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utah-firearms-digest       Friday, March 3 2000       Volume 02 : Number 182




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Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 08:31:13 -0700
From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: FW: REP. WRIGHT BETRAYAL! H.B 124 Forfeiture

- -----
Subject: REP. WRIGHT BETRAYAL!
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 00:55:42 -0700
From: "Arnold J. Gaunt" <[e-mail]>

PLEASE DISTRIBUTE WIDELY!

Rep. Bill Wright, with shocking contempt for his previous supporters,
crossed enemy lines today to present his forfeiture PRESERVATION and
EXPANSION H.B. 124. Using the tactics of the LEFT, he produced 3rd
Substitute of this bill without warning at the committee hearing
today at 4 P.M.

This substitute was written by Clark Harms, confiscation king of Utah!
Among the provisions Wright/Harms have included is the ability for the
police to pronounce forfeiture immediately upon seizure. NO TRIAL,
NO JURY, NO JUSTICE! ALL POWER TO THE POLICE!

Without delay please contact your Representative and inform him/her
that you have no tolerance for this treachery. Also contact Rep.
Wright and Rep. Swallow (co-sponsor), and express your outrage that
they would attack authentic reform with their counterfeit H.B. 124,
3rd substitute.

I will follow up soon with additional details on this traitorous
assault!

Arnold

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:03:23 -0700
From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: FW: LEG-ALERTS 2-24: The final stretch

- ----------
Today's activities
Tomorrow's votes
Rules Committees
HB 124

TODAY'S ACTIVITIES

HB 176S3 -Weapons Restrictions for Mentally Ill (G. Cox) was passed
by the Senate Judiciary Committee today by a vote of 5-0-1.  It now
goes to the Senate floor for a vote.

SB 32S2 - Marksmanship Tests for Concealed Carry (R. Allen) was held
in the Senate Transportation Committee. Since there are no more
committee meetings, it will not have a committee vote.  Senate rules
prohibit voting on a bill that has not had a committee review.
However, this rule will almost certainly be suspended, allowing a
possible floor vote sometime next week.

HB 296 - Prevention of Retaliatory Lawsuits (Lockhart) was also held
in committee. If Rules are suspended, this bill will likely have a
floor vote next week.


FRIDAY'S VOTES

The following bills are scheduled for a vote on Friday. Please let
your Senator and Representative know how you would like them to vote!

SENATE VOTES
Bills to OPPOSE:
HB 161, Background Checks (Tyler)  - Juvenile Brady
HB 173, Forfeiture (Buckner) - Forfeiture of computer equipment
HB 245, Safety in Public Schools (Wright) - treats non-violent
offenses as more serious than violent offenses!

Bills to SUPPORT:
HB 199, Limitation of Liability (Throckmorton) - prevents frivolous
lawsuits against gun manufacturers.


HOUSE VOTES
Bills to OPPOSE:
HB 124 - Asset Forfeiture Revisions (Wright) - This bill makes
Utah's already abusive asset forfeiture laws even worse by allowing
for the seizure of property with absolutely NO due process!
SB 72 - Restricted Persons (Spencer) - Juvenile Brady


RULES COMMITTEES

With one exception, review committee hearings are over for this
session.  Bills will now have floor votes ONLY.  Of course there
are hundreds of bills still awaiting votes!  Will all of them
have votes?  Which ones will be heard when?

These decisions are made by the RULES committees.  The Rules Committees
(House Rules and Senate Rules) prioritize bills and send them to the
floor for a vote.  They can also "hold" a bill in Rules long enough
that it does NOT have a floor vote, and therefore doesn't become law.
(Legislators can vote to have a bill released from Rules, however.)

Obviously, the Rules Committees play a very important role, especially
during the final days of the session.  So it's essential that you let
members of the Rules Committees know which bills you would like to see
released for a final vote, and which ones you would like to see held.

Senate Rules
Sen. Leonard M. Blackham, [e-mail], 435-436-8489
Sen. Joseph L. Hull, [e-mail], 801-731-3705
Sen. Paula Julander, [e-mail], 801-363-0868
Sen. Eddie "Ed" P. Mayne, [e-mail], 801-968-7756
Sen. L. Steven Poulton Chair, [e-mail], 801-272-4338
Sen. Terry Spencer, [e-mail], 801-543-4450
Sen. Michael G. Waddoups, [e-mail], 801-967-0225
All can be contacted at 801-538-1035.

