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mobility-digest        Wednesday, July 26 2000        Volume 03 : Number 265



(mobility) re homoexuality and jesus
(mobility) Official Moby Website.......
(mobility) New Moby album on the way
Re: (mobility) Moby and Spirituality
Re: (mobility) Speaking of JESUS.. & homosexuality
(mobility) Anywho.......
(mobility) There are mysteries
Re: (mobility) Anywho.......
Re: (mobility) Anywho.......
Re: (mobility) MOOFY!
Re: (mobility) MOOFY!

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Date: 25 Jul 100 18:54:02 -0500
From: ian crowther <[e-mail]>
Subject: (mobility) re homoexuality and jesus

hi...i'm sorta new to the list, i guess...i've been on it for the past few months, but never found the time to send any intro in, except once or twice and it never showed (?).

anyway, basic intro stuff?...ummm...
ian
legal adult in the us
i own just about everything that stemmed out of everything is wrong (ie, the album, the remix dbl album, and i think all the singles) animal rights, rare (w/go megamix) one of the james bond promo 2lps, play, the honey/runon single and even (though i am somewhat loathe to admit it, the body rock maxi. here's hoping they follow suit for all the really good singles they've put out...i want a porcelain maxi!
right now i'm listening to faithless, dusted (go rollo!), bjork, pulp, cornershop/clinton, and most especially underworld.
only extra interesting info i've got is that i'll be attending vassar this fall, and that i saw moby two summers ago at the free concert he did in boston. which kicked a serious amount of bum.

but, to the point. i haven't even read the whole thread yet, but i should like to point out that most of the homosexual practices mentioned, and condemned, in the old testament are (or so many of them seem in context) cases of temple prostitution (that is, priests or similar acting as sexual objects for the purposes of venerating their gods and/or making money for their church, which was really very common, especially among worshippers of fertility god/esses) and rae during war of members of the opposing side, which, no matter which genders are involved, is pretty nasty. the old testament condemns a variety of heterosexual activities, too, far moreso (i hear that the ratio is something like 200:1)...But it is important to remember of course, that no matter what the fuck jesus may or may not have said, people tend to interpret that anyway they like, and act accordingly. so, my advice is to search deep into your heart/soul/being/consiousness and decide what feels most right to!
 you, and practice that. You'll be able to find a bible verse somewhere to support it in any case.

_________________________________________________________________
The revolution begins & ends with you.
Before you enter the palace of wisdom, you have to decide: are you ready to
rock?
                                                         -Pulp
_________________________________________________________________


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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 12:14:15 NZST
From: ". ." <[e-mail]>
Subject: (mobility) Official Moby Website.......

Sorry A-gain for the one-liner,  looks like the new Official website wont be
online now till Mid-August.


Tiffany.
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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 10:24:21 EST
From: "Jess ." <[e-mail]>
Subject: (mobility) New Moby album on the way

I forget who wrote that they made up a mix CD spanning all of MOBY's
styles...
Sounds like it would be awesome.. so what are the odds of having one of
those made up for me? Cost, postage and handling ALL covered in a fee :o)

Jess :O)
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Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 22:15:17 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (mobility) Moby and Spirituality

I am also wiccan. I don't see myself leaving the religion, I somehow get into
arguments with christians as to whether i'm a bad person or not, but oh well.
I love this religion.
I am vegitarian, not exactly vegan. Moby actually hasn't inspired my life as
much as others. He didn't change me from meat eating to no meat. I know alot
of vegetarians, and I'm a massage therapist so I was educated pretty well on
how to take care of yourself if you want to cut meat out of your diet. I feel
better when I don't have meat in me.
I'm not gonna let this go to a bad, long ramble. That's all from me


Emily

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Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 23:34:57 -0500
From: Christopher Michael Bourke <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) Speaking of JESUS.. & homosexuality

Tim's reply:

> To state that the bible tells people to kill other people is incorrect.
> Maybe you have forgotten all about the TEN COMMANDMENTS?  Thou Shall Not
> Kill.  That sounds vaguely familiar.

The actual translation of the Ten Commandments states that thou shalt do no
MURDER.  Murder is the malicious premeditated killing of another HUMAN.  The
simplistic translation of thou shalt not kill would mean that it would be
condemable to eat meat, or for that matter plants.  As for the homosexuality
issue, pick up a local King James version and read Leviticus 20:13:

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have ocmmitted an
obomination; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them."

> And if that is not enough then the
> bible also states that doing something in the name of God that is contrary
> to Man's law is a sin also.  Since murder is against man's law,

Again, note MURDER is against the law.  Killing is permissable in
self-defense, defense of another person, protection of property(in some
states), accidental death without malice, capital punishment, and other
situations.

> But normally I fault the person who takes a passage out
> of context to use it to their advantage.

It's hard to take the leviticus quote out of context, especially when
basically all the books of Moses give direct rules to follow--the covenent.
As someone else pointed out, many passages refer to temple prostitution,
this one doesn't.  As I said before, NONE of this is my belief, but the self
contradictions and harsh morality of christianity and the bible are reasons
enough to reject it.

