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mobility-digest          Sunday, June 7 1998          Volume 01 : Number 175



(mobility) Odd little Moby record...
Re: (mobility) Re: mobility-digest V1 #164
(mobility) Sampling
Re: (mobility) Sampling
Re: (mobility) Sampling
Re: (mobility) Sampling
Re: (mobility) Sampling
Re: (mobility) Sampling
RE: Small Word (was: (mobility) Stinkweeds )
(mobility) Re: but ah......more samples!
Re: (mobility) Sampling
(mobility) Re: blue light of the underwater sun
Re: (mobility) Sampling

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 18:59:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tallis Frazier <[e-mail]>
Subject: (mobility) Odd little Moby record...

I just received a record from _really_ nice seller and unfortunately,
my player is on the fritz! Sooo, I was wondering if anyone else has
ever heard Moby's Hymn Menacing/Dirty Hypo/Lucky Orgasm/I Believe
mixes. If anyone has, please feel free to make any comments and critics.

                                  Thank you kindly,
      Tallis (your friendly neighborhood digest lurker)




_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 21:53:26 -0500 (CDT)
From: Christopher Michael Bourke <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) Re: mobility-digest V1 #164

On Sun, 24 May 1998, kimberly wrote:

> > Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 18:16:22 -0700
> > From: Dan Legare <[e-mail]>
> > Subject: (mobility) twin freak
> >
> > actually, go was inspired or inspired 'laura palmer's theme'. i think doing
> > anything to the beautiful yet haunting twin peaks theme (with vocals by
> > julee cruise makes it 'falling') would be sacriledge. some things are just
> > meant to be left alone.
>
> Yeah, I've read that before.  I hear that he colaborated with the producer
> of Twin Peaks or something to that effect.  I think it ended up as great
> work on Moby's part though.  It's a very interpretation I think.
>
I HAVE to answer this one, As a fan of David Lynch's (The greatest
director in history) I must set this one straight.  Ever Since Lynch's
first film, Eraserhead He and Angelo Badalamenti have collaborated on both
sounds and score for Lynch's work.  The pilot movie and series only gives
credit to Badalamenti but I Like to Score gives credit to both Lynch and
Angelo.  Move did NOT inspire the score to Twin Peaks, rather TWIN
PEAKS(Laura Palmers Theme) was SAMPLED by Moby to use in Move.  Move was
inspired BY Twin Peaks not the other way around.  Moby is a great artist,
but please give credit where credit is due.

Ususally I HATE flagrant sampling (ie Puff Daddy "I'm unoriginal" Combs).
In this case though it is forgivable because the sample does not stand out
as obvjiously as Puffy's samlping.

Who else here hates sampling?  Do you think it is okay and in what
circumstances?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 21:32:36 -0700
From: "Dr. Killpatient" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (mobility) Sampling

Christopher Michael Bourke wrote:
>
> On Sun, 24 May 1998, kimberly wrote:
>
> > > Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 18:16:22 -0700
> > > From: Dan Legare <[e-mail]>
> > > Subject: (mobility) twin freak
> > >
> > > actually, go was inspired or inspired 'laura palmer's theme'. i think doing
> > > anything to the beautiful yet haunting twin peaks theme (with vocals by
> > > julee cruise makes it 'falling') would be sacriledge. some things are just
> > > meant to be left alone.
> >
> > Yeah, I've read that before.  I hear that he colaborated with the producer
> > of Twin Peaks or something to that effect.  I think it ended up as great
> > work on Moby's part though.  It's a very interpretation I think.
> >
> I HAVE to answer this one, As a fan of David Lynch's (The greatest
> director in history) I must set this one straight.  Ever Since Lynch's
> first film, Eraserhead He and Angelo Badalamenti have collaborated on both
> sounds and score for Lynch's work.  The pilot movie and series only gives
> credit to Badalamenti but I Like to Score gives credit to both Lynch and
> Angelo.  Move did NOT inspire the score to Twin Peaks, rather TWIN
> PEAKS(Laura Palmers Theme) was SAMPLED by Moby to use in Move.  Move was
> inspired BY Twin Peaks not the other way around.  Moby is a great artist,
> but please give credit where credit is due.

I don't know who it was that said Laura Palmer's theme was inspired
by Go!- but I never remember hearing that. And it is Go! we are talking
about here- not 'Move'. As far as what I think of Moby sampling it,
I think it's fine with me. It works quite well, and he gives credit
where it is due because Moby is a humble man.

>
> Ususally I HATE flagrant sampling (ie Puff Daddy "I'm unoriginal" Combs).
> In this case though it is forgivable because the sample does not stand out
> as obvjiously as Puffy's samlping.
>
> Who else here hates sampling?  Do you think it is okay and in what
> circumstances?