Email list (cut and paste) [e-mail], [e-mail],
[e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail],
[e-mail], [e-mail]


House Rules
Rep. Gerry A. Adair, [e-mail], 801-773-2125
Rep. Ron Bigelow, [e-mail], 801-968-4188
Rep. Blake D. Chard, [e-mail], 801-773-7474
Rep. Gary F. Cox, [e-mail], 801-967-9760
Rep. David L. Gladwell Vice Chair, [e-mail],801-782-4130
Rep. Brent H. Goodfellow, [e-mail], 801-968-0626
Rep. Tom Hatch, [e-mail], 435-676-2214
Rep. Neal B. Hendrickson, [e-mail], 801-969-8120
Rep. David L. Hogue, [e-mail], 801-254-1668
Rep. Susan J. Koehn Chair, [e-mail], 801-296-1761
Rep. Raymond W. Short, [e-mail], 801-277-1372
All can be contacted at 801-538-1029.

Email list: [e-mail],  [e-mail],
[e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail],
[e-mail],  [e-mail], [e-mail],
[e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail]


HB 124 - Asset Forfeiture (Wright, Swallow)

The following bill analysis was written by Arnold Gaunt, and edited
for brevity by Sarah.

PLEASE DISTRIBUTE WIDELY!
February 24, 2000

Contents
Property Confiscation Legislation Passes Committee More Police Power
to Steal Your Property Rep. Wright's Record of Betrayal KILL H.B. 124

Property Confiscation Legislation Passes Committee

An extremely dangerous piece of confiscation legislation, H.B. 124
3rd Substitute, was passed Tuesday by the Government Operations
Committee.  This legislation, sponsored by Rep. Bill Wright (and
co-sponsored by Rep. John Swallow), passed the Committee with an
8-2 vote.

http://www.le.state.ut.us/~2000/bills/hbillamd/HB0124S3.htm

More Police Power to Steal Your Property

While promoted as authentic forfeiture reform, the bill in fact
creates shocking forfeiture power previously unknown in Utah. On
lines 103 and 104, it states that the "following are contraband,
are summarily forfeited upon seizure, and no property rights exist
in them".

This power is reinforced and expanded on lines 232 through 235,
which reads:  "All substances listed in Schedules I through V,
and all items listed in Subsections (2) and (3)(a), (b), and (d)
that are possessed, transferred, distributed, or offered for
distribution in violation of this chapter are contraband, are
summarily forfeited, and no property right exists in them."

What summary forfeiture means is that property such as lawful
prescription drugs (such as those at a pharmacy), farming equipment
and materials including tractors, trucks, and fertilizer, insulin
dispensing equipment, aircraft, automobiles, boats, books, and
computers can be confiscated without any due process of law.  Once
your property is seized by the police, there will no opportunity
to recover it in court.  The decision of the police is FINAL!

Another expansion of police power is found on lines 188-192, where
explicit authority is granted for law enforcement to seize your car
without a warrant.  This government theft mechanism has been used
in states such as Louisiana, where out of state vehicles are easily
seized and forfeited given the nearly impossible odds and
overwhelming financial burden of an out-of-state owner proving the
vehicle's innocence.

Forfeiture powers are expanded to allow the federal police (i.e.
BATF, FBI, DEA, SS (Secret Service), etc.) the ability to enforce
Utah's laws (see lines 94-98).  With the Utah forfeiture code at
their disposal, federal police are provided extensive opportunities
to threaten and steal from innocent people with impunity.

More significant than the expansion of forfeiture powers just cited
is the absence of any restriction on the ability of state law
enforcement to transfer seized property to the federal government
to circumvent Utah's laws (such as the recent Utah Supreme Court
decision prohibiting disproportionate or excessive forfeitures).
Without this restriction, any protective present or future provision
of Utah law can subverted by the police turning the seized property
over to the federal government.  The federal law does not require
court action to accomplish the forfeiture, so forfeiture is usually
a mere formality.  Then, up to 80% of the proceeds are returned to
the state's seizing agency.

KILL H.B. 124

Please contact your Representative immediately and urge the defeat
of any version of H.B. 124 (call 801-538-1029 and ask for your
legislator to return your call if not available).

Thanks to all of you for your calls, your presence at committee
hearings, and your support!

Sarah

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 15:53:32 -0700
From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: "Liberals"

Armies of Chaos
by L. Neil Smith

Before anyone proposes more gun control, he or she should know about
a simple, deadly weapon 4 times as powerful as Dirty Harry's legendary
.44 Magnum -- and at least twice as concealable -- that can't be
controlled.

