home *** CD-ROM | disk | FTP | other *** search
- From: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com (utah-firearms-digest)
- To: utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com
- Subject: utah-firearms-digest V2 #44
- Reply-To: utah-firearms-digest
- Sender: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com
- Errors-To: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com
- Precedence: bulk
-
-
- utah-firearms-digest Saturday, April 11 1998 Volume 02 : Number 044
-
-
-
-
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
- Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 12:33:39 -0600
- From: "S. Thompson" <righter@therighter.com>
- Subject: Re: Sarah Brady's Secret Attack Plan
-
- Hi all!
-
- Thanks to Scott for posting this. If anyone has an actual verifiable copy
- of this fax, would you please let me know as I'd like to get a copy. Thanks!
-
- Sarah
-
-
- At 10:22 PM 4/5/98 -0700, you wrote:
- >
- >On Ed Wolfe's website, Nation In Distress:
- >http://www.involved.com/ewolfe/distress/
- >
- >06/08/14 StTN 12:35 FAX Sarah Brady
- >
- >Dear Handgun Control Member,
- >
- >I have marked this letter to you "confidential" because I am requesting
- >that you avoid discussing the contents publicly for the next several weeks.
- >
- >This is because we are about to initiate action that, if successful,
- >will weaken the stranglehold that the gun industry, the NRA, and other
- >gun fanatics have over local and national gun laws.
- >
- >And I am urgently requesting you to make an extraordinary gift to help
- >strengthen our cause.
- >
- >Please let me quickly explain our plans; and then you will understand
- >why both your generosity and secrecy are required.
- >
- >In brief, we believe there is a strong parallel between the gun industry
- >and the tobacco companies! As you know, citizens at the local and state
- >level rose up in anger and demanded clean air in restaurants and offices
- >when Congress failed to take action.
- >
- >Here at Handgun Control Inc., it is our regrettable conclusion that this
- >current Congress is not going to take the initiative on gun safety for
- >America. Legislation is bogged down. The NRA and other gun industry lobbying
- >groups have multi-million dollar war chests set aside for this election year.
- >
- >Consequently, it will be extremely difficult to pass any significant
- >legislation this year.
- >
- >And so, even though we will not let up on our efforts in congress,
- >our focus is going to make a dramatic shift.
- >
- >And we want to keep this shift as quiet as possible while we develop our
- plan.
- >
- >In a few weeks, I will be announcing to the nation:
- >
- >The Citizens Campaign Against Community Gun Trafficking
- >
- >Even the title of this campaign will cause shockwaves to run through
- >the gun industry and the NRA at local and national levels.
- >
- >We will be taking a page from the anti-smoking victories, where local
- >ordinances banned smoking in public facilities and eventually forced
- >state and national legislation to protest Americans' right to a
- >smoke-free environment.
- >
- >And we'll remember the victories in the anti-drunk-driving movement, as well.
- >
- >M.A.D.D. was formed by a small group of mothers whose children had been
- >killed by drunk drivers; they gathered supporters and strength at the
- >grassroots level around the country, and before long these mothers
- >started to be taken seriously everywhere, even on capitol Hill. Now,
- >most states have tougher penalties for drunk drivers and the liquor
- >industry is providing anti-drunk-driving messages in their advertising.
- >
- >In much the same way, we're going to attack the gun industry and the gun
- >pushers at the most basic point; where money is exchanged for guns.
- >
- >The Attack point: Local Gun Shows!
- >
- >Local gun shows make it extremely easy to purchase a gun for private or
- >criminal use. And that's because most of the guns at the shows are sold
- >by private individuals, not by dealers; and, therefore, in most states
- >they are not covered by laws requiring background checks or paperwork!
- >
- >So you can walk into a gun show, strike up a conversation with the guy
- >hawking the M-l carbine, admire its light kick, repetitive fire, and
- >ability to accept large magazine clips.
- >
- >Then you talk to that strange man parading around in his military
- >fatigues, and later you meet him on the street, give him the necessary
- >cash and the firearm is yours.
- >
- >All legal in most states, as long as that fellow is not a licensed gun
- dealer!
- >
- >Loophole: The Second-Hand Market
- >
- >Right now, federal laws focus primarily on purchases of handguns from
- >licensed dealers. And the Brady Handgun violence and prevention Act has
- >stopped many criminals from buying handguns from licensed dealers.
- >
- >But most states have no laws preventing one individual from selling a
- >weapon to another, as long as the seller is not a licensed gun dealer.
- >
- >"The individual purchasing the gun does not have to show identification,
- >does not have to submit to background checks. And the person selling
- >the gun does not need to keep a written record of the transaction or the
- >buyer's address and social Security number. Also, quite obviously,
- >there is no waiting period. All in all, this is the most outrageous
- >loophole in our federal gun laws.
- >
- >And gun shows are where criminals do their shopping; where the
- >second-hand gun market really thrives.
- >
- >And so, this is why one of our first goals in The Citizens Campaign Against
- >Community Gun Trafficking is going to be to close down the gun shows!
