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movies-digest         Thursday, July 20 2000         Volume 02 : Number 275



[MV] Re: I don't wanna sound
Re: [MV] Re: I don't wanna sound
[MV] =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Another=20review=20for=20Pok=E9mon=202000?=
[MV] RE: Documentaries
Re: [MV] Documentaries
Re: [MV] Documentaries
Re: [MV] Documentaries
Re: [MV] RE: Documentaries
Re: [MV] Documentaries
Re: [MV] RE: I don't wanna sound elitist
Re: [MV] Re: I don't wanna sound
Re: [MV] Documentaries
Re: [MV] RE: Documentaries
Re: [MV] RE: I don't wanna sound elitist
Re: [MV] Documentaries
Re: [MV] Documentaries
Re: [MV] Documentaries
Re: [MV] RE: I don't wanna sound elitist
Re: [MV] RE: I don't wanna sound elitist
Re: [MV] RE: I don't wanna sound elitist
Re: [MV] Documentaries
Re: [MV] Documentaries
Re: [MV] Documentaries
RE: [MV] RE: I don't wanna sound elitist
Re: [MV] RE: I don't wanna sound elitist
RE: [MV] RE: I don't wanna sound elitist
[MV] Patriot - lite

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:07:00 -0600
From: ("Paul D  Richardson") <[e-mail]>
Subject: [MV] Re: I don't wanna sound

> Class Assignment:  Compare and contrast "Pi" with "Blair Witch" -- two
> "amateur" movies filmed in black and white, on similar minuscule bugets.

I think the two films are two different to be compared.  Obviously, BLAIR
WITCH PROJECT was more successful than PI, thanks to clever marketing and hype.

> (And generally, movies that rely on
> voice-over to keep you up with what's going on are pretty weak... although
> the intro to "American Beauty" worked pretty well.)

I agree that voice-overs in films are usually a sign of desperation on the
part of the filmmakers, although there are exceptions to the rule.  FIGHT CLUB
utilized a voiceover quite well.  I think the best use of the technique was in
THE OPPOSITE OF SEX, which employs a sort of "anti-voiceover."

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:13:40 -0500
From: "ROBOTICK" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] Re: I don't wanna sound

I hate that they ruined a good movie like Blade Runner with a voiceover in
the edited version.  If you haven't seen it uncut, it's worth renting.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: ""Paul D Richardson"" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2000 11:07 AM
Subject: [MV] Re: I don't wanna sound


> Class Assignment:  Compare and contrast "Pi" with "Blair Witch" -- two
> "amateur" movies filmed in black and white, on similar minuscule bugets.

I think the two films are two different to be compared.  Obviously, BLAIR
WITCH PROJECT was more successful than PI, thanks to clever marketing and
hype.

> (And generally, movies that rely on
> voice-over to keep you up with what's going on are pretty weak... although
> the intro to "American Beauty" worked pretty well.)

I agree that voice-overs in films are usually a sign of desperation on the
part of the filmmakers, although there are exceptions to the rule.  FIGHT
CLUB
utilized a voiceover quite well.  I think the best use of the technique was
in
THE OPPOSITE OF SEX, which employs a sort of "anti-voiceover."

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:19:53 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: [MV] =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Another=20review=20for=20Pok=E9mon=202000?=

Well, it seems that many Pok=E9mon fans are turning this one down as well. =20
Craig Harris of IGN Pocket has a review for the English version of the secon=
d=20
movie, which, apparently, he thinks is worse than the English version of=20
Mewtwo Strikes Back (well, he did like that movie).  If the translation is=20
this bad, I now have much fear about the future.

 <A HREF=3D"http://pocket.ign.com/news/22249.html">pocket.ign.com: Pok=E9Mon=
day</A
>=20

BTW, I do like MSB better in Japanese than Revelation Lugia.
- -Eric-

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:18:00 -0600
From: ("Paul D  Richardson") <[e-mail]>
Subject: [MV] RE: Documentaries

> Any suggestions for these types of films?

Anything by Errol Morris is usually a good bet.

ROGER AND ME is excellent and funny (although not for the squeamish).

BROTHER'S KEEPER

HEARTS OF DARKNESS (excellent documentary about the making of APOCALYPSE NOW)

WILD MAN BLUES (insightful picture about Woody Allen touring Europe with his
jazz band)

HOOP DREAMS

WALKING WITH DINOSAURS (a pseudo-documentary using CGI dinos and filming them
in the same manner as a nature special -- very well done)

BEYOND THE MAT (I think this is the title -- recent wrestling documentary...I
haven't seen it yet, but it's supposed to be quite good)

Of course, there are many more...those are just a few from the top of my head.

