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movies-digest         Thursday, July 20 2000         Volume 02 : Number 276



Re: [MV] Patriot - lite
[MV] The last yellow
RE: [MV] Patriot - lite
RE: [MV] The last yellow
Re: [MV] Patriot - lite
Re: [MV] Patriot - lite
RE: [MV] Patriot - lite (some spoilers)
Re: [MV] Patriot - lite (some spoilers)
RE: [MV] Patriot - lite
Re: [MV] Patriot - lite
Re: [MV] Godzilla 2000
[MV] Patriot - the british
Re: [MV] Patriot - lite
Re: [MV] Godzilla 2000
Re: [MV] Patriot - lite
[MV] Patriot Godzilla and Ryan
Re: [MV] Patriot - lite
Re: [MV] Patriot - lite
Re: [MV] Patriot - the british (spoilers)
Re: [MV] Patriot Godzilla and Ryan
Re: [MV] Patriot - the british (spoilers)
Re: [MV] Patriot Godzilla and Ryan
Re: [MV] Patriot Godzilla and Ryan
[MV] Empire of the Sun (some spoilers)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 21:12:29 -0700
From: Chris Parry <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] Patriot - lite

I liked The Patriot.. at first. But like every Emmerich/Devlin film,
once you get past the money shots out of the trailer, you're left
with a continual downward incline of interest and importance.
Remember how once the Oval Office was blown up in ID4 there was
little left to hang around for? Remember how once you saw the big
lizard in Godzilla, it all went stupid?

That's The Patriot. All thrills and balls to the wall action, then
it starts to run out of ideas.

And I have to say, what was with Joely Richardson's character? I
haven't seen a less interesting female character ever. She just
stood there and... blinked.

But I guess we should remember that the writer was the same guy who
wrote Saving Private Ryan's crap bits. Spielberg made that big
opening 20 minutes that got everyone applauding, then this guy wrote
the rest which had me snoring. So really, with Godzilla's director
and this writer, it was never going to be as good as it could have
been. ...Should have been.

OZ

MARK wrote:
>
>         OK, so I went to see The Patriot on Tuesday, ( hey, it only
> opened in the UK on Friday).  Am I the only one that thinks the story
> would have been better suited to a mini-series.  There was practically
> no plot, and it gave me no insight whatsoever into the War of
> Independence. I thought the story was totally transferrable, you could
> have made it a western, a WWII movie or my fave - a Sci-Fi movie, I
> think if they would have used this story for Battlefield Earth, with
> just a few minor tweaks it could have worked.
>
>         I expect my 3 hour movies to be epic, and The Patriot just
> doesn't deliver.  It was a twee film expanded to a great length to make
> it look like it was way more than the sum of its parts.  I was
> vindicated when we left the film, we took my girlfriends parents with
> us, and her mother thought it was "brilliant" - THIS IS FROM A WOMAN WHO
> LOVED "Beverly Hilbillies - The Movie", and has watched Titanic and
> Dirty Dancing more times than I care to mention.
>
>         If I was to mark it out of 10, I'd give it 5!!!
>
>         MARK
>
> [ To leave the movies mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ]
> [ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]

- --
Kind regards,
Chris Parry

http://www.efilmcritic.com
http://www.mymovies.com.au
http://www.tribe.com
http://www.if.com.au
http://ifmagazine.ifctv.com
http://www.sain.com.au

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[ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 12:12:55 +0100
From: "geeg23" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [MV] The last yellow

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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This is directed towards all us UK residents on the list (I don't think =
it will make it over to the U.S........mores the pity).  Anybody seen =
this?  It was slated by the critics and yet I though it was one of the =
best Brit films since "Orphans".  Mark Addy is excellent in this black =
comedy about a nobody who claims he was in the SAS.
A damn sight better than the likes of "Maybe baby".

Gerry T.
When an expression of art collides with the brain of a layman-
And produces an empty sound--
It is yet a question as to which of the two are at fault.

                                                             Jean =
Cocteau

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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>This is directed towards all us UK residents on the list (I don't =
think it=20
will make it over to the U.S........mores the pity).  Anybody seen=20
this?  It was slated by the critics and yet I though it was one of =
the best=20
Brit films since "Orphans".  Mark Addy is excellent in this black =
comedy=20
about a nobody who claims he was in the SAS.</DIV>
<DIV>A damn sight better than the likes of "Maybe baby".</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Gerry T.</DIV>
<DIV>When an expression of art collides with the brain of a =
layman-<BR>And=20
produces an empty sound--<BR>It is yet a question as to which of the two =
are at=20
fault.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>           &n=
bsp;           &nb=
sp;           &nbs=
p;            =
;            =
=20
Jean Cocteau</DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BFF243.D5A8BFC0--


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 12:32:45 +0100
From: MARK <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: [MV] Patriot - lite

Ahh yes, Robert Rodat, I forgot to mention that point.  This guy writes
long films, but has no Idea whatsoever on story, he seems to think that
a series of events will make a movie - git!!