- >
- >These gun shows are most often held on public property: civic centers,
- >school gymnasiums, fairgrounds, city and county convention centers.
- >
- >And these giant weapons bazaars have developed considerable notoriety,
- >because of such high-profile cases as Oklahoma City bomber Timothy
- >Mcveigh, who was reported to have bought or sold weapons at gun shows.
- >
- >A recent issue of "Shotgun News", the "bible" of the gun pushers,
- >advertised over 500 gun shows for the last three months of 1997 alone.
- >And this does not include many of the smaller shows and swap meets.
- >
- >I believe that now you can see why our Citizens campaign Against
- >Community Gun Trafficking is going to result in tremendous controversy.
- >
- >And I wish that we could keep it secret; 100% secret; until we are
- >ready to launch the campaign.
- >
- >But, unlike the NRA and the right-wing, gun toting fanatics, we do not
- >have a multi-million dollar war chest. We depend upon grassroots support
- >from friends like you. And so I wanted to take the calculated risk and
- >share this plan with you, and hope that you will step forward and send
- >a significant gift to express your belief that citizens, with or without
- >Congress, can get things done!
- >
- >In a few weeks, if you're interested, I will forward to you a 'Citizens
- >Action Kit," detailing exactly what can be done in your local community.
- >
- >We intend to bring pressure upon mayors, city councils, school boards,
- >churches, and all property owners to ban the use of any facility for gun
- shows.
- >
- >Already, we are working with Dade county, Florida, mounting an all-out
- >assault on gun shows in that area. I will be reporting to you about
- >that innovative and successful initiative before long. But, as of
- >now, we are not quite ready to go public with the results.
- >
- >But I must quickly bring this letter to a close, after I warn you that
- >this is going to be a long, hard-fought campaign.
- >
- >After all, it took many, many years before the tobacco industry felt the
- >heat of local citizens demanding a smoke-tree environment.
- >
- >So we must be patient, firm, determined and uncompromising.
- >
- >Our enemies will incorrectly and misleadingly scream about freedom of
- >speech and freedom of assembly. But in turn, we will quietly remind
- >them that America is involved in a gun war that is claiming 35,000
- >lives each year including 9,OOO murdered by handguns.
- >
- >And we'll remind them that Americans must responsibly report transactions
- >involving cars, liquor and other products. Why should gun sales be exempt?
- >
- >Every day 14 children, 19 years old and under, are killed by handguns. Much
- >of this mayhem is made possible by the use of public property for gun shows.
- >
- >These statistics are tragic proof that a state of war exists.
- >
- >And, as you know, in my case, the statistic became personal heartbreak
- >when my husband Jim was grievously wounded by a bullet intended for
- >President Reagan.
- >
- >You and I must make America a safer place to live. Let's do it!
- >
- >P.S. I urge you to turn to the enclosed reply slip and write out a check
- >in one of the amounts I've indicated. Or perhaps you can give more.
- >But please do the best you can.
- >
- >I look forward to receiving your support, and I will trust in your silence
- >as we prepare our citizens Campaign Against Community Gun Trafficking.
- >
- >
- >
- >-
- >
- >
-
- - -
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 12:49:08 -0600
- From: "S. Thompson" <righter@therighter.com>
- Subject: Another poll
-
- >A poll on MSNBC
- >
- >Asking about support for the Permanent ban on military assault style
- >firearms. Please VOTE
- >
- >http://www.msnbc.com/news/156278.asp
-
-
- (I voted and it wouldn't show me the results.)
-
- Sarah
-
- - -
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 18:24:57 -0600
- From: "S. Thompson" <righter@therighter.com>
- Subject: Re: Sarah Brady's Secret Attack Plan
-
- I did a bit of checking into the alleged HCI Fax posted here previously. I
- wrote to Ed Wolfe who posted it on his site, and he referred me to Mike
- Pietrantoni who sent me the following note.
-
- >Hi Dr Thompson,
- > I am the one who originally put this up on the net the other day. It was
- >faxed to me from John Statdmiller of the shortwave show "The Intelligence
- >Report" with him and Mark Koernke. He personally called HCI and verified its
- >authenticity.
- > If you would like you can reach him directly at 616 XXXX voice, or 616
- >XXXX fax. (Phone numbers deleted by me - ST)
- > If I can be of any further assistence please let me know.
- > All the best. Mike Pietrantoni
- >
-
- I also checked with Craig Fields at GOA. His response follows.
-
- GOA has received numerous questions regarding the validity
- of a supposed communication from Sarah Brady to the
- members of HCI, wherein it is mentioned that their next
- target will be gun shows.
-
- We don't doubt for a second that HCI would love to target
- gun shows, but we are of the opinion that the "letter" is
- in all likelihood a hoax.
-
- There are quite a few reasons for us to conclude that,
- although someone went to a considerable amount of trouble
- to create something that looks genuine.
-
- Let's just say that we are well aware of what HCI sends to
- its members, and we haven't seen this one. The salutation
- is different from what HCI uses nearly 100% of the time.
- There are typos. The grammatical styling is both different
- and of poorer quality than what HCI produces.