This simple, deadly weapon can be made by anyoneùeven a childùwith
unpowered hand tools in an hour's time using $5 worth of materials,
most of which are available around the house anyway. In traditional
form it's reusable an unlimited number of times, and modern plastics
have rendered its disposable version electronically undetectable.
You can clear a room with such a weapon (more of a hand-held
directional grenade than a gunùsort of a recycleable Claymore mine)
and it's just one of hundreds of similar time-proven designs.

Complete instructions for building this simple, deadly weapon could
be given in half the space I'm using here and not require a single
illustration. Or it could be done as a line-drawing and not require
a word. Either way, the results would Xerox splendidly and reduce,
for effortless distribution, to the size of a 3X5 card.

No, I'm not making this up.

Self-styled liberal academics and politicians generally suffer an
ancient Greek prejudice against the manual trades and often fail to
comprehend what it means, with respect to banning weapons, that we're
a nation of basement lathe-operators. Americans unknowingly tend to
follow Mohammed's precept that, whatever a person's station in life,
he or she should also do something manual, if only to stay grounded
in reality. And if there's any lingering doubt about the ease of
basic weaponscraft, ask the Israelis who, early in their nation's
history, turned out submachineguns little more complicated than what
I'm discussing here, in automotive garages lacking even a lathe.

Civilized restraint precludes my describing the weapon in any greater
detail here. Many gun enthusiasts will know by now exactly what I
refer to, anyway. It's in everyday use in much of the Third World,
especially where governments foolishly believe that they've outlawed
weapons. But that, of course, is impossibleùunless the same governments
want to try repealing the last 1000 years of civil engineering.

Now suppose somebody went ahead and wrote out those easy-to-follow
instructions, made that line drawing, or simply Xeroxed it from any
of 100 sources already in print. Suppose the plans for a reusable,
undetectable weapon 4 times as powerful as a .44 Magnum and twice as
concealable began circulating on every junior high school campus in
America. Or suppose they were simply sent to the media who can never
resist giving viewers step-by-step directions for committing a
crimeùeven as they bemoan the terribleness of it all.

So what, you say. So this: within hours, every self-styled liberal
academic and politician extant would begin to weep, wail, and whimper
(the only thing they're really good at) and before the media-amplified
screaming was overùbut after the legislature had metùwe'd find that
the rights protected by the First Amendment (not created or granted,
mind you, only recognized and guaranteed) are no more secure than
those supposedly protected by the Second. Free expression would be
trampled under without another thought or a moment's hesitation by
the same jackals, vultures, and hyenas currently leading the stampede
to outlaw weaponsùusing exactly the same excuses.

When Xerox machines are outlawed, only outlaws will have Xerox machines.

Human rights are indivisible because there's really only oneùthe right
to remain unmolested by the government or by anybody else. Those who
threaten one right threaten them allùand aren't really "liberals" by
any definition of the word. Suppressing the human right to own and
carry weapons is a step toward suppressing the human right to read,
write, and think. Ask Canadians, for whom censorship is a fact of
daily life, and for whom certain "assault" books (many of them
published by Paladin Press) are on the "hafta smuggle it in" list.

The same thing can and will happen here. Haven't we had ample warning
in the way self-styled liberals, assisted by the corrupt media,
suppress their opposition on these and other issues? Or in their
willingness to present lies as truth while the truth is called a lie?
Or in the fact that elected officials who advocate gun controlùwhich
is a felonyùare still at large instead of behind bars where they
belong? The very existence of a gun control lobby gives the lie to
any claim they make to liberalism. The word "liberal" itself is false
advertising, and the question arises, why do we go on applying it
when the word "fascist" is so much more appropriate?

A popular bumper sticker proclaims that "GUN CONTROL IS PEOPLE
CONTROL". More to the point, and far more sinister, gun control is
MIND control. The relationship only begins with ludicrous attempts by
self-styled liberals to convince a population protected by the Second
Amendment that the Bill of Rights doesn't mean what it says. Weapons
consist of more than machined steel or wood, cast aluminum or plastic.
As John M. Browning or Sam Colt would tell you, their second-most
vital component is an idea. (The first, for better or worse, is the
will to use them.) Without that idea behind it, all the steel, wood,
aluminum, and plastic in the world doesn't make a weapon.