There is a big difference between using loops of sampled music
and using samples in your music, I think sampling music to use
in your own music is very un-original, but I love all other types
of samples. Moby seems to be very fond of diva samples, but I would
guess that he makes new samples in the studio, instead of ripping
them off other releases. What would the Orb sound like without any
samples? Not quite the same thing anymore- samples are fun when they
are used in a different way than they origianlly were used for.
But things like Vanilla Ice and MC Hammer, where the loop is actually
the main melody of the song...they should be considered cover songs
rather than originals, even with the new lyrics they really owe it
all the the original song.
paul

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 00:01:11 -0500
From: "Dennis Daniels" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) Sampling


    I agree. I don't mind sampling-in a lot of cases it adds something to
the song-but if someone (Hammer, Vanilla Ice, etc.) samples something over
and over it gets old fast. Vanilla Ice never did a song without sampling
something, did he? He might've after he became the "pot-smoking junkie
wannabe", but he was unoriginal. Puffy may be hard working and decent, but
his downfall is his constant sampling. He can't do anything without it. A
good example of oversampling (IMHO) is Orbital's "Halcyon". It gets pretty
old, actually. However, someone like DJ Shadow who doesn't oversample is
pure genius. Moby samples, but not near as much as other artists. Fatboy
Slim, too.
          Another question, though, are we talking about sampling music,
voices, or both? Voices doesn't bother me, but if someone samples too much
music, it gets annoying. "I'll Be Missing You" would've sounded totally
different if Puffy wouldn't have used the same bass line over and over
again and ripped off the song. I'm surprised Sting sang with him at the
music awards awhile back, actually. If I were Sting, i would've been
pissed. Puffy's not bad, but he needs to tone down his sampling. Groups
like the Chemical Brothers, who sample mostly voices, doesn't get near that
bad. Look at "Going Out Of My Head" by Fatboy Slim. It samples mostly the
same stuff over and over again, but still manages to not get on my nerves.
He knows how to sample. Puffy can puff on this unless he starts making real
music. (Even though I did defend him a while back.)

       d.


- ----------
There is a big difference between using loops of sampled music
and using samples in your music, I think sampling music to use
in your own music is very un-original, but I love all other types
of samples. Moby seems to be very fond of diva samples, but I would
guess that he makes new samples in the studio, instead of ripping
them off other releases. What would the Orb sound like without any
samples? Not quite the same thing anymore- samples are fun when they
are used in a different way than they origianlly were used for.
But things like Vanilla Ice and MC Hammer, where the loop is actually
the main melody of the song...they should be considered cover songs
rather than originals, even with the new lyrics they really owe it
all the the original song.

      paul

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 22:10:37 -0700
From: "Dr. Killpatient" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) Sampling

Dennis Daniels wrote:
>
>
>     I agree. I don't mind sampling-in a lot of cases it adds something to
> the song-but if someone (Hammer, Vanilla Ice, etc.) samples something over
> and over it gets old fast. Vanilla Ice never did a song without sampling
> something, did he?

Only his biggest hit song! The 'Ice Ice baby' one...whatever it was.
He uses the loop from the David Bowie/Queen song 'Under Pressure'.
I mentioned it because I liked the original song and he ruined it!!!
paul

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 07 Jun 1998 01:10:11 -0500
From: Ade <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) Sampling

>A good example of oversampling (IMHO) is Orbital's "Halcyon".

Really?  I love that song (IMHO as well).  I think it actually uses
sampling in a pretty creative way--I like the way they mix the two samples
together, etc.

I'm not necessarily an avid fan of songs that use sampling, but I don't
think they always bother me.  If someone is just ripping off a song and
does nothing but change the lyrics, then that's not that artistic.  But a
lot of songs use samples in pretty artistic ways that results in a great
new piece.  I don't think a song should be criticised /just because/ it
uses samples.  If it's a good song, it should be hailed as a good song.  I
agree though, that credit should definately be given to the source of the
sample as well.

np: Empirion, "Narcotic Influence 1"  (giving them drugs are taking their
lives away).


.oooO  Oooo.   --Ade.
(   )  (   )
 \ (    ) /    [e-mail]
  \_)  (_/     http://picard.anderson.edu/~adekunle

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 07 Jun 1998 09:29:13 +0100
From: Stuart Adair <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) Sampling

>A good example of oversampling (IMHO) is Orbital's "Halcyon".