-
- The hard copies we have seen lack a small but always
- included graphical separator.
-
- If this is indeed a hoax-- it is remotely possible that it
- is genuine but that is quite a stretch-- the perpetrator
- has done a disservice to our cause. The time you have spent
- fretting over it could have been used to contact a
- legislator or write a letter to the editor. The time we had
- to spend checking this out could also have been spent in a
- more productive manner. And of course, Internet hoaxes do
- not die out easily.
-
- Maybe some good can come out of this. If you aren't part of
- the GOA E-Mail Alert Network, see below.
-
- In liberty,
-
- Craig.
-
- - --Craig Fields
- Director of Electronic Communications, GOA
-
- Looks to me like it's probably a hoax, but judge for yourself.
-
- Sarah
-
-
-
-
- Sarah Thompson, M.D.
- http://www.therighter.com
-
- April 19, 1775 - The Battles of Lexington and Concord
- April 19, 1783 - Congress proclaims victory in the American War of
- Independence
- April 19, 1933 - The US abandons the gold standard
- April 19, 1943 - The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising
- April 19, 1993 - The Branch Davidian Massacre at Waco
- April 19, 1995 - The Oklahoma City bombing
-
- What are YOU willing to do for freedom?
-
- - -
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: Tue, 07 Apr 98 20:06:00 -0700
- From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON)
- Subject: A GUN IS ONLY A TOOL
-
- Heads Up - A Weekly View from the Foothills of Appalachia
-
- April 5, 1998 #79
-
- by: Doug Fiedor fiedor19@eos.net
-
- - ------------------------------------------------------
- Previous Editions at: http://mmc.cns.net/headsup.html
- - ------------------------------------------------------
-
- A GUN IS ONLY A TOOL
-
- I am getting very tired of the socialist-liberal viewpoint in this country,
- and I am about to publicly tell a number of them (journalists, this time)
- to come up with some hard evidence to back up what they are saying or shut
- the hell up!
-
- This week, they're starting on the danger of citizen-owned guns again.
- These mush-mouthed hand-ringing buttinskys keep telling America that guns
- are bad. Guns are making our country a very dangerous land, they say.
- Guns kill people, they repeat. It's like the frontier days out there all
- over again, one babble-breath said. Listening to these fugitives from fact,
- one would think that the nefarious pistol in the drawer next to me is
- actually lying in wait for me to open the drawer so it can jump out and
- shoot me.
-
- A few years back I published a well circulated paper detailing the difference
- in violent crime between the United States and four European countries where
- guns are closely regulated. No matter that I used "official" FBI statistics,
- I was immediately chastised for being politically incorrect.
-
- Regardless, here's the basic (offending) data from the 1992 FBI Uniform
- Crime Report. The numbers are related in incidents per 100,000 population:
-
- Country ---- Murder ---- Robbery
- - --------------------------------
- U.S.A. ------ 9.3 ------- 263.0
- England ----- 7.4 -------- 62.6
- France ------ 4.6 -------- 90.4
- Germany ----- 4.2 -------- 47.4
- Italy ------- 6.0 -------- 68.6
-
- If these numbers are taken on their face value, the United States is truly
- more dangerous than these four European countries. However, a great deal of
- the crime in the United States is committed by street gang punks and other
- riffraff in the inner-city. The FBI did not correct for that. However, we
- still can get some idea of the source of the problem by using their figures
- for the race of the perpetrators.
-
- Color Murder Robbery
- - --------------------
- White 5.1 126
- Black 43.1 1,343
-
- All I've got to say about these numbers is that my Black friends and
- neighbors in Detroit intuitively knew them to be true. It was the liberal
- press, and of course the politicians, who didn't want to hear this stuff.
-
- The FBI defines justifiable homicide as being "limited to the killing of
- a felon by a law enforcement officer in the line of duty, or the killing
- by a private citizen of a felon during the commission of a felony." The
- FBI reports that, in 1995, there were a total of 383 justifiable homicides
- by police officers and another 286 by civilians. Most, of course, were
- justifiable shootings by the use of a handgun.
-
- The FBI identified 7,071 (31.5%) White and 8,285 (36.9%) Black murders
- in 1995. Another 6,660 (29.7%) were of unknown race.
-
- As politically incorrect as this information may be, these are the facts
- as per the FBI, an organization currently under the control of liberals.
- These data are posted on their web page for anyone to see. Yet, journalists
- and politicians never bother to look.
-
- The FBI report positively identifies 1,157 murders by juvenile gangs alone
- - -- and that is just the ones they know about. They identify another 1,010
- murders as drug related. And so on, and so on.
-
- The cold hard fact is that, in the States where people own and use guns
- the most, there are fewest murders. And it is a natural result, not a
- statistical anomaly, that as States begin issuing concealed carry weapons
- permits violent crime immediately decreases significantly. These are easily
- verifiable facts, available to anyone with a computer. Yet, the political
- nincompoops in Washington and their clue-less journalist sycophants persist
- in fabricating and disseminating inaccurate information to the American
- people. Well folks, it's time we have at them -- politically speaking,
- of course.
