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mobility-digest       Saturday, December 5 1998       Volume 01 : Number 287



Re: (mobility) clay no-no
Re: (mobility) puffy no-no
(mobility) References: <[e-mail]>
Re: (mobility) puffy no-no
Re: (mobility) for BT fans
[Fwd: Subject: Re: (mobility) > clay wrote:  (bye)]
Re: (mobility) puffy no-no
(mobility) @@@@@@@american history x

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 23:41:31 +0000
From: clay <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) clay no-no

>  And as for my not knowing what it is, then please explain to me
> what "hip-hop" actually is.
>
>
hip-hop is a music......which had it's roots in ghetto playgrounds and
dancehalls
where various dj's would play music on records in sync with each other
to create new musical, rhythmic forms....previously unbeknowest to the
world.
incorporating musics by groups as diverse as germany's kraftwerk (an
early hip-hop favorite item to mix)
and parliament/funkadelic/old school jazz/ beethoven/rock and roll
new combinations of sounds were created and with that
came that poet/mc's who would talk/rap over the combinations of beats>

like ANY music some of this turned into some absolutely brilliant
experimentation and party music
and just like all music
some of it became very uncreative and oftentimes
violent, base, sexually offensive, and dangerous>
of course much of this was embraced by an industry who knows the
profitability
of sex and horror and violence>
unfortunately
this image often overshadowed
the positive voices of hip-hop.
in the creation of this msuic
america created it's counterpart to rock and roll
wherein a voice of a people without
the money and space for electric guitars drums etc
could make some noise get funky and
get with a fat beat>

and sometimes ya know
that's what it's all about>

everything else is just square dancing>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
i should probably publically apologize to chris and the list for my
previous comment
but ANYTIME ANYONE can
say ALL of any type of music is worthless
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>that is just so stupid>

you can't even tell many blacks that ALL country music sucks because
they will tell you
well...what about this and what about that
that stuff is fat
my ma and pa used to always play that.....etc.
or ALL classical sucks or ALL
metal sucks or
ALL those people over there suck
or any of that sort of thing.
at least my attack was personal>
and not just aimed at a whole huge phenomenon
that i can't even begin to comprehend!


forgive me father>


?


clay

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 11:50:19 +0000
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) puffy no-no

> Date:          Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:48:39 +0000
> From:          clay <[e-mail]>
> Organization:  evolution2000
> To:            [e-mail]
> Subject:       Re: (mobility) puffy no-no
> Reply-to:      [e-mail]

> chris bourke wrote>
>
> > but in general at worst they are unacceptable and at best they are not
> > worth my time.
> >
>
>
> chris>>>>>
>
>
>
>
>  clay wrote>
> you are a dick>
>
>
>
> clay
>
> Oh yeah that's a very mature and constructive comment.  That will diffuse the situation!!?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 12:02:49 +0000
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: (mobility) References: <[e-mail]>

> From:          Tim Beecher <[e-mail]>
> To:            [e-mail]
> Subject:       Re: (mobility) "techno" samples vs "hip hop" samples was:Moby News.
> Date:          Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:43:02 +0000
> Reply-to:      [e-mail]

> I think the story behind punk, hip-hop and rap are very
> similar. The Beastie Boys have married the two together
> brilliantly, in my opinion, (not that it counts for much
> here!).
>
> Like I've said before, if Moby were to collaborate it
> should be with the Beastie's.
> What about 'The Prodigy'?
> Happy Christmas and may communicate some more in the New
> Year!
>
> TMB
>
> ----------------------
> Tim Beecher
> Cranfield University
> [e-mail]
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 05:48:03 -0800 (PST)
From: BRIAN HOVEY <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) puffy no-no

ha ha ha ! Clay rocks!!!!!!!!!!




