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From: owner-mobility-digest@lists.xmission.com (mobility-digest) To: mobility-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: mobility-digest V1 #319 Reply-To: mobility Sender: owner-mobility-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-mobility-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes mobility-digest Tuesday, February 2 1999 Volume 01 : Number 319 (mobility) thanks 2 (mobility) i am desprate Re: (mobility) thanks 2 (mobility) capitalism and dog eat dog... Re: (mobility) capitalism and dog eat dog... Re: (mobility) I am, well not so new...the reply... (mobility) evil ninja moby the non-vegan ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:36:06 -0000 From: "Geoffrey Sproule" <gsproule@x-stream.co.uk> Subject: (mobility) thanks 2 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BE4EFC.6BF50F20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hello I finally got my track in the post for thanks 2 (I had Cdr trouble) could you please email me if it is too late=20 Thank you - ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BE4EFC.6BF50F20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <STYLE></STYLE> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 5.00.0910.1309"' name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>hello I finally got my track in the post for thanks=20 2</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>(I had Cdr trouble)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>could you please email me if it is too late = </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thank you</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> - ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BE4EFC.6BF50F20-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:46:59 -0000 From: "Geoffrey Sproule" <gsproule@x-stream.co.uk> Subject: (mobility) i am desprate This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01BE4EFD.F1500C00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable could someone please send me a Cdr of underwater I am desperate to get a = hold of a copy of that disk or would anyone be willing to sell it or = trade it for anything if you send me a cdr I will get u a copy of anything I have=20 Thank you P.S.=20 I hope no one is offended but I have tried everything I can possibly do = to get this disk I didn't have a CD player when EIW came out so only = bought the tape version - ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01BE4EFD.F1500C00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <STYLE></STYLE> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 5.00.0910.1309"' name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>could someone please send me a Cdr of underwater I = am=20 desperate to get a hold of a copy of that disk or would anyone be = willing to=20 sell it or trade it for anything</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>if you send me a cdr I will get u a copy of anything = I have=20 </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thank you</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>P.S. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I hope no one is offended but I have tried = everything I can=20 possibly do to get this disk I didn't have a CD player when EIW came out = so only=20 bought the tape version</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> - ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01BE4EFD.F1500C00-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:49:25 -0600 (CST) From: Greg Shipley <gshipley@wiretrip.net> Subject: Re: (mobility) thanks 2 On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Geoffrey Sproule wrote: > hello I finally got my track in the post for thanks 2 > (I had Cdr trouble) > could you please email me if it is too late I'm confused - I got your submissions a while ago, no? Do you have new ones - or are you saying that you mailed them via snail-mail, or....? In either case, no, its not too late! Send away! Thanks, - -Greg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 18:29:23 +0000 From: cstepanek@nny.com (Chris Stepanek) Subject: (mobility) capitalism and dog eat dog... I couldn't resist one more spin on this... Capitalism in it's most basic ideas (no matter how you name it) will lead to a truely free society. What is the problem is man's nature, the "let the other guy do it" mentality and/or the greed mentality (that is also the reason socialist forms fail). You will always have one person who lets the other guy do it or hordes everything. John D. Rockefeller in my opinion is one of, if not THE, most important American every to contribute to any form of an economy. JDR lived in a time one of the most vital periods in American history (post civil war-pre 1900), a time of high economic growth, un-bridled capitalism and technological advancement. JDR played the economic game by his own rules in a true Laissez-faire capitalist way. However the public fear of a successful person lead to the "trust-busters" (JDR did do some dirty things, but the good far out weigh the bad) and teddy Rossevelt (another great american) breaking up Standard Oil. With the fall of Standard Oil (which was actually better for JDR, his fortune tripled because of