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:24:09 -0500
From: ":" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] Documentaries

one of the best documentaries that i've seen is called "ballot measure 9".

it documents a proposed measure in oregon that would have eliminated civil
rights for homosexuals; the "oregon citizens alliance", who pushed for the
measure's passage, claimed that the measure would have eliminated "special
rights" for homosexuals, when in fact it would have resulted in homosexuals
having NO civil rights.

while it is not a truly impartial film (the filmmakers do their best to be
impartial, but they end up siding with those against the measure), it does
well document the opinions of both sides; IMO, demonstrating how ridiculous
and dangerous the views of the oregon citizens alliance were and why no one
group should be singled out as persecutable.

i personally do not feel that ANYONE should have "civil rights" - i
disagree with the notion of hate crimes, etc. (i feel that a crime is a
crime, and there's no need to "specially classify" it as a "hate crime" or
anything like that - if it's a severe crime, it warrants extreme
compensation) and disagree with "fighting words" being illegal.  however, i
believe that the same standards should be applied to everyone - i cannot
accept one group (homosexuals, blacks, people with large feet, whatever)
being singled out one way or the other (positively or negatively).

At 12:01 PM 7/18/00 -0500, [e-mail] wrote:
>My local independent video store just added a Documentary section last week.
>
>I rented one called Cruising last night and I'm going to watch it on
>Thursday.
>Any suggestions for these types of films? I noticed they have a lot of PBS
>and HBO
>and some of them have over 4 tapes
>Thanks
>
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>
>

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 20:20:24 -0500
From: "ROBOTICK" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] Documentaries

OT: Remember that one is born with large feet or black skin, but
homosexuality is a choice.  Discriminating against an individual's choice,
right or wrong, is fair.  People who choose to murder children should not
complain about not being hired by the daycare center because of that choice.
If I choose to mistreat homosexuals, they have no right to complain.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: ":" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2000 5:24 PM
Subject: Re: [MV] Documentaries


one of the best documentaries that i've seen is called "ballot measure 9".

it documents a proposed measure in oregon that would have eliminated civil
rights for homosexuals; the "oregon citizens alliance", who pushed for the
measure's passage, claimed that the measure would have eliminated "special
rights" for homosexuals, when in fact it would have resulted in homosexuals
having NO civil rights.

while it is not a truly impartial film (the filmmakers do their best to be
impartial, but they end up siding with those against the measure), it does
well document the opinions of both sides; IMO, demonstrating how ridiculous
and dangerous the views of the oregon citizens alliance were and why no one
group should be singled out as persecutable.

i personally do not feel that ANYONE should have "civil rights" - i
disagree with the notion of hate crimes, etc. (i feel that a crime is a
crime, and there's no need to "specially classify" it as a "hate crime" or
anything like that - if it's a severe crime, it warrants extreme
compensation) and disagree with "fighting words" being illegal.  however, i
believe that the same standards should be applied to everyone - i cannot
accept one group (homosexuals, blacks, people with large feet, whatever)
being singled out one way or the other (positively or negatively).

At 12:01 PM 7/18/00 -0500, [e-mail] wrote:
>My local independent video store just added a Documentary section last
week.
>
>I rented one called Cruising last night and I'm going to watch it on
>Thursday.
>Any suggestions for these types of films? I noticed they have a lot of PBS
>and HBO
>and some of them have over 4 tapes
>Thanks
>
>[ To leave the movies mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ]
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>
>

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:26:31 -0300
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [MV] Documentaries

> OT: Remember that one is born with large feet or black skin, but
> homosexuality is a choice.  Discriminating against an individual's choice,
> right or wrong, is fair.  People who choose to murder children should not
> complain about not being hired by the daycare center because of that
choice.
> If I choose to mistreat homosexuals, they have no right to complain.


This almost seems like a troll post to me.
Besides which, this is a movie list and not a bash homosexuals list. If you
don't like homosexuals, who cares? I'm sure a lot of them don't like you
either. I will say that I think you are one very small step from putting a
white sheet over your head and burning crosses, whether you think so or not.
Don't bother to respond, you have been added to my "Hate Mongers Block
List."

JPC



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 20:47:53 -0500
From: ":" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] RE: Documentaries

At 01:18 PM 7/18/00 -0600, Paul D  Richardson wrote:
>> Any suggestions for these types of films?
>
>Anything by Errol Morris is usually a good bet.
>
>ROGER AND ME is excellent and funny (although not for the squeamish).

i havent seen much of anything by errol morris, though i aim to.  i really
wanted to see "mr. death", but it never came out in any st. louis theatres.
 i'll wait for video (it may be on video already, i dont know..).  i want
to see "fast, cheap & out of control".

"roger and me" can be very amusing at times (rabbit lady, and the guy who
donates blood at the blood bank that is only open on "mondays and tuesdays
and wednesdays and thursdays and fridays and saturdays."), but michael
moore's rabid communist/socialist views are horribly, horribly frustrating
to listen to.

moore: "mr. general motors, how dare you lay people off!  you owe them a
living!"
response: "bullshit!  businesses exist to make money, not support random
idiots!"

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:00:00 -0700
From: Chris Parry <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] Documentaries

> > If I choose to mistreat homosexuals, they have no right to complain.