- ---clay <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> chris bourke wrote>
>
> > but in general at worst they are unacceptable and at best they are
not
> > worth my time.
> >
>
>
> chris>>>>>
>
>
>
>
>  clay wrote>
> you are a dick>
>
>
>
> clay
>
>

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 06:20:24 -0800 (PST)
From: BRIAN HOVEY <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) for BT fans

nice web site vince, but your BT link doesnt work!
this broke my heart, please fix the link, great page though!
Peace
Bri




- ---Vince Mora <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Apologies for the non-Moby post, but for the BT fans in the
> house: there is a mailing list dedicated to BT at
>
>      [e-mail]
>
> To my knowledge it is the only BT list on the Net.  Some good
> info floating around there, but I'm sure they could always use
> more members and input ...
>
>
> -      -      -     -     -    -    -   -   -  -  - - ---------------
> vince                                    http://www.vanishingson.com/
> --------------- - -  -  -   -   -    -    -     -     -      -      -
>
> communicate across barriers
>
>

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 08:44:08 +0000
From: clay <[e-mail]>
Subject: [Fwd: Subject: Re: (mobility) > clay wrote:  (bye)]

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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i am forwarding a letter damian sent to me
to the list
so you can see my last post
AND also see how our very distinguished and thoughtful
owner/moderator/operator has handled the situation>>>>>>>
(kudos to damian.......nuff said)

so maybe i won't unsub today


there's always tomorrow

i somehow feel i belong here
and yet..........................................somewhere else>


sorry for my name-calling
but i DO LET IT get personal>>>>>>>>>>>

it's who i am
it's what i do
it's who we are>>>>>>>>>>

quit hiding behind your bullshit>

if you don't know electronica
then don't blab about it>>>
if ya wanna know about it....... check it out....listen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>give it a whirl>
hip-hop
techno
trance
ambient
hardcore
happy
d-n-b
jungle
electro
goa
house
dub
acid
deep

it's all so fucking good
when you the find the good stuff>

and it's there>
more than you can swallow
and still never enough>

please>>>>>>>>>>>>shut up and listen
open your heart
your "thoughtful debate"
bites

the kids are the music
and the music is in our eyes


kiss the girl you love
and take it to the sky



i go in love
if i somehow didn't come in with it>



clay

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Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 06:07:28 -0700
From: Damian <[e-mail]>
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Subject: Subject: Re: (mobility) > clay wrote:  (bye)
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Hello Clay,

The message below bounced because it was caught in a filter.  I would of
normally forwarded this email to the list but you have requested to be
unsubscribed.  I won't do both.  Maybe you were a little hot under
the collar when writing this, so here's your chance to stop from being
unsubbed.  Even though we disagree on a few things, I'd miss your
contribution to the list!  But maybe it's not worthwhile to you.
I don't know.

So basically, I'm going to ignore this letter unless you really want to
be unsubbed... if so, write me back.  I'll take care of it.  Or if you
want to take care of it yourself, check the following address:

http://www.xmission.com/~damian/mobility.html

Take care, Damian.


> Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 00:07:00 +0000
> From: clay <[e-mail]>
> Organization: evolution2000
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: (mobility) > clay wrote:  (bye)
>
> > > clay wrote>
>
> please unsubscribe me from this list>
>
> it seems all-too-difficult to read some of the regular
> on-going puffy-shit (who cares??)
> especially from those without a clue......
> we all know puff bites....JEEEEEZ!!!!!!
> we get it!
> even after several requests to let the puffy THING DIE!!!!!!!
> it lives on and on and i'm not pissed that it's off-topic
> (I LIKE OFF_TOPIC SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
> it's just that it is so
> far from right-field and unaware
> and blah fuckin blah>
> commercialism sucks
> moby rules
> hip-hop sucks
> techno rules
> i've been here too long>>>>>>>>>maybe
>
> and if i can't just be cool about some of the crap i read then
> well i just shouldn't be reading it>
>
> have fun>
>
> clay
>
> e v o l u t i o n 2 0 0 0
>
> s    i    L    L    y
>
> by the way did you hear puffy puffy puffy>
> and oh chris don't like puffy



- --------------6A4744F8A81--

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 10:13:44 -0700
From: "Michaela Gerstner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) puffy no-no

OK.. i am really beginning to wonder what is going on here?  i thought we
got all this crap over with?  i thought that we were going to stop fighting
over useless stuff.. or at least save it for once a month.  i didn't have a
chance to respond to any of this earlier because of a faulty mail server,
but now it's working and now i'm responding.