it) government intrusion into business became the norm. Look at some of the early policies that the USA enforced in Alaska? government intrusion in business is a very bad thing. But because of man's nature un watched business can be a bad thing too. it is a double edge sword. onto colonialism.... now this I am sick of hearing. We, the USA, pushed the indians (native americans) off of their land. whine whine whine....boo-who! I used to think like this too, until I started studying history. The stronger replacing the weaker has always happened. Back when homo-sapien started living in groups the stronger group won the prime area. When population grew and good land became prime the weak were forced out to not so god areas. In fact native americans if you trace their history back were siberian tribes that were pushed out of the nicer areas across the land bridge to Alaska. Once in Alaska the strong groups took the prime areas while THEY forced the still weaker groups to the arctic (to become eskimos) and such. What I am illustrating here is that stronger pushing out the weaker has alwaysed happened, ever since the homo-sapien population grew to the point where prime land became valuable. North America was settled this way, Europe, Asia, Africa....it is a fact of life. Look at all the native american tribes that fought on what became America. There is a reason the Souix became one of the most powerful other than they were nice. they fought, batled and comqured. The Romans did it, the British did it (probably the most dirty of any society), the spanish did it, the canadians did it...even Ig and Ok our neanderthal relatives did it. Yes I do think the USA cheated native americans with legal ideals (they took land in courts that were not even represented) that most native americans at the time where not taught or even given the option to comprehend. They didn't take by force but rather by a combonation of law and force. This is the way homo-sapien is. It is why communisim fails (and then moral reasons) the reason capitalism is in the state it is, the reason weaker are beaten by the stronger. it is man's nature to horde, conquer and look out for him-self. Before anyone disagrees with me think about it. Yes, as rational humans we have no right to force our ways on others, but others have no reason to force their ways on us...but deep down man is in it for himself and no matter what means it takes will always be in it for himself...no matter how "PC" or "enlightened" 9whatever you call it) you to are human and have these tendencies. People forget we are animals, but what seperates us is reason. To bad very few really understand what this means.... chris cstepanek@nny.com ICQ # 25163388 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 00:03:18 +0000 (GMT) From: Tim Beecher <T.Beecher@Cranfield.ac.uk> Subject: Re: (mobility) capitalism and dog eat dog... Yes, I know the stronger, always push out the weaker and no country across the world can feel smug and say one is dirtier than another - but the fact that we're still doing it, and on a global scale is not progress, but self-destruction. Precisely because we can reason and have compassion, the world can be made much better than it already is. In the words of Jeremy Seabrook, 'New Internationalist', Jan-Feb, 1999: 'Capitalism now promotes itself as a cosmos, a single system which has substituted itself for the natural world it is destroying. In furtherance of this noble ideal it wastes humanity in one way or another, as the British socialist William Morris said, through excess or insufficiency. A world is still to be won: a world where wealth means a conserving and sparing plenty and poverty means a voluntary frugality; a world in which visions as old as humanity itself still remain to be realised.' and Eduardo Galeano from the same magazine: 'We are well aware of the fact that we human creatures are very busy devouring our fellow human beings and devastating the planet, but we also know that we wouldn't be here if our remote Paleolithic ancestors had been unable to adapt to the nature of, or not been willing to share what they hunted and gathered. No matter where, how or when a person may live, each one contains within themselves many possible persons and it's the ruling system, which has nothing eternal about it, that invites the basest occupants on to the stage every day, while preventing the others from growing and banning them from making an appearance.' So you think 'dog eat dog' is the way forward. Scary. I just hope you're views are in the minority in the next few years, for the sake of all our future generations! TMB On Tue, 02 Feb 1999 18:29:23 +0000 Chris Stepanek <cstepanek@nny.com> wrote: > I couldn't resist one more spin on this... > > Capitalism in it's most basic ideas (no matter how you name it) will lead to > a truely free society. What is the problem is man's nature, the "let the > other guy do it" mentality and/or the greed mentality (that is also the > reason socialist forms fail). You will always have one person who lets the > other guy do it or hordes everything. > > John D. Rockefeller in my opinion is one of, if not THE, most important > American every to contribute to any form of an economy. JDR lived in a time > one of the most vital periods in