-
- I, for one, do not relish carrying around an extra two pounds of tooled
- steel when I go out. However, even in the beautiful foothills of Appalachia,
- that can sometimes be a wise thing to do. Therefore, it must always remain
- my option.
-
- Towards that end, we (many of us) would like to thank the Kentucky General
- Assembly, which recently passed HB-318 to help secure the right of all
- Americans to protect themselves. That bill will allow any licensed person,
- from any State which issues concealed carry permits, to carry a concealed
- weapon in Kentucky. It also orders the Kentucky State Police to secure
- reciprocity agreements with all States that currently issue CCW's so that
- Kentucky permit holders may carry in their respective States.
-
- Read it and weep liberals. Sometimes, things work as they should.
-
-
- - -
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 11:30:35 -0600
- From: chardy@ES.COM (Charles Hardy)
- Subject: [Vin_Suprynowicz@lvrj.com: April 15 column - wish list]
-
- Not directly related to Utah gun issues, but a good read that touches
- on the topic of gun ownership and use.
-
- - ----BEGIN FORWARDED MESSGE----
-
- FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA
- FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED APRIL 15, 1998
- THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz
- Wish list
-
- Occasional correspondent Bob wrote to ask me: "If you could repeal 10
- federal laws, dismantle 10 federal agencies, or reverse 10 supreme court
- decisions, which laws, agencies or decisions would you choose? I guess that
- what I'm asking for is the libertarian 'hit list'."
-
- I warned Bob from the outset "There are a lot of pitfalls here, and room
- for (interesting, but perhaps counterproductive) debate."
-
- Experience proves that such exercises in fantasy can lead to
- not-very-useful squabbling about tactics and priorities, among folks who in
- fact haven't a ghost of a chance of closing (start ital)any(end ital)
- government ant farms, as things stand today.
-
- This only distracts our focus from the real enemy, the Cult of the
- Omnipotent State.
-
- But, that said, I attempted to answer Bob in good faith:
-
- # # #
-
- For starters, I strongly disagree with the "pragmatic Republican"
- concept, that you start by "closing" the DOC, the DOE, and the other DOE,
- since they're the most useless and thus the "easiest to trim."
-
- The implication is that these operations would be like Guadalcanal and
- North Africa, good live-fire warm-ups from which we would soon mobilize the
- forces of freedom to capture Manila and Rome.
-
- In fact, the current nature of our politics is that -- once the federal
- Department of Education is finally re-absorbed into some other federal
- bureaucracy (with no net loss of federal employment) and cheerfully
- declared "closed" -- the boys will all pat each other on the back and
- retire to the bar, with no incentive to do any more "government-trimming"
- for at least another election cycle.
-
- Sort of like starting the Second World War with the exploratory raids at
- Dieppe and Makin Island, and then declaring victory and sending everyone
- home.
-
- Instead, in this fantasy, we might do better to start by reversing the
- 1895 Supreme Court decision in Sparf and Hansen vs. United States, which
- acknowledged juries had the right and POWER to "judge the law as well as
- the fact," but ruled judges have no obligation to TELL jurors that ... the
- pragmatic effect being that judges now frequently LIE OUTRIGHT, telling
- juries "You will judge only the facts, deciding whether the law has been
- broken, as I explain it to you. You are not permitted to worry about
- whether the law is right or wrong, or whether the likely punishment is
- fair, or anything like that. The law is up to the Legislature, and the
- Supreme Court. ..."
-
- Obviously, this is nonsense, or we would never have had the John Peter
- Zenger verdict, let along the eventual abandonment of such evil laws as
- those against witchcraft, harboring runaway slaves, and purchase of
- alcohol, which no jury would enforce, no matter how thoroughly the
- prosecution proved "she done it."
-
- Instead, the Sparf court SHOULD have ruled that "In every jury trial, the
- judge shall painstakingly instruct the jurors that it is not merely their
- right, but also their duty, to apply their judgment and their common sense
- to the question not just of whether the letter of the law has been
- violated, but also whether said law is constitutional, and has been
- appropriately applied in this case, in the interest of justice.
-
- "Obviously, if they believe the law violates any of the Great Rights
- guaranteed by the first 10 Amendments, or was passed in excess of the
- Legislature's EXPRESS delegated authority, they must set the defendant free
- without ever COMING to the question of whether he or she committed the act
- charged, since (under the wise precedent of Marbury vs. Madison), any law
- which is unconstitutional, is null and void, and is to be treated as though
- it never was.
-
- "Constitutionality of the law in question is the FIRST question this and
- every jury must answer, for which purpose they shall be provided in their
- chambers with a copy of the appropriate statute book, and of their state
- and federal Constitutions, including the Bill of Rights, which (they will
- be reminded) is the Supreme Law of the Land."
-
- While actually freeing up courts and police to provide speedier justice
- for real, violent felons, this step would also serve the purpose of a quick
- vaccination, safeguarding the liberties of our fellow citizens during
- whatever time it takes us to deconstruct the rest of the collectivist
- police state.
-
- # # #
-
- After that, eliminating the IRS and its claimed authority, the 16th
- Amendment, would be paramount, since that would starve the beast.
