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mobility-digest        Sunday, December 6 1998        Volume 01 : Number 288



Re: (mobility) References: <[e-mail]>
Re: (mobility) @@@@@@@american history x
Re: (mobility) @@@@@@@Psycho redux
Re: (mobility) @@@@@@@Psycho redux
(mobility) clay bashing
(mobility) Re: the anti clay
Re: (mobility) Re: the anti clay

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 23:58:11 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (mobility) References: <[e-mail]>

In a message dated 12/5/98 6:05:10 AM Central Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< What about 'The Prodigy'? >>
he did do a remix of "everybody is in the palce" for the prodigy

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 00:11:37 -0700
From: "Michaela Gerstner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) @@@@@@@american history x

wow!  now i really want to see this movie!  unfortunately, i don't go to the
theatres much because tickets are way over priced!  $7.50!!!  makes me want
to live back in gainesville again, where it was $2.75 for students...
::sigh!::

i did see psycho on friday night.  i recommend it to everyone!  gus van sant
(i think that's the guy) did a wonderful job with it!  vince vaughn, ann
hesche.. everyone did a remarkable job acting.  there are still some
characteristics left in it from the original, but the new modern twists just
make it wonderful.  this isn't as nice as clay's review... i'm not that
artistic, especially after working 8 hrs straight and just now getting off.
anyways, time to go to sleep.  :)
plovious


- -----Original Message-----
From: clay <[e-mail]>
To: sylly <[e-mail]>; susanne stark <[e-mail]>; sarah
heald <[e-mail]>; rames <[e-mail]>;
[e-mail] <[e-mail]>; Greta Bollinger
<[e-mail]>; mjo <[e-mail]>; isvara <[e-mail]>;
Dr. Peter Wirsching <[e-mail]>; CC <[e-mail]>;
[e-mail] <[e-mail]>; Tim
Klepeis/adams ave grille <[e-mail]>
Date: Saturday, December 05, 1998 9:24 PM
Subject: (mobility) @@@@@@@american history x


>i saw american history x with my son tonight.
>this is my review:
>
>
>from the beginning, one quickly realizes <american history x> is
>a story which provides no time to slowly get into your characters,
>their environment, or their situations.
>from the outset, danger lurks on the streets
>and violence not only threatens to,
>but indeed does, erupt in the streets.
>like <in cold blood> and <face off> we
>witness a crime as an opener.
>and more than one.
>thusly we are thrust into a world of vengeance, pride, and avarice.
>racism and religion mix with fear and anger
>and the streets of venice, california
>become a hotbed for underclass frustrations, both black and white.
>the story is of two brothers who fall into neo-nazi
>fanaticism as a result of their
>paternal teachings and the subsequent death of their father.
>the story is simple to follow and believable.
>at times, the dialogue seems heavily didactic
>and yet moves along well enough, rewarding the viewer
>with the subsequent violence that such dramatic philosophies
>inevitably lead to.
>stacy keach is perfect as the founder/benefactor of the
>skinhead organization. his evil charisma oozes through
>the celluloid as he projects his very real agenda onto the streets and
>basketball courts of a quaint california beach city.
>elliot gould is a natural as a liberal jewish teacher dating the boys'
>mother.
>edward norton is gripping as a skinhead who amazingly transforms his
>racist outlook during his prison sentence.
>in fact, this is the one difficult equation of the film, for me to
>handle.
>that is, in that i have never known any person of a truly racist
>tendency to ever come out of jail
>less racist than when he went in.
>it has always seemed that prison reinforces the hateful nature of
>racial differences, as it only reflects the very worst of what our
>society can offer.
>but let us imagine the exception, and <american history x> does.
>the music is done by anne dudley (art of noise)
>and is used quite sparingly and to the utmost effect>
>
>but of all the qualities this film brings to bear,
>it is young edward furlong's performance who astonishes you by
>truly capturing the nihilistic
>angst, fear, pride, and disaffected attitude
>of a frightened and fearless 90's american youth.
>this is a story of rage and reaction.
>it is a story of love and misery.
>it is a story of life and death in a country
>where we're all still learning how to get real.
>it is a story of the history we write together ....tonight
>and tomorrow
>
>at one point, the older brother, derek, tells the younger, dan:
>"i'm just so tired of being pissed off...."
>
>
>let us hope the lessons such a film offers
>are not too late for our kids.
>and from what the boys spending the night here, tonight, are saying,
>maybe it's not.
>
>
>
>clay  12/5/98
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 08:24:52 -0600 (CST)
From: bill tatalovich <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) @@@@@@@Psycho redux