American history (post civil war-pre 1900), > a time of high economic growth, un-bridled capitalism and technological > advancement. JDR played the economic game by his own rules in a true > Laissez-faire capitalist way. However the public fear of a successful > person lead to the "trust-busters" (JDR did do some dirty things, but the > good far out weigh the bad) and teddy Rossevelt (another great american) > breaking up Standard Oil. With the fall of Standard Oil (which was actually > better for JDR, his fortune tripled because of it) government intrusion into > business became the norm. > > Look at some of the early policies that the USA enforced in Alaska? > government intrusion in business is a very bad thing. But because of man's > nature un watched business can be a bad thing too. it is a double edge > sword. > > onto colonialism.... > > now this I am sick of hearing. We, the USA, pushed the indians (native > americans) off of their land. whine whine whine....boo-who! I used to think > like this too, until I started studying history. The stronger replacing the > weaker has always happened. Back when homo-sapien started living in groups > the stronger group won the prime area. When population grew and good land > became prime the weak were forced out to not so god areas. In fact native > americans if you trace their history back were siberian tribes that were > pushed out of the nicer areas across the land bridge to Alaska. Once in > Alaska the strong groups took the prime areas while THEY forced the still > weaker groups to the arctic (to become eskimos) and such. > > What I am illustrating here is that stronger pushing out the weaker has > alwaysed happened, ever since the homo-sapien population grew to the point > where prime land became valuable. North America was settled this way, > Europe, Asia, Africa....it is a fact of life. Look at all the native > american tribes that fought on what became America. There is a reason the > Souix became one of the most powerful other than they were nice. they > fought, batled and comqured. The Romans did it, the British did it > (probably the most dirty of any society), the spanish did it, the canadians > did it...even Ig and Ok our neanderthal relatives did it. > > Yes I do think the USA cheated native americans with legal ideals (they took > land in courts that were not even represented) that most native americans at > the time where not taught or even given the option to comprehend. They > didn't take by force but rather by a combonation of law and force. > > This is the way homo-sapien is. It is why communisim fails (and then moral > reasons) the reason capitalism is in the state it is, the reason weaker are > beaten by the stronger. it is man's nature to horde, conquer and look out > for him-self. Before anyone disagrees with me think about it. Yes, as > rational humans we have no right to force our ways on others, but others > have no reason to force their ways on us...but deep down man is in it for > himself and no matter what means it takes will always be in it for > himself...no matter how "PC" or "enlightened" 9whatever you call it) you to > are human and have these tendencies. > > People forget we are animals, but what seperates us is reason. To bad very > few really understand what this means.... > > > chris > cstepanek@nny.com > ICQ # 25163388 > - ---------------------- Tim Beecher Cranfield University T.Beecher@Cranfield.ac.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 17:44:45 -0800 From: "Dr. Killpatient" <rfu@stitch.com> Subject: Re: (mobility) I am, well not so new...the reply... Chris Stepanek wrote: > > ok...on to a few, well points... > > 1)I think: That civilization has gone down hill since the Greeks. > > I agree with Chris...on many things actually. What I mean by society has > gone down hill from the Greeks I am refering to major philisophical and > aesthetic advances. True Greek society was very repressive, and primitive > and harsh but look at what the Greeks gave us. Architecturally (everything > that followed was based on Greek refinements), Philisophically (refined > logical thinking and the first true philisophical thinking), and Socially > (civic planning on a grand scale, public spaces, education). Society for > thousands of years has been refining and build off of Greek tradition. Sure > we have made advancements in science and technology since then but what I am > really concerned with in this point is the essence behind what the Greeks > gave us. > > 2)>> I know: socialism, collectivism, utopianism, and/or communisim is wrong > >> (what every you want to call it, it is all the same), it steals all or man's > >> essential rights. > > Again Chris I 100% agree with you. Actually you said what I was going to > say, but far better than I. Laisezz-faire capitalism is the only form of > economy/political system (even though it is not) that allows man to live in > true freedom. See Christopher Michael Bourke's wonderful thoughts in > mobility #317 for further explaination. > > 3)>I vote: Straight Republican (I could never morally allow myself to vote > >Democrat) Why not Libertarian? HA! > > Please?! Just one comment on this whole thing. Your comment here about your morals not allowing you to vote anything but republican are typical of