MARK

> -----Original Message-----
> From:    Chris Parry [SMTP:[e-mail]]
> Sent:    21 July 2000 05:12
> To:    [e-mail]
> Subject:    Re: [MV] Patriot - lite
>
> I liked The Patriot.. at first. But like every Emmerich/Devlin film,
> once you get past the money shots out of the trailer, you're left
> with a continual downward incline of interest and importance.
> Remember how once the Oval Office was blown up in ID4 there was
> little left to hang around for? Remember how once you saw the big
> lizard in Godzilla, it all went stupid?
>
> That's The Patriot. All thrills and balls to the wall action, then
> it starts to run out of ideas.
>
> And I have to say, what was with Joely Richardson's character? I
> haven't seen a less interesting female character ever. She just
> stood there and... blinked.
>
> But I guess we should remember that the writer was the same guy who
> wrote Saving Private Ryan's crap bits. Spielberg made that big
> opening 20 minutes that got everyone applauding, then this guy wrote
> the rest which had me snoring. So really, with Godzilla's director
> and this writer, it was never going to be as good as it could have
> been. ...Should have been.
>
> OZ
>
> MARK wrote:
> >
> >         OK, so I went to see The Patriot on Tuesday, ( hey, it only
> > opened in the UK on Friday).  Am I the only one that thinks the
> story
> > would have been better suited to a mini-series.  There was
> practically
> > no plot, and it gave me no insight whatsoever into the War of
> > Independence. I thought the story was totally transferrable, you
> could
> > have made it a western, a WWII movie or my fave - a Sci-Fi movie, I
> > think if they would have used this story for Battlefield Earth, with
> > just a few minor tweaks it could have worked.
> >
> >         I expect my 3 hour movies to be epic, and The Patriot just
> > doesn't deliver.  It was a twee film expanded to a great length to
> make
> > it look like it was way more than the sum of its parts.  I was
> > vindicated when we left the film, we took my girlfriends parents
> with
> > us, and her mother thought it was "brilliant" - THIS IS FROM A WOMAN
> WHO
> > LOVED "Beverly Hilbillies - The Movie", and has watched Titanic and
> > Dirty Dancing more times than I care to mention.
> >
> >         If I was to mark it out of 10, I'd give it 5!!!
> >
> >         MARK
> >
> > [ To leave the movies mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ]
> > [ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]
>
> --
> Kind regards,
> Chris Parry
>
> http://www.efilmcritic.com
> http://www.mymovies.com.au
> http://www.tribe.com
> http://www.if.com.au
> http://ifmagazine.ifctv.com
> http://www.sain.com.au
>
> [ To leave the movies mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ]
> [ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]

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[ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 13:46:19 +0100
From: MARK <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: [MV] The last yellow

Not seen it, but I know you can buy it on DVD for =A319.99

MARK

> -----Original Message-----
> From:    geeg23 [SMTP:[e-mail]]
> Sent:    20 July 2000 12:13
> To:    [e-mail]
> Subject:    [MV] The last yellow
>=20
> This is directed towards all us UK residents on the list (I don't
> think it will make it over to the U.S........mores the pity).=A0 =
Anybody
> seen this?=A0 It was slated by the critics and yet I though it was =
one
> of the best Brit films since "Orphans".=A0 Mark Addy is excellent in
> this black comedy about a nobody who claims he was in the SAS.
> A damn sight better than the likes of "Maybe baby".
> =A0
> Gerry T.
> When an expression of art collides with the brain of a layman-
> And produces an empty sound--
> It is yet a question as to which of the two are at fault.
> =A0
> =
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Jean
> Cocteau

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[ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 11:19:28 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [MV] Patriot - lite

In a message dated 07/20/2000 3:54:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<<  I expect my 3 hour movies to be epic, and The Patriot just
 doesn't deliver.  It was a twee film expanded to a great length to make
 it look like it was way more than the sum of its parts.  I was
 vindicated when we left the film, we took my girlfriends parents with
 us, and her mother thought it was "brilliant" - THIS IS FROM A WOMAN WHO
 LOVED "Beverly Hilbillies - The Movie", and has watched Titanic and
 Dirty Dancing more times than I care to mention.

    If I was to mark it out of 10, I'd give it 5!!!

    MARK >>

Personally, I thought The Patriot was a terrific film.  I doubt any of the
Redcoats were as villainous as Tavington, but he created a great tension in
the film.  The house searching scene was probably the most tense.  This air
about him made him a very good villain.  As for the plot, I thought it was
mostly pretty predictable, but it really got the adrenaline going.  I'd give
it a 10, but would go as low as an 8.
- -Eric-

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[ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 11:31:44 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [MV] Patriot - lite

In a message dated 07/20/2000 4:01:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< But I guess we should remember that the writer was the same guy who
 wrote Saving Private Ryan's crap bits. Spielberg made that big
 opening 20 minutes that got everyone applauding, then this guy wrote
 the rest which had me snoring. So really, with Godzilla's director
 and this writer, it was never going to be as good as it could have
 been. ...Should have been. >>

