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mobility-digest       Tuesday, February 2 1999       Volume 01 : Number 320



Re: (mobility) evil ninja moby the non-vegan
(mobility) Goldie...
Re: (mobility) I am, well not so new...the reply...
(mobility) step on my neck
(mobility) [Fwd: Majordomo results: please unsubscribe me]
Re: (mobility) survey
Re: (mobility) Bessie Jones
(mobility) Vegetarian split personalities
(mobility) @@@@here's some reality for Ed & Tim.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:56:22 -0800
From: "Kelbert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) evil ninja moby the non-vegan

> I have been meat free for over a month now!!! I actually went for it.
> I feel much better of course for the most part and lost a little weight.
> I don't know if I will ever be able to be vegan, I'm not ready for that!
> I like milk and cheese too much. What no sour cream??? What no ice cream?
> Not likely.

well, first things first.
congrats. tis a big step. not eating meat.
moby would be proud :)

its all about finding a happy medium.

moby is happy as a vegan. good for him.  find YOUR happy medium.  that's
all you need to do. so if that includes dairy products, so be it. do what
ya gotta do.  don't let anyone put you down for it. then again, some
militant vegans will disagree with me. but what can i say? thats my two
cents...

- -kelly

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 19:47:10 CST
From: "Derek Goodwrench" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (mobility) Goldie...

>personally, i  have never paid more than 20 bucks for a cd, and that cd
was
>goldie"s saturnz return, a double cd. i guess i'm lucky enough to work
for
>best buy and have friends at rolling stones and tower.
>andrew
>


      I paid 7 bucks for it used. Despite the media wrestling with it, I
thought it was fabulous. Made me even more of a fan. Saying it wasn't
DnB is a total piece of crap, seeing as how it sounded enough like it
for me.

     d...

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:50:41 -0600
From: John Turpin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) I am, well not so new...the reply...

>I think that's great when people have high morals, but when they vote to pass
>laws to hold everyone else to their high moral standards- that is wrong.
>It can be compared to not believing in abortion- if you feel it is wrong,
>then don't do it. But when you can't have your way by forcing a law on people,
>SOME religious terrorists feel that killing doctors and blowing up clinics
>is somehow moral. The ultimate in self righteousness, and ignorant blind evil.
>You should tone down the self righteousness a bit if you want to argue your
>point.
>Perhaps you should explain yourself further about why you feel so morally
>superior
>as a republican...

To make this Moby-related, I suppose that liberal activists
(environmentalists, vegans, anti-smokers, etc.) don't typically conduct
themselves in such self-righteous ways, right? Enforcing any kind of law is
forcing one set of morals on someone else.

- --
    C        The C.O.D.         John Turpin
    |                <jct1@
   / \                Ra.MsState.Edu>
  O   D    <http://www2.msstate.edu/~jct1/cod/>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 19:46:24 +0000
From: clay <[e-mail]>
Subject: (mobility) step on my neck

chris step on a neck wrote:
>  I couldn't resist one more spin on this...
> >

It's pretty obvious chris
you can't resist shit............

i guess we're alike in that respect.




damian.....please.....i'm beggin ya.




clay

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 19:53:30 +0000
From: clay <[e-mail]>
Subject: (mobility) [Fwd: Majordomo results: please unsubscribe me]

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the individual is god
nobody's rights matter besides the individual's.

chris.......

you suck


totally and for a long time....it seems.

please remove from from this list and this god awful
bullshit.




clay

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 21:54:44 CST
From: "Derek Goodwrench" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) survey

>>an someone start a new thread please?
>like a survey or sumpin?
>
>Okay.. for a new thread.. I have a survey if you want to answer it..
>
>1)  Do you like Moby?

   Sometimes. He's been collecting dust lately, (except for EOE)
>
>2)  Which album is your favourite?

   Probably, right now, 'End Of Everything'.
>
>3)  Which single is your favourite?

   I don't have very many, but mine is probably the regular
'...Revolver' single (not the orange one, but the other one )

>
>4)  Which song is your favourite?

