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utah-firearms-digest      Tuesday, April 7 1998      Volume 02 : Number 043




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Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 16:55:52 -0700
From: DAVID SAGERS <[e-mail]>
Subject: (Fwd) Yet another poll -Forwarded

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From: "R. Lunn" <[e-mail]>
To: Multiple recipients of list <[e-mail]>
Subject: (Fwd) Yet another poll
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list


    Another one- vote early and vote often

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:04:19 -0700
From: Jon Franklin <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: (Fwd) Yet another poll

- --- Forwarded mail from [e-mail]

Go vote on this one. The question is whether congress should pass an all
out ban on the sales of hi-cap magazines, or not. I beleive that this
information is forwarded on to our elected officials.

http://www.netline-to-congress.com/index.htm

- ---End of forwarded mail from [e-mail]

- --
Jon Franklin        AG Communication Systems, Phoenix, AZ
[e-mail]           http://www.agcs.com
x4064         S64



- -

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Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 17:00:30 -0700
From: DAVID SAGERS <[e-mail]>
Subject: intellectualcapital poll -Forwarded

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From: Carl Reimann <[e-mail]>
To: Multiple recipients of list <[e-mail]>
Subject: intellectualcapital poll
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list

This one seems to require a cookie. I know this only because I always
reject cookies. This poll invites comparison of potential methods of
reducing crime.

Carl

- ---Forwarded Msg---
  Tuesday, 31 March
  Roger Oakey <[e-mail]>:

Posted to rkba-co by Roger Oakey <[e-mail]>
- -----------------------
http://www.intellectualcapital.com/issues/98/0326/icpoll.asp
- ---End Forwarded Msg---


- -

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Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 10:53:59 -0700
From: DAVID SAGERS <[e-mail]>
Subject: letters, articles -Forwarded

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To: Multiple recipients of list <[e-mail]>
Subject: letters, articles
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list

I have noticed a lot of gun guys are writing letters to the editor,
opinion pieces and letters to legislators and corporations.

When you do this, please work in the phrase "guns save lives."
Eventually, we will thoroughly permeate the psyche of Americans with a
term that reinforces the truth they already know.  Statements that
reinforce existing subconscious understanding are very powerful and
memorable.

If you write a letter about the subject, note something along the lines
of:

"Firearms help to protect much more often than they are used to harm.
Guns save lives."

If you are on talk radio or interviewed for any medium, work it into the
conversation.  If somebody asks why you are for or against a bill, say
"Guns save lives."  It is a good conversation opener and reiterates a
point that will aid our struggle long term.

THANKS
- -Rick
- --
Don't agonize.  Organize.
http://GunsSaveLives.com


(Opinions here are personal and not those of any organization.)


- -

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Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 15:08:52 -0700
From: Will Thompson <[e-mail]>
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Fear Mongering on CCW permits]]

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Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 14:43:17 -0700
To: Will Thompson <[e-mail]>
From: "S. Thompson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fear Mongering on CCW permits]
In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]>
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At 01:29 PM 4/2/98 -0700, you wrote:
>                Gun Law Lets Felons Slip Through Cracks
>
> BY TOM ZOELLNER
> THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE
>
>
>     It happened only four times in 1997. In each case, the
> gun-carrier brandished a weapon during a traffic dispute, said
> Peterson. In 1996, one man lost his license for pointing his gun at
> somebody during an aggravated assault, and another man's license was
> revoked after he attemtped to commit suicide with his concealed
> weapon.

How do you commit suicide with a "concealed weapon"?  Hide it under your hat?
These idiots are just amazing!

Sarah



- -

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Date: Fri, 03 Apr 98 07:21:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: Yet Another Poll (fwd)

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 11:42:32 -0600 (CST)
From: Todd Gillespie <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Yet another poll (fwd)

On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Scott Bergeson wrote:

> Go vote on this one. The question is whether congress should pass an all
> out ban on the sales of hi-cap magazines, or not. I believe that this
> information is forwarded on to our elected officials.