I've never seen Godzilla (I don't want to, and I won't see Godzilla 2000),
but I have seen Saving Private Ryan.  Saving Private Ryan was not as good as
The Patriot (IMO), but it was a good movie nonetheless.  The lines managed to
be anti-war at the time of fighting a war.  Tom Hanks, while his men question
saving one man at the risk of all of them, says that if doing this is the one
good deed he can do in the war that let's him see his wife again, it's worth
it.  I don't know about you guys, but it worked for me.
- -Eric-

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[ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 16:55:59 +0100
From: MARK <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: [MV] Patriot - lite (some spoilers)

My dear boy, it seems we will always be at loggerheads. How can you
state that Patriot was a terrific film, and then say that the plot was
fairly predictable??  Tavington was just your run-of-the mill British
Baddie, no character depth, no reason for him being as mean as he was.
The film was very contradictory.  We were supposed to feel this immense
hatred for Tavington, but apathy for Benjamin Martin, yet in one scene
he mercilessly savages a group of Redcoats who have surrendered.  Why
did he do it, well because that's what Tavington did - therefore he was
no better or worse than Tavington.  The house searching scene was also
predictable, and has been carried out in many films - Halloween H20
springs to mind, when Jamie Lee Curtis is beneath the tables in the
school and Mikey Myers is standing above her.  That would have played
better if he would have gotten ahold of one of Mels brats. But he
didn't, and we all knew that when he looked beneath the table the kid
wouldn't be there.

The whole film was basically a second rate Last of the Mohicans (from
which I believe Robert Rodat stole most of the story - lets face it, he
aint no Fenimore-Cooper).

Joely Richardsons Character - just wallpaper/standard love interest
Tom Wilkinsons character - Flawed military fop

If the film would have followed it's train of thought, Mel would have
just gone after Tavington, but no he decided to kill umpteen Redcoat
soldiers to get to Tavington.

I felt no sympathy for Gibsons' role, it lacked emotion, meaning and
depth.

Ultimately, what should have been an insightful look at what happened
during this war, just turned into the standard "you killed my
brother/wife/son/daughter movie", and not a very good one at that.  For
chrissakes, Van Damme makes revenge movies where he goes after the
person that killed his twin brother - and they, as bad as they are, are
a lot more entertaining and shorter than this putrid, puerile pile of
pooh!

MARK
> -----Original Message-----
> From:    [e-mail] [SMTP:[e-mail]]
> Sent:    20 July 2000 16:19
> To:    [e-mail]
> Subject:    Re: [MV] Patriot - lite
>
> In a message dated 07/20/2000 3:54:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> [e-mail] writes:
>
> <<  I expect my 3 hour movies to be epic, and The Patriot just
>  doesn't deliver.  It was a twee film expanded to a great length to
> make
>  it look like it was way more than the sum of its parts.  I was
>  vindicated when we left the film, we took my girlfriends parents with
>  us, and her mother thought it was "brilliant" - THIS IS FROM A WOMAN
> WHO
>  LOVED "Beverly Hilbillies - The Movie", and has watched Titanic and
>  Dirty Dancing more times than I care to mention.
>
>     If I was to mark it out of 10, I'd give it 5!!!
>
>     MARK >>
>
> Personally, I thought The Patriot was a terrific film.  I doubt any of
> the
> Redcoats were as villainous as Tavington, but he created a great
> tension in
> the film.  The house searching scene was probably the most tense.
> This air
> about him made him a very good villain.  As for the plot, I thought it
> was
> mostly pretty predictable, but it really got the adrenaline going.
> I'd give
> it a 10, but would go as low as an 8.
> -Eric-
>
> [ To leave the movies mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ]
> [ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]

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[ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 11:46:38 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [MV] Patriot - lite (some spoilers)

In a message dated 07/20/2000 8:41:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< My dear boy, it seems we will always be at loggerheads. How can you
 state that Patriot was a terrific film, and then say that the plot was
 fairly predictable?? >>

I guess so.  Yes, predictable plot, but it still managed to be entertaining
for me.  Entertaining is what I was looking for, and that's what I got.
- -Eric-

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 17:03:52 +0100
From: MARK <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: [MV] Patriot - lite

You DO KNOW that Godzilla 2000 is a Japanese film don't you???  It's not
made by Emerrich and Devlin

MARK

> -----Original Message-----
> From:    [e-mail] [SMTP:[e-mail]]
> Sent:    20 July 2000 16:32
> To:    [e-mail]
> Subject:    Re: [MV] Patriot - lite
>
> In a message dated 07/20/2000 4:01:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> [e-mail] writes:
>
> << But I guess we should remember that the writer was the same guy who
>  wrote Saving Private Ryan's crap bits. Spielberg made that big
>  opening 20 minutes that got everyone applauding, then this guy wrote
>  the rest which had me snoring. So really, with Godzilla's director
>  and this writer, it was never going to be as good as it could have
>  been. ...Should have been. >>
>
> I've never seen Godzilla (I don't want to, and I won't see Godzilla
> 2000),
> but I have seen Saving Private Ryan.  Saving Private Ryan was not as
> good as
> The Patriot (IMO), but it was a good movie nonetheless.  The lines
> managed to
> be anti-war at the time of fighting a war.  Tom Hanks, while his men
> question
> saving one man at the risk of all of them, says that if doing this is
> the one
> good deed he can do in the war that let's him see his wife again, it's
> worth
> it.  I don't know about you guys, but it worked for me.
> -Eric-
>
> [ To leave the movies mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ]
> [ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 11:01:12 -0700
From: Dexter Sy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] Patriot - lite