> How can anyone or any church
> claim to know the TRUE will of God.  How arrogant does one have to be to
> think he knows TRUE will of God.

Exactly.  However once you start questioning, I think you'll eventually find
that there is no end to it.  "What makes you think YOUR right?"  "Well the
bible says so"  "Then what makes you think that the bible is right".  and
without the bible you have no basis for your belief that Jesus is a savior
sent by God, especially given the complete abscense of historical evidence.


Brad's repsonse:

> By that translation, Chris, you are saying that
> not only is it moral and justified to stone
> homosexuals, but also to sell your children into
> slavery, kill animals for religious purposes, and
> immoral to eat shellfish, wear clothing of mixed
> fabrics (cotton/polyester, for example) or have
> sex with your wife while she is menstrating.

Again, none of this is my belief, but if one is to accept the doctrine of
Christ, as he said it himself, then one has to accept the old testiment
convenent, including the antiquated garbage you describe.  If you aren't
willing to do that, then your being what I call a Buffet Believer, in other
words you are simply taking what sounds good, or what you like from the
bible and believing it while disregarding everything else.  If you reject
some part of the bible, then why not reject all of it?

> Too many people see Christianity as a rewards
> based system.

It is.  One obeys god to be in his presense in heaven, or suffers the
consequence of damnation, there is no reason, no logic, and no thought to
its moral system, just an irrational faith in an unknowable being.
Christianity may have the sideaffect of spiritual fufillment, though its
more likely a delusion for most people.  Aboslutely NO established docterine
of any sect, Catholic or Protestant, says otherwise, nor do any christian
readings, aside from the few words Christ is attributed.  People who believe
that Christianity as a religion is, as you say, a voluntary spiritual
journey is making up their own personal faith, which I have no problem with,
but insisting that you are blue, when you are obviously green is insanity.
THAT is why Moby states that he loves Christ, not "I am Christian".



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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 17:18:22 NZST
From: ". ." <[e-mail]>
Subject: (mobility) Anywho.......

Its all very confusing,  isnt it?.  So many different opinions on religion.
One cannot comprehend what is to be labelled correct and what is to be
thought of as "made-up mindless dribble"?  Personally,  it really dosent
bother me what religion anyone is, so long as you are not hurting others.
That is why, when I wrote my long letter the other day to mobility about the
christians protesting against gays, I mentioned that I have zero tolerence
for that kind of person,  one who can have such a serious disregard for
another human-being,  who CARES if they are gay?  if they are a good person,
what does it matter? are they asking you to join them as a homosexual, or
simply accept them as one?. Or do they really care what people may think
anyway, a good friend of mine is gay, and he sure as hell dosent!.  And what
makes a person believe they and their religion is above all others anyway?.
I do agree though, that some people may wish to percieve  a quote from the
bible as THEY want to percieve it,  I also know that there are so many
contradictions, so many things I dont understand, so many things ILL NEVER
understand,  but to spend my time trying to figure out what and who is right
and wrong is a waste of my life which I intend to live well.  I have my
beliefs and others have their own, And faith is something no matter how
complex or different to our own, is something we could all use,  wisely that
is.

I would like to know what particular passages or quotes in relation to
Christ, in particular, inspired and appealed to Moby the most.  He may not
read this,  but I would really love to hear his views.



Beegoodnow :)

and......


"Watch out where the huskies go.....
dont you eat that yellow snow"!!!  :)


Frank Zappa ROCKS!!!
(especially "Muffin Man"!!)
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Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 22:56:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brad Caviness <[e-mail]>
Subject: (mobility) There are mysteries

- --- Christopher Michael Bourke wrote:>
> Again, none of this is my belief, but if one is
> to accept the doctrine of
> Christ, as he said it himself, then one has to
> accept the old testiment
> convenent, including the antiquated garbage you
> describe.  If you reject
> some part of the bible, then why not reject all
> of it?
>
Because I don't reject it. I see the writings in
proper context. Even in the Old Testament, the
prophets say God took no pleasure in the animal
sacrifices of his people. Paul said from the time
of Moses the purpose of the Law was to teach
God's followers of the existence of sin. It has
been the Church's teaching since the time of the
apostles (see the book of Acts) that that
Gentiles need not follow judaism (especially
regarding the ritual circumcision and keeping
kosher) in order to follow Christ. Christ's
fulfillment of the law was bridging the spiritual
gap between the Creator and Creation. His
sacrifice justified not only the belief of his
followers to come, but of those before him who
believed God would provide the means to bridge
that gap.