> http://www.netline-to-congress.com/index.htm

Unfortunately, there's a different question there today.  This was
yesterday's question.  However, the responses to the hi-cap mags question
was 98% against the ban and 2% in favor.  Would that the other polls use
the same sample!

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I kissed that girl's inner thighs when she was six days old -- I said,
`Look at those little polkas,'"

 -- Stinking Attorney William Ginsburg of his client, Monica
Lewinsky, in the March 2, 1998 issue of Time magazine




- -

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Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 08:57:42 -0700
From: DAVID SAGERS <[e-mail]>
Subject: Roll Call (fwd) -Forwarded

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From: [e-mail] (Bill Vance)
To: Multiple recipients of list <[e-mail]>
Subject: Roll Call (fwd)
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list

On Apr 2, John Curtis wrote:

[-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------]

http://www.rollcall.com/

   Roll Call magazine is offering an interesting service.

   Enter your zipcode and they'll tell you who your rep and
   Senators are (U.S., not state).

   They will also allow you to compose a letter to be printed,
   or send email, with some formatting.

   They have a full set of concise bios of the Congress and
   some other doo dads.

   If the urge strikes to write, and your browser is fired
   up, this looks like its worthwhile.

   ciao,

   jcurtis

[------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------]

- --
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
           *****       Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel!        *****
- ----------------+----------+--------------------------+---------------------
An _EFFECTIVE_  | Insured  | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no
weapon in every | by COLT; |         --   Max Plank   | weapon sell his
hand = Freedom  |   DIAL   | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a
on every side!  | 1911-A1. | word.   --   The Bible   | sword.--Jesus Christ
- ----------------+----------+--------------------------+---------------------


- -

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Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 13:03:33 -0700
From: "S. Thompson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: USSC News

Just a reminder.....

The next meeting of the Board of Trustees of USSC will be held on Monday,
April 6 in Taylorsville.  It's at the Park Library, 4870 South, 2700 West,
and will start at 6 PM.  Meetings are OPEN to all interested persons.

Please try to attend this meeting!  Although I don't have the formal
agenda, we will probably be discussing the questionnaire which will be sent
to all legislators regarding firearms issues.  We will also begin planning
our strategies and determining positions and goals for both the upcoming
Interim sessions of the legislature and for next year's legislative
session.  If you would like your opinions heard, or have suggestions and/or
requests, we'd love to hear them!

If you are unable to attend, you may forward comments to the Board members
listed below, but there's no substitute for actually being there!  I hope
to see as many of you as possible!

Sarah Thompson


The following Board members have volunteered to have their contact info
made public.  Please feel free to contact them, but please do not abuse
their open-door policy.

Doug Henrichsen, 771-3196(h), [e-mail]
Elwood Powell,  426-8274 or 583-2882 (h), 364-0412 (w),
    [e-mail]
Shirley Spain, 963-0784, [e-mail]
Bob Templeton, 544-9125 (w), 546-2275 (h)
Sarah Thompson, 566-1067, [e-mail]  (I prefer e-mail to phone
calls when possible).
Joe Venus, 571-2223


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Apr 98 07:47:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: NRA-ILA FAX ALERT

NRA-ILA FAX ALERT
11250 Waples Mill Road * Fairfax, VA  22030
Phone: [phone] * Fax: [phone] * [e-mail]