-
- The degree of slavery and invasion of privacy to which we have grown
- accustomed under that regime is incalculable. Imagine being asked by a
- federal agent, "What's your address? Show me some ID. What's your Social
- Security number? How much did you earn last year?" and being able to reply:
- "None of those things are any of your business. I have no 'number.' I won't
- tell you whether I use any bank, or if so where. Yes, I happen to have
- $400,000 in cash in this bag, with no record of where I got it, or what I
- plan to do with it. And if you try to take a single dollar, I will shoot
- you dead, and every man here will buy me a beer for my trouble. Any other
- questions?"
-
- It would not generally be pragmatic to say such things today, so beaten
- down and accustomed are our fellow sufferers (and prospective jurors) to
- the role of docile, unquestioning beef cattle for our federal masters. With
- the income-tax amendment repealed, however, it would become obvious to all
- that this is the only proper response to any government attempt to invade
- our financial privacy.
-
- Next, of course, would have to come the shutting down the DEA and the
- repeal of all drug laws -- or overturning them for violating the Ninth
- Amendment, which they all do. (A constitutional amendment was required to
- authorize alcohol Prohibition, in 1919. When did we ratify the amendments
- authorizing Prohibition of previously-legal opium, cocaine and marijuana?)
-
- Uptight, blue-blazer "nerf libertarians" will whimper that this sounds as
- though our politics are merely a shield for permissiveness on drug use. In
- fact, I see no sign that any drug law has ever REDUCED drug use, so that's
- a red herring.
-
- (All such Prohibitions are merely failed bluffs. We bluff that if the
- minority youths won't stop using their drugs of choice, we'll put them all
- in prison ... hoping a few examples will convince them. Instead, they keep
- using marijuana and cocaine, so we're well on the way to putting them all
- in prison. But the original goal was not to build a huge prison industry,
- but to bluff them out of using their drugs of choice ... remember? The
- bluff has FAILED, long ago ... so badly that they're now even using their
- drugs of choice, IN prison.)
-
- # # #
-
- I choose the drug laws because they're the ones most commonly used to
- justify shredding and defecating all over the rest of the Bill of Rights,
- though they're followed closely by ...
-
- All federal firearms laws, starting with the big Firearms Acts of 1934
- and 1968, both of which blatantly violate and dishonor the Second
- Amendment. Repeal or overturn them all, and disallow any future government
- sinecures or paychecks for any past or present agents of the ATF (while
- indicting a good many for fraud, coercion, treason, and depriving citizens
- of their civil rights under color of law). We would then find ourselves
- with an ARMED population of fully-informed jurors -- free men and women,
- peaceable and polite, no longer afraid of their own government.
-
- If the source of all power is in the people, and government agents are
- our servants, then it is only the ARMED CITIZEN who can ask the GOVERNMENT
- OFFICIAL to unload and hand over his or her firearm until our conversation
- is concluded. Law-abiding citizens will peaceably submit to arrest by
- unarmed officers, as the Brits have been proving for a century. But only if
- they believe they will have a fair chance to explain their case to a
- RANDOMLY-SELECTED and fully-informed jury of their peers, and in a hurry.
-
- Of course, we could just as well get rid of virtually any department,
- program, or allocation dreamed up since 1912. But I think the above would
- be a good morning's work, in terms of demonstrating how well America could
- survive -- as it happily and prosperously did from 1781 to 1912 -- with
- liberties restored, and the entire police state put out to pasture.
-
- You don't rediscover the Sleeping Beauty of liberty or the Constitution
- by delicately pruning away dead twigs from the outside of the thicket. You
- have to go in with bulldozers, hewing broad access corridors to the castle
- on Day One, while you're at your strongest.
-
-
- Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas
- Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at vin@lvrj.com. The web
- site for the Suprynowicz column is at http://www.nguworld.com/vindex/. The
- column is syndicated in the United States and Canada via Mountain Media
- Syndications, P.O. Box 4422, Las Vegas Nev. 89127.
-
- ***
-
-
- Vin Suprynowicz, vin@lvrj.com
-
- "The right of self-defense is the first law of nature; in most governments
- it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest
- limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and when the right
- of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext
- whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the
- brink of destruction." -- Henry St. George Tucker, in Blackstone's 1768
- "Commentaries on the Laws of England."
-
-
-
-
- - ----END FORWARDED MESSAGE----
-
- - --
-
- Charles C. Hardy | If my employer has an opinion on
- <chardy@es.com> | these things I'm fairly certain
- 801.588.7200 (work) | I'm not the one he'd have express it.