Those who would outlaw weapons must first outlaw the knowledge of
weapons. And those who would outlaw the knowledge of weapons must
outlaw knowledge itself.

Similarly, civilization consists of more than just impressive public
buildings and a battery of arbitrary rules. Its continued existence
depends absolutely on the day-to-day good will of each and every
individual. History (especially recent Soviet history) proves that
this good will depends on how well individual rights are respected.
Alienate the individual, lose his good will, and you lose
civilization itself.

Think I exaggerate? Take another look at Beirut, Los Angeles,
or the World Trade Center.

Every day we learn again how dependent we've been all along on
individual self-restraint. Self-styled liberals label this lesson
"terrorism" because it makes them feel better and helps them to forget
until tomorrow. But it doesn't matter what they call it. In sufficient
numbers, disaffected individuals become armies of chaos, reducing
whole civilizations to archaeological rubble. And, as with most
violence in our culture, it is self-styled liberals who will make
it happen here.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 09:58:06 -0700
From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: FW: LEG-ALERTS 2-29: Good news, bad news!

- -----
Today is the last and most dangerous day for the legislature that
has already been labeled the worst in recent history.

- ----------

Apologies if this is a duplicate. I'm still having computer problems...

Contact info for ALL legislators can be found at: http://www.utguns.freeservers.com
Senate number 801-538-1035 House number 801-538-1029

BAD NEWS!!

BETRAYAL ON SB 72!
SB 72 has been substituted yet again and is now on its 4th substitute,
sponsored by Blake Chard. The "new" bill mandates a LIFETIME REVOCATION
OF RIGHTS for anyone who has EVER been committed to a mental institution
- - even if the person was wrongfully committed, even if the person has
recovered fully. This is nothing but a back-door approach to revoking
your gun rights FOREVER without having to bother with inconvenient and
expensive "technicalities" like due process and jury trials.

SB 72 still contains all the other offensive provisions including an
unconstitutional revocation of rights for juveniles, LIFETIME revocation
of rights for possession of a single pain pill while in possession of a
firearm (i.e. more revocation of rights for misdemeanors!), and LIFETIME
revocation of rights for those dishonorably discharged from the military
for POLITICAL reasons.

Enough is enough! Insist that YOUR representative KILL SB 72 NOW!


HB 372 STILL ALIVE...

Many of you have written saying that legislators are telling you that
SB 372 has been "fixed". THIS IS NOT TRUE! While Sen. Waddoups's
substitute takes out the horrible language proposed by Rep. Garn,
it does NOTHING to fix the many problems in the existing code. If
legislators want to play with the concealed carry law, they need to
make it BETTER!

Rep. Garn has asked me to make it clear that the problem language is
NOT anything he personally wrote. It's bad language that's ALREADY in
the Code. However, Rep. Garn chose NOT TO amend this language, while
he was amending existing code to make things worse for gun owners.

Problems with the bill include:

Mandates revocation or denial of a concealed carry permit for MISDEMEANORS and INFRACTIONS!

Allows revocation or denial of a concealed carry permit based on
completely unproven allegations that a person is or has been a "danger".
If an irate neighbor says you're dangerous, you can lose your permit!

Allows BCI to deny a permit based on expunged records!

Allows BCI to deny a permit based on juvenile records!

Requires you to provide a five year employment history. (Wouldn't
you love to have BCI call your employer and tell him you've applied
for a carry permit - especially if you work for an anti-gun employer
like the University of Utah or a public school?!)

Requires YOU to prove that you have a "good character",
rather than requiring BCI to prove you don't.

Revocation of permits is based on preponderance of the evidence,
which again means YOU have to PROVE YOUR INNOCENCE!

There is STILL no liability protection for instructors.

Even worse, the forces of evil are rallying to tack on every
conceivable gun control provision! It is not likely that we will
be able to defeat all of them!

This means we will LOSE MORE RIGHTS and will not gain anything!
Does that sound like a "compromise" to you? (Yes, Rep. Garn has
promised to kill the bill if it's amended, but this is still a
risky way to pass legislation.)

There's only ONE DAY LEFT! The ONLY SOLUTION is to KILL HB 372!
Don't let your legislators sweet talk you. Let them know the bill
must DIE!! Call your Senator and Representative NOW!! Both UTGuns
and Gun Owners of America OPPOSE this bill. Don't let ANYONE tell
you that "All gun groups have approved this bill!"