Wake up, sparky. The world has hit the year 2000. Those still
entrenched in the mindset of the 1950's, like yourself, are well
outnumbered and getting smaller fast.
Acutally, this post reminds me of the queer-hating dad in American
Beauty.. do I sense some repressed anger in you, dear?

OZ

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 20:58:50 -0500
From: ":" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] RE: I don't wanna sound elitist

At 08:20 AM 7/18/00 -0700, David F. Nolan wrote:
>
>> At 11.19 AM 18/07/2000 -0700, Chris Parry wrote:
>>> 1. The underlying themes of 'the science of God' in the film Pi,
>>> offensive or provocative?
>
>I found this film quite intriguing, given my MIT background and a
>long-standing interest in numerical patterns. However, the jumpy camera work
>and grainy b/w photography literally gave me a headache. Still, for a movie
>that cost about 1/1,000th of what Hollywood spends on the average Jim Carrey
>flick, it was very impressive.

while i suppose i'd have to say i thought "pi" was amusing, it is an
extremely pretentious movie that really doesn't have much of anything to
say.  obviously, it wasnt intended to have some substantial thing to say
about mathematics (random 20 year old dudes wrote, directed & starred -
hell, the star is the webmaster of www.pithemovie.com, or whatever the
website is), but IMO, it has this certain arrogance about it that leads me
to feel like it's trying to seem substantial.

>>> 2. Pedro Almodovar, is his work getting better as he gets older, or
>>> simply more commercial?
>
>I'll pass on this one, having never seen any of his movies. My tastes run
>somewhere in the middle ground, between Pedro and Pokemon!  Just because a
>movie is "commercial" doesn't make it bad ... and a lot of "artistic"films
>are pretentious, boring and badly-produced. There are good and bad movies in
>all genres.

i havent seen anything other than "tie me up! tie me down!" - a mediocre
little wacky movie - though i had a desire to see "all about my mother" and
"live flesh".

>>> 3. Hal Hartley, Jim Jarmusch and Woody Allen, should a fund be set
>>> up so that these gentlemen can continue making uncommercial but
>>> nonetheless supremely artistic films, irrespective of box office?
>
>As long as the fund is made up of voluntary contributions, why not?
>But please, no more taxpayer-supported "art" !!!
>
>Woody's been going downhill since "Manhattan" in my opinion. He plays the
>same whiny, neurotic character over and over again.  I liked "Mighty
>Aphrodite," and his ant role in "Antz" but that's about it among his recent
>movies.  Actually, I think he should retire now.
>
>I liked Jarmusch's "Mystery Train," but thought that "Ghost Dog" was just
>too weird and introspective. Those are the only two I've seen.
>
>I know nothing about Hartley.   My favorite directors include Terry Gilliam,
>Ridley Scott and the Coen Brothers.

i've only gotten into woody allen in the last few months (!!), but he's
quickly become a favourite.  "annie hall", "sleeper", "manhattan", "whats
up, tiger lily?", "love & death", "mighty aphrodite", "deconstructing
harry", "sweet & lowdown" - all great little things.  only ones i've seen.

have only seen "dead man" by jarmusch, but thats a great little movie,
including what i believe is the funniest scene in film history - billy bob
thornton's gunfight around the middle of the movie when johnny depp shows
up at his party's campsite.

have only seen "henry fool" by hartley, but thats a great little movie as
well.

>>> 5. The Virgin Suicides - is Sofia Coppola a better director than
>>> dad?

"the virgin suicides" was pointless.  one of very few movies i've seen
after which i was absolutely unaffected one way or the other - i could not
come up with anything to say about it one way or the other.  which i
suppose could be construed as good - "it left you speechless!" - but i dont
see it that way.  uninteresting story, uninteresting direction,
uninteresting acting, uninteresting dialogue = pointless.

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 20:55:23 CDT
From: "Wade S" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] Re: I don't wanna sound

One of my favorite voice over movies is Shawshank Redemption. That may be
one of the best uses of it. Like you say, the Fight CLub works well with it.
I also think that The Rainmaker makes excellent use of Matt Damon's
narration, too.

Wade


>
> > (And generally, movies that rely on
> > voice-over to keep you up with what's going on are pretty weak...
>although
> > the intro to "American Beauty" worked pretty well.)
>
>I agree that voice-overs in films are usually a sign of desperation on the
>part of the filmmakers, although there are exceptions to the rule.  FIGHT
>CLUB
>utilized a voiceover quite well.  I think the best use of the technique was
>in
>THE OPPOSITE OF SEX, which employs a sort of "anti-voiceover."
>
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- ------------------------------------------------------------
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not
so sure about the first one."
                    --Albert Einstein

"I don't kill flies but I like to mess with their minds. I hold them above
globes. They freak out and yell, 'Whoa, I'm way too high!'"
              --Bruce Baum

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Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 19:11:46 -0700
From: Dexter Sy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] Documentaries

Hi... I'm new to this lsit :D

Dx

Chris Parry wrote:

> > > If I choose to mistreat homosexuals, they have no right to complain.
>
> Wake up, sparky. The world has hit the year 2000. Those still
> entrenched in the mindset of the 1950's, like yourself, are well
> outnumbered and getting smaller fast.
> Acutally, this post reminds me of the queer-hating dad in American
> Beauty.. do I sense some repressed anger in you, dear?
>
> OZ




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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:21:59 -0700
From: Chris Parry <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] RE: Documentaries

"(Paul D Richardson)" wrote:
>
> > Any suggestions for these types of films?
>
> Anything by Errol Morris is usually a good bet.