MARK wrote:

>         OK, so I went to see The Patriot on Tuesday, ( hey, it only
> opened in the UK on Friday).  Am I the only one that thinks the story
> would have been better suited to a mini-series.  There was practically
> no plot, and it gave me no insight whatsoever into the War of
> Independence. I thought the story was totally transferrable, you could
> have made it a western, a WWII movie or my fave - a Sci-Fi movie, I
> think if they would have used this story for Battlefield Earth, with
> just a few minor tweaks it could have worked.

It was directed by German maestro  and student of the Lucas school of film
Roland Emmerich, what did you expect? Insight into the meaning of life? ;-)

Really, the film is historically flawed.  The British characters are
caricatures, depicted as either a clownish and oafish figure, forever stuck
in the art of gentlemenly battle or evil beyond means, hell bent on keeping
the colonies no matter what.  The Americans on the other hand come in two
forms, quoting Roger Ebert's review they are either "Brave or Braver"   The
characters might as well be replaced with aliens and it would probably make
a nice sequel to independence day.  But for all its flaws I find the
patriotic bravado... nice.   I'm sorry if I'm stepping on people's toes here
but I'm the kind of sucker who likes this kind of stuff.

Dex


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 13:56:30 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [MV] Godzilla 2000

In a message dated 07/20/2000 8:54:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< You DO KNOW that Godzilla 2000 is a Japanese film don't you???  It's not
 made by Emerrich and Devlin

 MARK >>

Yes, I know it's Japanese (the Toho Co. Ltd. info in the trailer was enough
to tell me that), but the trailer was so crappy that it hardly looks to be
worth it.  Anyone on this list think differently?
- -Eric-

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 11:11:52 -0700
From: Dexter Sy <[e-mail]>
Subject: [MV] Patriot - the british

>
>
> Personally, I thought The Patriot was a terrific film.  I doubt any of the
> Redcoats were as villainous as Tavington, but he created a great tension in
> the film.  The house searching scene was probably the most tense.  This air
> about him made him a very good villain.  As for the plot, I thought it was
> mostly pretty predictable, but it really got the adrenaline going.  I'd give
> it a 10, but would go as low as an 8.
> -Eric-

People have dismissed the screenplay for using caricature figures as its
villian.  This is true, but not entirely true.  The British officer at the
beginning of the film who thanked Mel Gibson's character for caring for  the
British injured   was I think the sympathetic villian in the film.  Roland made
the wise choice of cutting to the speechless officer a few times as Tavington
rides in and basically overrides the officer's thanks and goes on a killing
spree.   I thought it was a nice.  But people seem to have forgotten that
character and probably for a good reason.  He was the first and last villian I
sympathized with.

Dex


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 14:04:25 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [MV] Patriot - lite

In a message dated 07/20/2000 10:54:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< The
 characters might as well be replaced with aliens and it would probably make
 a nice sequel to independence day.  But for all its flaws I find the
 patriotic bravado... nice.   I'm sorry if I'm stepping on people's toes here
 but I'm the kind of sucker who likes this kind of stuff.

 Dex >>

I do agree about the flaws, but it was entertaining.  One question, how can
this film possibly be compared to Independence Day?  That was pure crap,
among my least favorite movies of all time with stinkers like Twister, House
Arrest, and Rock-A-Doodle.  The Patriot was way above any of those.
- -Eric-

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 11:12:36 -0700
From: Dexter Sy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] Godzilla 2000

>
>
> Yes, I know it's Japanese (the Toho Co. Ltd. info in the trailer was enough
> to tell me that), but the trailer was so crappy that it hardly looks to be
> worth it.  Anyone on this list think differently?
> -Eric-

I think you're a nut  :P


Dex


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 11:23:38 -0700
From: Dexter Sy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] Patriot - lite

(refer to conversation below to know what i'm responding to)

Well, I think ID-4 is a great film.  It is certainly one of the great sci-fi
films of the 90s.  It was one of the first summer blockbuster films that jarred
me psychologically.   Sci-fi hadn't don't what ID-4 did in a long time.
Basically watching the monuments to our civilization demolished has that effect
on people, and it strikes at the core of our human existence.  It is the same
reason invading armies in the past burn entire villages and towns... basically to
demoralize the population.  It is a very real human instinct.   Now, that has
been largely forgotten since subsequent films like Deep Impact or Armageddon have
done the same.