Vol. 5, No. 13
4/3/98

BIGGER CLINTON GUN BAN PREMIERS ON MONDAY

For the better part of the past five months, the Clinton
Administration has been hard at work searching for reasons why
countless foreign-made firearms should be permanently banned from
importation into the United States. Word is that we'll get our
first look at their recommendations on Monday, when their "study"
of the suitability of these guns for so-called sporting purposes
is scheduled to be released at a White House ceremony. You'll
recall that the President ordered this "study" back in November,
when, by Executive Order, he suspended all permits for the import
of certain semi-automatics. Now, after weeks of stalling, it
looks like the President and his anti-Second Amendment cohorts in
Congress plan to take full advantage of the Jonesboro tragedy in
this latest and most shameless attempt yet to advance their war
on America's law-abiding gun owners. We expect the president to
permanently prohibit countless foreign-made firearms from American
shores, despite the fact that they are all perfectly legal under
his own 1994 gun ban. Even more unbelievable, the Administration
is expected to cancel the permits already issued to importers to
bring shipments of these firearms into the U.S., even on those
firearms that are now on American soil but have yet to clear
customs. Businessmen who put up their own money, jumped through
all the legal hoops, and put up with all the government's red tape
to get these perfectly legal guns into the country, will never
be able to take possession of them, and will lose their entire
investment. This latest stunt is but another of the countless
examples of this President's complete disregard for the law and
for the rights of American citizens. And it demonstrates once
again that no matter what they say, the goal of Bill Clinton
and his minions in Congress is a complete and total gun ban.

CONGRESS ON BREAK, BUT THREATS STILL PENDING

Federal lawmakers have gone home for their Easter district work
period, which means that now is an excellent time for you to
schedule face to face meetings with your elected officials, and
voice your concerns regarding some developing issues. While the
citizens of Jonesboro are still mourning the losses to their
community, anti-freedom zealots have chosen to exploit this
horrible incident to promote their anti-Second Amendment agenda.
Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-Cal.) held a press conference on
Tuesday to promote her effort to further restrict certain
ammunition feeding devices because of their capacity. It is
anticipated that her proposal would call for prohibiting the sale
and transfer of "high capacity" magazines that were previously
grandfathered by the 1994 Crime Bill. Also, Senators Richard
Durbin (D-Ill.) and John Chafee (R-R.I.) have called for
mandatory "safe storage" laws for your personal firearms.
Mandatory "safe storage" might be better named "The Burglar
Protection Act of 1998," as it would mean that your personal
protection firearms would be useless to you if you ever faced a
violent criminal attacker. The only person that would be "safe"
would be the criminal. Furthermore, how would such a law be
enforced without violating the Fourth Amendment protections
against illegal searches of your home? While safety programs
like NRA's Eddie Eagle help to prevent firearm accidents, the
Durbin/Chaffee proposal could only be enforced after the fact,
when tragedy has already struck. Right now, however, no
legislation on these proposals has actually been introduced, as
these opponents of freedom and personal protection have focused
their efforts on grabbing the media spotlight created by
Jonesboro. If you meet with your lawmakers, or call them at
their district offices, please remind them that the nation needs
time to heal from deep wounds caused by the horrific events in
Arkansas. Remind them that we do not need half-baked "solutions,"
or to blame law-abiding gun owners. Urge them to support the
Constitution, and oppose all efforts to impose further
restrictions on your right to keep and bear arms.

FREE SPEECH UPDATE

Good news! The U.S. House of Representatives considered numerous
Campaign Finance "reforms" this week, but voted to pass two bills
that did not contain anything that would adversely affect NRA's
ability to communicate with our members. While there is still the
possibility that attacks on the First Amendment will be brought up
in the future, especially through the discharge petition mentioned
last week (Vol. 5, No. 12), it looks like the pressure NRA members
put on lawmakers really paid off.

=+=+=+=+
This information is provided as a service of the National Rifle
Association Institute for Legislative Action, Fairfax, VA.

This and other information on the Second Amendment and the NRA is
available at: http://WWW.NRA.Org



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 18:41:14 -0600
From: "S. Thompson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: USSC Meeting CHANGE!!!

PLEASE NOTE THE FOLLOWING CHANGE IN THE LOCATION OF THE USSC MEETING!!
Apolgies for any inconvenience or confusion.

The next meeting of the Board of Trustees of USSC will be held on Monday,
April 6 in Taylorsville.  It's at the Calvin Smith Library, 810 E. 3300 S.,
and will start at 6 PM.  Meetings are OPEN to all interested persons.