I'm not a fan of Errol actually. I think he fails to get to the
point of his topic far too often, though he does choose intriguing
topics. Mr Death was an incredibly interesting topic, but really
failed to ask the big questions, leaving me disappointed.

> ROGER AND ME is excellent and funny (although not for the squeamish).

One of the funniest docos I've seen.

> HEARTS OF DARKNESS (excellent documentary about the making of APOCALYPSE NOW)

Now THIS one will leave you squeamish. Watching Marty Sheen mess
himself up in a coke frenzy was incredible.

> HOOP DREAMS

Anyon who hasn't seen this one should. As good a documentary as I've
seen.

> BEYOND THE MAT (I think this is the title -- recent wrestling documentary...I
> haven't seen it yet, but it's supposed to be quite good)

Saw this a few weeks back and it is amazing stuff, even for
non-wrestling fans. The director got so far behind the scenes and
revealed so much that it really left me feeling elated and depressed
afterwards. Five star stuff. And if you go see this one, do yourself
a favour and take in a rental of Hitman Hart: Wrestling With
Shadows. Another behind the scenes expose on the life behind the
glitz, not quite as nasty as Beyond The Mat, but much more human and
with an ending that'll have you spitting.

> Of course, there are many more...those are just a few from the top of my head.

I'd add to these:

The Other Hollywood - doco on the US Porn industry that is a real
eye opener, another doco that not only informed me but left me with
different opinions about the topic than I had when I went in.
Amazing.

Kurt And Courtney - hysterical, if meandering doco on the life and
death of Nirvana's Kurt Cobain and his wife's involvement in same.
Some absolutely bizarre characters from Kurt's life and the almost
accidentally comedic involvement by the director of the film makes
for some seriously amusing watching.

The Filth And The Fury - was never a fan of the Sex Pistols until I
saw this flick. When Johnny Rotten won a court case over his
ex-manager Malcolm McLaren, he suddenly found himself in possession
of archival footage of the band's early years and recruited the
director of The Great Rock And Roll Swindle, Julien Temple, to put
together the truth behind the band's life. It's by no means a 'fans
only' film, if anything the people who couldn't cop the Pistols will
get more out of this than anyone else. But it really does give a
great insight into what punk really was before it got hijacked by
yobs, the cynicism of the corporate music world and the bias shown
by many members of the press. Absolutely must-watch stuff.

Full Tilt Boogie - A behind the scenes doco on the making of From
Dusk Til Dawn, not life-changing, but if you're interested in how a
film is made and the characters behind Tarantino, Rodriguez, Clooney
etc, this is some pretty funny stuff.

Buena Vista Social Club - An experience best discovered yourself.
The music, the music, the music.

Add to these Crumb (amazing guy), Year Of the Horse (Jarmusch's doco
on Neil Young), American Movie (the bizarro world of an indie film
crashing and burning, hysterical), Hands On A Hardbody (bizarro),
Baraka (breathtakingly life-changingly, beautiful), Koyaanisqatsi
(in the same vein as Baraka), Gimme Shelter (old Rolling Stones doco
that is tough to find but worth it) and Trekkies, and you have some
of the most original, insightful, astounding work ever seen on film.

And not one damn pokemon to be seen.

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:30:32 -0700
From: Chris Parry <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] RE: I don't wanna sound elitist

: wrote:
>
> while i suppose i'd have to say i thought "pi" was amusing,
> it has this certain arrogance about it that leads me
> to feel like it's trying to seem substantial.

I thought it certainly had an arroagnce about it, but that arrogance
wasn't "let's be substantial" it was more "keep your rules of
cinema, we're doing it how we wanna". And it seems ot have paid off,
as the director, Darren Aronofsky, is going to be helming the next
Batman film. Look out for our the bat to get batty.

> "the virgin suicides" was pointless.  one of very few movies i've seen
> after which i was absolutely unaffected one way or the other - i could not
> come up with anything to say about it one way or the other.
> uninteresting story, uninteresting direction,
> uninteresting acting, uninteresting dialogue = pointless.

