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mobility-digest        Friday, December 4 1998        Volume 01 : Number 286



Re: (mobility) puffy no-no
Re: (mobility) puffy no-no
(mobility) Got my Honey!!
RE: (mobility) Got my Honey!!
Re: (mobility) puffy no-no
Re: (mobility) puffy no-no
Re: (mobility) Got my Honey!!
Re: (mobility) puffy no-no
Re: (mobility) puffy no-no
(mobility) sorry for the multiple post..
(mobility) :bt> let there be light
(mobility) bt remixes
Re: (mobility) puffy no-no
(mobility) vocal majority
(mobility) for BT fans
Re: (mobility) puffy no-no

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:07:52 -0500 (EST)
From: "George N. Xanthopoulos" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) puffy no-no

excuse me? hate and fear are not healthy emotions? pray tell, what is a
healthy emotion? that seems like quite the arbitrary phrase. in my
opinion, an emotion cannot be healthy or unhealthy, it is the way we deal
with these emotions that makes us sane/insane, healthy/unhealthy, or
whatever other descriptive phrases we use. listening to nazi
nationalistic hymns can be very educational.. because the fact that you
say it evokes hatred through one listening proves that it is powerful
music. to chalk that sort of power to unimportant and untalented is, in a
sense, ignorant. we, as humans, must learn from our past--not avoid it.
experts of all sorts still analyze every part of nazi german aesthetic to
understand how it so well rallied germans together. how else could we
avoid a repeat?

on the other topic, you speak of kraftwerk and daft punk and tangerine
dream pre-dating hip-hop. however, i feel here that this is also in err.
soul, jazz, blues, and even primitive tribal beats all contributed to the
roots of hip-hop. i truly believe that hip-hop has much deeper roots than
electronic--look at dj shadow who cites hip-hop as his number one
influence. he moves his albums personally when he visits record stores
from electronic to hip-hop because he thinks that that is where his beats
come from. this is a difficult discussion, however, in the sense that
music has such a varied history. you can look back to impressionistic
music and the general avant garde... these are all roots. how about
gospel and soul or even spoken word? what about the influence of culture?
hip-hop is clearly associated with a deep sense of culture. what exactly
is the culture of "electronica", as you call it--wallet chains,
glow-sticks, kickers, and dc shoes--oops, almost forgot plur! if that's
the case, i'd choose hip-hop any day.

oh, and daft punk as an originator of electronic? excuse me? take a look
back to klf, the orb, or liam of prodigy, dear... or better yet, what
about first generation hip-hop in the late 60s and 70s or psychic tv and
its precursors.

let's not scream and shout at each other and say what we
SHOULD do until we know all the facts. soapboxes are for kids.


let's just all have some fun in the process, shall we?
- -gx

i hope this does not sound too harsh... it WAS not intended to be taken
personally at all. i've just had a terrible day. honestly.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 15:30:18 -0600
From: Philip Johnson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) puffy no-no

if soap boxes are for kids then why are you on one?

just a thought..PJ808

George N. Xanthopoulos wrote:

> . soapboxes are for kids.
>
> -gx
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 15:50:38 -0600
From: Philip Johnson <[e-mail]>
Subject: (mobility) Got my Honey!!

Went to a local record store today to do some poking around..lo and
behold I saw the Great Pumpkin!!  I managed to get my own personal copy
of Honey!!!  I really like it a lot.  It has the Rollo & Sister Bliss,
Sharam Jey, and the Low Side mix..can't wait to spin it with some of my
other stuff..  It also came with a little insert to get on a moby
mailing list through DEF..kinda cool..
It cost me 14 bucks but well worth it...They were playing EIW at another
store I went to.  Kind of a cool day..
Now..if we could get all of this bickering off the list, then life would
be perfect..not everyone has to like what everyone else likes..if fred
likes puffy and salli likes tricky, who cares?  Love in Christ..
PJ808
suprasized :-)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:17:07 -0500
From: Steve Giles <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (mobility) Got my Honey!!

>>It also came with a little insert to get on a moby
>>mailing list through DEF..kinda cool..

Curious. I got one without that card. If they're doing a specially priced
import for the record, too, that would explain it. After all, the 12" I
bought is packaged like a US release. Thick whiteboard, opens on the right,
paper sleeve around the record. The promos were in those thin plasticoat
sleeves, and they opened on the top. If you got the regular (no special
price) import ($14 sounds right) and I got the special price one (mine was
$7)then that would explain these small, insignificant differences.