Please try to attend this meeting!  Although I don't have the formal
agenda, we will probably be discussing the questionnaire which will be sent
to all legislators regarding firearms issues.  We will also begin planning
our strategies and determining positions and goals for both the upcoming
Interim sessions of the legislature and for next year's legislative
session.  If you would like your opinions heard, or have suggestions and/or
requests, we'd love to hear them!

If you are unable to attend, you may forward comments to the Board members
listed below, but there's no substitute for actually being there!  I hope
to see as many of you as possible!

Sarah Thompson



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Apr 98 22:22:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: Sarah Brady's Secret Attack Plan

On Ed Wolfe's website, Nation In Distress:
http://www.involved.com/ewolfe/distress/

06/08/14 StTN 12:35 FAX Sarah Brady

Dear Handgun Control Member,

I have marked this letter to you "confidential" because I am requesting
that you avoid discussing the contents publicly for the next several weeks.

This is because we are about to initiate action that, if successful,
will weaken the stranglehold that the gun industry, the NRA, and other
gun fanatics have over local and national gun laws.

And I am urgently requesting you to make an extraordinary gift to help
strengthen our cause.

Please let me quickly explain our plans; and then you will understand
why both your generosity and secrecy are required.

In brief, we believe there is a strong parallel between the gun industry
and the tobacco companies! As you know, citizens at the local and state
level rose up in anger and demanded clean air in restaurants and offices
when Congress failed to take action.

Here at Handgun Control Inc., it is our regrettable conclusion that this
current Congress is not going to take the initiative on gun safety for
America. Legislation is bogged down. The NRA and other gun industry lobbying
groups have multi-million dollar war chests set aside for this election year.

Consequently, it will be extremely difficult to pass any significant
legislation this year.

And so, even though we will not let up on our efforts in congress,
our focus is going to make a dramatic shift.

And we want to keep this shift as quiet as possible while we develop our plan.

In a few weeks, I will be announcing to the nation:

The Citizens Campaign Against Community Gun Trafficking

Even the title of this campaign will cause shockwaves to run through
the gun industry and the NRA at local and national levels.

We will be taking a page from the anti-smoking victories, where local
ordinances banned smoking in public facilities and eventually forced
state and national legislation to protest Americans' right to a
smoke-free environment.

And we'll remember the victories in the anti-drunk-driving movement, as well.

M.A.D.D. was formed by a small group of mothers whose children had been
killed by drunk drivers; they gathered supporters and strength at the
grassroots level around the country, and before long these mothers
started to be taken seriously everywhere, even on capitol Hill. Now,
most states have tougher penalties for drunk drivers and the liquor
industry is providing anti-drunk-driving messages in their advertising.

In much the same way, we're going to attack the gun industry and the gun
pushers at the most basic point; where money is exchanged for guns.

The Attack point: Local Gun Shows!

Local gun shows make it extremely easy to purchase a gun for private or
criminal use. And that's because most of the guns at the shows are sold
by private individuals, not by dealers; and, therefore, in most states
they are not covered by laws requiring background checks or paperwork!

So you can walk into a gun show, strike up a conversation with the guy
hawking the M-l carbine, admire its light kick, repetitive fire, and
ability to accept large magazine clips.

Then you talk to that strange man parading around in his military
fatigues, and later you meet him on the street, give him the necessary
cash and the firearm is yours.

All legal in most states, as long as that fellow is not a licensed gun dealer!

Loophole: The Second-Hand Market

Right now, federal laws focus primarily on purchases of handguns from
licensed dealers. And the Brady Handgun violence and prevention Act has
stopped many criminals from buying handguns from licensed dealers.

But most states have no laws preventing one individual from selling a
weapon to another, as long as the seller is not a licensed gun dealer.