Wow, I couldn't disagree more. My only problem with it was the
flash-forward scenes to Trip Fontaine in latter life. The rest of it
was purposefully slow, teasingly meandering and ultimately with a
very strong point. James Woods was self-deprecatingly incredible and
the music stuck with me for days. I too denounced all things Coppola
after Sofia afflicted the Godfather flick (and the fact that Nic
Cage is actually Nic Coppola, nepotism run riot), but I have to give
her props for this one. She's obviously learned a few tricks from
her husband (Spike Jonze) and I found Virgin Suicides to be a fine
line between surreal and all too real. To me it was what Dazed And
Confused should have been, but wasn't.

OZ

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 21:51:59 -0500
From: "ROBOTICK" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] Documentaries

OT: (personal beliefs)

s
p
o
i
l
a
g
e


Notice the word "if".  I don't mean to call you two paranoid or overly
defensive, I have to point out that you were both ready and quick with your
response to my post.  Please don't think of me as a hateful person.  I
believe in treating everyone with love and acceptance regardless of what
choices they've made or who they've murdered.  However, I also believe in
responsibility and morality in an age when, like you said, they are a
rarity, and are even ridiculed!  How dare I mention the word "morality".
Don't assume that I am some religious nut, because I am definitely not.
Though I keep and open mind at all times, I haven't allowed myself to accept
the opinions or beliefs of anyone that has tried to force them on me.  Yes,
that includes my friends, my parents, my teachers, and , unlike you two, who
seem to be rather proud of it, the world.  Please, don't have a scarcity
mentality, even if you are swimming against the flow of the unsung majority
that I am speaking for.  We're not going to try to condemn you or change the
way you believe.  So, as I said before, don't bother trying to silence us,
for we are unsung.

P.S.  As for my supposed "1950's mentality", I am fifteen years old.  My
parents weren't even alive then.  No one has told me how to believe but the
world, whose beliefs you have founded yours on.

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Parry" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: [MV] Documentaries


> > If I choose to mistreat homosexuals, they have no right to complain.

Wake up, sparky. The world has hit the year 2000. Those still
entrenched in the mindset of the 1950's, like yourself, are well
outnumbered and getting smaller fast.
Acutally, this post reminds me of the queer-hating dad in American
Beauty.. do I sense some repressed anger in you, dear?

OZ

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 00:01:39 -0400
From: Mel Eperthener <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] Documentaries

At 08.20 PM 18/07/2000 -0500, ROBOTICK wrote:
>OT: Remember that one is born with large feet or black skin, but
>homosexuality is a choice.  Discriminating against an individual's choice,
>right or wrong, is fair.  People who choose to murder children should not
>complain about not being hired by the daycare center because of that choice.
>If I choose to mistreat homosexuals, they have no right to complain.

Mein Herr,

It's not bad enough that we had to sit thru a defence of Pokemon, now we
have to sit thru the defence of Herr Buchanan??

Please, let's not even taint this mailing list with such right wing bullshit.

Not even going to tell you how wrong you are.  Not even going to call up
study after study that proves it.  Not even going to mention that I deal
with gays and suspected gays on a daily basis, and have NEVER had any
trouble with them.

Hell, I'm not even going to point out that a child murderer is more likely
to be a straight, right-wing nut, with very repressed sexual feelings, ie,
the type of person that would write such drivel as the original poster, and
almost NEVER a homosexual.

Or, in words you can understand:  Seig Heil!

Regards,

- --Mel


- --Mel Eperthener
president, Gowanna Multi-media Pty

Please support the endeavour
of a friend and fellow Australian.

Political Corrections by Michael Jaymes Cassidy
http://www.angelfire.com/ma/politicalmusings

______________________________________________
Those of you who think that you know everything
are particularly annoying to those of us who do.
   --John Barrymore
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ---


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 21:35:32 -0700
From: Dexter Sy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] Documentaries

>

Interesting discussion.   Very interesting.

DX

>
>
> Mein Herr,
>
> It's not bad enough that we had to sit thru a defence of Pokemon, now we
> have to sit thru the defence of Herr Buchanan??
>
> Please, let's not even taint this mailing list with such right wing bullshit.
>
> Not even going to tell you how wrong you are.  Not even going to call up
> study after study that proves it.  Not even going to mention that I deal
> with gays and suspected gays on a daily basis, and have NEVER had any
> trouble with them.
>
> Hell, I'm not even going to point out that a child murderer is more likely
> to be a straight, right-wing nut, with very repressed sexual feelings, ie,
> the type of person that would write such drivel as the original poster, and
> almost NEVER a homosexual.
>
> Or, in words you can understand:  Seig Heil!
>
> Regards,


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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 02:26:10 -0400
From: Mel Eperthener <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] RE: I don't wanna sound elitist

At 12.30 PM 19/07/2000 -0700, Chris Parry wrote:
>: wrote:
>>
>> while i suppose i'd have to say i thought "pi" was amusing,
>> it has this certain arrogance about it that leads me
>> to feel like it's trying to seem substantial.
>
>I thought it certainly had an arroagnce about it, but that arrogance
>wasn't "let's be substantial" it was more "keep your rules of
>cinema, we're doing it how we wanna".