Devlin/Emmerich are very much students of the Star Wars trilogy and the battles
have the same feel.   Waching the fighters go up against the shielded mother
ships was emotional.  It has the feeling that our best technologies failing us,
we are helpless, not even nukes can kill them.   It has the same kind of feeling
when people first saw X-Wings  flying down into that DeathStar trench to blow up
the death star.  THe feeling of fighting against increadible odds. Again, not
totally original but it is very much inherent in American cinema.  While Lucas
viewed hollywood as the Empire and hence the Death Star, I doubt Devlin/Emmerich
had the same ulterior meaning to their aliens.  They were following the formula
Lucas created.

Dex

[e-mail] wrote:

> In a message dated 07/20/2000 10:54:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> [e-mail] writes:
>
> << The
>  characters might as well be replaced with aliens and it would probably make
>  a nice sequel to independence day.  But for all its flaws I find the
>  patriotic bravado... nice.   I'm sorry if I'm stepping on people's toes here
>  but I'm the kind of sucker who likes this kind of stuff.
>
>  Dex >>
>
> I do agree about the flaws, but it was entertaining.  One question, how can
> this film possibly be compared to Independence Day?  That was pure crap,
> among my least favorite movies of all time with stinkers like Twister, House
> Arrest, and Rock-A-Doodle.  The Patriot was way above any of those.
> -Eric-
>

>
> [ To leave the movies mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ]
> [ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]

- --
Dexter S.
Tendo Box - Nintendo e-zine
Http://www.tendobox.com



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 11:37:24 -0700
From: Dexter Sy <[e-mail]>
Subject: [MV] Patriot Godzilla and Ryan

>
>
> I've never seen Godzilla (I don't want to, and I won't see Godzilla 2000),
> but I have seen Saving Private Ryan.  Saving Private Ryan was not as good as
> The Patriot (IMO), but it was a good movie nonetheless.  The lines managed to
> be anti-war at the time of fighting a war.  Tom Hanks, while his men question
> saving one man at the risk of all of them, says that if doing this is the one
> good deed he can do in the war that let's him see his wife again, it's worth
> it.  I don't know about you guys, but it worked for me.
> -Eric-=

Godzilla is a cult classic.  Growing up in an Asian country which shall remain
unamed, I had a blast watching the original Japanese Godzilla films and their
contemporary sequels. Very cool and It certainly sparked the imagination of a 9
year old kid.  Star Wars, Ultraman (another Japanese creation), Gundam, and
Spielberg films were the  stuff I grew up with and I loved them all.

As for Saving Private Ryan, I watched that film a total of ten times, this
includes the DVD viewings. I must say by the tenth time, much of the emotion I
felt in my first viewing had gone, but I remember it vividly.  I FLINCHED  when
people were blown to bits and knives were stuck into their heart and I thought I
had a pretty thick skin for violence being an avid video game player.  Ryan had
the Spielbergian touch.  Critics who hate him (probably because that guy seems to
score victory after victory)  complain Spielberg is too sentimental, but so
what?  His early dramatic effort, Empire of the Sun is one of my all time
favourties.* (see footnote)

On another note, I would write a thesis about the misguided crusades of the
soccer moms. Videogame violence are on a different level than reality and my
experiences with Ryan proved it.  I am sure I will flinch again when I see people
getting blow up for real, just because I play violent games doesn't mean I'm
immune to violence. Total nonesense.

____________________
*If you're not aware of the film, its about an English boy lost in Shanghai when
the Japanese take over the city at the outbreak of world war 2.  It chronicles
his life in the prisoner of war camps through to the end of the war.  The movie
is based on the auto biography of the same name by J.G. Ballard who is also an
excellent cyber punk author I might add.


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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 19:49:30 +0100
From: "geeg23" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] Patriot - lite

ID 4 is atrocious.  It is a very poor excuse for a sci-fi film and lacks any
of the edge that the science fiction films of the 50's had that it so badly
tries to copy.  Emmerich is one of the worst directors around who makes
films without plots...........or to be more precise, the plots are
simplistic and filled with unlikely coincidences.  Anyone who considers ID4
good sci fi has never seen much to be a good judge of what good sci-fi is.
The only film worse than ID4 in the 90's is "Armageddon".  Dont get me
started on that!!!!!!!

Gerry T.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Dexter Sy <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: 20 July 2000 19:23
Subject: Re: [MV] Patriot - lite