Hmmm... It's like saying that music is a bad thing because Puffy makes
music. If you're not willing to look underneath the surface (radio & MTV)and
see what's really out there, you can't say hip-hop/rap is crap. You don't
even know what it is. You only know a part of it that sells well. You might
as well denounce rock 'n' roll for Marilyn Manson. Too simple and aimless.
Music isn't merely black/white, it's the entire color spectrum. There are no
absolutes like 'hip-hop sucks'.

I received Joy Division's 1CD best of, called Permanent, yesterday. In the
liner notes Moby and Reznor are mentioned for doing covers of Joy Division.
They're described as 'prolific musicians' or something close. Afterwards it
also said that J.O. Barr was the only one who came close to capturing the
'beauty of ugliness' as Joy Division did. (referring to The Crow)

Are you an active fan or a passive one? I know whenever I go to the music
store (be it online or realworld) I always check out the Moby selections.
Are you buying Moby stuff, or just listening to what you have now? How many
are the vinyl people here? Speak up! I ask because I mentioned several cool
records for sale at ebay the other day and nobody has bid on any of them.
There about 10 records and an equal number of CDs. Some bargains, some
ripoffs, but worth a glance at least.

- -Steve



























Ok, so you made it this far. Good for you. Remember that old token 'Ask and
you shall receive'? Ask for Animal Rights Live next time you order from DEF.
You have to ask, though. Hello, digesters! You'll see this regardless. Now
that I've mentioned this I'd better order before they run out...mail me for
DEF's current stocklist.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 06:23:14 +0800 (SGT)
From: BRIAN HOVEY <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) puffy no-no

Im sorry but all music deserves a fair listen. If you dont like it
dont listen. Man why is the mind like a trap some times? And by the
way it was Hip Hop that has inspired not puffy!
Peace
Bri




- ---Chris Bourke <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> > Fine!! It is I that you should blam than. Or should you???? You see
> > this thing that we listen to with our ears is called music. Some of
> > this music is harsh or nasty...or just would rather have your ass
move
> > to it. I dont think that any music should recieve scorn or hate
> > towards it, this is a power that can draw out every emotion in us
that
> > it should be respected not trashed.
>
>
> What if the emotion that it draws out of us is Hate?  Violence?  Fear?
> These are not healthy emotions and we should not let music create
them in
> us.  Music that does tend to do this SHOULD recieve scorn.  Unless you
> think that Nazi Nationalistic Hymhs should recieve just as much ear
time
> as Moby or more substanative artists.  Though less extreme,
> "Hip-Hoppers" create the same standards - Theievery, murder,
irreverent
> and violent sex.  Take away these characteristics and there are many
> decent artists left, not all hip-hop(whatever that means) artists
are bad,
> but in general at worst they are unacceptable and at best they are not
> worth my time.
>
>
>
> > Next did you know that even though you may not like puffy, his
type of
> > music(hip-hop), inspired our beloved creator and others like BT,
> > Orbital, Meat Beat, ect.
>
> Excuse me?  I believe Orbital and even Moby were recording long before
> Puffy got any air play at all.  Roots of "electronica"(for lack of a
> better word, sorry word haters ^_^) are better described in pioneering
> groups such as Tangerine Dream or Daft Punk or Kraftwerk.
>
> I don't see how any hip-hopper has "inspired" Moby or any other
electronic
> artist.  If you can explain yourself better, then please do.
>
> > I could go on  and  on but i think that todays lesson is over.
Dont be
> > so hard on music please.
> > Peace
> > Bri
>
> I'm not hard on Music, I'm hard on poor music
>
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:30:10 -0500 (EST)
From: "George N. Xanthopoulos" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) puffy no-no

...because the only way to respond to one soap-box is to set-up your own.

at any rate, i did not mean to preach. i just intended to point out that
it's a lot harder to determine the roots and influences of certain music
than it may seem (let alone trying to figure out which music came first).



have fun-gx

btw: all you kids in florida--moby will be headlining a huge rave down
there come mid-december. i believe the 17th, i may be wrong. i'll try and
dig up more information on it. let's hope all these sporadic shows he's
doing will get him a label, so we all of us poor kids can afford his next
album, eh?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 17:15:43 -0600
From: Philip Johnson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) Got my Honey!!