Actually, sounds like the "dogma" that the Danes were following for that
movie about the family reunion.  (Hey, it took me an hour to even come up
with the process being called "dogma".  I'll get the name of the movie
tomorrow, if no one beats me to it.)

Regards,

- --Mel




- --Mel Eperthener
president, Gowanna Multi-media Pty     http://www.webz.com/gowanna
mailto:[e-mail]                  mailto:[e-mail]

419 Butler Street
PO Box 95184
Pittsburgh, PA 15223-0184
[phone]                                    [phone]
1-888-45-GOWANNA -- TOLL FREE     (1-888-454-6926)
____________________________________________
"Wow! So that is what all that extra space on the movie screen is
 for!" reaction to  "Gladiator"
______________________________________________


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 15:37:16 -0600
From: "geeg23 <[e-mail]>" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] RE: I don't wanna sound elitist

Not just from "Festen" (the celebration).  Dogma 95 rules were also used in
the filming of Lars Von Triers "The idiots" as well as the film "Mifune".

Gerry T.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Mel Eperthener <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: 19 July 2000 07:26
Subject: Re: [MV] RE: I don't wanna sound elitist


> At 12.30 PM 19/07/2000 -0700, Chris Parry wrote:
> >: wrote:
> >>
> >> while i suppose i'd have to say i thought "pi" was amusing,
> >> it has this certain arrogance about it that leads me
> >> to feel like it's trying to seem substantial.
> >
> >I thought it certainly had an arroagnce about it, but that arrogance
> >wasn't "let's be substantial" it was more "keep your rules of
> >cinema, we're doing it how we wanna".
>
> Actually, sounds like the "dogma" that the Danes were following for that
> movie about the family reunion.  (Hey, it took me an hour to even come up
> with the process being called "dogma".  I'll get the name of the movie
> tomorrow, if no one beats me to it.)
>
> Regards,
>
> --Mel
>
>
>
>
> --Mel Eperthener
> president, Gowanna Multi-media Pty     http://www.webz.com/gowanna
> mailto:[e-mail]
mailto:[e-mail]
>
> 419 Butler Street
> PO Box 95184
> Pittsburgh, PA 15223-0184
> [phone]                                    [phone]
> 1-888-45-GOWANNA -- TOLL FREE     (1-888-454-6926)
> ____________________________________________
> "Wow! So that is what all that extra space on the movie screen is
>  for!" reaction to  "Gladiator"


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 10:38:02 -0700
From: Chris Parry <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] RE: I don't wanna sound elitist

Harmony Korine's last movie (the name of which escapes me, but it
starred Ewan Bremner and Chloe Sevigny) was also filmed under Dogma
rules, but he hasn't had any luck getting the film Dogma accredited
yet. For the uninitiated, Dogma rules state that a film must have:

* No sets
* No props that weren't found on the location naturally
* No unnatural lighting
* No effects
* No scripted dialogue
* No dollies or tripods

The reason behind this is that there was a time when Von Trier was
criticised in his homeland for being too reliant on cinema tricks
and editing, so he decided to give his critics the finger and
created a new minimalist film movement. It makes for a nice change
to see films where story and performance is really all there is, but
it is a little gimmicky and, when the hand-held camera has been
gunning for an hour, a little hard to watch. But if it gets people
to start making films that don't rely on formula and effects, I'm
all for it.

OZ

"geeg23 " wrote:
>
> Not just from "Festen" (the celebration).  Dogma 95 rules were also used in
> the filming of Lars Von Triers "The idiots" as well as the film "Mifune".
>
> Gerry T.

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 10:46:50 -0700
From: Chris Parry <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] Documentaries

ROBOTICK wrote:
>
> P.S.  As for my supposed "1950's mentality", I am fifteen years old.  My
> parents weren't even alive then.  No one has told me how to believe but the
> world, whose beliefs you have founded yours on.

The fact you are fifteen speaks volumes. Maybe when you grow up
you'll understand that where a person puts their bits doesn't effect
you in any way shape or form, nor make them evil, nor good. If I
were you I'd be more worried about myself than what others do in the
privacy of their own homes. Quit suppressing rage, go get some help.

OZ

> > > If I choose to mistreat homosexuals, they have no right to complain.
>
> Wake up, sparky. The world has hit the year 2000. Those still
> entrenched in the mindset of the 1950's, like yourself, are well
> outnumbered and getting smaller fast.
> Acutally, this post reminds me of the queer-hating dad in American
> Beauty.. do I sense some repressed anger in you, dear?
>
> OZ

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 01:11:55 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [MV] Documentaries

In a message dated 07/19/2000 5:35:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< The fact you are fifteen speaks volumes. Maybe when you grow up
 you'll understand that where a person puts their bits doesn't effect
 you in any way shape or form, nor make them evil, nor good. If I
 were you I'd be more worried about myself than what others do in the
 privacy of their own homes. Quit suppressing rage, go get some help.

