looking for volunteers to help at=
 the=20
convention by passing out literature, wearing T shirts, poll watchers,=20
etc.  You need not be a delegate and in fact, for positions like poll=
=20
watcher, it is advantagous to have some people who are not delegates. =
=20
Please let them know if you can help.</DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft> </DIV>
<H1>It's a Party and<BR>You're Invited</H1></CENTER><A=20
href=3D"http://attach2.egroups.com/group/wagc-ut/attach/1633004/404/gs-163=
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<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
<H2>Day:  Saturday, August 11</H2><BR>
<H2>Time:  6 p.m.</H2><BR>
<H2>Place:  Janalee Tobias' Home, South Jordan</H2>
<DIV>            1238 West =
Jordan=20
River Drive (11050 South) </DIV>
<DIV>            (=
Jordan=20
River Estates)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter>DETAILS:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft>BYOB (Bring Your Own Barbeque Item) and something to =
; share=20
(potluck).  The purpose of this party is to have some fun and to =
encourage=20
people who are delegates and those who are not delegates to come and =
make a=20
donation to Frank and Glen and to come help at the state convention.  =
They=20
will have assignments/literature for people.</DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft> </DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft>The party is also to celebrate the victories we had this =
year at=20
the state legislature and to get to know each other.</DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft> </DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft>Parking is available along the street.  You can park=
=20
throughout the subdivision and along 1300 West.  Just don't park in =
front=20
of someone's driveway.  </DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft> </DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft>I've been practicing water conservation, so ignore the =
brown=20
spots and my dead flowers in my lawn!</DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft> </DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft>For those who want to make s'mores and roast weinies=
=20
(frankfurters, not liberals), there's a firepit available.  </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Feel free to pass this invitation=20
around.</DIV><BR>----------------<BR>Charles Hardy<BR><<A=20
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A>><BR></BODY><=
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:26:13 -0600
From: Charles C Hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Deadline to file for local office

Just a reminder that today is the deadline to file for non-partisan
municipal offices such as city council and mayor.  If you have not
already done so, please at least call you city recorder and ask which
positions are up for election this year and who has filed for each
position.  It is not unusual for no one but the incumbant to file.
Sometimes the incumbant doesn't file and only a single person does.  I
currently have one city council member serving who was elected, for the
first time, completely unoppossed, two years ago.  Most of these
positions are part time with meetings in the evenings.  A small number
may be full time.

Even if you cannot and/or do not want to commit the resources to running
a full fledged campaign, simply filing in such a situation may win you
the seat or, at very least, put the incumbant in the position of having
to take public positions on various issues that he could avoid if he runs
unoppossed.  How do you feel about photo-cop?  If you live in SLCo do you
favor or oppose the idea of all cities and the county consolodating fire,
police, paramedic, garbage, and road service into county wide units?  Do
you favor or opposse local zoning to allow gun ranges in your city or to
protect existing ranges?  Do you favor or oppose light rail expansion in
your city?  And so on and so forth.  These are the issues city councils
control or greatly influence.

The cost to file is minimal.  In my city it cost $10 and takes all of 10
minutes to file for city council.  In return for that you are guaranteed
to have your name on at least the primary ballot (or if so few people
file that no primary is needed, the general ballot), a full "A" size,
color plot of the entire city, showing voting districts and precincts, a
full and complete copy of the current city budget, and a nice candidate's
packet with all the other paperwork you will need.

PLEASE, especially if no one, or only a single person has filed for a
seat, take the time to file for office.  If you find out next week that
someone you would rather support is also running for the same seat, you
can withdraw.  But if you don't file today, you can't file later.