> (refer to conversation below to know what i'm responding to)
>
> Well, I think ID-4 is a great film.  It is certainly one of the great
sci-fi
> films of the 90s.  It was one of the first summer blockbuster films that
jarred
> me psychologically.   Sci-fi hadn't don't what ID-4 did in a long time.
> Basically watching the monuments to our civilization demolished has that
effect
> on people, and it strikes at the core of our human existence.  It is the
same
> reason invading armies in the past burn entire villages and towns...
basically to
> demoralize the population.  It is a very real human instinct.   Now, that
has
> been largely forgotten since subsequent films like Deep Impact or
Armageddon have
> done the same.
>
> Devlin/Emmerich are very much students of the Star Wars trilogy and the
battles
> have the same feel.   Waching the fighters go up against the shielded
mother
> ships was emotional.  It has the feeling that our best technologies
failing us,
> we are helpless, not even nukes can kill them.   It has the same kind of
feeling
> when people first saw X-Wings  flying down into that DeathStar trench to
blow up
> the death star.  THe feeling of fighting against increadible odds. Again,
not
> totally original but it is very much inherent in American cinema.  While
Lucas
> viewed hollywood as the Empire and hence the Death Star, I doubt
Devlin/Emmerich
> had the same ulterior meaning to their aliens.  They were following the
formula
> Lucas created.
>
> Dex
>
> [e-mail] wrote:
>
> > In a message dated 07/20/2000 10:54:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> > [e-mail] writes:
> >
> > << The
> >  characters might as well be replaced with aliens and it would probably
make
> >  a nice sequel to independence day.  But for all its flaws I find the
> >  patriotic bravado... nice.   I'm sorry if I'm stepping on people's toes
here
> >  but I'm the kind of sucker who likes this kind of stuff.
> >
> >  Dex >>
> >
> > I do agree about the flaws, but it was entertaining.  One question, how
can
> > this film possibly be compared to Independence Day?  That was pure crap,
> > among my least favorite movies of all time with stinkers like Twister,
House
> > Arrest, and Rock-A-Doodle.  The Patriot was way above any of those.
> > -Eric-
> >
>
> >
> > [ To leave the movies mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ]
> > [ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]
>
> --
> Dexter S.
> Tendo Box - Nintendo e-zine
> Http://www.tendobox.com
>
>
>
> [ To leave the movies mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ]
> [ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]
>


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 12:09:31 -0700
From: Dexter Sy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] Patriot - lite

Hi Gerry, I will concede the point that I am not an expert in science fiction.
Heck, I am not an expert in any genre.  But I think science fiction is far too
narrow a description for the Lucasian films and their clones.  Because quite
frankly, they tend to be blockbuster serials set with hi-tech gadgetry and has
very little to do with science fiction other than their gadgets.   For me, the
classic definition of science fiction remains firmly in the  the  domain of
Asimov, Clarke and Rodenberry.  They are the authors who explore human problems
in a non threatening way by projecting them directly into the future.   The
Lucasian science-fiction can be seen as much more primitive as they often deal
with basic human emotions, and in the case of Star Wars, a case has already been
made that it is no more than the amalgamation of classical myths set a fantasy
environment.  I mean is Star Wars set in the future or in the past? Where is it
set?  With Rodenberry, Clarke and Asimov the answers are very often very
clear.   It is the future and the issues are suttle, but immediate at the same
time.  That is simply not true with the Lucasian formula.

ID4 is certainly not based on mythology, but it tackles emotions I've discussed
in previous posts (scroll down).  Very primal things, but It worked for me.

Dex

geeg23 wrote:

> ID 4 is atrocious.  It is a very poor excuse for a sci-fi film and lacks any
> of the edge that the science fiction films of the 50's had that it so badly
> tries to copy.  Emmerich is one of the worst directors around who makes
> films without plots...........or to be more precise, the plots are
> simplistic and filled with unlikely coincidences.  Anyone who considers ID4
> good sci fi has never seen much to be a good judge of what good sci-fi is.
> The only film worse than ID4 in the 90's is "Armageddon".  Dont get me
> started on that!!!!!!!
>
> Gerry T.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dexter Sy <[e-mail]>
> To: <[e-mail]>
> Sent: 20 July 2000 19:23
> Subject: Re: [MV] Patriot - lite
>
> > (refer to conversation below to know what i'm responding to)
> >
> > Well, I think ID-4 is a great film.  It is certainly one of the great
> sci-fi
> > films of the 90s.  It was one of the first summer blockbuster films that
> jarred
> > me psychologically.   Sci-fi hadn't don't what ID-4 did in a long time.
> > Basically watching the monuments to our civilization demolished has that
> effect
> > on people, and it strikes at the core of our human existence.  It is the
> same
> > reason invading armies in the past burn entire villages and towns...
> basically to
> > demoralize the population.  It is a very real human instinct.   Now, that
> has
> > been largely forgotten since subsequent films like Deep Impact or
> Armageddon have
> > done the same.
> >
> > Devlin/Emmerich are very much students of the Star Wars trilogy and the
> battles
> > have the same feel.   Waching the fighters go up against the shielded
> mother
> > ships was emotional.  It has the feeling that our best technologies
> failing us,
> > we are helpless, not even nukes can kill them.   It has the same kind of
> feeling
> > when people first saw X-Wings  flying down into that DeathStar trench to
> blow up
> > the death star.  THe feeling of fighting against increadible odds. Again,
> not
> > totally original but it is very much inherent in American cinema.  While
> Lucas
> > viewed hollywood as the Empire and hence the Death Star, I doubt
> Devlin/Emmerich
> > had the same ulterior meaning to their aliens.  They were following the
> formula
> > Lucas created.
> >
> > Dex
> >
> > [e-mail] wrote:
> >
> > > In a message dated 07/20/2000 10:54:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> > > [e-mail] writes:
> > >
> > > << The
> > >  characters might as well be replaced with aliens and it would probably
> make
> > >  a nice sequel to independence day.  But for all its flaws I find the
> > >  patriotic bravado... nice.   I'm sorry if I'm stepping on people's toes
> here
> > >  but I'm the kind of sucker who likes this kind of stuff.
> > >
> > >  Dex >>
> > >
> > > I do agree about the flaws, but it was entertaining.  One question, how
> can
> > > this film possibly be compared to Independence Day?  That was pure crap,
> > > among my least favorite movies of all time with stinkers like Twister,
> House
> > > Arrest, and Rock-A-Doodle.  The Patriot was way above any of those.
> > > -Eric-
> > >
> >
> > >
> > > [ To leave the movies mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ]
> > > [ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]
> >
> > --
> > Dexter S.
> > Tendo Box - Nintendo e-zine
> > Http://www.tendobox.com
> >
> >
> >
> > [ To leave the movies mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ]
> > [ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]
> >
>
> [ To leave the movies mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ]
> [ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]