On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, Michaela Gerstner wrote:

> i did see psycho on friday night.  i recommend it to everyone!  gus van sant
> (i think that's the guy) did a wonderful job with it!  vince vaughn, ann
> hesche.. everyone did a remarkable job acting.  there are still some
> characteristics left in it from the original, but the new modern twists just
> make it wonderful.  this isn't as nice as clay's review... i'm not that
> artistic, especially after working 8 hrs straight and just now getting off.
> anyways, time to go to sleep.  :)

Okay, so I saw Psycho on thursday night in an empty theater (ah, the
wonders of having a friend who works at a movie theater), and I'm going to
disagree with Plovious.  I mean, hell, it's Psycho in Gus Van Sant's
hands, so it doesn't suck, but I guess I was expecting more.

Basically, if you've seen the old Psycho, you've seen the new one.  Same
storyboarding (I found out later that they physically used the old
storyboards), slightly different script ("Wait, let me get my walkman"???
Please...), very similar acting...in other words, nothing special.

Vince Vaughn did a really decent job as Norman, but it would have taken
the performance of a lifetime to beat out ol' Anthony Perkins.

So yeah...my vote is, Psycho's good if you can see it for free.  Paying
for it, now that's another thing.

Bill Tatalovich

|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Reverend Bill Tatalovich | Home page:                                |
|                          |   http://students.cec.wustl.edu/~wt3/     |
| [e-mail]        |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| [e-mail] |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 07:48:57 +0000
From: clay <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) @@@@@@@Psycho redux

okay okay....psycho

clay's gon respond and say his bit about
weirdo psycho movies in america coming out of hollywood>

there is wayyyyy to much of it to begin with.
it almost explains our violence>
weirdos who keep mom stored up in the upstairs years after she's dead?!
jeez...it was stupid 3o years ago.
it's still dumb!
and it's a shot by shot remake...practically!

it's psycho worship and if you're gonna remix it...then remix it.
don't just put a splash of color in it!

i think in this country we need kids to see and understand
real violence
and with a moral to it>
so as to understand one thing....it sucks.
creepy asses coming out walls and growing fangs and bititng legs and
chewing brains and laughing and feeding dead mommy and
killing and scaring all the kids at the after-dance party.....
that's all perversion sick retarded stupid and a waste of time and
money.

let's see and feel what it's like to have a friend
crushed to death
so maybe we won't have THAT happen to us........
cause baby there's lots of that happening (and waiting to happen)
to those who thrill on the sick rush of hate
and revenge.

it's human and natural and it's happening round the world.

we should have good art which shows people behaving at their best and
good art which shows people at their worst.
but people who drink blood and pop outta tv sets and
walk on ceilings and fly and scare little kids???????????!!!!!
that's hollywood at it's sick perverted uncreative and greedy worst.

too bad van zant couldn't do more with his (and our) time and money.




blah


clay

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 16:09:25 -0600 (CST)
From: theShackofXaq <[e-mail]>
Subject: (mobility) clay bashing

ok, i'm sorry. i've tried very hard to keep my mouth shut and just let
things go in one ear and out the other, but clay has gove too far. if
this gets me kicked off the list, then fine. i've been here since the
begining of the list and have had some good times, but more often than
not i've had to delete thousands of messages that don't even deal with
techno, much less moby or music of any kind. i'm only postinmg this to
everyone because i think clay deserves to be properly delt with in a
public environment.

On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, clay wrote:
> weirdo psycho movies in america coming out of hollywood>

you're right. no one anywhere but in hollywood has ever made a horror movie.

> weirdos who keep mom stored up in the upstairs years after she's dead?!
> jeez...it was stupid 3o years ago.
> it's still dumb!

you're right clay, insanity is dumb. we should make fun of the clinically
insane. they are just so darn silly aren't they!!!

> i think in this country we need kids to see and understand
> real violence
> and with a moral to it>

violence never has a moral. to commit violence requires a complete
abandonment of morals. even violence commited to save a life. if you
believe in the whole god idea, to hurt anything is to hurt god, right?
please give me an example of "real violence."