-
- "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." --
- Santayana
-
- - -
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 08:40:17 -0700
- From: DAVID SAGERS <dsagers@ci.west-valley.ut.us>
- Subject: vote in NBC poll -Forwarded
-
- Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id DAA10096; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 03:21:27 -0400 (EDT)
- Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 03:21:27 -0400 (EDT)
- Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3)
- id sma010038; Tue Apr 7 03:19:10 1998
- Message-Id: <7b96f94d.3529c379@aol.com>
- Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com
- Reply-To: EdgarSuter@aol.com
- Originator: noban@mainstream.net
- Sender: noban@Mainstream.net
- Precedence: bulk
- From: EdgarSuter <EdgarSuter@aol.com>
- To: Multiple recipients of list <noban@mainstream.net>
- Subject: vote in NBC poll
- X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
- X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list
-
- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
- Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 05:20:59 -0500
- From: John Wilson <voyager@mo.net>
- Reply-To: fap@world.std.com
- To: fap@world.std.com
- Subject: ANOTHER POLL
-
- Another poll on MSNBC
-
- Asking about support for the Permanate ban on military assault style
- firearms. GO VOTE
-
- http://www.msnbc.com/news/156278.asp
-
- John Wilson
- voyager@mo.net
-
-
-
- - -
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 08:52:03 -0700
- From: DAVID SAGERS <dsagers@ci.west-valley.ut.us>
- Subject: NBC Boycott -Forwarded
-
- Received: from fs1.mainstream.net
- ([206.97.102.4])
- by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Thu, 09 Apr 1998 08:04:09 -0600
- Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id KAA09725; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:01:08 -0400 (EDT)
- Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:01:08 -0400 (EDT)
- Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3)
- id sma009649; Thu Apr 9 09:57:04 1998
- Message-Id: <v01510103b151c046241c@[209.20.135.207]>
- Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com
- Reply-To: handgnr@nwlink.com
- Originator: noban@mainstream.net
- Sender: noban@Mainstream.net
- Precedence: bulk
- From: handgnr@nwlink.com (Dave Workman)
- To: Multiple recipients of list <noban@mainstream.net>
- Subject: NBC Boycott
- X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
- X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list
-
- >Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 11:42:15 -0400 (EDT)
- >X-Sender: holster@tiac.net
- >Mime-Version: 1.0
- >To: raffica@ibm.net, fj1200s@woodland.mv.com, molly@xtdl.com,
- > jchoate003@aol.com, hgarrin@worldnet.att.net, hunthud@aol.com,
- > print@xtdl.com, rhodesc@petersenpub.com, duncan4521@aol.com,
- > handgnr@nwlink.com
- >From: Mitch Rosen <holster@mitchrosen.com>
- >Subject: NBC Boycott
- >
- > From: Robert P. Firriolo <firriolo@ix.netcom.com>
- >Subject: NBC BOYCOTT - LIRR "INCIDENT" TV MOVIE
- > Date: 04/07/98 07:59 PM
- >
- >NBC TV Movie Set to Attack RKBA and NRA
- >
- >Variety is reporting that the upcoming TV movie on the LIRR massacre
- >entitled "The Incident on Long Island" will contain unrestrained attacks
- >on the NRA and politicians (by name) who voted to repeal the "assault
- >weapon" ban. "Incident" is a fluff piece on notoriously anti-gun Rep.
- >Carolyn McCarthy (D, NY) and is produced by Barbra Streisand.
- >
- >Consider the following quote from Amy Archerd's 4/7/98 Variety story:
- >
- > [Director Joe] Sargent, now in final post on the
- > TriStar-NBC project, tells me the script explains
- > how the NRA errs in its claims of protection for
- > the Second Amendment. A lobbyist in the movie
- > states, "Did you know that former Chief Justice
- > Burger called the NRA's misrepresentation of the
- > Second Amendment one of the greatest pieces of fraud
- > on the American public by special interest groups
- > that he'd ever seen -- the Second Amendment has never
- > been about the right of an individual to bear arms!
- > It's about the right to arm a militia. A well-
- > regulated militia."
- >
- >This program is scheduled to be broadcast by NBC on May 3, during
- >"sweeps week." For those who do not know, that is the period when TV
- >ratings are most carefully analyzed. Among other things, it allows
- >broadcasters to set advertising rates based on the popularity of their
- >shows. It is a safe bet that NBC will rerun the program before the
- >November election, too, as Rep. McCarthy is running for re-election for
- >the first time.
- >
- >Let me be the first to suggest contacting NBC and informing them that
- >not only will you and your family not watch the show, but you will
- >boycott all sponsors who advertise on the program. Tell them we will
- >not stand for intentional distortions of fact and slander of the NRA,
- >RKBA, and our political allies.
- >
- >If this promise of a boycott picks up steam, it may be hard for NBC to
- >sell advertising for the program. I doubt we can keep it off the air,
- >but we can make these anti-freedom Hollywood elite's jobs tougher. We
- >may even get them to edit out the anti-gun content, but I wouldn't hold
- >my breath waiting for that to happen.
- >
- >We have to try, though. Start contacting NBC now.
- >
- >Send your comments to movies@nbc.com.
- >
- >Please forward and cross-post.
- >
- >__________________
- >Robert P. Firriolo
- >
- >*******************************************************************
- >"Little more can reasonably be aimed at, with respect to the people
- > at large, than to have them properly armed and equipped."