HB 161 - Juvenile Brady (Tyler) passed it final vote in the Senate
today and will soon be on its way to Gov. Leavitt. Please ask Gov.
Leavitt to VETO this bill! 538-1000


GOOD NEWS! Forfeiture lobby loses, property rights win!

Thanks to YOUR EFFORTS, HB 173, Computer Forfeiture (Buckner) was DEFEATED
in the Senate earlier today. This is a HUGE achievement as SIX Senators
agreed to change their votes overnight. Thanks to ALL of you!

Reps. Swallow and Wright have also agreed to kill HB 124, Asset
Forfeiture revisions, so that we can work together to create a bill
that will have unqualified support. However, the bill is still on
the calendar. Please THANK Reps. Wright and Swallow, and encourage
them to formally remove the bill from consideration. 538-1029


MORE GOOD NEWS!
HB 199, Limitation on Liability for Gun Manufacturers (Throckmorton)
passed its final vote today! Congratulations and a big THANK YOU to
Rep. Matt Throckmorton for having the courage to run a PRO-GUN bill!
HB 199 will soon be on its way to Gov. Leavitt, so please make sure
he knows that you expect him to SIGN this bill! 801-538-1000


BILLS IN RULES THAT NEED TO STAY THERE!
Remember that ANY bill can be released and have a vote right up
until midnight tomorrow! We need to stay ALERT!

Please write to the SENATE RULES COMMITTEE and ask them to:
HOLD HB 176S3 - Weapons Restrictions for Mentally Ill (G. Cox)
HOLD HB 91 - Tax Credits for Safes (Bennion)
RELEASE HB 296 - Prevention of Retaliatory Lawsuits (Lockhart)

Please write to the HOUSE RULES COMMITTEE and ask them to:
HOLD SB 32 - Marksmanship Tests for Concealed Carry (R. Allen)
HOLD SB 37 - School Surveys (Montgomery)
HOLD SB 200 - Civil Commitments (Montgomery)
and especially... HOLD SB 72 4th Sub. - Restricted Persons (Spencer)

Lists are available at: http://www.utguns.freeservers.com/legalerts022400.html

ONLY ONE MORE DAY! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!

Sarah

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 12:59:16 -0500
From: Chad Leigh <[e-mail]>
Subject: cnn poll

cnn has a poll about the NRAs influence in congress.  Go vote no!

http://www.cnn.com





- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 07:10:35 -0700
From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: FW: Another L. Neil Smith essay

Getting Back at TV Propagandists
by L. Neil Smith

As a novelist, I have a higher soapbox to stand on than most when
it comes to talking back to the enemies of liberty. Yet it makes
me just as mad when ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, CNN, and NPR not only lie
consistently and blatantly about the individual right to own and
carry weapons, but insert their lies into "news" and programs
billed as entertainment.

It's been going on for decades. You know when a politician's lying
- -- his mouth moves -- but broadcasters lie with a twitch of an
eyebrow or the slant of a shoulder. They load questions for the
"man in the street" and get the public to lie for them. They even
lie by making sure the badguy in a series episode has rifles and
game trophies on his wall.

The most infuriating part is that you can't talk back. Broadcasters
take advantage of the fact that any amateur, offered a chance to
be on TV, is easily made to look foolish. Ask those who've tried:
I give speeches where people laugh in all the right places and
grown men have wept. The one occasion I tried replying to a TV
editorial, I looked like Archie Bunker. Most anti-gun propaganda
can't be dealt with in this manner anyway, because the other side's
too dishonest to present it as a straightforward editorial.

Since the Bill of Rights protects a broadcaster's freedom under
the First Amendment to attack our freedom under the Second, the
next thought that occurs to the irate viewer is to get back at
propagandists through their wallets, boycotting programs or their
sponsors. I've never been impressed with the tactic. True, you
deprive the enemy of income; you also deprive yourself of whatever
he produces, maybe something you really need. Sometimes it's worth
a sacrifice, sometimes it isn't, and individual opinions always
differ.

The main problem is that for a boycott to be effective, you must
persuade thousands, even millions of others to go along -- a lot
of work and usually not very successful. No matter what this
country's self-appointed political and religious leaders claim,
self-sacrifice has never been what America is all about and it
doesn't work as any kind of incentive. Robert Heinlein put it
best when he said it's pointless to appeal to someone's "better
nature". He may not have one. Better to appeal to his self-interest.

Which is where my thoughts had led me many times (and dumped me
out at what seemed the end of the line) when one day I asked
myself the right question: if boycotts don't work, what's the
opposite of a boycott? Obviously it isn't doing more business
with the enemy. How about doing more business with whatever
the enemy opposes?