> creepy asses coming out walls and growing fangs and bititng legs and
> chewing brains and laughing and feeding dead mommy and
> killing and scaring all the kids at the after-dance party.....
> that's all perversion sick retarded stupid and a waste of time and
> money.

"perversion sick retarted stupid." clay, your posts are always a joy to
de-code. you have no understanding of the human mind, do you? you claim
to have a child, but you come off sounding like a pissed off 14 year old
kid. i'm only 22, but you make me feel like an old scholor. i don't know
shit and i admit it, but you make me feel good about myself.
horror film and writing is only one of many ways the we as humans have of
dealing with our world. in the past, it explained the things that science
had yet to define. it was folk stories and myth. it's no different today.
sure, almost all of what you call "hollywood" movies are made to get
money and not to further our understanding of ourselves. that's because
more and more people are getting less and less of an education. few
people have time to read a book with a deep look into thought prosess.
it's all "get to the point" and "action action now." there are far too
many things to blame this on, but my favorate scapegoat is television and
bad parenting. i was lucky enough to have a mother who read to me every
night and gave me books for birthdays and christmas. i also grew up in
front of a television but spent just as much time with books.
but i digress...
horror represents the unknown all around us. the confusion and
alienataion we all feel. the fear of being judged. this is probably why
horror and religion go hand in hand, and why the vampire myth is so
strong in today's scociety. many people fear that they are evil and can
never be accepted into heaven. they love the material world and the world
of the flesh. it's all we can really know, isn't it? religion, like
horror, can really only be speculation and belief. you can never prove
the existance of ghosts or god, can you? you can only say "i think i saw
a ghost" or "i think i saw the face of god." to say that horror is "dumb"
is to say the god is "dumb." to me. god is just as likely to exist as
lestat (a character from anne rice.)

> let's see and feel what it's like to have a friend
> crushed to death
> so maybe we won't have THAT happen to us........
> cause baby there's lots of that happening (and waiting to happen)

a lot of people are being crushed to death? where?

> to those who thrill on the sick rush of hate
> and revenge.

i could give you a few examples of christians who thrill on the sick rush
of hate.

> it's human and natural and it's happening round the world.

yes. hate is human. death is human. the unknown is human. sickness is
human. insanity is human.

> we should have good art which shows people behaving at their best and
> good art which shows people at their worst.

(excuse me)
oh fuck you. what is "good art?" what is our best and worst? i can assure
you that your "best" is someone else's "worst." i've been studying art for
over 5 years and i still don't even know what the hell "art" really is!

> but people who drink blood and pop outta tv sets and
> walk on ceilings and fly and scare little kids???????????!!!!!
> that's hollywood at it's sick perverted uncreative and greedy worst.

that's every child's fairytale. that's dreams. that's the wonderful human
imagination. that's where religion begins and ends, you fool!
what's your idea of the ideal human life span, clay? to be born, grow up,
go to work, plant a tree, raise a familly, and die quietly? to never
qestion reality? to never dream? to love everyone while they shit on your
face? or is it to love life and death and change. to change the world
around you. there are millions of "nice" people who will be forgotten
long before people like hitler or atilla the hun or christ or ceaser.
good can only shine next to evil. we all need a dark side to overcome.
to say it is "dumb" is, well, dumb.
clay, i hope you were just trying to through some shit around, and that
you wen't really serious about the things you said. it's statements like
your's that i find trully horrifying. maybe i should make a movie out of
them....
[xaq]
ps. this will be my last post untill i can find something to say about moby.
maybe we could all try that?
"i think a lot, but it never helps me, so i stop.
                    but i really enjoy thinking."
                      Masafumi Sanai-photographer

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 17:11:04 +0000
From: clay <[e-mail]>
Subject: (mobility) Re: the anti clay

> "i think a lot, but it never helps me, so i stop.

for some reason xaq of shaq....now is that your name......?.....or is
that a costume you're wearing?
oh...i digress so quickly don't i?
but you use this same quote (above) every time you come
down off of your hill (is that olympus?) and though it is old...it is
also ...well....goofy.