Charles
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Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:30:13 -0600
From: Charles C Hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: CCW and weapons' storage at GOP Convention

All,

I've just gotten off the phone with Scott Parker at the State GOP office.
 At present there are no firm plans to send anything via usmail to notify
delegates that CCW will be prohibited during at least part of the
upcoming GOP State Convention due to the presense of VP Cheney.   (See SL
Trib article at <http://sltrib.com/2001/aug/08172001/utah/123396.htm>) He
is convinced that the Secret Service, used to holding events in other big
gun States like Texas, Montanna, etc, can maintain security without
offending anyone.  But we all know they are not going to let CCW into the
convention hall.  This means, at the very least, that anyone carrying a
gun will be required to find someplace to leave it before they are
allowed to enter the hall.  For most delegates this will mean taking it
out to leave in their cars.

This presents a couple of problems.  1-It is possible some number of
delegates may use TRAX or other mass transit to get to the convention and
NOT have a car in which to leave their gun.  2-A car is about the least
secure storage device available.  I'd hate to have a CCW weapons stolen
from a car during the State GOP convention and later used in a crime.
3-This leaves people unarmed as they walk through the parking lot.

I told Scott that I firmly believed the State GOP should step up and
honor our RKBA by providing a secure storage facility inside the
convention center, but outside the Secret Service secure area.  This is
not an Olympic Venue so storage areas are mandatory under State law if
they are going to prohibit weapons.  I suspect this storage could be
provided for all of a few hundered dollars to rent some lockers and hire
a police officer or other appropriate person to run it.  Scott was not
oppossed to the idea, but was not rushing to say it was something they
wanted to do, either.

Please, give Scott (or any other State GOP official) a call, or drop
him/them an email letting them know you expect the GOP to honor its
committment to RKBA and the laws of the State of Utah by providing a
storage facility for CCW weapons.  Not only is this a matter of honoring
the law and the platform, but I believe the GOP's actions on this issue
will send a strong message one way or the other.  To prohibit weapons and
not provide storage provides fodder to the anti-self-defense media and
lobbyists.  "Even the Republicans don't let those loons with licenses
into their conventions.  Why should we have to let them into our stores,
apartment complexes, etc?"  OTOH, to provide storage sends a powerful
pro-gun and pro-law-abiding message.  "We have no control over SS
restrictions.  But we respect people's right to defend themselves and
will provide storage facilities for any legally carried weapons in the
event the SS prohibits private guns in the convention hall."  And it sets
an important precedence.  There are some number of places and events
where we simply are not--for the foreseeable future--going to be able to
CCW.  Do we want safe, secure, storage for our weapons at such times and
places, or do we want to have to leave guns in cars or even at home?

Please contact Scott Parker and other GOP officials.

Scott Parker and other State GOP officials can be reached at the State
GOP office here in SLC.  The phone numbers are:
801-533-9777--phone
801-533-0327--fax

Scott's email is mailto:[e-mail].

Charles

PS, Please note that while the SL Trib article suggest that delegates
will be allowed to bring their guns in after the VP leaves and before
voting starts, this is ONLY the voting for candidates and resolutions.
Voting on agenda and rules (ofttimes some of the most important votes
cast) has always taken place first thing.  Anyone who chooses to boycott
the convention hall until they can enter with their CCW will almost
certainly miss voting on the rules and agenda.  While the decisions about
when are where to carry a gun and whether to go someplace a gun is
prohibited are all intensely personal decisions, I can only hope we don't
suffer too much of a disadvantage when voting on rules and agenda due to
our people not being in the hall because of secret service restrictions
on CCW.
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Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 00:31:16 -0600
From: charles hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Janalee on the Radio

Jim Dexter, talk host on KTKK radio, 630 on your AM dial will have as his
guests this Monday regarding bill 328, on the phone Leroy Pyle, the
writer of " a new sheriff in town" and Sheriff Richie Mack, in studio
Jana Lee Tobias of Women against Gun control.

Please tune in to listen and to call in with questions.


- ----------------
Charles Hardy
<[e-mail]>
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Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:46:40 -0600
From: charles hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Gun Storage at GOP State Convention this Weekend

All,

I'm pleased to announce that there will be provisions to safely, securely
store your self defense firearms at this Saturday's State GOP Convention.
 As you are aware, due to the presence of VP Dick Cheney as the keynote
speaker, all weapons (except Secret Service and on duty LEOs we presume)
will be banned from the convention hall until after the VP has finished
his remarks and left the building.  The secret service will have metal
detectors to screen for weapons and the secret service along with local,
county, and state police will be responsible for securing the building.
Once the VP finishes and leaves, the convention should be opened back up
for unrestricted carry of legal CCW.