"The individual purchasing the gun does not have to show identification,
does not have to submit to background checks. And the person selling
the gun does not need to keep a written record of the transaction or the
buyer's address and social Security number. Also, quite obviously,
there is no waiting period. All in all, this is the most outrageous
loophole in our federal gun laws.

And gun shows are where criminals do their shopping; where the
second-hand gun market really thrives.

And so, this is why one of our first goals in The Citizens Campaign Against
Community Gun Trafficking is going to be to close down the gun shows!

These gun shows are most often held on public property: civic centers,
school gymnasiums, fairgrounds, city and county convention centers.

And these giant weapons bazaars have developed considerable notoriety,
because of such high-profile cases as Oklahoma City bomber Timothy
Mcveigh, who was reported to have bought or sold weapons at gun shows.

A recent issue of "Shotgun News", the "bible" of the gun pushers,
advertised over 500 gun shows for the last three months of 1997 alone.
And this does not include many of the smaller shows and swap meets.

I believe that now you can see why our Citizens campaign Against
Community Gun Trafficking is going to result in tremendous controversy.

And I wish that we could keep it secret; 100% secret; until we are
ready to launch the campaign.

But, unlike the NRA and the right-wing, gun toting fanatics, we do not
have a multi-million dollar war chest. We depend upon grassroots support
from friends like you. And so I wanted to take the calculated risk and
share this plan with you, and hope that you will step forward and send
a significant gift to express your belief that citizens, with or without
Congress, can get things done!

In a few weeks, if you're interested, I will forward to you a 'Citizens
Action Kit," detailing exactly what can be done in your local community.

We intend to bring pressure upon mayors, city councils, school boards,
churches, and all property owners to ban the use of any facility for gun shows.

Already, we are working with Dade county, Florida, mounting an all-out
assault on gun shows in that area. I will be reporting to you about
that innovative and successful initiative before long. But, as of
now, we are not quite ready to go public with the results.

But I must quickly bring this letter to a close, after I warn you that
this is going to be a long, hard-fought campaign.

After all, it took many, many years before the tobacco industry felt the
heat of local citizens demanding a smoke-tree environment.

So we must be patient, firm, determined and uncompromising.

Our enemies will incorrectly and misleadingly scream about freedom of
speech and freedom of assembly. But in turn, we will quietly remind
them that America is involved in a gun war that is claiming 35,000
lives each year including 9,OOO murdered by handguns.

And we'll remind them that Americans must responsibly report transactions
involving cars, liquor and other products. Why should gun sales be exempt?

Every day 14 children, 19 years old and under, are killed by handguns. Much
of this mayhem is made possible by the use of public property for gun shows.

These statistics are tragic proof that a state of war exists.

And, as you know, in my case, the statistic became personal heartbreak
when my husband Jim was grievously wounded by a bullet intended for
President Reagan.

You and I must make America a safer place to live. Let's do it!

P.S. I urge you to turn to the enclosed reply slip and write out a check
in one of the amounts I've indicated. Or perhaps you can give more.
But please do the best you can.

I look forward to receiving your support, and I will trust in your silence
as we prepare our citizens Campaign Against Community Gun Trafficking.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:30:25 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Charles Hardy)
Subject: [[e-mail]: [[e-mail]: "Our Freedom"]]

I sent this out last year about this time of year, but it seems
fitting to send it out again...

- ----BEGIN FORWARDED MESSGE----

"Our Freedom"

Copyright (c) 1997, Michael Kielsky.  All Rights Reserved.
<[e-mail]>

A true story, as handed down to me:

- --- --- --- ---

It was a time of increasing conflict.  The British were becoming more
oppressive, the searches for guns more frequent, imprisonment and even
hangings of those who were caught opposing British rule by force, more
regular.

One evening, Father was still out and Mother was otherwise occupied, I
found something I should not have.  Ever the curious and restless 17
year old, I looked in father's private chest, and was quite astonished!