in your post...you said you were a scholar (>scholor)
but i dare ask....don't scholars think or are you the exception?
maybe i don't ponder the actual concept of "thinking" enough to actually
quote japanese photograhers on the subject
but i have read and enjoyed enough
art, philosophy, politics, history, culture, poetry, erotica,
psychology, science, and astrology to know..... maybe one....maybe two
things.
and i know about kids who venture out on high horses.
but alas.....
it seems i hurt your feelings a while back when i (and others) ridiculed
your smarmy little anecdote about being stuck with a smelly person who
won't leave you alone>
poor joe college>
i am glad you like who you are.
i don't.......not now......
never did really but who knows?....maybe that can change because you
see.....
at least i've got you pissed off enough to come down and talk to us
peons
as you PUNISH me! (?) in front of well.....a handful, to say the least.
at least that would seem to be your mission
should you be willing to accept it>>>>>>
what you don't understand MR. XAQ
is that i would gladly invite everybody on this list to personally meet
me
AND YOU SIR
and to discuss this matter further over chips and dip
beer and a polka.
i'll give you my address but if i recall correctly you already have
that.
remember?
besides....i love a good party
with lively discussions and ALL!
so........>>>>>>>i write reviews sometimes
and share my opinions with others.
i'm not always polite or easy to swallow
but I AM NOT AFRAID to voice myself
and ya know what bro?
there are people who say things like

>
> ha ha ha ! Clay rocks!!!!!!!!!!<<

and numerous others who have asked me NOT to leave the list (privately)
because i do ACTUALLY know how to provoke a decent, if not thoughtful,
dialogue amongst the minions......
even if it means "taking a piss at things" (an english phrase)>
a-a-a-an-and i accept myself as part of that minion,
unlike you who (from the beginning)
have carried your lil boy lord fauntleroy
act precisely far enough to get you where you are today.
in front of ME and GOD and well...a handful of viewers.

so you didn't like my review?
gosh....i'm crushed like grapes and ready to be drunk!
sorry.
but i still i believe in L O V E
and that is why i share myself with all these good people HERE
every chance i get.....besides myself not having a life, of course.
NEVERTHELESS>>>>there are people who LOVE me xaq>  (ya dig?)
i've been beaten upon by nazis in the street for being a commie
and then turned upon and called a nazi by the same commies i was
defendin!
i've fought wars with women whom i've loved and found them later to be
my best friends.
i've walked with the devil and praised the wisdom of god with him....
and quite alone.
i have laughed and cried at the same time and i will die as i am born
again.
yes...xaq....you might say that i'm...clay is....as my friend syl puts
it....truly a nut-ass!

you've no idea....really.
but i'm glad you came down to say hi.
it was nice of you.
i won't even take your points one by one.
there really weren't any (except the f*** you was well put!).
oh...as for being 14....god..don't i wish!
better than 22 with a book and a sampler up your arse......there young
skywalker.
young clay reads at near college level (he's 13) and is an A student
so don't worry bout LiTerAzY round here sarge>
i'm glad your folks read you christmas stories LAST year
and so made you a real wonderful XAQ of a human being......
as opposed to a XAQ of some other crud.
would love to lunch and talk this over further with you
when you are REALLY ready to DEAL WITH CLAY.
and as you said
THIS MUST BE DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!
(cuff em dano)

good luck son.
godspeed and bless your heart.

but hey....seriously...no hard feelings.
it's sometimes how we become friends.



clay
evolution2000
silly


At first we cannot see beyond the path that leads downward to dark and
hateful things -  but no light or beauty will ever come from the man who
cannot bear this sight.
Light is always born of darkness, and the sun never
yet stood still in heaven to satisfy man's longing or to still his
fears.


MODERN MAN IN SEARCH OF A SOUL
~C. G. Jung

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 17:45:41 -0800 (PST)
From: BRIAN HOVEY <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) Re: the anti clay

If Clay were to leave this list it would be like loseing RYU again.
And i was the one who has written the little comments egging Clay
on...ha ha clay rocks.
Hey i call it like i see them. I think that clay gives this list a
fire that we need.Ive said enough.
Peace
Bri

Ps shaq attack or what ever your name is, this is a list to have fun
with which i think that you forget so offten now with this and the
whole puffy thing under your belt i cant wait to see what foul thing
comes out of your moth the next time you open it again.