 OZ >>

I agree, and ROBOTICK, for a person that generally acts more mature than I
am, the fact that you think this way is rather pathetic.  I know of some
openly gay people at my high school, and there's nothing wrong with them.
How about YOU try growing up?
- -Eric-

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 23:35:08 -0700
From: Dexter Sy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] Documentaries

>
>
> I agree, and ROBOTICK, for a person that generally acts more mature than I
> am, the fact that you think this way is rather pathetic.  I know of some
> openly gay people at my high school, and there's nothing wrong with them.
> How about YOU try growing up?
> -Eric-

I think he said homosexuality is a choice and not a born trait. He wasn't
saying anything about homesexulality being wrong.  I personally disagree with
the analysis that homosexuality is a choice , but  the fact remains that
science has yet to prove that  being gay is a born trait.  I know there are
plenty of people, including my friends, who will say they've always been gay,
but then again, there are also people who will tell you with equal conviction
that they've seen and have been abducted by UFOs*  (see footnote)

I do not think it is fair to flame someone  just because their opinions aren't
politically correct.  I hate Buchanan as much as most of you guys do, but
people do have a right to express their opinions.   An english teacher once
told me that it is very easy to be self-righteous and say that "you stand for
free speech, but it means nothing until you come face to face with someone who
advocates something you'd spend a lifetime fighting against" and that is at
the very core of free speech.  Free speech is too often dismissed as a
technicality in today's world but that kind of thinking goes to show that mob
rule can be a dangerous thing.  I believe it was Jefferson or one of the
American revolutionaries who warned that the rule of the majority can be as
tyrannical and unjust as the rule of a single King, hence there are checks and
balances in place in the American system to make sure minorities are heard.
Whether it works or not is the topic of another debate, but the idea remains
that tyranny is not to be accepted in any form, whether it is ordered by a
single person or preached by a million.

While the idea that homosexuality is a free choice  may be unpopular in a lot
of us ubran and suburbanites, that doesn't mean Robotick can be hanged,
branded and put out to dry.

My 2 cents,

Dex

_______________________

* Now... before someone FLAMES ME for dismissing homosexuality on the grounds
thatI compared it to the UFO phenomenon, let me state beforehand that it is
not my intention.  But the two things do have things in common.  First of all,
they lack scientific proof  but at the same time, there are also numerous
credible personal accounts that will say otherwise.



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 09:07:56 +0100
From: MARK <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: [MV] RE: I don't wanna sound elitist

I could be being pedantic here, but I think it's called "DOGME"

MARK

> -----Original Message-----
> From:    Mel Eperthener [SMTP:[e-mail]]
> Sent:    19 July 2000 07:26
> To:    [e-mail]
> Subject:    Re: [MV] RE: I don't wanna sound elitist
>
> At 12.30 PM 19/07/2000 -0700, Chris Parry wrote:
> >: wrote:
> >>
> >> while i suppose i'd have to say i thought "pi" was amusing,
> >> it has this certain arrogance about it that leads me
> >> to feel like it's trying to seem substantial.
> >
> >I thought it certainly had an arroagnce about it, but that arrogance
> >wasn't "let's be substantial" it was more "keep your rules of
> >cinema, we're doing it how we wanna".
>
> Actually, sounds like the "dogma" that the Danes were following for
> that
> movie about the family reunion.  (Hey, it took me an hour to even come
> up
> with the process being called "dogma".  I'll get the name of the movie
> tomorrow, if no one beats me to it.)
>
> Regards,
>
> --Mel
>
>
>
>
> --Mel Eperthener
> president, Gowanna Multi-media Pty     http://www.webz.com/gowanna
>
> mailto:[e-mail]
> mailto:[e-mail]
>
> 419 Butler Street
> PO Box 95184
> Pittsburgh, PA 15223-0184
> [phone]                                    [phone]
> 1-888-45-GOWANNA -- TOLL FREE     (1-888-454-6926)
> ____________________________________________
> "Wow! So that is what all that extra space on the movie screen is
>  for!" reaction to  "Gladiator"
> ______________________________________________
>
>
> [ To leave the movies mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ]
> [ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 20:23:07 -0700
From: Chris Parry <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] RE: I don't wanna sound elitist

If you really want to be pedantic, it's Dogme '95. But I don't wanna
sound elitist.
Bwaha.