   Close, but it's "Alone" at this moment. I also like "Great Lake".
Notice a resemblance between the two?
>
>5)  If you could be anyone, who would it be?

   No one.
>
>6)  Which hairdoo looks best on Moby?

   Either the mohawk in the bathrobe picture, or hie usual one.
>
>7)  When do you predict Moby will next tour?

   Can't honestly say.
>
>8)  What type of pet(s), if you have/had?

   Have: 1 white cat, 1 hamster, about 9 fish, 2 newts, 2 frogs.
   Had: 3 other cats, 1 dog, 3 other hamsters, 2 other fish, 1 newt, 2
ghost shrimp.
>
>9)  Where would you go if you could go anywhere in the world?

   Good question...lame answer...
>
>10)  What is your favourite colour of socks and why?

   White. I'm used to them.
>
>11)  What do you think will happen in the year 2000?

   People will celebrate all the holidays for exactly a year, then it'll
be 2001, the REAL start of the 21st century.
>
>12)  Where do you think you will be in 10 years?

   At home wondering how to cope with being 10 months away from my 30th
birthday.
>
>13)  What's your favourite colour of toothbrush?

   A definite green mint color.
>
>14)  What's your biggest pet peeve?

   Newts with 3 arms.
>
>15)  Do you want to be buried or cremated?

   Death isn't too high on my list goals anyway.
>
>16)  What's your favourite type of cookie?

   Chewy Chips Ahoy!


  d


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 22:00:07 CST
From: "Derek Goodwrench" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) Bessie Jones

>BTW, they were talking about "The Smiths", a British band of the 80's,
>I remember.
>

    Long live the Moz!


   And they're both vegetarians?


   d


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:17:35 -0600
From: Christopher Michael Bourke <[e-mail]>
Subject: (mobility) Vegetarian split personalities

>very well said chris!
>I think you should be a history major...
>Sure it's easy to argue the other side and find the tyranny, but I
>never heard anyone point out the good points in such a simple clear manner.
>Perhaps all empires have a split personality- how can they not with
>all the people that influence the agenda?
>Sure- Moby does not eat meat or animal products....
>but what about EVIL NINJA MOBY?
>Hmmm....I don't know what a ninja's diet consists of, but I think
>that if he were evil that perhaps that includes eating meat.
>A Split personality can be very useful actually....how else can I be
>a vegitarian and still eat prime rib a couple times a year?
>
>I'm working on that...
>I have been meat free for over a month now!!! I actually went for it.


First, thanks.  Second, I have been meat free for about 1 year and 3 months.
However, I am not a total vegan.  Also, during the summer I went to New
Orleans and broke my vegetarianism in order to partake in the local cuisine.
I wonder how many other vegans/vegetarians break their tradition and under
what circumstances.  I also broke it and had some good prime rib with my
family this past christmas/newyears.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:12:28 -0600
From: Christopher Michael Bourke <[e-mail]>
Subject: (mobility) @@@@here's some reality for Ed & Tim.

First, Ed, please, "I'm afraid I just don't agree with this"?  It's mainly
accepted historical interpretation and points of fact.  Rebuttle if you
wish, but please elaborate.

Secondly, on to Tim's letter:


>Oh come on both Chris', let's get some reality here.
>Britain was primarily interested in advancing it's own
>wealth at the expense of the people it conquered - thank
>God colonialism has virtually died amongst the European
>nations. It was pure exploitation, and competition for
>power that accelerated the ravaging of other cultures and
>their wealth to be ahead of their other European rivals.
>The French and the British were constantly at it and look
>how the Spanish before them decimated the peoples of
>Central and South America. They had a very advanced
>civilisation compared to many money grabbing, war mongering
>Europeans.


Again, in historical context if you pick up any book on Britain's history,
instead of quoting the biased opinions of the "New Internationalist"  you
would see mounds of documentation.  While France, Portugal and Spain
attempted to drain colonies of natural resources and violently put down it's
local people, enslaving them Britain had a much more positive effect.  I'm
not saying that colonialism was ever justified, just that relatively, the
Brits never went to the extent of the rest of Europe.  The Good that they
did far outweighed the bad, and their motives were just as I said, attempts
to open new markets and tear down trade barriers controlled by local and
regional tyrants.