- --
Dexter S.
Tendo Box - Nintendo e-zine
Http://www.tendobox.com



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 17:12:03 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [MV] Patriot - the british (spoilers)

In a message dated 07/20/2000 11:05:04 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< I thought it was a nice.  But people seem to have forgotten that
 character and probably for a good reason.  He was the first and last villian
I
 sympathized with. >>

That's the one that I would say was the most accurate character, since he was
characterized as an officer doing his job in a war.  Tavington was a bit too
villainous, but, heck, he did a good job as a dislikeable character, whom I
wanted to see killed at the end.  Plus, it was an entertaining 3 hours, and
definitely not wasted.
- -Eric-

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 17:21:05 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [MV] Patriot Godzilla and Ryan

In a message dated 07/20/2000 11:31:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< On another note, I would write a thesis about the misguided crusades of the
 soccer moms. Videogame violence are on a different level than reality and my
 experiences with Ryan proved it.  I am sure I will flinch again when I see
people
 getting blow up for real, just because I play violent games doesn't mean I'm
 immune to violence. Total nonsense >>

You know, I never thought of that.  Videogame violence does not desensitize
us and turn us into cold blooded killers.  Ryan shows how difficult it is to
turn mankind against itself, and I think it's a great film, even if I don't
watch it ten times.
- -Eric-

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 15:30:30 -0700
From: Dexter Sy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] Patriot - the british (spoilers)

(scroll down for conversation)

Ditto.

Dex

[e-mail] wrote:

> In a message dated 07/20/2000 11:05:04 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> [e-mail] writes:
>
> << I thought it was a nice.  But people seem to have forgotten that
>  character and probably for a good reason.  He was the first and last villian
> I
>  sympathized with. >>
>
> That's the one that I would say was the most accurate character, since he was
> characterized as an officer doing his job in a war.  Tavington was a bit too
> villainous, but, heck, he did a good job as a dislikeable character, whom I
> wanted to see killed at the end.  Plus, it was an entertaining 3 hours, and
> definitely not wasted.
> -Eric-
>
> [ To leave the movies mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ]
> [ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]

- --
Dexter S.
Tendo Box - Nintendo e-zine
Http://www.tendobox.com



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 15:40:31 -0700
From: Dexter Sy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] Patriot Godzilla and Ryan

(scroll down for conversation)

Well, there is a lot of misinformation and fear of games.  It is new, and the
people in charge simply do not understand it.  Games have grown faster, in terms
of its intellectual content that its very different from the ping pong type games
politicians and parents today might have played. There is some support for games
in the silent majority of adults.  Most aren't against it totally, but agian, you
have groups screaming bloody murder over nothing.

As for Saving Private Ryan, it is a great movie. Certainly a war movie to remember
in later years. The best war movie?  I can't say, but I think Ryan has started a
stylistic dynasty.  I just downloaded the trailer to Michael Bay's Pearl Harbor,
its very Spielbergian. The battle sequences of the Japanese attack on Battleship
Row has the Saving Private Ryan quality with the jerky handheld camera and the
grainy film tone of Ryan.  Bay even paid respects to Spielberg's  Empire of the
Sun with a panning shot of a Japanese fighter flying across as a boy stands there
in awe of the sight.  In Empire of the Sun, it was an American fighter flying
accross the screen as the main character stood watching it fly .  Very suttle
allusion there, but being a Spielberg nut, I noticed that.