While the exact location of the storage area is not yet known, it will
most likely be in front of the convention center under some kind of
canopy or tent and will be well signed and easy to find.  Metal lockers
will be available and Clark Aposhian, head of the Utah Self Defense
Instructors Network (US-DIN) along with a couple of State LEOs will be
manning the area continuously.  A sand pit/bullet catcher will be
available for safely clearing weapons before they are stored.

We don't yet know the exact details of how checking of weapons will be
handled, but have been assured that whatever mechanism is used will
provide good assurances that only the person who owns the checked weapon
can retrieve it AND will preclude the possibility of the registering of
weapons.  This will likely place great responsibilty on gun owners to NOT
lose or misplace their claim ticket.  I think we are up to that.  :)  But
for the ultra careful, you may want to jot down your weapon's serial
number on someting and keep it seperate from your claim ticket, just as a
last ditch way to prove ownership should the ticket be lost or destroyed
somehow.

The last word I've heard is that no one will be required to show a CCW
permit in order to check and claim weapons.  But, as always, if you
choose to carry concealed without a current, valid, CCW permit, you are
in technical violation of State statute.  However, some form of photo id
may possibly be required and will be needed in order to get your ballots
anyway.  While open (unloaded) carry without a permit is legal, I
personally do not think this event would be the best place to do so.

For those who are not delegates but are planning to attend, be aware that
a $5 fee will be charged for non-delegates to enter the convention hall
and seating will be segregated between delegates and non-delegates.
Obviously, if you are showing up merely to pass out flyers outside the
convention there will be no fees and, I should think no need to disarm,
though all the usual rules about being safe and discreet when CCWing
apply even more so at this event.

(Most candidates would still love to have more help at the
convention--from passing out flyers to maybe even being poll
watchers--and in some cases someone who is not a delegate is a better
choice than a delegate.  So if you are delegate, show up for sure.  If
you are not, and would like to support pro-gun candidates or resolutions,
let me know or just contact the candidate/resolution writer directly.)

Several delegates have plans to offer an amendment to the agenda to add a
short recess following the VP's remarks so that those with checked
weapons can retrieve them and have them on their persons throughout the
rest of the day.  For those who prefer to not retrieve weapons at that
time, the gun check station will be available until shortly after the end
of the convention.

Please note that at least two KEY votes (rules and agenda) will take
place BEFORE the convention hall is opened up to CCW.  I encourage
delegates who CCW to avail themselves of the safe storage so they are
present to cast votes on these issues.  Voting for party officers and
most other business will occur after the secret service re-opens the
hall.

Also, please remember that leaving a loaded weapon in a car is illegal
under Utah law.  Since you would no longer have the weapon in your
immediate control, your CCW permit will not cover it.  Obviously, with
the high level of LEOs and concerns over security (along with common
sense gun safety), the exposition center parking lot is NOT a good place
to unholster, and unload a weapon to legally leave it in the car.  Ditto
for reloaded/reholstering after CCW is allowed.

Again, I encourage those who plan to carry a self defense weapon to
either make use of the storage area or make some other appropriate
arrangment outside the area of the exposition center.

This is the first we've had this type of event in Utah where CCW has been
restricted and the first time secure storage has been provided.  Let's
each do our own part to show that the security needs of high elected
officials and the rights and safety of common citizens are not at such
odds as the liberal press would have us believe.  (It would also be nice
if the storage area did not go completely unused.)  Also, since this is
the first time providing storage of weapons, something may not go as
smooth as we'd think it should.  Please plan to arrive early to have
plenty of time to check weapons, and be patient with Clark and the others
working there.

Thanks.

Charles


- ----------------
Charles Hardy
<[e-mail]>
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------------------------------

End of utah-firearms-digest V2 #215
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