>I think it's pure arrogance to suggest that any nation
>should be encouraged to force others to accept its way of
>life, culture and religion. Some people in the West have a
>serious superiority complex!

Again, if you know anything of true history, the Brits allowed self
government, freedom of religion and even went to great extents to preserve
language and culture in their colonies(observe for instance India, in which
each local state was given local rule and encouraged to keep the mother
tounge).  Not so with the rest of Europe.  Historical observation is not a
justification for colonialism.  I never suggested that any nation should "be
encouraged to for others to accept its way".  However, I will state that
there are objective rules/guidelines for morality.  Would you take your
cultural relativism so far as to say WWII Germany was justified in their
autrocities in so far as their own borders were concerned?

>
>Tribal wars in Africa were far less damaging to the world
>and humanity than those fought by present 'first world'
>nations over the centuries, but none so appalling as this
>century.

A result of Nationalism/Facism/and Socialistic trends, Capitalism did not
percipitate in any measurable degree the events leading up to the Great
world wars.

>The U.S.A. was also built on colonialism to get where it is
>today - the native peoples didn't get much say when it came
>to living on their own land and what rights they had to
>their own land. I don't think you'd be saying the same
>things if the tables were turned.

What the US Government did to the native americans was unforgivable.  But
one must understand the mentalities and situation involved.  The Native
Americans were largely Nomadic people who had no concept of "owning land."
Even if the "white man" were to pay the native Americans for their land,
they would see it as very odd and would probably not have anything to do
with such a transaction.  Europeans and Americans on the other hand had very
evolved and developed sence and legal definitions of ownership which
included land and natural resources.  This culture clash was sadly
inevitable, but I don't think that this country was build on the Manifest
destiny move westward.  The east already had highly developed and rich
economic bases.

>Capitalism and globalisation today, thanks to the 'free
>market' has pushed its new brand of colonialism and
>imperialism on other nations inside and outside the West,
>to satisfy the minority rich in the rich nations and fuck
>up the 'have-nots' in the process - the majority of these
>people are forced into poverty by the current system. The
>Majority world (Third World) nations are held to ransom by
>the IMF and World Bank by never-ending debt and usury
>(usury, at one time being a sin according to old
>Judaeo-Christian and Islamic beliefs).

Excuse me?  The Third world's economic capital comes from INVESTMENT from
the west, not extrodinarily high interest loans.  If anything The third
world nations would never (governmetns) would never get ANY loans because of
political turmoil making them extremely bad credit risks.  Instead these
countries tend to print more money which leads to hyper inflation, ruining
their OWN economies.  The have nots are have nots, not because of external
"multinational" corporations but because of thier own autocratic governments
controlling their economy and raping their resources in attempts to continue
their regimes.

>Laissez-faire capitalism (sounds better than the present
>form) but has led to ludicrous pacts between rich
>governments allowing industry to have free reign, in
>whatever countries industry chooses, i.e. the MAI pact
>recently in Geneva. Industry will have no accountability -
>so it can exploit workers, pollute the environment and just
>continue to ravage about any decent thing left in society
>and the world around us with no controls and governments of
>poorer countries and even the rich ones won't be able to do
>a damn thing about it unless this crazy notion is stopped.
>So capitalism, laissez - frigging - faire or not, will
>still exploit for capitalists' own ends; someone will
>always suffer as a result.

Ha!  You have shown that you have no concept of what Laissez-faire
capitalism is!  No Government intervention in the economy is exactly what it
says!  NO INTERVENTION.  That means no FAVORS no SUBSIDIES no FAVORITISM,
period!  Capitalism extends from political and moral theories not a need for
economic development.  No controls doesn't mean no accountability!  Yet
another way government controls in the form of tort reform pervert the true
principles of Capitalism!  Public resources such as drinking water and the
air would be subject to public protection, ie through civil action against
those who would polute the environment.  Exploitation in a true
laissez-faire, free market economy is NOT possible.  Every man/woman is free
to decide who to work for and at mutually agreed upon wages.  Low wages are
NOT exploitation in and of themselves.  Please.