Um, how exactly is Halcyon an example of oversampling? Ok, so the sample
(from Opus III's It's a Fine Day) is repeated a lot, but it's been cut up,
reversed, and generally messed about with... unless you mean the live
version (with the Bon Jovi and Belinda Carlisle samples), but that's just a
bit of fun, isn't it? :)

~~stu

_____________________
\  .:stuart adair:. /____:dubstar:moby::scrawn&lard:eddieizzard:|breakyourhe
//\/[e-mail]_ \_________ :bigbeat:interactivefiction:|artbreakyou
\\ [e-mail]__) :terrypratchett::drum&bass:|rfacenottha
/ \/\ the final days of c floor (__=A0=
 /\=A0:zxspectrum::fatboyslim:|tmuchtolook
\___/=A0http://cfloor.home.ml.org ___)/_/\ :quake:kenickie::frenzi|atanyway =
- -k

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 04:34:02 -0500 (CDT)
From: Bill Tatalovich <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) Sampling

> However, someone like DJ Shadow who doesn't oversample is
> pure genius. Moby samples, but not near as much as other artists.

Here here.  I do believe that DJ Shadow's sampling is by far some of the
best I've heard out there (admittedly, that's not too much).  Then again,
DJ Shadow uses a lot of samples of old soul/funk music that no one seems
to know about...an unknown sample tends to fly farther.

> Groups
> like the Chemical Brothers, who sample mostly voices, doesn't get near that
> bad. Look at "Going Out Of My Head" by Fatboy Slim. It samples mostly the
> same stuff over and over again, but still manages to not get on my nerves.

I once heard that the Chemical Brothers used some obscene amount of
samples on their albums.  In the thousands.  I found that hard to believe,
but who knows?

And I think the reason why Fatboy Slim, and Moby for that matter, sample
so that it doesn't get on people's nerves, is that their music builds on
itself.  Unlike some shit techno out there, and Puffy as well, good
samplers use what they sample as a basis for something.  The music itself
is constantly changing, constantly flowing, and the result is much more
pleasing, in my experience.  I mean, look at the second disc to BT's _Ima_
double disc.  The whole "Blue Skies" segued into the next track (and the
next, if I remember correctly, making for a grand total of about 50-60
minutes straight of music) builds and releases.  That's where sampling
should go...not to a verbatim playing of the original song.

Just my two cents...I know much less about this than I think I do,

Bill Tatalovich
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 11:36:34 -0500
From: "Brad Caviness" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Small Word (was: (mobility) Stinkweeds )

> -----Original Message-----
> From: kimberly
> I went to Stinkweeds last night for a small show.  The bands were
> 'Frodus' and 'BlueBird'.
>
Sorry for the non-Moby bandwidth, but I have to say, What a small world we
live in. I just saw Frodus, Bluebird and Bark last sunday night at a "free"
show in Riverfront Park in Little Rock, Ark. Did they do the thing where
they both set up to play at once and then traded off playing songs? I loved
it when the guy from Bluebird went running around the place with a bullhorn
screaming: "Frodus Conglomerate International!!" For those of you who don't
know, those bands are a bunch of emo kids, bands that marry freeform
melodies, extreme grunge dynamics (alternating soft and loud passages in a
song) and hardcore intensity.

> I found the 'Everytime you touch me' single.  I love it!  I was very
> saddened by the second song 'Blue light of the underwater sun'. I was
> getting all into it, not even suspecting how it the spoken word part
> would end.  Was any one else scared when they first heard that song????
> Any one feel my pain?
>
I wasn't scared. Agitated, excited, moved beyond words. Seriously, I tracked
down the import ETYTM single last year when the last round of raves about
"Blue Light" went through the list, and it instantly became one of my
favorite cuts. It is a quitessential Moby cut. The spiritual/ecological
center the techno/rock combo (that has since become one of Moby's
trademarks) and the perfect balance of the song makes me wonder why he used
it just for a bside when it probably would have made EIW a better record
than it already was.

BSC

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 07 Jun 1998 16:00:26 +0000
From: clayEV2k <[e-mail]>
Subject: (mobility) Re: but ah......more samples!