> > Too many people see Christianity as a rewards
> > based system.
>
> It is.  One obeys god to be in his presense in
> heaven, or suffers the
> consequence of damnation, there is no reason,
> no logic, and no thought to
> its moral system, just an irrational faith in
> an unknowable being.
>
I find that statement contrary to the natural
evidence that God is rational. To pick an obvious
example... take sex. Why is it considered immoral
outside the bounds of a committed monogamous
relationship? Narrow-minded theology suggests
that STD's and the emotional consequences of
promiscuity are a punishment for such behavior. I
would suggest however, that the admonitions
against fornication serve, rather as a warning
that these things exist. Organisms and impulses
created to bring balance to creation. Similarly,
the admonitions to avoid pork and shellfish were
designed to help them avoid tainted food. And it
would take a fool to miss that the creation story
in genesis follows the same general path as
evolutionary trends. Similarly, Moses' commands
to the people of israel in Exodus and to the
priestly order in Leviticus were delivered to
establish a national identity for the jews as
they moved into to the territory they would
occupy for the next 4,000 years. Many of Moses'
commands bear directly upon countering specific
pagan and foreign practices in order to set the
hebrews apart and demonstrate how they were
chosen to be God's people. Outside of that
context, however, those commands have little
meaning. I would also argue that God is not
entirely unknowable. Unmeasurable, certainly. But
just because something is unquantifiable doesn't
mean it can't be experienced. The quantum state
of an electron can not be measured directly, but
Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle says we can
make certain deductions about it based on what is
observable.

> THAT is why Moby states that he loves Christ,
> not "I am Christian".
>
Moby has told me that the reason he declines to
call himself a "christian" is the lack of
agreement between the various sects and
denominations on various tenets of the faith, all
of whom claim ownership of the name "christian".
I see his point, but at the same time, I think
most Christians have far more in common with each
other than they lack.

=====
Bradley S. Caviness, Bigwig
Bigwig Enterprises

"I've often wondered how someone could put a critique of music into words. And I've also wondered why there was no musical commentary on writing."
- - Dr. Peter Kreeft, author



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Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 22:59:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brad Caviness <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) Anywho.......

- --- ". ." <[e-mail]> wrote:
> I would like to know what particular passages
> or quotes in relation to
> Christ, in particular, inspired and appealed to
> Moby the most.  He may not
> read this,  but I would really love to hear his
> views.
>
He's said in more than one interview that reading
the Sermon on the Mount (the Gospel of Matthew,
chapters 5-7) "was the highest wisdeom (he) had
ever encountered" and largely fueled his decision
to believe in and follow christ.


=====
Bradley S. Caviness, Bigwig
Bigwig Enterprises

"I've often wondered how someone could put a critique of music into words. And I've also wondered why there was no musical commentary on writing."
- - Dr. Peter Kreeft, author



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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 18:36:56 NZST
From: ". ." <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) Anywho.......

Thanks Brad, really appreciate it :)

Tiffany.


This
is
not
a
one-
liner!!!!




>From: Brad Caviness <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: (mobility) Anywho.......
>Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 22:59:46 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>--- ". ." <[e-mail]> wrote:
> > I would like to know what particular passages
> > or quotes in relation to
> > Christ, in particular, inspired and appealed to
> > Moby the most.  He may not
> > read this,  but I would really love to hear his
> > views.
> >
>He's said in more than one interview that reading
>the Sermon on the Mount (the Gospel of Matthew,
>chapters 5-7) "was the highest wisdeom (he) had
>ever encountered" and largely fueled his decision
>to believe in and follow christ.
>
>
>=====
>Bradley S. Caviness, Bigwig
>Bigwig Enterprises
>
>"I've often wondered how someone could put a critique of music into words.
>And I've also wondered why there was no musical commentary on writing."
>- Dr. Peter Kreeft, author
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get Yahoo! Mail û Free email you can access from anywhere!
>http://mail.yahoo.com/
>
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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 08:54:11 +0100
From: "Alastair WILLIS" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) MOOFY!

My girlfriend; Andrea's *unborn* child goes crazy-ape-bonkers to Moby too!

Whilst we were listening to Moby on 'The Xfm Highjack' (UK radio session)
the bundle of joy felt as though, bubbles were being blown, somersaults,
swaying and leg-kicking were going on amongst other *moves*. Moby we should
play Moby when it's time for the little one to show!

I'd love for you to let your friend with the two month old know that there
is another 'Moofy' fan!

God bless,

Ali



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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 04:10:36 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (mobility) MOOFY!

Moby is way cooler... well just as cool as Meatloaf.... I'll be watching the
Meatloaf movie because I perform in a cast of The Rocky Horror Picture Show..
Meatloaf's charachter is my favorite to play because you're on stage for like
three minitues, you rock out and then you die... Sorry.. This is my first
post.. I'm Darcy. I'm a seamstress/ Fashion Designer.. I live in San
Francisco, and I like Moby a alot... I'm kind of a new Moby fan.. the first
lp I've owned is Play... So some of you can call me a poser or whatever.. but
I do like techno... my favorite type being drum and base... Sorry I rambled a
bit... I'm a bit incoherent at the moment..but I'm happy to be posting here
so...yah!

- ---
Darcy

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End of mobility-digest V3 #265
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