>I'm not sure you can refer to Indonesia as a socialist
>nation - it is still hands-in-glove with the capitalists of
>the West, which helps fund it's repression of the East
>Timorese and it's own people. Even China is more of a
>capitalist nation with the gloss of communist principles
>over it - now that is repressive to the extreme - the worst
>of both bad worlds.

?!?!!?  Indonesia not a socialist country?  What praytell is it?  If not
socialist I would agree that it is ruled by a MILITARY REGIME, and not
governed by capitalistic principles(which include respect of personal
liberty against a tyrannical government)

There is not a single private, major industrial entity in all of China with
the exception of HK.  Communisms death has been staved off and they have
made capitalistic reforms in the last few decades, but they are FAR from
capitalism.  Everything is still state owned.

>As for the rainforests and indigenous peoples - I'm not
>just referring to the Amazonian one. Their destruction is
>fuelled by the insatiable desire of capitalist-driven
>globalisation. Subsistence farmers wouldn't have to destroy
>so much if they were in a state that provided controlled
>and carefully managed agriculture and
>conservation/ecological principles to benefit everybody and
>everything. Let's also remember that the prime culprits of
>rainforest destruction are the rich cattle ranchers, heavy
>industry and dam builders funded by the World Bank, for the
>rich countries own interest and usury.

Just like Stalin's Russia huh?  The murder of millions of Kulaks in the name
of government controlled agricultural development.  Global warming and the
Rain Forests are scientifically questionable to begin with.  Ha!  You sound
like a militia man they with your conspiritorial antagonisms toward the
World Bank.  They don't own everything my friend.  again, see above.

>There is enough food to feed everyone in the world right
>now, but under the current economic regime (which is out of
>control and is on the verge of self-destruction)- the haves
>get more and the have-nots get even less. Where does it end?
>
>Are you saying that all us comfortable, well-off types
>(usually already born with a silver spoon in our mouths,
>while others are trapped in poverty with no chance of ever
>escaping, all because of past silver spoon, exploitative
>bastards), should leave people starve to death? Do you
>think they willingly let themselves starve to death and so
>they deserve it? Should we exterminate all handicapped and
>ill people because they are a drain on our military
>expenditure because they deserve it? People must be fired
>from there jobs and become homeless because they're human
>and not running around like headless chickens for the sake
>of the stock market to feed the fat bastards at the top.
>Some of us have short memories.
<<<<snip>>>>but simply self-destruction.
>


Atlas Shrugged.  You identify the prime mistake in all statist/conrolled
economy advocates.  First, you resort to pathos-like rhetoric trying to
appeal to people with the pathetic starving masses.  You ignore the entire
basis of WEALTH.  Wealth is not static, it is not given, it is created!  The
Atlases of our world create weath through hard work and earned(ie deserved)
endeavors.  In a free society wealth cannot be used to exploit put down or
influence anyone to do anything!  The only problem with today's system is
that people with money(the rich) aren't true to the ideals of laissez-faire
capitalism and the governments instituted allow such bribery.  the wealth
would rather not have to work to maintain or create weath and instead buy
influence with governments and those in control.  This is the TRUE problem
and why many people still suffer poverty.


>True equality is liberty against economic and social
>oppression.

True equality is equality before the law.  The only entity that should
morally be allowed to have a monopoly on physical force is the Government.
And within that government, application of the law is equal accross all
social/political/racial/etc... differences.  Egalitarianism is a vile and
perverse form of equality that should never be allowed("Harrison Bergeron").
There is no such thing as a right to a house, a right to food, a right to
entertainment or anything else.  There is only a right to freely persue the
acquisition of these things through one's own work and talent.  No one is
entitled to another man's property.

>
>Okay, that's it for now - just haed to get it off my chest
>- I was bursting!


Me too, but not the bursting part.

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End of mobility-digest V1 #320
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