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Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 21:37:15 -0500 (CDT)
From: theShackofXaq <zbentz@d.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: (mobility) Re: take it easy/CK debate...
On Fri, 7 Apr 2000, Christopher Michael Bourke wrote:
> Why do modern liberals think that a lack of animosity toward materialism,
> big business, capitalism, is from a lack of awareness or complacency?
because it is. to me, materialism can only exist in a complacent
atmosphere. we buy when we have the time and the money. we have money
when we follow the rules. we to work for someone we never meet, and
spend our money on products made by the people we work for. we do this
because we are told at every turn that this is the american dream. we are
told this by the people we work for and the people we spend our money
on....etc. etc.
> Did
> it ever occur to you that YOUR viewpoint is wrong? In a free society, ie a
> FREE MARKET, every one has the same opportunity.
oh come on! that statment is bullshit. tell that to someone with four
kids who has been downsized and is forced to beg for money. we see poorer
people than us as failures. they don't have the right house or the right
car or the right logo screaming across their chests and we laugh at them.
tell me that's equal opportunity.
> Private property is not a
> coercive force on others when they have the opportunity to gain for
> themselves.
you mean i TOO could someday own a small country? REALLY?
> Shallow attitudes are from a lack of education, whose
> primary
> determinant is personal ambition(a child will only learn if he/she wants
> to).
so a 10 year old child who has to raise her 4 year old brother while her
mom and dad work three jobs suffers a lack of education because of a
personal lack of ambition?
> "materialism" is the only alternative when one realizes and rejects
> the irrationality of mysticism.
you must be rich.
obviously you have a different definition of "materialism" than i do. so
anyone who believes in a god(s) is un-materialistic? all astrologers
and UFO sighters are un-materalistic? all televangelists are un-materialistic?
this sounds like a carl sagan quote, by the way. i think he would be less
than happy with your other statements.
to me, "materialism" is simply buying things you don't need because you
think you will be more popular and accepted into popular society.
ironicly, the things themselves are unimportant, it's the status you gain.
the environment around you is unimportant, the people around you (other than
the ones you are trying to impress) are unimportant, and the past and future
are unimportant. get the thing, put it on the shelf so everyone who
counts will see it, then throw it away.
read "culture jam: the uncooling of america" by kalle lasn. read
"adbusters" magazine. note: you won't find them at barnes & noble.
most important of all, think WHY before you buy.
[xaq]
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Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 23:14:25 -0700
From: "Jeff Ross" <jeffross@acsu.buffalo.edu>
Subject: Re: (mobility) Re: take it easy/CK debate...
i would have to agree w/ the shackofxaq and say that the american dream is
garbage as is our society which is largely based on it or its ideals...
jeff (lurker who never ever posts anything heh)
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Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 20:20:04 -0700
From: "Sara M." <trisexual@angelfire.com>
Subject: (mobility) Reverb
I don't know if anyone cares but I'll tell you this anyway:
If you have digital cable then I think you have chanel 553. The Reverb with Moby and the Super Furry Animals is rerunning from 1:00-2:00 a.m. (pacific time) Sunday 4/9 on channel 553, some HBO channel. Yes that's tonight. Sorry for the short notice. I was pleasantly surprised to see that it would be on again tonight because I missed it before.
There was a review of Play in my school newspaper. I can't remember exactly what it said but the person gave it 5/5 stars.
Well have a nice night everyone.
- -Sara
Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com
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Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 14:04:49 +1000
From: Robert A Jones <evilglowstickninja@juno.com>
Subject: Re: (mobility)jeeze
ok -- i think i may want off this list 2 -- but not b/c im disenchanted
w/Moby -- or his music -- or his use of Capitalism (which we all use so
dont try 2 deny it) -- but b/c im disenchanted w/his fans -- when i first
got sighned on the list it was a collective of people disussing an artist
and form of music that they had just a bit 2 much knowledge of (im one 2
- -- and im a bit obbsesed my self) - but now its a bunch of people
bichering and fighting all the time -- i hate getting my email b/c most
of it is any people fighting about crap istead of dicussing music and
Moby and fun stuff -- can we start another list 4 people who just like 2