most republican conservatives- do you realize how self righteous that sounds? You might as well come right out and say that you feel you are a better person than any democrat or other non- republican and that anyone who doesn't vote republican is immorral. I think that's great when people have high morals, but when they vote to pass laws to hold everyone else to their high moral standards- that is wrong. It can be compared to not believing in abortion- if you feel it is wrong, then don't do it. But when you can't have your way by forcing a law on people, SOME religious terrorists feel that killing doctors and blowing up clinics is somehow moral. The ultimate in self righteousness, and ignorant blind evil. You should tone down the self righteousness a bit if you want to argue your point. Perhaps you should explain yourself further about why you feel so morally superior as a republican... paul > > 4)>I think: Ayn Rand wrote alot of truth, and also alot of lies > > Lies? praytell which ones? > > I agree with alot of what Ayn Rand wrote and thought. I do however disagree > with her interpretation of Art and culture. > > 5)HA! An architect who loves "Atlas Shrugged"! I think you should take > more > stock in John Galt's speeches. A fellow architect should know the beautiful > achievments man is capable of, right? > > Yes I do think man is capable of beautiful achievments. However I think > they are the exception and not the norm. > > 6)>Coolest Moby experience: meeting Moby on the Subway last summer and > having > >lunch with him, he really is an amazing person. > > What did we talk about? Philosophy, religion (blah) and a pair of shoes > Moby just bought. > > ---- > > Ok I have taken up enough space in this list with this stuff. If you wanna > talk about this please e-mail me and we will talk there, and not fill this > list up with un related Moby stuff. > > thanks > chris > cstepanek@nny.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 18:00:18 -0800 From: "Dr. Killpatient" <rfu@stitch.com> Subject: (mobility) evil ninja moby the non-vegan very well said chris! I think you should be a history major... Sure it's easy to argue the other side and find the tyranny, but I never heard anyone point out the good points in such a simple clear manner. Perhaps all empires have a split personality- how can they not with all the people that influence the agenda? Sure- Moby does not eat meat or animal products.... but what about EVIL NINJA MOBY? Hmmm....I don't know what a ninja's diet consists of, but I think that if he were evil that perhaps that includes eating meat. A Split personality can be very useful actually....how else can I be a vegitarian and still eat prime rib a couple times a year? I'm working on that... I have been meat free for over a month now!!! I actually went for it. I feel much better of course for the most part and lost a little weight. I don't know if I will ever be able to be vegan, I'm not ready for that! I like milk and cheese too much. What no sour cream??? What no ice cream? Not likely. Yes, I know about the hormones. I will try just vegitarian for a year or so and see if I feel different about being completely vegan. I'm planning on working seafood back into my diet as well, maybe once a week. I can't find any reason NOT to do that. That eliminates the need to take certain supplememnts that vegitarians need to survive. But once or twice a year I plan to break down and become the evil doctor- and have the only meat worth breaking the rules for- prime rib. It's easy, I'll just get stinking drunk and forget who I am for one night. later all paul Chris Bourke wrote: > > On Tue, 2 Feb 1999 FRIE1_98@WORC.AC.UK wrote: > > Britain had a relatively positive impact > > on their colonies. > > > > Oh really!? > > Yes, really. > > I originally intended to leave the message like that as a joke, but I > can't resist elaborating(something that you should have done). > > Britain ended the legal descrimination of India's caste system that had > prevailed for thousands of years, creating one of the most stable third > world democracies(to this day!) who have a majority vote and still respect > individual liberties. > > In Africa Britain ended centuries of tribal warfare in their colonies, > bringing about peace and relative order, giving structure again to > governments and society as a whole > > Britain was the first European country to ban slavery, and not just in > Britain, they banned it in the entire empire, saving millions of lives and > staving off the slave trade. > > In general, Britain was interested not in nationalistic conquest or > violent repressive expropriation, rather they were interested in expanding > markets and opening trade routes by forcing GOVERNMENTS(little more than > local and regional tyrants) to lower trade barriers. In China for > example, Britain ended the tyrannical hold on the economy during the Opium > wars. The contact and influence of latent enlightenment principles > Britain brought with them were the positive impact that they had on their > colonies. ------------------------------ End of mobility-digest V1 #319 ****************************** ------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to majordomo@xmission.com with the line "unsubscribe mobility-digest" in the body.