everyone has different tastes in everything.  some like puffy, and some
don't.  personally, i don't care.  but i am not going to let that be the
judge of anyone on this list.  whether you like jazz, rock, muzak,
whatever... i'm happy for you!  you have found your happiness and i'm glad
about that.  what you like should not be the judge of you, but unfortunantly
humans are critical animals and feel they must judge to better themselves.

basically, what i'm saying is that people are entitled to like what they
want and should not be judged.  i listen to diverse types of music and am
very happy doing so.  all forms of music influence each other and should not
be put down.  without country and jazz and people like kenny g., all other
music would be different.  dj's would not have anything to mix or sample and
it would be a very depressing world if we only had one form of music.  so
stop this nonsense of dominating your tastes over others.  you should be
happy that everyone listens to something different because it brings
excitement to this list.  these last few posts, however, have not been
exciting but dumb.  i don't know whether this is holiday shopping stress or
what but it needs to stop.

and soapboxes aren't only for kids.. they're also for short people like me
to be seen and heard.  so, now i am stepping off my extra tall stack of
rickety soapboxes, where i had to stand to get over your bickering.

and george, where in FL is moby going to be?  i use to live there and i have
friends that love moby and would be interested in knowing.  any info. would
be great!
plovious

- -----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Michael Bourke <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Friday, December 04, 1998 9:53 PM
Subject: Re: (mobility) puffy no-no


>
>
>George N. Xanthopoulos:
>>excuse me? hate and fear are not healthy emotions? pray tell, what is a
>>healthy emotion? that seems like quite the arbitrary phrase. in my
>>opinion, an emotion cannot be healthy or unhealthy, it is the way we deal
>>with these emotions that makes us sane/insane, healthy/unhealthy, or
>>whatever other descriptive phrases we use. listening to nazi
>>nationalistic hymns can be very educational.. because the fact that you
>>say it evokes hatred through one listening proves that it is powerful
>>music. to chalk that sort of power to unimportant and untalented is, in a
>>sense, ignorant. we, as humans, must learn from our past--not avoid it.
>>experts of all sorts still analyze every part of nazi german aesthetic to
>>understand how it so well rallied germans together. how else could we
>>avoid a repeat?
>
>If we OBJECTIVELY study the effects of music, propaganda, sociology, then
>yes it does have a purpose.  My original intention in my statements was
that
>music creating these unhealthy emotions (hate, fear, etc.) WAS dangerous.
>hate inevitably leads to violence.  Fear inevitably leads to alienation.
In
>addition to the outward effects of negative emotions, they are inwardly
>detrimental to one's psychological well being.  As you said, when we allow
>music to overtake us and allow these emotions to manifest themselves in
>negative ways then we are doing a great disservice to ourselves and others.
>This is what I meant in my original post.  I was merely pointing out that
>not all music is good or has positive effects, the claim of the author I
was
>responding to.
>
>>on the other topic, you speak of kraftwerk and daft punk and tangerine
>>dream pre-dating hip-hop. however, i feel here that this is also in err.
>
>I didn't say that, I said that Moby predated Puffy and that the roots of
>electronic music could be found not in hip-hop but in those artists listed
>above.  Please re-read my original post.  If I was unclear, then I do
>apologize, but this is what I meant.
>
>>soul, jazz, blues, and even primitive tribal beats all contributed to the
>>roots of hip-hop. i truly believe that hip-hop has much deeper roots than
>>electronic--look at dj shadow who cites hip-hop as his number one
>>influence. he moves his albums personally when he visits record stores
>>from electronic to hip-hop because he thinks that that is where his beats
>>come from. this is a difficult discussion, however, in the sense that
>>music has such a varied history. you can look back to impressionistic
>>music and the general avant garde... these are all roots. how about
>>gospel and soul or even spoken word? what about the influence of culture?
>>hip-hop is clearly associated with a deep sense of culture. what exactly
>>is the culture of "electronica", as you call it--wallet chains,
>>glow-sticks, kickers, and dc shoes--oops, almost forgot plur! if that's
>>the case, i'd choose hip-hop any day.
>
>Sorry, but I've never had the "electronica experience" I couldn't comment
on
>the culture, I'm not a part of it. I merely listen to the music for its own
>value, not the culture surrounding it, if this is infact the case.
>
>As for the roots of music, yes, I agree it is very difficult to identify
>influences when styles become so homogonized that they become seemingly
>original.  And to a certain degree all american music has foundations in
the
>beat-rhythmn and jazz music.  Electronic owes to some degree credit to
>"black" roots.  My original statements were not meant to deny this, rather
>to deny that Moby or other electronic music(the groups listed included
>Orbital, Moby and others) were NOT influenced by Moby or the loads of crap
>that is coming out of "hip-hop" today.  Please, if you can demonstrate that
>they are, then do so.
>
>>soapboxes are for kids.
>
>No, Trix are for kids, and I'm not on a soap box, this seems to me to be a
>pretty good discussion/debate that we have here, through which we can both
>learn(hopefully).  What is wrong with that?
>
>>
>>let's just all have some fun in the process, shall we?
>>-gx
>
>Okay
>
>>i hope this does not sound too harsh... it WAS not intended to be taken
>>personally at all. i've just had a terrible day. honestly.
>
>Cheer up then.
>
>
>Steve Giles Wrote:
>>Hmmm... It's like saying that music is a bad thing because Puffy makes
>>music. If you're not willing to look underneath the surface (radio &
>MTV)and
>>see what's really out there, you can't say hip-hop/rap is crap. You don't
>>even know what it is. You only know a part of it that sells well. You
might
>>as well denounce rock 'n' roll for Marilyn Manson. Too simple and aimless.
>>Music isn't merely black/white, it's the entire color spectrum. There are
>no
>>absolutes like 'hip-hop sucks'.
>
>What I meant with my generalization was the radio/mainstream/MTV hip-hop
>crap  certainly, from your message you would agree to this.  I think it's
>justified.  And as for my not knowing what it is, then please explain to me
>what "hip-hop" actually is.
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 20:39:49 +0000
From: clay <[e-mail]>
Subject: (mobility) @@@@@@@american history x