My version doesn't open up...and didn't include any promos..Just a cool looking
pumpkin on the front..reminds me of an uncle I had..and three pix of the ever
balding Moby on the back...and a little sticker that says "Made in England"
The addy for the newsletter is: Moby
                                               c/o DEF
                                               P.O. Box 2477
                                               London NW6 6NQ, UK
or email [e-mail] with "subscribe moby" in the subject line..
have great weekend..lucky me gets to work..
as always...
PJ808
np: Skinny Puppies "Last Rights"
the origional hippety hoppetty rapppettyy playazzzzzzz...j/k folks!!
I enjoy rap, hip hop, and r&b on a rare occasion..just too much to listen to and
so little time :-)

Steve Giles wrote:

> >>It also came with a little insert to get on a moby
> >>mailing list through DEF..kinda cool..
>
> Curious. I got one without that card. If they're doing a specially priced
> import for the record, too, that would explain it. After all, the 12" I
> bought is packaged like a US release. Thick whiteboard, opens on the right,
> paper sleeve around the record. The promos were in those thin plasticoat
> sleeves, and they opened on the top. If you got the regular (no special
> price) import ($14 sounds right) and I got the special price one (mine was
> $7)then that would explain these small, insignificant differences.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 19:26:40 -0600
From: Philip Johnson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) puffy no-no

I agree with ya George..why does it really matter where the music influences
come from?  I like Moby because the music he makes moves me..I like any type
of music that moves me..It just so happens that there isn't much hip hop or
r&b music that moves me..but some people, like my girlfriend, love that type
of music..not a big deal to me..it helps to have an open mind :-)
btw-she did like the Rollo Sisters mix of Honey..
Where at in FL is this huge rave?  I used to live in Pensacola..miss it
greatly..laters..PJ808

George N. Xanthopoulos wrote:

> ...because the only way to respond to one soap-box is to set-up your own.
>
> at any rate, i did not mean to preach. i just intended to point out that
> it's a lot harder to determine the roots and influences of certain music
> than it may seem (let alone trying to figure out which music came first).
>
> have fun-gx
>
> btw: all you kids in florida--moby will be headlining a huge rave down
> there come mid-december. i believe the 17th, i may be wrong. i'll try and
> dig up more information on it. let's hope all these sporadic shows he's
> doing will get him a label, so we all of us poor kids can afford his next
> album, eh?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 19:27:27 -0600
From: Philip Johnson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) puffy no-no

I agree with ya George..why does it really matter where the music influences
come from?  I like Moby because the music he makes moves me..I like any type
of music that moves me..It just so happens that there isn't much hip hop or
r&b music that moves me..but some people, like my girlfriend, love that type
of music..not a big deal to me..it helps to have an open mind :-)
btw-she did like the Rollo and Sister Bliss mix of Honey..
Where at in FL is this huge rave?  I used to live in Pensacola..miss it
greatly..laters..PJ808

George N. Xanthopoulos wrote:

> ...because the only way to respond to one soap-box is to set-up your own.
>
> at any rate, i did not mean to preach. i just intended to point out that
> it's a lot harder to determine the roots and influences of certain music
> than it may seem (let alone trying to figure out which music came first).
>
> have fun-gx
>
> btw: all you kids in florida--moby will be headlining a huge rave down
> there come mid-december. i believe the 17th, i may be wrong. i'll try and
> dig up more information on it. let's hope all these sporadic shows he's
> doing will get him a label, so we all of us poor kids can afford his next
> album, eh?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 19:32:38 -0600
From: Philip Johnson <[e-mail]>
Subject: (mobility) sorry for the multiple post..

had to correct the sister bliss part :-)

g-day to ya
PJ808
np:Front 242..Mutage Mixage

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 18:06:28 +0000
From: clay <[e-mail]>
Subject: (mobility) :bt> let there be light

don't forget bt's remixes of let there be light by mike oldfield
double 12" with mixes by hardfloor as well>
this was the single that really put him on the map>


clay

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 18:08:17 +0000
From: clay <[e-mail]>
Subject: (mobility) bt remixes

and bt and sasha's remix of madonna's drowned world and what was the
lenny kravitz remix he did which was supposed to be pretty good....?

clay

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 18:48:39 +0000
From: clay <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) puffy no-no

chris bourke wrote>

> but in general at worst they are unacceptable and at best they are not
> worth my time.
>


chris>>>>>




 clay wrote>
you are a dick>



clay

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 18:56:06 +0000
From: clay <[e-mail]>
Subject: (mobility) vocal majority

> Now..if we could get all of this bickering off the list, then life would
> be perfect..not everyone has to like what everyone else likes..


oh!?

were someone bickkkkering?

life would be purrrrrrfect if we all agreed on evvvveryyyything?

well....here here...then..... i agree!!!!!!
can't we all just get along?
the vocal majority is neither.
cheerios>
clay

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 20:04:21 -0700 (MST)
From: "Vince Mora" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (mobility) for BT fans

Hi all,

Apologies for the non-Moby post, but for the BT fans in the
house: there is a mailing list dedicated to BT at

     [e-mail]

To my knowledge it is the only BT list on the Net.  Some good
info floating around there, but I'm sure they could always use
more members and input ...