Call it a negative boycott.

Since then, when I find myself subjected to anti-gun drivel
disguised as "news" or "entertainment", I drop a quarter (or a
dime, a nickel or a penny) into a coffee can I keep beside the
chair where I watch TV. Given the rate at which propaganda fills
the air, it's no time at all before the can fills up. When enough
accumulates, I don't give it to the NRA or any other organization
whose policies I neither control nor necessarily approve. I spend
it the best way I know, in the free marketplace of ideas -- and
hardware -- acquiring another gun I wouldn't otherwise have bought.

Think about it: another gun you wouldn't otherwise have bought.

Many benefits are generated this way with minimal effort and
no pain. Appeal to the self-interest of enough gun owners, and
hundreds of thousands -- maybe even millions -- of unforeseen gun
purchases will occur. This will strengthen the firearms industry
relative to the rest of the economy and even put some spine back
into outfits who've taken the cowardly, historically discredited
route of appeasing an oppressor. It didn't work with Hitler; why
does Bill Ruger think it'll work with Hitler's spiritual kin,
Howard Metzenbaum?

Spotting anti-gun propaganda could make watching network TV
interesting again -- a minor miracle in itself -- and might even
develop into an educational game for the whole family. Kids would
learn what the public schools never teach and desperately doesn't
want them to know: ways to identify logical fallacies, fuzzy or
missing verbs, and improperly weighted qualifiers in otherwise
authoritative-sounding arguments about homelessness, urban street
gangs, acid rain, ozone depletion, global warming, and the war on
drugs.

The primary effect will be felt by our opponents as their own
soapboxes slowly dissolve under their feet. Even now, each time
the greatest sporting-goods sales team in America -- Handgun
Control Inc. -- open their mouths about gun control or push for
new legislation, thousands of individuals go out and buy guns of
all descriptions "before it's too late". Some estimate that the
last flurry of semiauto hysteria sold a quarter of a million
such weapons in Colorado alone.

Until now, anti-gunners have encouraged the media to keep the
public ignorant of this interesting, inconvenient effect. But
as word of millions of coffee cans filling up with coins -- and
suddenly being emptied -- gets around, an inexorable certainty that
anti-gun propaganda actually causes more guns to be bought will put
a damper on broadcasters' enthusiasm to saturate the air with lies.

The best part (and most frustrating from the other side's point of
view) is that nobody is in a position to think, speak, or act for
you. It's your TV, your chair, your coffee can. In your home you're
the only judge of what constitutes anti-gun propaganda. You decide
how much to drop in the can. You're the ultimate beneficiary.

So let your local TV stations -- and the networks -- know what you
are doing. And do it. Then trust in liberal guilt to do the rest.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 10:43:49 -0700
From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Clinton seeks to end gun impasse

What a ghoul!
"Maybe this tragic death will help" - President Bill Clinton

http://www.freep.com/news/kayla/ding3_20000303.htm

Clinton seeks to end gun impasse

But Dingell urges enforcement of existing laws

March 3, 2000

BY MELANIE EVERSLEY
FREE PRESS WASHINGTON STAFF

WASHINGTON -- Seeking momentum on gun
control from the Mt. Morris Township
school shooting, President Bill
Clinton has summoned congressional
leaders to the White House in hopes
of breaking an impasse on mandatory
gun safety locks and gun-show
background checks.

"Maybe this tragic death will help,"
the president said Thursday,
referring to Tuesday's fatal shooting
of 6-year-old Kayla Rolland by a
classmate using a stolen .32-caliber
semiautomatic gun.

But Rep. John Dingell of Dearborn,
one of the staunchest Democratic
defenders of gun rights, said
Thursday too little is known about
the shooting to form conclusions
about what America should do to curb
gun violence.

"We don't know exactly what happened
here," Dingell said. "At first,
before you rush out to cure a
disease, you have to diagnose it,
and the ancient abjuration of the
Hippocratic oath comes into play,
which is, 'Do no harm.'"

Dingell said the United States should
better enforce its existing laws. In
the meantime, he said, he will continue
to support the rights of gun owners.

Still, there was talk on Capitol Hill
of compromise between Republicans and
Democrats after months of inaction.

"We'll take whatever we can agree on
- -- gun shows, clips, safety locks,"
said Senate Minority Leader Tom
Daschle, D-S.D. "We're currently
doing nothing."