Our family had come to this promised land only 13 years earlier.  Back
in the old country, Father had been a successful practicioner in the
law.  He was well suited for it, he was a stern and severe man.  And oh
so intelligent.  But, when he sensed that oppression was looming, and
bad times were ahead, he decided to take his wife and 4 year old child
(that was me) to join his brother who had made some success for himself
over here.

Father's sacrifice was great.  A new language, law quite unfamiliar to
him, a pioneer country for a man who's upbringing and education had not
quite prepared him for these challenges.  Instead of his beloved law, he
became a store clerk during the day, while at night he studied the
language, and this law new to him, so that someday he could once again
put his mind to the law.

What I discovered, what so surprised me, is that Father, so severe, so
upright, so stern, he had secretly a become a member of one of the
forbidden patriot groups!

Yes, I had a times fantasized about joining, to do what I could to help
our cause, to give us our freedom apart from Britain, to prepare for a
war we all feared might come!  But I would not dare join in with these
outlaws, what if Father had found out!  But now, when even this man of
the law has secretly taken up arms, now I could not keep still.

I asked a friend of mine, one who I believed was a member of this
patriot group, to see if I too could join up, and only a few days later,
my friend sent me to a school house, not too far from my home.  There, I
could possibly join.

I entered the school, and saw a few people already sitting there,
waiting.  I knew none of them.  I sat and waited.  One by one, the
others were called into another room, each returning after a while had
passed.

At last, it was my turn.  I entered the room, it was almost completely
dark, but for one small candle.  As best as I could make out, the other
figures in this room had their faces concealed by scarves or hoods.  I
was asked a series of questions, about my background, my family, my
motivations for wanting to join, was I clear about the dangers, would I
give up my comrades were I captured by the British?  The questions
finally ended, and I was told to go back out and wait.

That day, I was given my first assignment.  In the evenings, I was to go
to the house of a very religious family, a family sympathetic to our
cause, and a house that just happened to overlook a British
installation.  There I was to take careful notes of everything that I
observed, and provide regular and detailed reports to my contacts.  I
continued this assignment, on a regular rotation, for over two months.
I told Father nothing, and he appeared not to know.  When I would be out
all night, I would tell him that I was with friends, as they would tell
of being with me when they were on an assignment.

Another time, after completing this assignment, a number of us went to a
remote farm, and received some training in the use of guns, as most of
us had no experience.

At other training exercises, we were taught how to disassemble, clean,
and reassemble, and load guns, especially in darkness.

Father knew nothing of my activities, as I really knew nothing of his.

War came, and I fought along with the rest, now no longer an outlaw
organization, but reformed into a regular army!  Father and I, no longer
members in secret, once talked of our experiences.  Yes, he had
suspected all along.

Father fought too, and while I saw little battle, Father had one
terrible experience.  He came through alive and in once piece, but in
this battle, his friend shot dead right next to him, and under siege for
3 days until liberated by more troops, left him unable to join combat
again.

Our War of Independence was won!  Soon, most of us returned to our
lives, with pride for our new country, with sadness for the price paid.

Not many years later, Father died, perhaps worn out too young by the
challenges of a new world, a new language, and a war his sense of
justice required him to fight.

Eventually, I became a teacher.  I married, had three children, and to
them and their children, I pass on this small story.

- --- --- --- ---

Now for some details:

The war was Israel's War of Independence, 1947-49.

The story teller was my mother, and related to me (again) this evening,
after our Passover meal.  She even has some photographs of herself with
a variety of firearms.  Yes, my mother wore army boots (once only one
boot, but that's another story).

I thought this was rather appropriate, as Passover is the holiday of
freedom and liberty!

Happy Passover.

Michael
<[e-mail]>

- ----END FORWARDED MESSAGE----

- --

Charles C. Hardy  <[e-mail]> | If my employer has an opinion on
          [phone]   | these topics, I'm sure I'm not
                                  | the one he would have express it.