- >
- > - Alexander Hamilton
- > The Federalist Papers - Number 29
- >*******************************************************************
- >
-
-
-
-
- - -
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 17:15:07 -0700
- From: DAVID SAGERS <dsagers@ci.west-valley.ut.us>
- Subject: I just called BATF re magazine ban (fwd) -Forwarded
-
- Received: from fs1.mainstream.net
- ([206.97.102.4])
- by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Thu, 09 Apr 1998 16:51:41 -0600
- Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id SAA03491; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:48:48 -0400 (EDT)
- Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:48:48 -0400 (EDT)
- Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3)
- id sma003301; Thu Apr 9 18:47:25 1998
- Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980409165820.4800F-100000@infoserv.utdallas.edu>
- Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com
- Reply-To: pwatson@utdallas.edu
- Originator: noban@mainstream.net
- Sender: noban@Mainstream.net
- Precedence: bulk
- From: pwatson@utdallas.edu
- To: Multiple recipients of list <noban@mainstream.net>
- Subject: I just called BATF re magazine ban (fwd)
- X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
- X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list
-
-
-
-
-
- - ---------- Forwarded message ----------
- Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:29:54 -6
- From: Dan Day <dcd@firstnethou.com>
- Reply-To: texas-gun-owners@Mailing-List.net
- To: texas-gun-owners@Mailing-List.net
- Subject: I just called BATF re magazine ban
-
- Posted to texas-gun-owners by "Dan Day" <dcd@firstnethou.com>
- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------
- I was curious about the extent of the full ramifications of
- Feinstein's "big magazine ban", so I called up the text of
- the bill at the GPO site. It's short and sweet, and just
- does two simple things:
- 1. Outlaws importation of any large magazine, by anyone, period.
- (A "large magazine" is any magazine over 10 rounds which
- is not a tubular .22 magazine).
- 2. Makes it illegal to "transfer" any large magazine (except
- by the government elite, of course).
-
- It would remain legal to continue to own any pre-1994 magazines
- that you already have in your possession.
-
- Note, however, the word "transfer" in #2 above. What, exactly,
- is legally considered a "transfer"? Not knowing the finer points
- of that myself, I decided to call the folks who would be in charge
- of actually enforcing that law. The local Houston BATF office
- wasn't really sure, so they referred me to the ATF's Assistant
- Chief Counsel office in Dallas. There, an ATF lawyer answered the
- phone, and was quite helpful.
-
- "Transfer", as you would expect, includes sale, trade, pawn, or
- giving as a gift, since clearly a transfer of legal ownership is
- a "transfer". However, I was surprised to learn that the courts
- have also decreed that borrowing, using, or handling an item that
- belongs to someone else is also considered a "transfer", even if
- the owner is standing right there next to you. The ATF attorney
- mentioned a late-70's 5th Circuit Court case in which someone was
- nailed for simply handling a machine gun long enough to shoot it
- at a range while the owner was standing nearby. The attorney
- also opined that technically you could get busted for an illegal
- "transfer" for simply handing a magazine to someone for them to
- look at for ten seconds.
-
- Yes, that's right -- if Feinstein's bill passes, you can become a
- convicted felon under federal law if *anyone* besides you handles
- your magazine, or however briefly shoots your firearm if it has a
- large magazine in it (as many modern pistols do).
-
- I also asked him what happens to your magazines when you die,
- since there's no legal way they can be "transferred" from your
- estate to a new owner. He admitted that this was a good
- question, and he had no idea as to what the answer would be. Laws
- concerning NFA weapons (e.g. machine guns) have an explicit
- "death transfer" clause, but Feinstein's ban does not. It seems
- to me that technically even picking up your magazine (from your
- cold dead fingers) to take it away to be destroyed would be
- considered an illegal transfer.
-
- Finally, I was amused that when I asked the ATF attorney if I
- had his permission to mention his name in this article, he replied
- "I'd really rather you didn't"...
- - --
- For help with Majordomo commands, send a message to majordomo@mailing-list.net
- with the word help in the message body.
-
-
-
- - -
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:34:12 -0700
- From: DAVID SAGERS <dsagers@ci.west-valley.ut.us>
- Subject: NRA Alert -Forwarded
-
- Received: from fs1.mainstream.net
- ([206.97.102.4])
- by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:20:37 -0600
- Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id QAA02968; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:18:29 -0400 (EDT)
- Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:18:29 -0400 (EDT)
- Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3)
- id sma002864; Fri Apr 10 16:17:08 1998
- Message-Id: <199804101948.MAA23101@gde.GDEsystems.COM>
- Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com
- Reply-To: James.McBride@gdesystems.com
- Originator: noban@mainstream.net
- Sender: noban@Mainstream.net
- Precedence: bulk
- From: JT McBride <James.McBride@gdesystems.com>
- To: Multiple recipients of list <noban@mainstream.net>
- Subject: NRA Alert
- X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
- X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list
-
-
- Haven't seen this on the list yet:
-
- Call your senators today (4/9/98). Tell them to support Sen. Craig's
- amendment (S.Amdt. 1604) to override Komrade Klinton's recent gun ban by
- executive order. All the guns he just banned are legal under the rules
- he made in 1994.