i saw american history x with my son tonight.
this is my review:


from the beginning, one quickly realizes <american history x> is
a story which provides no time to slowly get into your characters,
their environment, or their situations.
from the outset, danger lurks on the streets
and violence not only threatens to,
but indeed does, erupt in the streets.
like <in cold blood> and <face off> we
witness a crime as an opener.
and more than one.
thusly we are thrust into a world of vengeance, pride, and avarice.
racism and religion mix with fear and anger
and the streets of venice, california
become a hotbed for underclass frustrations, both black and white.
the story is of two brothers who fall into neo-nazi
fanaticism as a result of their
paternal teachings and the subsequent death of their father.
the story is simple to follow and believable.
at times, the dialogue seems heavily didactic
and yet moves along well enough, rewarding the viewer
with the subsequent violence that such dramatic philosophies
inevitably lead to.
stacy keach is perfect as the founder/benefactor of the
skinhead organization. his evil charisma oozes through
the celluloid as he projects his very real agenda onto the streets and
basketball courts of a quaint california beach city.
elliot gould is a natural as a liberal jewish teacher dating the boys'
mother.
edward norton is gripping as a skinhead who amazingly transforms his
racist outlook during his prison sentence.
in fact, this is the one difficult equation of the film, for me to
handle.
that is, in that i have never known any person of a truly racist
tendency to ever come out of jail
less racist than when he went in.
it has always seemed that prison reinforces the hateful nature of
racial differences, as it only reflects the very worst of what our
society can offer.
but let us imagine the exception, and <american history x> does.
the music is done by anne dudley (art of noise)
and is used quite sparingly and to the utmost effect>

but of all the qualities this film brings to bear,
it is young edward furlong's performance who astonishes you by
truly capturing the nihilistic
angst, fear, pride, and disaffected attitude
of a frightened and fearless 90's american youth.
this is a story of rage and reaction.
it is a story of love and misery.
it is a story of life and death in a country
where we're all still learning how to get real.
it is a story of the history we write together ....tonight
and tomorrow

at one point, the older brother, derek, tells the younger, dan:
"i'm just so tired of being pissed off...."


let us hope the lessons such a film offers
are not too late for our kids.
and from what the boys spending the night here, tonight, are saying,
maybe it's not.



clay  12/5/98

------------------------------

End of mobility-digest V1 #287
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