In March of 1916, Pancho Villa deliberately murdered 19 Americans in a
cross-border raid. This became the cause for Woodrow Wilson, a
president with a notoriously long fuse, to send Gen. Pershing 400
miles into Mexico at the head of an army of 15,000. The next time an
American plane is blown from the sky and the president of the United
States attends yet another funeral or displays his Churchillian
fortitude in begging for the power to tap telephones, think of that
different America with a braver and clearer sense of its place in the
world"
    -Mark Helprin, "Mr. Clinton's Foreign Policy", WSJ, Aug 12, 96


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 16:26:22 -0600
From: "S. Thompson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: USSC Meeting CHANGE!  (correction)

Yeesh!  Some days I just can't get ANYTHING right.  The address below is
correct, but it is in Salt Lake City, NOT in Taylorsville.  Sorry for all
the confusion.

PLEASE NOTE THE FOLLOWING CHANGE IN THE LOCATION OF THE USSC MEETING!!
Apolgies for any inconvenience or confusion.

The next meeting of the Board of Trustees of USSC will be held on Monday,
April 6 in Taylorsville.  It's at the Calvin Smith Library, 810 E. 3300 S.,
and will start at 6 PM.  Meetings are OPEN to all interested persons.

Sarah Thompson


To subscribe to the USSC mail list, send a message to:
[e-mail]
In the SUBJECT of the message put:
SUBSCRIBE USSC

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 16:26:22 -0600
From: "S. Thompson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: USSC Meeting CHANGE!  (correction)

Yeesh!  Some days I just can't get ANYTHING right.  The address below is
correct, but it is in Salt Lake City, NOT in Taylorsville.  Sorry for all
the confusion.

PLEASE NOTE THE FOLLOWING CHANGE IN THE LOCATION OF THE USSC MEETING!!
Apolgies for any inconvenience or confusion.

The next meeting of the Board of Trustees of USSC will be held on Monday,
April 6 in Taylorsville.  It's at the Calvin Smith Library, 810 E. 3300 S.,
and will start at 6 PM.  Meetings are OPEN to all interested persons.

Sarah Thompson


To subscribe to the USSC mail list, send a message to:
[e-mail]
In the SUBJECT of the message put:
SUBSCRIBE USSC

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 21:45:49 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Charles Hardy)
Subject: [[e-mail]: LPU: CNN's Talk Back Live Gun Poll -- DO IT NOW!]

- ----BEGIN FORWARDED MESSGE----

X-Authentication-Warning: mail.qsicorp.com: majordomo set sender to [e-mail] using -f
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:46:56 -0600 (MDT)
From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
X-Sender: shb4391@cor
To: Libertarian Party of Utah <[e-mail]>
Subject: LPU: CNN's Talk Back Live Gun Poll -- DO IT NOW!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: [e-mail]
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Length: 763

Charles, please forward this to utah-firearms. If I do it it
won't go out until after midnight, when the poll will have expired.

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 16:00:46 -0600
To: "New Republican Discussion List" <[e-mail]>
From: wolfeyes <[e-mail]> (by way of spiker <[e-mail]>)
Subject: CNN's Talk Back Live Gun Poll -- DO IT NOW!

Hey gang!

CNN's talkback live has a poll going on the assualt weapon ban.  go to:

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/TalkBack/index.html

Have fun!

- -- Carl



LPUtah
LPUtah -- This message sent via listserver "[e-mail]"
LPUtah -- All messages are the sole responsibility of the sender.
LPUtah -- Support: Jim Elwell, email: [e-mail]
LPUtah

- ----END FORWARDED MESSAGE----

- --

Charles C. Hardy        | If my employer has an opinion on
<[e-mail]>            | these things I'm fairly certain
801.588.7200 (work)        | I'm not the one he'd have express it.