Sorry......I reread the message again and got angry




- ---clay <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> > "i think a lot, but it never helps me, so i stop.
>
> for some reason xaq of shaq....now is that your name......?.....or is
> that a costume you're wearing?
> oh...i digress so quickly don't i?
> but you use this same quote (above) every time you come
> down off of your hill (is that olympus?) and though it is old...it is
> also ...well....goofy.
>
> in your post...you said you were a scholar (>scholor)
> but i dare ask....don't scholars think or are you the exception?
> maybe i don't ponder the actual concept of "thinking" enough to
actually
> quote japanese photograhers on the subject
> but i have read and enjoyed enough
> art, philosophy, politics, history, culture, poetry, erotica,
> psychology, science, and astrology to know..... maybe one....maybe
two
> things.
> and i know about kids who venture out on high horses.
> but alas.....
> it seems i hurt your feelings a while back when i (and others)
ridiculed
> your smarmy little anecdote about being stuck with a smelly person
who
> won't leave you alone>
> poor joe college>
> i am glad you like who you are.
> i don't.......not now......
> never did really but who knows?....maybe that can change because you
> see.....
> at least i've got you pissed off enough to come down and talk to us
> peons
> as you PUNISH me! (?) in front of well.....a handful, to say the
least.
> at least that would seem to be your mission
> should you be willing to accept it>>>>>>
> what you don't understand MR. XAQ
> is that i would gladly invite everybody on this list to personally
meet
> me
> AND YOU SIR
> and to discuss this matter further over chips and dip
> beer and a polka.
> i'll give you my address but if i recall correctly you already have
> that.
> remember?
> besides....i love a good party
> with lively discussions and ALL!
> so........>>>>>>>i write reviews sometimes
> and share my opinions with others.
> i'm not always polite or easy to swallow
> but I AM NOT AFRAID to voice myself
> and ya know what bro?
> there are people who say things like
>
> >
> > ha ha ha ! Clay rocks!!!!!!!!!!<<
>
> and numerous others who have asked me NOT to leave the list
(privately)
> because i do ACTUALLY know how to provoke a decent, if not thoughtful,
> dialogue amongst the minions......
> even if it means "taking a piss at things" (an english phrase)>
> a-a-a-an-and i accept myself as part of that minion,
> unlike you who (from the beginning)
> have carried your lil boy lord fauntleroy
> act precisely far enough to get you where you are today.
> in front of ME and GOD and well...a handful of viewers.
>
> so you didn't like my review?
> gosh....i'm crushed like grapes and ready to be drunk!
> sorry.
> but i still i believe in L O V E
> and that is why i share myself with all these good people HERE
> every chance i get.....besides myself not having a life, of course.
> NEVERTHELESS>>>>there are people who LOVE me xaq>  (ya dig?)
> i've been beaten upon by nazis in the street for being a commie
> and then turned upon and called a nazi by the same commies i was
> defendin!
> i've fought wars with women whom i've loved and found them later to
be
> my best friends.
> i've walked with the devil and praised the wisdom of god with him....
> and quite alone.
> i have laughed and cried at the same time and i will die as i am born
> again.
> yes...xaq....you might say that i'm...clay is....as my friend syl
puts
> it....truly a nut-ass!
>
> you've no idea....really.
> but i'm glad you came down to say hi.
> it was nice of you.
> i won't even take your points one by one.
> there really weren't any (except the f*** you was well put!).
> oh...as for being 14....god..don't i wish!
> better than 22 with a book and a sampler up your arse......there
young
> skywalker.
> young clay reads at near college level (he's 13) and is an A student
> so don't worry bout LiTerAzY round here sarge>
> i'm glad your folks read you christmas stories LAST year
> and so made you a real wonderful XAQ of a human being......
> as opposed to a XAQ of some other crud.
> would love to lunch and talk this over further with you
> when you are REALLY ready to DEAL WITH CLAY.
> and as you said
> THIS MUST BE DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!
> (cuff em dano)
>
> good luck son.
> godspeed and bless your heart.
>
> but hey....seriously...no hard feelings.
> it's sometimes how we become friends.
>
>
>
> clay
> evolution2000
> silly
>
>
> At first we cannot see beyond the path that leads downward to dark and
> hateful things -  but no light or beauty will ever come from the man
who
> cannot bear this sight.
> Light is always born of darkness, and the sun never
> yet stood still in heaven to satisfy man's longing or to still his
> fears.
>
>
> MODERN MAN IN SEARCH OF A SOUL
> ~C. G. Jung
>
>

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------------------------------

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