Rep. Henry Hyde, R-Ill., chairman of
the House Judiciary Committee, said:
"We have a reasonable gun bill. If
the Democrats want a bill, we can do
it. If they want the issue, we'll
have the issue." He said he was open
to compromise. "I think the country
wants legislation."

Clinton is inviting congressional
leaders to the White House on Tuesday
to lobby for a juvenile-justice bill
that includes gun-control measures.
Congress deadlocked over the issue
last session.

During an appearance on the "Today"
show Thursday morning, Clinton said
better research on new gun
technologies, more focus on parental
responsibility and stricter
gun-licensing measures might help
curb gun violence.

House and Senate members who debated
the juvenile-justice bill last
session, including U.S. Rep. John
Conyers, D-Mich., will be among those
invited, but it wasn't decided as of
Thursday afternoon whether Dingell
would be among the guests, said White
House spokeswoman Sarah Gegenheimer.

Dingell said he would attend if
invited. But he declined to predict
what the meeting might accomplish.

Similar caution was expressed
Thursday by advocates on both sides
of the gun debate, who have watched
the issue simmer since the shooting
at Columbine High School in
Littleton, Colo., last spring.

Although it is chiefly the Republican
leadership in Congress that has
fought against sweeping gun-control
measures in a juvenile-justice bill,
they have found an ally in Dingell,
said Marie Carbone, director of
congressional relations for Handgun
Control, a pro-gun-control group in
Washington.

"His stance gave the Republican
leadership the ability to say there
are people on both sides of the aisle
that are opposed to this," she said
Thursday. "Everyone knows where Mr.
Dingell stands on this, and he's in
the minority of his party."

The National Rifle Association, the
premiere gun-rights organization
based in Fairfax, Va., pointed out
that the president opposed the
package that went before Congress
last summer.

"Legislation could have passed last
summer -- he was against it then,"
Trish Hylton, NRA spokeswoman, said
Thursday. "Now he's saying the
solution is trigger locks, and he
never mentioned parenting or the
atrocious conditions under which this
child was living," Hylton added of
the alleged 6-year-old shooter.

Democrats killed the gun-control
portion of the juvenile-justice bill
in June after the House passed a
provision, written by Dingell and
backed by Republicans, that Democrats
said weakened a measure requiring
background checks on handgun buyers.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 12:20:22 -0800
From: Joe Waldron <[e-mail]>
Subject: CITIBANK FOLDS

The following was received by the Second Amendment Foundation on
3 March 2000:

QUOTE

Public Information

           CITIBANK MEDIA STATEMENT

      RE:  SMALL FIREARMS BUSINESS POLICY

March 2, 2000--In researching our recent interaction with the
Nevada Pistol Academy, certain incvonsistencies were identified
in our policies within the consumer bank.  These have been
corrected.  Moving forward, our practice of assessing a
prospective small business account on the basis of an evaluation
of the individual business will apply uniformly across the
consumer bank.  Small businesses engaged in the manufacture or
sale of small firearms will be evaluated in the same manner as
any other small business, using the same standards such as
creditworthiness and number of years in business.

UNQUOTE

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 13:48:49 -0700
From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: FW: Ventilation Help Needed

Jim Dexter and the USSC ask:

- -----
Subject: LPU: FW: Ventilation Help Needed
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 13:27:33 -0700
From: "Jim Dexter" <[e-mail]>
To: "LPUtah Forum" <[e-mail]>

If you know of anyone who qualifies, please help this worthy cause . . .

- ----------

USSC is sending this notice on behalf of the Utah Precision Marksmanship
Society (UPMS), one of our affiliated organizations.   They are looking for
people with expertise in ventilation systems. Engineers, architects, sheet
metal contractors, heating/air conditioning contractors or anyone else who
can help with the design phase of work needed to meet recommended air flow
standards. (Standards have been established by NRA range development
engineers, and need to be applied to this facility). We need to get this
done on a very urgent basis.

The University of Utah will shut down the NRTOC range facility if the
ventilation flow is not increased. This is one of the few indoor smallbore
rifle and pistol facilities left on the east side of Salt Lake City. It is
used by several clubs as well as the NROTC collegiate pistol team. If
closed, these programs will probably stop due to lack of facilities.

Closing down range facilities is a sneaky method used by anti-gun people to
harass legitimate shooting sports. Thirty years ago nearly every high school
and college in the state had their own indoor ranges and active marksmanship
athletic programs. Now there are only two or three left.