"The prohibition is general. No clause in the Constitution could by rule
 of construction be conceived to give the Congress the power to disarm
 the people. Such a flagitious attempt could only be made under some
 general pretense by a state legislature. But if in blind pursuit of
 inordinate power, either should attempt it, this amendment may be
 appealed to as a restraint on both." -- William Rawle, 1825; considered
 academically to be an expert commentator on the Constitution. He was
 offered the position of the first Attorney General of the United States,
 by President Washington.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Apr 98 21:01:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: NO AMENDMENT// AMEND THIS AND DIE AS A SOCIETY.

Forward from Patty Neill's Australian friend ...

Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 10:38:49 +0800
From: "Chris J. Bartle" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: NO AMENDMENT// AMEND THIS AND DIE AS A SOCIETY.
To: Patricia Neill <[e-mail]>

Greetings;
I do not know if Americans fully understand how fortunate they are to have a
bill of rights and a constitution that protects those rights if only in-part.

In Australia we are 'subjects' not citizens and the only 'rights' that we
are guaranteed under law are the rights of freedom of religious assembly
'in church', that is in a church building, we have no other rights and
recently the system tried to take that right away by saying that some
churches were Nazi fronts or supported pervesions not tollerated by the
rest of society. Well the Nazi-Christians countered that the Jews support
child-sex and that was a perversion and quoted the Talmud to that effect.
The issue was dropped.

Today we enjoy the protection of the 'UN Bill of human rights', no one is
openly tortured, although it does happen at times, no one is hungry (that's
more than the USA can say about their people), health care is free for the
most part, the most one pays for prescription drugs is $7.50 (around four
dollars US) and education is almost free and one of the best in the world.

BUT, and I say again 'BUT' we need government permission to own a .177
caliber air-rifle, all semi automatic weapons, pump-action weapons and
highpowered military style weapons (including the humble .303 rifle)
are banned. It is illegal to carry a knife, electric shock self defense
Zappers are unobtainable, and one woman was prosecuted for spraying
hairspray into the eyes of a very large black man who was about to rape
her and had already knocked her down, we can not do that.

I caught a thief on my property, I called the Police and 'I' faced charges
for 'deprivation of liberty and assult' with threatening words added just
to cap it all off. The criminal dropped the charges against me if I dropped
them against him and then the Police drove him home, via MacDonalds where
they brought him a meal because he complained he was hungry.

UN Bill of Rights, you certainly don't want it, doubt me, read it,
then imagine what your political leaders would do with it.

KEEP YOUR GUNS, KEEP YOUR FREEDOMS, KEEP YOUR BILL OF RIGHTS.

Chris J. Bartle
Australian Revolutionary Movement
PO Box 2047
Rockingham
WA  6168.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 11:44:09 -0600
From: "S. Thompson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: USSC Meeting CHANGE!

Apparently there was some difficulty sending this out yesterday, and I'm
not sure everyone on  the list received it.  Apologies if this is a
duplicate, and apologies again for such late notice of the change.

Sarah

PLEASE NOTE THE FOLLOWING CHANGE IN THE LOCATION OF THE USSC MEETING!!
Apolgies for any inconvenience or confusion.

The next meeting of the Board of Trustees of USSC will be held on Monday,
April 6 in Taylorsville.  It's at the Calvin Smith Library, 810 E. 3300 S.,
and will start at 6 PM.  Meetings are OPEN to all interested persons.

Please try to attend this meeting!  Although I don't have the formal
agenda, we will probably be discussing the questionnaire which will be sent
to all legislators regarding firearms issues.  We will also begin planning
our strategies and determining positions and goals for both the upcoming
Interim sessions of the legislature and for next year's legislative
session.  If you would like your opinions heard, or have suggestions and/or
requests, we'd love to hear them!

If you are unable to attend, you may forward comments to the Board members
listed below, but there's no substitute for actually being there!  I hope
to see as many of you as possible!

Sarah Thompson


To subscribe to the USSC mail list, send a message to:
[e-mail]
In the SUBJECT of the message put:
SUBSCRIBE USSC



- -

------------------------------

End of utah-firearms-digest V2 #43
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