OZ

MARK wrote:
>
> I could be being pedantic here, but I think it's called "DOGME"
>
> MARK
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mel Eperthener [SMTP:[e-mail]]
> > Sent: 19 July 2000 07:26
> > To:   [e-mail]
> > Subject:      Re: [MV] RE: I don't wanna sound elitist
> >
> > At 12.30 PM 19/07/2000 -0700, Chris Parry wrote:
> > >: wrote:
> > >>
> > >> while i suppose i'd have to say i thought "pi" was amusing,
> > >> it has this certain arrogance about it that leads me
> > >> to feel like it's trying to seem substantial.
> > >
> > >I thought it certainly had an arroagnce about it, but that arrogance
> > >wasn't "let's be substantial" it was more "keep your rules of
> > >cinema, we're doing it how we wanna".
> >
> > Actually, sounds like the "dogma" that the Danes were following for
> > that
> > movie about the family reunion.  (Hey, it took me an hour to even come
> > up
> > with the process being called "dogma".  I'll get the name of the movie
> > tomorrow, if no one beats me to it.)
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > --Mel
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --Mel Eperthener
> > president, Gowanna Multi-media Pty     http://www.webz.com/gowanna
> >
> > mailto:[e-mail]
> > mailto:[e-mail]
> >
> > 419 Butler Street
> > PO Box 95184
> > Pittsburgh, PA 15223-0184
> > [phone]                                    [phone]
> > 1-888-45-GOWANNA -- TOLL FREE     (1-888-454-6926)
> > ____________________________________________
> > "Wow! So that is what all that extra space on the movie screen is
> >  for!" reaction to  "Gladiator"
> > ______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > [ To leave the movies mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ]
> > [ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]
>
> [ To leave the movies mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ]
> [ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]

- --
Kind regards,
Chris Parry

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 11:32:35 +0100
From: MARK <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: [MV] RE: I don't wanna sound elitist

Fiddlesticks!  Foiled again!!

> -----Original Message-----
> From:    Chris Parry [SMTP:[e-mail]]
> Sent:    21 July 2000 04:23
> To:    [e-mail]
> Subject:    Re: [MV] RE: I don't wanna sound elitist
>
> If you really want to be pedantic, it's Dogme '95. But I don't wanna
> sound elitist.
> Bwaha.
>
> OZ
>
> MARK wrote:
> >
> > I could be being pedantic here, but I think it's called "DOGME"
> >
> > MARK
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Mel Eperthener [SMTP:[e-mail]]
> > > Sent: 19 July 2000 07:26
> > > To:   [e-mail]
> > > Subject:      Re: [MV] RE: I don't wanna sound elitist
> > >
> > > At 12.30 PM 19/07/2000 -0700, Chris Parry wrote:
> > > >: wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> while i suppose i'd have to say i thought "pi" was amusing,
> > > >> it has this certain arrogance about it that leads me
> > > >> to feel like it's trying to seem substantial.
> > > >
> > > >I thought it certainly had an arroagnce about it, but that
> arrogance
> > > >wasn't "let's be substantial" it was more "keep your rules of
> > > >cinema, we're doing it how we wanna".
> > >
> > > Actually, sounds like the "dogma" that the Danes were following
> for
> > > that
> > > movie about the family reunion.  (Hey, it took me an hour to even
> come
> > > up
> > > with the process being called "dogma".  I'll get the name of the
> movie
> > > tomorrow, if no one beats me to it.)
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > --Mel
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --Mel Eperthener
> > > president, Gowanna Multi-media Pty     http://www.webz.com/gowanna
> > >
> > > mailto:[e-mail]
> > > mailto:[e-mail]
> > >
> > > 419 Butler Street
> > > PO Box 95184
> > > Pittsburgh, PA 15223-0184
> > > [phone]                                    [phone]
> > > 1-888-45-GOWANNA -- TOLL FREE     (1-888-454-6926)
> > > ____________________________________________
> > > "Wow! So that is what all that extra space on the movie screen is
> > >  for!" reaction to  "Gladiator"
> > > ______________________________________________
> > >
> > >
> > > [ To leave the movies mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe
> ]
> > > [ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]
> ]
> >
> > [ To leave the movies mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ]
> > [ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]
>
> --
> Kind regards,
> Chris Parry
>
> http://www.efilmcritic.com
> http://www.mymovies.com.au
> http://www.tribe.com
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>
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 12:03:43 +0100
From: MARK <[e-mail]>
Subject: [MV] Patriot - lite

    OK, so I went to see The Patriot on Tuesday, ( hey, it only
opened in the UK on Friday).  Am I the only one that thinks the story
would have been better suited to a mini-series.  There was practically
no plot, and it gave me no insight whatsoever into the War of
Independence. I thought the story was totally transferrable, you could
have made it a western, a WWII movie or my fave - a Sci-Fi movie, I
think if they would have used this story for Battlefield Earth, with
just a few minor tweaks it could have worked.

    I expect my 3 hour movies to be epic, and The Patriot just
doesn't deliver.  It was a twee film expanded to a great length to make
it look like it was way more than the sum of its parts.  I was
vindicated when we left the film, we took my girlfriends parents with
us, and her mother thought it was "brilliant" - THIS IS FROM A WOMAN WHO
LOVED "Beverly Hilbillies - The Movie", and has watched Titanic and
Dirty Dancing more times than I care to mention.

    If I was to mark it out of 10, I'd give it 5!!!

    MARK

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