[e-mail] wrote:

> In a message dated 07/20/2000 11:31:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> [e-mail] writes:
>
> << On another note, I would write a thesis about the misguided crusades of the
>  soccer moms. Videogame violence are on a different level than reality and my
>  experiences with Ryan proved it.  I am sure I will flinch again when I see
> people
>  getting blow up for real, just because I play violent games doesn't mean I'm
>  immune to violence. Total nonsense >>
>
> You know, I never thought of that.  Videogame violence does not desensitize
> us and turn us into cold blooded killers.  Ryan shows how difficult it is to
> turn mankind against itself, and I think it's a great film, even if I don't
> watch it ten times.
> -Eric-
>
> [ To leave the movies mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ]
> [ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]

- --
Dexter S.
Tendo Box - Nintendo e-zine
Http://www.tendobox.com



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 08:38:31 -0700
From: RV Chua <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] Patriot Godzilla and Ryan

Dexter Sy wrote:

>
> *If you're not aware of the film, its about an English boy lost in Shanghai when
> the Japanese take over the city at the outbreak of world war 2.  It chronicles
> his life in the prisoner of war camps through to the end of the war.  The movie
> is based on the auto biography of the same name by J.G. Ballard who is also an
> excellent cyber punk author I might add.
>

I loved that movie, I found it very haunting. I saw it when I was probably 12 years
old. The first part was like The Lord of the Flies with only one character, I
distinctly remember that mudy, dried up pool before he finally left his house. That
introduced me to the talent of Christian Bale who is simply a marvelous actor but
somewhat overlooked. After the movie, I searched for the book and got to read it when
I was in college. Everytime I hear an angelic choir of boys, it reminds me of the
movie.

Was that Ballard's autobiography? Can't remember.

blacknight


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 19:09:29 -0700
From: Dexter Sy <[e-mail]>
Subject: [MV] Empire of the Sun (some spoilers)

Indeed.  It is an auto-biography by Mr. Ballard.  I believe parts were embelished and
changed, but the events roughly fallowed that of his own tale as a boy in Shanghai living
in P.O.W. camps under Japanese rule.   I actually saw the film on TV when I was about
10... this was in the early 90's.  I didn't remember much of the plot, I don't think I
was old enough to grasp the emotional richness of the film.  I just remembered it being a
Spielberg film and it dragged on forever, especially with the commercials.  I think it
last 4 hours on TV.    I only recently bought the video as I am a big WW2 buff and fell
in love with it.   Schindler's List wasn't the superior film in my mind.  It was very PC
and I think is more dear to Spielberg than Empire was but Schindler used a grown up
skeptiscm and realism as its eyes.  Empire was much more innocent and childlike in its
view of the world and I felt Spielberg is at his finest when he takes that perspective.
I mean some of his best movies were about kids is it not?

The film wasn't a financial success which is a shame but it is just superb.  There is a
sentimental innocence Empire of the Sun  that is similar, but much deeper than that in
E.T.    As for haunting, absolutely.  I've been to that part of the world, and I think
there's a personal connection there.  I can only imagine the atmosphere and the mood of
that era.  Spielberg with Ballard's work does an amazing job of building that "house of
cards" feel at the beginning of the movie, the feeling that everything is going to fall
apart in this boy's world.  We see westerners living in their opulant decedance, certain
of their superiority but the Japanese is always butting into the film.  The film opens
with a Japanese warship flying the "Rising Sun" battleflag plowing through the harbor and
then a little later there's a scene of the boy's father listening to reports of Japanese
troop build up as he burns documents.  At the embassy reception, we see the Japanese
ambassodor boasting of Japan's military might and of course the morning of the attack, we
see Japanese warships converging on the harbor.  And throughout that first act there are
images of the Zero-sen fighter sprinkled all around.  It all comes together so well, you
get the feeling that a this is a film about  a boy and his world, its not trying to be
political, the Japanese aren't painted as heartless villians  nor were the allies painted
as herioc fighters. Just a kid and his world.


John williams gives a stirring score for this film as well, accompanied by some angelic
sounding choruses which I liked as well.  Like you, I am also reminded of the film
whenever I hear that song sang.  Actually I was just watching the first part of the film
on video before deciding to watch the Sixth Sense instead (yep, just got it on DVD as it
is now very cheap).  I'll finish up with Empire later.  Do you know if its out on DVD?

Dexter



> Dexter Sy wrote:
>
> >
> > *If you're not aware of the film, its about an English boy lost in Shanghai when
> > the Japanese take over the city at the outbreak of world war 2.  It chronicles
> > his life in the prisoner of war camps through to the end of the war.  The movie
> > is based on the auto biography of the same name by J.G. Ballard who is also an
> > excellent cyber punk author I might add.
> >
>
> I loved that movie, I found it very haunting. I saw it when I was probably 12 years
> old. The first part was like The Lord of the Flies with only one character, I
> distinctly remember that mudy, dried up pool before he finally left his house. That
> introduced me to the talent of Christian Bale who is simply a marvelous actor but
> somewhat overlooked. After the movie, I searched for the book and got to read it when
> I was in college. Everytime I hear an angelic choir of boys, it reminds me of the
> movie.
>
> Was that Ballard's autobiography? Can't remember.
>
> blacknight
>
> [ To leave the movies mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ]
> [ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]

- --
Dexter S.
Tendo Box - Nintendo e-zine
Http://www.tendobox.com



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