-
- Senate phone no.: 202-224-3121
-
- also call your representative at 202-224-3121 and tell him to support
- the companion bill, H.R. 2734.
-
- CALL EVERYONE YOU KNOW AND TELL THEM TO DO THIS TODAY!!!
-
- L. Mahanay
-
-
-
- - -
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: Fri, 10 Apr 98 23:23:00 -0700
- From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON)
- Subject: MinuteMan Alert Network
-
- - ---------- Forwarded message ----------
- Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:12:53 -0500
- From: JVS <farout@netunlimited.net>
- To: FRATRUM <fratrum@netside.com>,
- IGNITION POINT <ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com>
- Subject: Please Forward
-
- Gun Owners of America, Inc.
- 8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
- Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408
- E-Mail: goamail@gunowners.org
- http://www.gunowners.org
-
- *** A Special Message From Larry Pratt, Executive Director
- of Gun Owners of America ***
-
- Dear Fellow American:
-
- It happened in Nazi Germany about (60) years ago.
-
- It is happening in England as of July 1, 1997.
-
- It has even happened in New York City, New York.
-
- First, gun registration. Then, gun confiscation.
-
- In Congress anti-gunners are still on the offensive toward
- their goal of a complete ban on private firearms ownership.
-
- As you may know, Gun Owners of America is the
- no-compromise gun rights lobby organization supported by
- hundreds of thousands of pro-gun friends across America.
-
- Our position on gun control is: It's not Constitutional.
- And to make sure politicians get the message, we work with
- grassroots pro-gunners.
-
- Gun Owners of America and our members have no problem
- saying to the legislators who want to sell-out our rights
- "Don't tread on me and my gun rights."
-
- In Washington, Gun Owners of America fights legislative
- battles to protect your gun rights.
-
- However, sometimes the best defense is a good offense.
-
- In fact, in over a half a dozen states -- in 1997 alone --
- Gun Owners of America staff and members have been working
- with state legislatures to repeal laws that force gun owners
- to get a permission slip in order to carry a gun concealed.
-
- We are also on the offensive to push for a "Vermont-style"
- concealed carry law that simply says every law abiding
- citizen has the right to carry a gun concealed. There are
- no government hoops, no fingerprints, no mandatory
- training, no forms, no licenses, and no fees.
-
- This is Gun Owners of America's position: NO GUN CONTROL ALLOWED.
-
- Now it's time to take that aggressive offensive approach to
- reclaiming our gun rights to legislative battles in
- Washington D.C. and your state capital.
-
- Will you join the effort?
-
- I AM ASKING YOU TO JOIN OUR FREE LEGISLATIVE ALERT AND
- ACTION NETWORK -- THE MINUTEMAN ALERT.
-
- MinuteMan Alert participants receive timely communication
- alerts (via e-mail) when there are bills or other actions
- being made in Washington or your state capital.
-
- As a participant, you'll get the facts you need to let the
- politicians know just where you -- the pro-gun voter -- stand
- and what the politician must do.
-
- Your action will apply pressure to legislators when they need it
- the most. Together with other gun rights supporters you and I can
- make the legislator "feel the heat" until they "see the light."
-
- As you know, petitioning an elected official is a powerful
- legislative tool.
-
- Elected officials fear angry voters. That is why grass-roots
- action is so powerful. It reminds elected officials that
- they are there to serve the people and will be held
- accountable by the people.
-
- But you know that when push comes to shove, politics is a numbers game.
-
- Hundreds means more than tens, and thousands mean more than hundreds.
-
- That is why I am asking you to subscribe, right now, to Gun
- Owners of America's MinuteMan Alert. Every person counts.
- You can make the difference.
-
- ITS EASY TO SUBSCRIBE, HERE'S HOW:
-
- 1) SEND AN E-MAIL MESSAGE (OR FORWARD THIS MESSAGE) TO GOAMAIL@GUNOWNERS.ORG
-
- 2) BE SURE TO INDICATE WHICH STATE YOU LIVE IN AND LIST THAT
- INFORMATION IN THE SUBJECT LINE OR BODY OF THE MESSAGE.
-
- After you send Gun Owners of America a request to subscribe, you
- should shortly thereafter receive a confirmation e-mail from our office.
-
- After that, you will receive alerts as they become necessary.
-
- I hope that you will subscribe to Gun Owners of America's
- MinuteMan Alert Network. As you can tell, there is nothing
- to lose -- it is a free service. All I ask is that you try
- to take the requested action in the alerts you receive.
-
- Also, please know that your e-mail address will remain confidential.
-
- If you would like more information you may call our main phone
- number [703-321-8585] and request an information pack on Gun Owners
- of America or you may e-mail your request to: goamail@gunowners.org
-
- You may also visit our Internet Web Site at http://www.gunowners.org
-
- I look forward to hearing from you.
-
- Sincerely,
-
- Larry Pratt
- Executive Director
- Gun Owners of America, Inc.
- 8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102
- Springfield, VA 22151
- E-Mail: goamail@gunowners.org
-
-
- - -
-
- ------------------------------
-
- End of utah-firearms-digest V2 #44
- **********************************
-
-