If you can help, or know someone else willing to help, please contact Matt
DeLong [phone], or e-mail- [e-mail] If you cannot
reach him, e-mail back to USSC.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 15:39:02 -0700
From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: FW: Gun-rights organizations at odds

- -----
Subject: Gun-rights organizations at odds
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 12:12:44 EST
From: [e-mail]

A member of GOPConservatives has written an article for World News
Daily regarding the NRA, GOA, and Sen. Hatch.  Partial story below.
Entire story at URL.
[e-mail] (Rich Kuchinsky)

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_bresnahan/20000302_xex_gunrights_br.shtml

Gun-rights organizations at odds
Are Second Amendment groups
shooting at each other?

By David M. Bresnahan
⌐ 2000 WorldNetDaily.com

In what could be called a classic case of "idealists versus realists," two of
the nation's leading gun-rights organizations are at odds with each other
over how best to safeguard Americans' constitutional right to keep and bear
arms.

Symptomatic of the division is the stunning division between the National
Rifle Association and Gun Owners of America over U.S. Sen. Orrin Hatch,
R.-Utah. The NRA regards Hatch as one of the true congressional heroes for
his past efforts on behalf of Second Amendment issues, while rival GOA
regards Hatch as a "compromiser" -- and is even talking about trying to
unseat him in his upcoming re-election bid.

Hatch is the powerful chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, where many
gun bills must first receive a hearing. GOA Executive Director Larry Pratt
told WorldNetDaily that Hatch has voted in favor of many gun control laws
while claiming to be a supporter of gun rights. In fact, Pratt recently
sent....

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 15:44:43 -0700
From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: FW: JPFO Blasts AJC for 'Ghetto Jew Mentality' in School Shooting

- -----
Subject: JPFO Blasts AJC for 'Ghetto Jew Mentality' in School Shooting
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 12:22:56 -0600
From: "JPFO" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>

JPFO Blasts AJC for 'Ghetto Jew Mentality' in School Shooting
U.S. Newswire
3 Mar 10:55

Jewish Group Blasts AJC for 'Ghetto Jew Mentality' in Grade School Killing
To: National Desk
Contact: Aaron Zelman of Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership Inc.,
800-869-1884; e-mail: [e-mail]; Website: http://www.jpfo.org

HARTFORD, Wis., March 3 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Jews for the
Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO) strongly denounced the
March 1 statement issued by the American Jewish Congress (AJC)
which called for more federal victim disarmament laws. The AJC's
statement, responding to the Feb. 29 Michigan grade school killing,
demanded "tough gun control legislation" as the remedy. Speaking
for JPFO, Aaron Zelman called the AJC's demand an example of
"ghetto Jew mentality."

"Turning to a secular central government to solve a parenting
problem shows how morally bankrupt the AJC position is," said Zelman,
JPFO's executive director. "Judaism is about timeless moral values
and strong family structures -- not about calling in the federal
government every time somebody commits a crime."

"By agitating for more victim disarmament laws, the AJC works
against Jewish values. Jews, like everyone else, have a duty to
protect and defend themselves and their families against violence,"
Zelman noted. "Turning to a non-Jewish secular government to save
everyone from crime violates Jewish principles -- it's making the
state your god."

Zelman challenged the AJC to affirm traditional values and morals.
"I don't see the AJC actively working to preserve the Jewish
principles of fundamental respect for human life, punishment of
wrongdoers, and clear moral training of children. The AJC wants the
federal government to prevent honest citizens from having the tools
for self-protection, yet the AJC does nothing to knit the social
fabric around God's laws."

Anticipating a flurry of calls for victim disarmament laws, Zelman
criticized the lobbyists who "advance the political agenda called
'gun control' on the bodies of dead children." He also noted that the
Mount Morris grade school tragedy would get national media attention,
while the thousands of cases of children being protected by armed
defenders go unreported. "According to Florida State University
Professor Gary Kleck's research, firearms are used to prevent crime
nearly 2 million times per year. Firearms misuse is comparatively
rare but grabs the headlines," Zelman said.

With the AJC's advocating more federal victim disarmament, Zelman
observed that "the AJC ignores both Jewish morality and the importance
of armed self-defense. Historically, that combination has been lethal
for Jews. The AJC certainly demolishes the image that Jews are smart."

- -0-
/U.S. Newswire 202-347-2770/
03/03 10:55

Copyright 2000, U.S. Newswire

- -

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