- -      -      -     -     -    -    -   -   -  -  - - ---------------
vince                                    http://www.vanishingson.com/
- --------------- - -  -  -   -   -    -    -     -     -      -      -

communicate across barriers

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 22:52:24 -0600
From: Christopher Michael Bourke <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) puffy no-no

George N. Xanthopoulos:
>excuse me? hate and fear are not healthy emotions? pray tell, what is a
>healthy emotion? that seems like quite the arbitrary phrase. in my
>opinion, an emotion cannot be healthy or unhealthy, it is the way we deal
>with these emotions that makes us sane/insane, healthy/unhealthy, or
>whatever other descriptive phrases we use. listening to nazi
>nationalistic hymns can be very educational.. because the fact that you
>say it evokes hatred through one listening proves that it is powerful
>music. to chalk that sort of power to unimportant and untalented is, in a
>sense, ignorant. we, as humans, must learn from our past--not avoid it.
>experts of all sorts still analyze every part of nazi german aesthetic to
>understand how it so well rallied germans together. how else could we
>avoid a repeat?

If we OBJECTIVELY study the effects of music, propaganda, sociology, then
yes it does have a purpose.  My original intention in my statements was that
music creating these unhealthy emotions (hate, fear, etc.) WAS dangerous.
hate inevitably leads to violence.  Fear inevitably leads to alienation.  In
addition to the outward effects of negative emotions, they are inwardly
detrimental to one's psychological well being.  As you said, when we allow
music to overtake us and allow these emotions to manifest themselves in
negative ways then we are doing a great disservice to ourselves and others.
This is what I meant in my original post.  I was merely pointing out that
not all music is good or has positive effects, the claim of the author I was
responding to.

>on the other topic, you speak of kraftwerk and daft punk and tangerine
>dream pre-dating hip-hop. however, i feel here that this is also in err.

I didn't say that, I said that Moby predated Puffy and that the roots of
electronic music could be found not in hip-hop but in those artists listed
above.  Please re-read my original post.  If I was unclear, then I do
apologize, but this is what I meant.

>soul, jazz, blues, and even primitive tribal beats all contributed to the
>roots of hip-hop. i truly believe that hip-hop has much deeper roots than
>electronic--look at dj shadow who cites hip-hop as his number one
>influence. he moves his albums personally when he visits record stores
>from electronic to hip-hop because he thinks that that is where his beats
>come from. this is a difficult discussion, however, in the sense that
>music has such a varied history. you can look back to impressionistic
>music and the general avant garde... these are all roots. how about
>gospel and soul or even spoken word? what about the influence of culture?
>hip-hop is clearly associated with a deep sense of culture. what exactly
>is the culture of "electronica", as you call it--wallet chains,
>glow-sticks, kickers, and dc shoes--oops, almost forgot plur! if that's
>the case, i'd choose hip-hop any day.

Sorry, but I've never had the "electronica experience" I couldn't comment on
the culture, I'm not a part of it. I merely listen to the music for its own
value, not the culture surrounding it, if this is infact the case.

As for the roots of music, yes, I agree it is very difficult to identify
influences when styles become so homogonized that they become seemingly
original.  And to a certain degree all american music has foundations in the
beat-rhythmn and jazz music.  Electronic owes to some degree credit to
"black" roots.  My original statements were not meant to deny this, rather
to deny that Moby or other electronic music(the groups listed included
Orbital, Moby and others) were NOT influenced by Moby or the loads of crap
that is coming out of "hip-hop" today.  Please, if you can demonstrate that
they are, then do so.

>soapboxes are for kids.

No, Trix are for kids, and I'm not on a soap box, this seems to me to be a
pretty good discussion/debate that we have here, through which we can both
learn(hopefully).  What is wrong with that?

>
>let's just all have some fun in the process, shall we?
>-gx

Okay

>i hope this does not sound too harsh... it WAS not intended to be taken
>personally at all. i've just had a terrible day. honestly.

Cheer up then.


Steve Giles Wrote:
>Hmmm... It's like saying that music is a bad thing because Puffy makes
>music. If you're not willing to look underneath the surface (radio &
MTV)and
>see what's really out there, you can't say hip-hop/rap is crap. You don't
>even know what it is. You only know a part of it that sells well. You might
>as well denounce rock 'n' roll for Marilyn Manson. Too simple and aimless.
>Music isn't merely black/white, it's the entire color spectrum. There are
no
>absolutes like 'hip-hop sucks'.

What I meant with my generalization was the radio/mainstream/MTV hip-hop
crap  certainly, from your message you would agree to this.  I think it's
justified.  And as for my not knowing what it is, then please explain to me
what "hip-hop" actually is.

------------------------------

End of mobility-digest V1 #286
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