> Who else here hates sampling?  Do you think it is okay and in what
> circumstances?


sampling is a bit like science or some good art in that if you can use
it to build something even greaater and more unique or useful in ways
then
BY ALL MEANS DO IT!
like when warhol in the sixties took (sampled) the campbell's soup cans
and used it to create something rather (?) interesting>
however poofy or whatever his name is.... is far more involved with the
commercial aspects of the industry
where he has becoame a rather bit of industry himself
it is difficult to understand him as art>
there are a million interesting and brilliant uses of sampling
everywhere
and there a two million boring
and almost obscene uses of sampling>

but you must decide for yourself what is what
and who is who.........


clay

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 21:02:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: Christopher Michael Bourke <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) Sampling

> > I HAVE to answer this one, As a fan of David Lynch's (The greatest
> > director in history) I must set this one straight.  Ever Since Lynch's
> > first film, Eraserhead He and Angelo Badalamenti have collaborated on both
> > sounds and score for Lynch's work.  The pilot movie and series only gives
> > credit to Badalamenti but I Like to Score gives credit to both Lynch and
> > Angelo.  Move did NOT inspire the score to Twin Peaks, rather TWIN
> > PEAKS(Laura Palmers Theme) was SAMPLED by Moby to use in Move.  Move was
> > inspired BY Twin Peaks not the other way around.  Moby is a great artist,
> > but please give credit where credit is due.
>
> I don't know who it was that said Laura Palmer's theme was inspired
> by Go!- but I never remember hearing that. And it is Go! we are talking
> about here- not 'Move'. As far as what I think of Moby sampling it,
> I think it's fine with me. It works quite well, and he gives credit
> where it is due because Moby is a humble man.
>
sorry, it was Go! that we were talking about, and as for those that
claimed the other way around, they didn't really clim it but they were
unsure and they thought htat the producer of Twin peaks COLLABORATED with
moby, this Lynch Did not do, Further, they did not  know the authors of
the Twin peaks score, So being a fan of Lynch and \Badalament6i I felt I
had to set the record straight, This is why I responded.

 > >
> > Ususally I HATE flagrant sampling (ie Puff Daddy "I'm unoriginal" Combs).
> > In this case though it is forgivable because the sample does not stand out
> > as obvjiously as Puffy's samlping.
> >
> > Who else here hates sampling?  Do you think it is okay and in what
> > circumstances?
>
> There is a big difference between using loops of sampled music
> and using samples in your music, I think sampling music to use
> in your own music is very un-original, but I love all other types
> of samples. Moby seems to be very fond of diva samples, but I would
> guess that he makes new samples in the studio, instead of ripping
> them off other releases. What would the Orb sound like without any
> samples? Not quite the same thing anymore- samples are fun when they
> are used in a different way than they origianlly were used for.
> But things like Vanilla Ice and MC Hammer, where the loop is actually
> the main melody of the song...they should be considered cover songs
> rather than originals, even with the new lyrics they really owe it
> all the the original song.
> paul
>

Amen Brother, samples that can obviously be identifed are not only cheezy
but unoriginal and I feel insulting to the original author, their music
was not good enough so the sampler feels he has to "improve" on it, which
is usually anything but an improvement.  Does anyone know the legality of
sampling?  Is the Secodnary artist required to just give credit or are
they required to pay royalties as well?

Puffy should get some talent, not only does his sampling and perpetual
producer status prove his unworthyiness in writing music, but I have seen
two live shows with him and "his family" and none of them can sing or hold
a note.  My sentiments were shared in a recent Spin review of one of his
concerts.  How can soeone with solittle talent maek so much money?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 22:54:26 -0500 (CDT)
From: "dan perry" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (mobility) Re: blue light of the underwater sun

"Dr. Killpatient" <[e-mail]> wrote:
> That voice at the beginning is this guy who has a whole series
> of tapes for hypnotism, astral projection, and lucid dreaming.
?  it sounds like moby to me.  isn't it moby?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 23:12:57 -0500
From: "Dennis Daniels" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) Sampling

      I don't hate the song, it's just that it got on my nerves at times.
The live version is what i'm talking about, seeing as how i've never heard
the original(?) Mixing two different songs is original, yes, but I don't
like Bon Jovi anyway, so it's criticism in a way. Belinda Carlisle is good,
though. I love Orbital, though.
     Off-subject, does anyone think Pink Floyd can be successfully remixed?
I got into a discussion with my partner-in-crime, and he says no, but i
disagree. Anyone care to comment?

    The Incredible, Edible d.

- ----------
>A good example of oversampling (IMHO) is Orbital's "Halcyon".

Really?  I love that song (IMHO as well).  I think it actually uses
sampling in a pretty creative way--I like the way they mix the two samples
together, etc.

I'm not necessarily an avid fan of songs that use sampling, but I don't
think they always bother me.  If someone is just ripping off a song and
does nothing but change the lyrics, then that's not that artistic.  But a
lot of songs use samples in pretty artistic ways that results in a great
new piece.  I don't think a song should be criticised /just because/ it
uses samples.  If it's a good song, it should be hailed as a good song.  I
agree though, that credit should definately be given to the source of the
sample as well.

------------------------------

End of mobility-digest V1 #175
******************************

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